[HN Gopher] SpawELO - small free matchmaking system for LAN parties
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SpawELO - small free matchmaking system for LAN parties
Author : Spawek
Score : 85 points
Date : 2024-11-02 10:44 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.spawek.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.spawek.com)
| digitalPhonix wrote:
| Has anyone tried something that isn't based on ELO/trueskill for
| team-based games?
|
| It feels to me like summing/averaging the ELO of a team to do
| matchmaking is:
|
| a) just a hack to fit a square peg (team based matchmaking) into
| a round hole (individual matchmaking)
|
| b) losing a lot of information about how intra-team dynamics
| would affect the result (as in player A and B play well together,
| better than their individual ELOs summed; but A and C play poorly
| together, worse than their individual ELOs summed)
| pacbard wrote:
| You could assign ELO at the group level. It will increase the
| number of possible groups by C(N, g) where N is the number of
| players and g is the group size. It could work if the groups
| are stable enough.
|
| If you have individual ELOs, you could pre-seed the ranking
| using averages and then let the algorithm take over.
| KaoruAoiShiho wrote:
| Sorry for pedantry but Elo is a guy's name, not an acronym.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| Agreed. ELO is a crude but simple statistical model, and its
| primary benefit is that it's easy to understand and reason
| about.
|
| I'd love for there to be a multidimensional player skill vector
| (aka "embedding") that encapsulates more information as well as
| a more nonlinear model to go on top of it.
|
| For example, in many games, a team usually needs a support
| player, but a single number isn't enough to capture that for
| the purposes of matchmaking.
| Spawek wrote:
| Author here: Elo is commonly used and most gamers understand
| it. It's nice to be able to show each player their Elo.
|
| I love the idea to use per-player embedding and to add a
| nonlinear model on top. I think it may improve the model
| dramatically, but I'm afraid that the model may be
| overfitting strongly as we have only 35 games in the
| historical for now. Anyway - I think I'll try this out.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| Yeah, 35 games is hard to work with. My rule of thumb is to
| not go above 1 parameter per 10 data points in order to
| prevent overfitting and memorization, so I'm not sure how
| well it will work in your case.
| dragontamer wrote:
| Yeah. Sports science is about evaluating individuals in a team
| and trying to come up with statistics that make team picking
| more reliable.
|
| Moneyball is a good movie that dramatizes the dawning of this
| science.
|
| Fantasy Football is a game version that's become popular for
| online gamblers.
|
| -------
|
| I've seen a paper or two floating around on the subject. But
| I've forgotten the names of them by now and I dunno any good
| references unfortunately.
|
| Hope you find something in your search!
| InvaderFizz wrote:
| Reminds me of a group of friends that played call of duty
| together in the CoD4/WaW days. Individually we were mid-tier
| players on average. As a group, we completely dominated. We all
| knew each other's strengths, weaknesses, and general tactics.
| There was often no need to communicate specifics because we
| knew where each other would be and what we were doing.
|
| We were always giddy when we got matched with a clan,
| especially if they were a mouthy crew.
| leni536 wrote:
| I would guess that in team sports/esports betting some people
| use more advanced models, but they obviously keep it secret.
| DigiEggz wrote:
| Excellent point about team dynamics. When trying to dynamically
| guess a group's Elo, it could be interesting to try and create
| a game-specific radar chart for each player and add those
| values instead.
| tonyhart7 wrote:
| its tried and tested by multiple online games used in
| dota,cs2,lol,val,cod etc
|
| it is not perfect but close enough that it didn't matter tbh, I
| mean multiple company do it for good reason
| Jach wrote:
| There are a bunch of GDC talks about matchmaking systems over
| the years too for those curious about things that have been
| done. For a successful game a lot of things have to be taken
| into account, not just skill.
| joaquincabezas wrote:
| what about trying with Shapley values?
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(page generated 2024-11-02 23:00 UTC)