[HN Gopher] How to Train Yourself to Go to Sleep Earlier
___________________________________________________________________
How to Train Yourself to Go to Sleep Earlier
Author : alecco
Score : 187 points
Date : 2024-11-01 13:49 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.sleepfoundation.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.sleepfoundation.org)
| dbsmith83 wrote:
| Similar to the journal idea, I keep a notebook by my bed where I
| can write down any thoughts or concerns I think of that needs
| attention the next day. This lets my mind relax so that I'm not
| worried about forgetting it or trying to solve it
| imzadi wrote:
| I wish I could train myself to sleep on my back. I've been trying
| for years, but I can't seem to fall asleep without the pressure
| of the pillow on my face.
| edflsafoiewq wrote:
| Me too. I can sort of "trick" myself by putting a balled-up
| blanket on my pillow and turning my face to rest against it.
| cassianoleal wrote:
| Legit question, what's the reason for wanting to sleep in what
| seems to be an uncomfortable position for you?
|
| I also can't sleep on my back but have no urge to change that.
| imzadi wrote:
| I have a lot of shoulder issues that are worsened by sleeping
| on my side or stomach. I also have a flat spot on the side of
| my face from always sleeping on it, and it gets worse the
| older I get. I'd like to be able to use overnight skin
| treatments without it getting all over my pillow.
| justinclift wrote:
| Wonder if making some kind of custom shaped bed (ie from
| memory foam) might be a useful solution?
| cassianoleal wrote:
| Fair enough. For what it's worth, I fixed shoulder problems
| with a combination of mattress, pillow and arm position
| thought the latter is less important.
|
| I don't have a flat face (yet?) though I can see how that
| could be annoying.
| donatzsky wrote:
| While I can sleep on my back, I feel like I get better rest
| when on my side. It's not about how the pillow feels or
| anything like that, but my whole body and brain just seem to
| relax more.
|
| Apparently [1] sleeping on the side is better for your health,
| as well.
|
| [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=O8UoAASCUsQ
| OptionOfT wrote:
| My SO used to sleep on her belly.
|
| Then we got an overpriced mattress with the same material that
| NASA uses...
|
| I'm an endless chaser of value. I hate to overpay for things.
| That mattress was $5k (king sized).
|
| She sleeps on her back, and her sleep quality has measurably
| improved.
| a_e_k wrote:
| I like to sleep on my back, but with a pillow over my forehead
| and eyes (i.e., nose and mouth exposed to fresh air).
| erik_seaberg wrote:
| One nice thing about sleep apnea treatment (CPAP) is that you
| always have fresh air.
| codr7 wrote:
| Sleeping on your back is worse for the spine and worse for
| breathing.
|
| I had to learn to sleep on the side after smashing a vertibrae
| in a climbing accident, no other position offloads the spine as
| effectively.
| jchw wrote:
| This feels completely stupid, but I noticed what seems like an
| unmistakable improvement in my sleep quality (more restful, less
| waking up too early) a few days after I adjusted my diet to
| include a lot more fiber intake. After googling it, it _seems_
| like it might be supported by studies, but I 'm always a bit
| skeptical. Either way, if you have trouble getting good sleep,
| it's another dietary consideration to make. Increased fiber
| intake seems like it mostly has upsides.
|
| (The other advice in the article is obviously also solid, but
| none of it, including changing caffeine habits, really ever
| seemed to do much for me. So I guess it will vary a lot from
| person to person.)
| RalfWausE wrote:
| Have a toddler.
|
| No, seriously: Since we have now a toddler running around who
| absolutely does not want to go to sleep when the adults are still
| running around has led US to much more healthy sleeping habbits
| n4r9 wrote:
| As a parent of a toddler who currently wakes up every 1-2
| hours, I'm not so sure this is the key to sleep hygiene!
| LUmBULtERA wrote:
| Right? As another parent of a toddler, neither I nor any
| other parent I know of toddlers are getting as much sleep as
| we'd like want...
| fragmede wrote:
| Yes they wake up in the middle of the night, but ideally you
| try and put them down to sleep and enforce a regular bedtime,
| which is prime sleep hygiene.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Hate to ask but did you ever try sleep training? We started
| it super early after about 6 months and the only times our
| daughter has issues is rare. She will sleep the entire night
| most nights.
| n4r9 wrote:
| Iirc 6 months is the recommended time to do it, as later on
| they've formed more attachments to parental figures.
|
| No, we haven't gone down that route ourselves. We did
| discuss it but decided against it. Partly because of how
| horrific it can be those first few nights, partly because
| we had friends who did it and had to redo it every time
| they hit a regression, and partly because of studies which
| suggest that the baby doesn't actually get more sleep, it
| just stops crying when it wakes up.
| iterateoften wrote:
| I am a firm believer in sleep hygiene especially the rule
| "reserve the bedroom for sleep".
|
| I have had conversations with friends when they complain about
| not enough sleep and one common theme is they use electronics in
| the bedroom before sleep.
|
| When I share similar recommendations as this article about not
| using tv or phone in the bed and to leave the bedroom and
| meditate if you can't sleep after 20min I get a lot of pushback.
|
| The most common is that they can't fall asleep without watching a
| show or movie on. This is right after they complained about not
| being able to sleep. The second one is around not wanting to
| change anything about their weed or alcohol use to improve their
| sleep.
|
| I think a lot of it has to do with trying to avoid other
| anxieties which makes their sleep worse which increases anxiety
| in a cycle.
|
| This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in
| people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene. And
| almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I'm a firm believer.
| resoluteteeth wrote:
| > This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in
| people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene.
| And almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I'm a firm
| believer.
|
| As someone who often has difficulty getting to sleep, I have
| tried every sleep hygiene thing I have seen suggested but none
| of it works for me, at least in terms of getting to sleep, and
| conversely I find actually find doing special things around
| sleep to be counterproductive since they make me more more
| stressed out about getting to sleep, so I have decided to
| simply not worry about them.
|
| I do think they may be helpful for people who either don't
| really have issues getting to sleep but simply tend to get
| absorbed watching tv or something and go to sleep to late or
| who can get to sleep easily but have sleep quality issues,
| though.
| grvdrm wrote:
| I am both for avoiding electronics but also enjoy TV in bed.
| Not necessary but it's not something that I restrain much.
|
| Haven't seen too many people suggest this: train yourself to
| wake up earlier. I wake up at 5. That's not a hustle culture
| thing. Just the time when I can fit in my personal time,
| fitness, and a bit of free thinking before my kids wake up and
| the day starts.
|
| I can barely keep my eyes open past 930.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > reluctant to experiment
|
| I stuck steadfast to "sleep hygiene" for most of my life,
| including zero electronics and my sleep stayed as horrid as
| it's been since I was a child. No caffeine/alcohol, bed only
| for sex and sleep, wind down periods, reading/not reading and
| the rest, all useless.
|
| One day I came to a realisation that the only time I never had
| issues falling asleep was ironically normally when attempting
| to ever watch TV on the couch during the day. For whatever
| reason whenever I try to watch TV, it always just makes me
| drowsy I realised. Despite this, I refused traditionally to
| have one in my bedroom.
|
| I decided to "experiment" and break my no electronics/TV in the
| room rule.
|
| A TV is now my personal sleep aid. Brightness goes to zero,
| volume goes to barely audible levels, and I deliberately tune
| into it. I'm guaranteed passed out in less than 15 minutes
| everytime and a timer turns it off at 30 minutes.
|
| Id almost describe it as life saving for me. Following damage
| to my spinal cord I was getting less sleep than ever due to now
| permanent pain and I've now largely developed a natural sleep
| pattern and I've been able to go off the strong drugs I was
| prescribed that whilst they knocked me out, always left me
| feeling shitty and groggy the next day.
|
| I wish I had not been a such an extreme stickler for "I must
| keep endlessly repeating what's recommended for sleep because
| obviously it must be accurate", because for me, it wasn't.
|
| The damage a lifetime of poor sleep has done to me and now
| knowing I could have solved it by ignoring the generally
| recommended advice is...depressing.
|
| Since doing this I've been able to turn huge chunks of my life
| around. It's been nothing short of life changing.
| NeoTar wrote:
| > ,,reserve the bedroom for sleep"
|
| That's unfortunately a luxury many people can't afford.
|
| I'm literally sitting in my in--laws apartment in Poland right
| now. About 40sqm total, and for forty years they've slept on a
| fold--out--sofa bed.
| nunez wrote:
| Bedtime routines increase sleep anxiety in some people.
| Consistency, i.e. the time you go to bed and the time that you
| wake up, is the most important factor.
| serguzest wrote:
| This writing is as unhelpful as telling an obese person simply to
| exercise and eat less. Everyone is different; I'm one of those
| people who were made to protect the tribe while they sleep. I'm
| naturally nocturnal, and the silence of the night makes me more
| alert. Turning on a not-so-interesting documentary or political
| commentary on YouTube actually helps me relax and fall asleep.
| enlyth wrote:
| Same, I'm nocturnal and a naturally anxious person. If I lie in
| bed doing nothing, I will just think about things that make me
| more anxious.
|
| A nice podcast or documentary will focus my thoughts on
| whatever I'm listening to and help me fall asleep easier.
| justinclift wrote:
| Ugh. Does that affect the other people around you?
|
| Asking because I live with a relative who has a similar
| problem (needs a tv on to fall asleep) and that noise
| directly stops me from falling asleep in the next room much
| of the time.
|
| It really sucks. :(
| enlyth wrote:
| I live alone so no :)
|
| If it was bothering other people around me I'd listen with
| my airpods.
|
| Interestingly, my parents who are in their 60s, have no
| problems getting to sleep early, and they both fall asleep
| together to TV all the time, mostly watching reruns of old
| shows like Columbo
| Angostura wrote:
| As said relative to do what I do. For the last 30 years
| I've fallen asleep with one earphone in my ear. I nod off
| quick, wife not disturbed.
| justinclift wrote:
| Unfortunately, the relative isn't receptive to requests
| nor negotiation. Oh well. :(
| qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
| I wonder how big the cohort of users that turn on mildly
| interesting content to fall asleep to is?
|
| How would a creator feel to find out most of their views are
| people falling asleep?
| zonkerdonker wrote:
| How it's Made does it for me. Based on a lot of the youtube
| comments, there are quite a lot of others as well!
| NeoTar wrote:
| An advertising supported YouTube creator would be delighted!
|
| No, literally a lot of creators target this market now -- for
| instance by making a mega mix of their existing content which
| runs for two to three hours. Or releasing a video ,,xxx hours
| of yyy to fall asleep to"
|
| It's the new ,meta', apparently a big part of the YouTube
| algorithm is watch time, and it doesn't know if the viewers
| are awake or not. Even if those viewers aren't being shown
| adverts, it means your other videos may get additional
| promotion. Plus if your viewers have YouTube premium I
| believe watch--time literally translates directly to payment
| rates.
| antisthenes wrote:
| For night owls, all these habits are temporary.
|
| I've done a stretch of 2 weeks to 2 months of being an early
| riser, but inevitably, like clockwork, the sleep schedule
| drifts back to me going to bed around 2 AM and waking up around
| 10AM.
|
| And yes, I've tried everything.
| beng-nl wrote:
| As a parent of a 5 and 3 year old, I can confirm. No matter
| how long I'm forced successfully into getting up early, I'm
| still more alert and focused and happy as soon as the sun
| sets, and given the opportunity I'll instantly slip back into
| sleeping at 1-2 am again.
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| My secret has just been consistently going to bed and getting
| up at the same time as my wife, who is not a night owl, every
| night. Some nights are frustrating and take me longer to fall
| asleep, most mornings I feel bit groggy, and I'm overall not
| thrilled with my experience with sleep, but I'm able to keep
| a consistent schedule without rubberbanding amounts of sleep,
| I'm rarely truly exhausted during the day, and my waking
| hours overlaps consistently with society and businesses.
|
| It's certainly an imperfect compromise, but it works well
| enough.
| ricksunny wrote:
| I've tried to chase down the literature on the genetic basis
| for DSPS. It's still a developing field, but there have been
| some compelling studies that are narrowing down gene loci for
| night-owls.
|
| 1. https://www.nature.com/articles/npp2009230 2.
| https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-015-3533-8
| 3. https://www.sjweh.fi/article/3299
| ricksunny wrote:
| I've tried to chase down the literature on the genetic basis
| for DSPS. It's still a developing field, but there have been
| some compelling studies that are narrowing down gene loci for
| night-owls.
|
| _Edit_ link:
| https://x.com/EMSKEPhyto/status/1774210043971305814
| serguzest wrote:
| It is funny that my comment was upvoted at night and downvoted
| in the morning by early birds. Dear early birds, your lifestyle
| is not canonical. Yes, our civilization was built by you guys,
| but it wouldn't have happened if we night owls had not
| protected you while you slept.
| mkl wrote:
| There are HN readers in almost every time zone, so it's not
| night owls and early birds. I think it's downvoted because
| it's a shallow dismissal.
| jibcage wrote:
| The article, for all of its other faults, also manages to breeze
| over another crucial point:
|
| "Research shows that blue light suppresses the body's production
| of melatonin, the sleep hormone. This can be helpful in the
| morning, when you want to wake up..."
|
| I find this to be a much easier habit to maintain, at least
| during summer: as close as possible after waking up, get as much
| light as you can, and at a regular time if possible. Sun lamps
| are an expensive but effective option during darker months, but
| they generally aren't covered by insurance.
|
| The first I heard of this was when I spoke to a sleep doctor, and
| it has worked much better for me than melatonin ever did.
| vasco wrote:
| Blue light effects on sleep have been utterly debunked as far
| as I know. If you google for blue light myth you'll find very
| convincing arguments that it was all bullshit.
| fifilura wrote:
| I did my military service (25 years ago). After that I rarely
| wait more than 3 minutes to fall asleep.
|
| Not many books get read that way unfortunately, I used to read a
| lot before that.
|
| These days I do wake up at weird hours though, not sure what to
| do when I wake 4AM.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| Sounds like a good opportunity to read
| fifilura wrote:
| Correct observation :) Or reply to relevant replies to my
| half baked comments on HN.
| jspash wrote:
| Could you elaborate? Was it from total exhaustion? Were you
| taught a special technique to help you sleep? Or was it from
| knowing you MUST get your rest or you'll suffer the entire next
| day?
| fifilura wrote:
| Right! Should have been in my comment.
|
| I think an important part of it is that is made me stop
| worrying. Sleep will come to me eventually and meanwhile my
| body will continue working. Maybe my brain does not work
| optimally, but well enough.
|
| Sleep is my friend.
|
| (I was not anything like a navy seal but a commander of ~25
| soldiers).
| theonething wrote:
| So being in the military made you stop worrying? How did it
| do that?
| codr7 wrote:
| By pushing your limits.
| fifilura wrote:
| Probably. Military service in Sweden in the 90s did not
| mean you had to worry about going to Iraq or Afghanistan.
|
| As I mentioned I was also a platoon leader so I guess I
| had som more freedom.
|
| But some weeks we had to go on without much sleep. (And
| you are constantly freezing).
|
| Another thing I learned involuntarily was being a
| timekeeper. There is always a clock counting towards the
| next event in my head.
| powersnail wrote:
| I know that this might sound too obvious to say. But I've found
| that, it is much easier to maintain good sleep habits when real
| life is not stressful. If I'm facing a big problem in life, an
| important deadline for example, it is unlikely that any effort I
| put into sleeping habits is going to help. Sometimes, I just stay
| up as late, but instead of working, time is spent in blaming
| myself for not sleeping in time, and worrying about getting up
| tomorrow.
|
| The reason I think this is worth saying, is that sometimes, to
| break the vicious cycle of [stress -> sleep-deprivation -> more
| stress -> ...], you need to shift the focus to tackle the real
| life problem first, and don't beat yourself up for not being a
| good sleeper. Trying and failing to develop sleep hygiene can
| pile on the frustration and worsen the vicious cycle.
| m463 wrote:
| Like in the article, reading in bed helps me. I read something
| I can get into, get caught up in. Then I can relax, and am
| likely to let sleep get me.
|
| Doesn't always work, enough anxiety and you can't immerse
| yourself.
| wkjagt wrote:
| Reading in bed totally does it for me. Most of the time a
| novel or something. I can do three pages at most before
| everything becomes blurry and I struggle to stay awake and
| make it to the end of the page.
| m463 wrote:
| you can reuse those three pages the next night... :)
| adriand wrote:
| This is certainly true, although many of us have to deal with
| problems and projects large enough and time-consuming enough
| that if they prevented us from sleeping properly, we'd never
| sleep properly. It takes practice, essentially. Experimenting
| with various approaches until one finds methods that work.
|
| For the particular issue you described, one approach is to
| journal before bedtime. Write out what is worrying you about
| the project, its deadline, etc. Put on paper the thoughts that
| are swirling through your head. Once captured in that manner,
| they may leave your brain alone for a few hours. It also helps
| to be organized, so you can reassure yourself that you have a
| plan.
|
| Then there is the dreaded 3 or 4 am wake up, where all the
| thoughts can come rushing back in, preventing sleep for the
| next hour or perhaps even for the rest of the night. I have
| found that body scan meditation is helpful at these times.
|
| I am not always successful, and these methods won't work for
| everyone. The key is, like I said before, experimenting to find
| methods that work, and practicing the ones that show promise.
| nradov wrote:
| Journaling. Ugh. You're not wrong and I don't doubt that it
| helps, but to most of us it just seems like _more work_.
| galleywest200 wrote:
| This is one reason why I write a short poem for my
| journaling. Maybe just four lines, does not matter if it
| rhymes. Poems are for fun, not work. Unless you are a poet,
| I suppose.
| bamboozled wrote:
| I went on a surf holiday to Indonesia, I was asleep by 9pm
| every night after day 3. Als spent time in various deserts, I'm
| so far away from my problems there I was in bed asleep by 8pm
| and up at 4:30am, with plenty of energy.
| dinosaurdynasty wrote:
| When I quit work because of burnout some years ago, at some
| point I just started going to bed every night at like 9pm with
| no effort whatsoever, really.
|
| Completely broke when I started a job again and has been
| difficult ever after.
| NGRhodes wrote:
| I'm surprised the article did not mention speaking to a doctor
| about the possibility of underlying medical conditions
| (physical/mental health/neurological), if all suggestions fail.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| I'm not.
|
| I have "good" insurance in the States and I still had to pay
| $700 out of pocket for a sleep study and another $750 to _rent_
| a CPAP that my insurance company demanded nightly uploaded logs
| from.
| bdangubic wrote:
| exactly... speaking to a doctor eliminates 97.34% of all
| readers
| Schiendelman wrote:
| That is not good insurance.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| It's good by the standards of the US - low deductible,
| broad prescription coverage, no need to get a referral to
| see a specialist, and low/no copay for normal doctor
| visits.
| throw24111 wrote:
| I regularly go to sleep at around 6 am, when the sun starts
| coming up, and wake up at around 2 / 3 pm. It doesn't matter
| where I am, or the time of the year. That's my natural bed time.
| baw-bag wrote:
| That is unfortunate. Mine is 2am and it has been that way for 3
| decades. It is a pain in the ass because I only sleep well at
| the weekend but then my mornings are gone and family give no
| end of grief about being lazy.
|
| 6am is a whole new ball game. Not sure how I could deal with
| that.
| ricksunny wrote:
| I appreciate that a lot. I'm generally sleeping 4:30am-12:30pm.
| Recent travel puts me at 10:30pm-6:30am which I'm trying to
| artificially maintain for a month. I'm sorry that you felt you
| had to create a throwaway account to post what you did, it's
| telling about the prejudices that circadian-divergent people
| (my term, mostly called DSPS) face in society. (e.g. parallel
| response talking about being called lazy by family). I try hard
| to locate myself in places (time zones) where I can exploit
| 'circadian arbitrage'. Remote work is the big enabler, and I
| consciously work to help folks maintain & expand the remote
| work ecosystem's momentum.
| em-bee wrote:
| the funny thing is that because of such sleep times i never
| had a problem with jetlag. if i am forced to get up early and
| work all day then i can also get to sleep earlier. the issue
| though is that since i have kids, i only get time for myself,
| eg to watch tv or a movie after the rest of the family is
| asleep, thus pushing my bedtime again back late into the
| night. i haven't found a way to solve that without completely
| giving up watching tv. (and i don't watch much to begin with.
| 1-2 hours per day)
| thirdacc wrote:
| What do you do for a living? That's my natural schedule too.
| Flexible dev jobs are not as common as I was led to believe,
| and this has affected my life deeply.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| That sounds like Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder [1]. There is a
| subreddit on it with some sad stories of people having to give
| up good careers to work as security guards because society
| can't find a role for them.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
| lotophage wrote:
| I didn't know that "revenge bedtime procrastination" was a term
| but it definitely describes me.
|
| I have to set an alarm for bedtime, but I still struggle with
| being disciplined about it.
| lazyeye wrote:
| One thing I've done is create a "color clock" using a smart
| bulb that changes color based on a daily schedule. So at 8:00pm
| the bulb has a dim orange glow, this changes to dim red glow at
| 9pm and then turns off at 10pm (sleep time). Its a really nice
| relaxing way of ensuring a regular sleep pattern (no longer
| clock watching etc).
| edem wrote:
| how did you make it?
| lotophage wrote:
| That's a great idea! I'm kicking myself for not thinking of
| it because I did the opposite for my toddler to let him know
| when it was okay to get up in the morning (otherwise he'd be
| up before 5am). I had a dim red as a whole room nightlight
| that transitioned to dim yellow-green to signal that is was
| now okay to get up.
| jerrygoyal wrote:
| Here's a method that worked for me and i am able to consistently
| fall asleep within 15 minutes or less:
|
| Direct your attention to sleep. Whenever you go to bed and notice
| yourself actively thinking about something just direct that
| attention back to sleep. Think about it, it's the attention that
| keeps you awake. Note that 'actively thinking' is different than
| mind-wandering which is passive and actually helps in falling
| asleep. This will be difficult initially but you will get better
| over time at controlling attention. This is because attention is
| like a muscle so you need to train over time.
|
| I have been doing this for months and it works.
| dqv wrote:
| I think for a lot of us that directs us to actively think about
| sleep instead of actually directing our attention toward sleep.
|
| My strategy is to try to jumpstart the memory reconciliation
| process, which is kind of a passive way of directing my
| attention toward sleep. It basically just recounting the day
| from the beginning when I woke up and tracing back to the
| current moment. It does cause my mind to wander and sometimes
| be too active, but if I notice that, I will just start restart
| the recounting process. I think this might also be what makes
| journaling so useful - memory and thought reconciliation.
| blendo wrote:
| I used to try and stare at the _inside_ of my eyelids, as if
| looking at a TV screen. It seemed like once images started to
| appear, while my eyes were closed, my brain began to think it
| was dreaming and just gave up on being awake :-)
| JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
| This is exactly what I do and it seems to be the most
| effective method I have found. It helps to get me out of
| whatever rumination I am having and into a more mindful
| state.
| lesostep wrote:
| Hallucinationes hypnopompicae. I've had them too, and they do
| help falling asleep. I've had them for years, and then I got
| treated for anixiety and changed jobs, and - poof! - they
| were gone. Now I only experience them if I'm very tired or
| stressed. I had two friends that also saw them, but they only
| saw them when they were very-very stressed and didn't get
| enough sleep. I don't know if they are always a sign of
| stress, or if some people do see them naturally. My friend
| group is certainly screwed towards "it's a stress thing"
| category.
| WildGreenLeave wrote:
| My personal tip is to slow your breathing, slow it down enough
| that you breath too slow and feel a bit deprived from oxygen.
| Then slowly breath faster but try to keep it as low as
| possible.
|
| I think (but I am not an expert in this) it slows down the
| heart and with that, allows you to fall asleep easier.
| avtar wrote:
| > slow it down enough that you breath too slow and feel a bit
| deprived from oxygen
|
| A resource that I've been using lately that has some details
| regarding this particular part of the breathing process:
| https://midlmeditation.com/meditation-for-anxiety
| nradov wrote:
| You probably can't really "feel" oxygen deprivation from that
| breath work. More likely you're feeling hypercapnia.
| pnutjam wrote:
| Whenever I have trouble sleeping, I like to imagine myself
| floating in the air with clouds underneath and I slowly drift
| into the clouds. Just keeping this in my head crowds out the
| other stuff and I drift off pretty consistently.
| amanbolat_com wrote:
| I just go to GitHub and read random project's code, it makes me
| sleepy in 5 mins.
| presspot wrote:
| I just go to HN and read the comments.
| plg wrote:
| get up earlier
|
| seriously though after I started getting up every single day
| without fail at 6:00 am, no matter what happened the day before,
| no matter what's on my schedule today, ever since I have had no
| trouble whatsoever ever falling asleep. Usually by 9:30 pm I am
| feeling v sleepy and by 10 pm I cannot help but lie down and
| close my eyes.
|
| The only thing that modulates this is caffeine. No caffeine after
| 2:00 pm otherwise I may be up until 11:00 pm even midnight.
|
| but even then, wake at 6:00 am the next day without fail, that
| was the magic bullet for me
|
| all this stuff about bedtime routines, warm bath, soft lighting,
| etc, seems funny to me - like I said by 9:30 pm and certainly by
| 10:00 pm I cannot help but lie down and close my eyes, I don't
| need any enticements.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| Well, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier.
| WildGreenLeave wrote:
| You don't _have_ to, I think previous commenter means that
| after a few days of feeling tired and groggy you will be
| tired earlier in the evening and go to bed earlier.
| BoiledCabbage wrote:
| > Well, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier.
|
| Why?
| znpy wrote:
| Because if you don't you're going to regret it. Been there,
| done that, it's torture. Quite literally, sleep deprivation
| is a form of torture.
|
| Waking up super early without having a decent amount of
| time is just another form if self harm.
| exe34 wrote:
| i think the idea isn't to sleep late and wake up early
| consistently. instead it's about waking up at the exact
| same time everyday, no matter how late you went to bed
| the previous night for reasons inside/outside your
| control. the expectation is that the next night you'll
| feel sleepy earlier and catch up.
|
| in contrast, walking up late one day because you slept
| late the previous night will wreak havoc.
|
| I'm only trying to clarify this because it works the same
| way for me.
| m_a_g wrote:
| Adjusting in increments truly helps. If you usually sleep 8
| hours, try waking half an hour early for a few days. It won't
| cause sleep deprivation, but you'll feel the need to go to
| bed early.
| bradfa wrote:
| Get up earlier but at a consistent time each day. Add in some
| daily exercise and that's what has done the trick for me.
| Unai wrote:
| I don't think "early" really matters, but consistency has
| been the key for me.
|
| I used to set an alarm every night in bed for 7-8 hours
| later, relative to whatever random time I was getting in bed.
| For years the only advice I ever heard in terms of sleep
| quality was "getting a good 7-8 hours", so this led to years
| of awful sleep.
|
| Now, I set an alarm _once_ and don 't ever touch it again. It
| goes off every day of the week, weekends and all, everyday at
| the same time. And it's been one of the biggest and most
| directly noticeable changes I've ever done for my routine and
| wellbeing. Sure, sometimes I go to bed late and I don't get
| my 7-8 hours, but for the first time since I was a kid I feel
| sleepy at night and it doesn't take 1+ hours in bed to fall
| asleep.
|
| If anyone reading is in the same situation I was, please try
| it. Even of you usually wake up late, even at noon or later,
| just wake up at the same "late" hour everyday. "Early"
| doesn't matter. But after a while you can make small 15-30
| minute changes in the wake-up time every month to two months
| or so, if you wanna start waking up earlier. If you still
| have trouble falling asleep, even some light exercise like a
| light walk around the block, helps a lot, particularly if you
| spent the day sitting.
|
| Maybe this is super obvious for most people, but it wasn't
| for me, so it might be helpful for someone else.
| bamboozled wrote:
| Getting up earlier is a stress reliever as I have more time in
| the day to accomplish tasks, therefore I sleep knowing things
| are ok.
|
| If I get up even an hour later than 5:30am, the stress builds
| as things fall behind schedule.
| EasyMark wrote:
| I generally go to bet by 12 and get up at 6, generally, I think
| it's the set schedule, not necessarily getting up at an exact
| time no matter what. However, I'll bring up not everyone is the
| same, so people have to experiment, but not give up too early,
| at least a month and keeping honest notes on it, rather than
| relying on very fallible human memory. Excel is great for this
| amongst other things.
| voxl wrote:
| It would only seem funny to you if you ignore the most
| fundamentally important fact of humanity: Humans have much more
| variance than normality. Even if half the population can get by
| with what you're saying, there is a full other half filling out
| a wide variance.
| wkjagt wrote:
| For me it's, in no particular order:
|
| - Shower before bed. Going to bed clean feels so much better. -
| No programming just before sleep - A cold-ish bedroom - Read
| before sleep (a novel, not HN). - As little light as possible in
| the bedroom
| robg wrote:
| Neuroscientist here, been teaching my kids since they were really
| little to power down: lights off, slower and slower breathing,
| time to say goodnight to our adventures and thoughts as we'll
| have more tomorrow. They are consistently asleep by 7-ish.
|
| Curious if anyone here was taught how to fall asleep by their
| parents or school? We teach our kids so much, but we don't seem
| to teach the importance of sleep as well as we teach the
| importance of brushing your teeth or nutrition.
| Brajeshwar wrote:
| I'm just an average person here, but I teach my kids to have a
| wind-down routine that is very similar to my own--making a
| quick plan for tomorrow, reading something, being bored, or
| starting lying down in bed, telling/listening to stories.
| Definitely no devices or anything that has an LED light or
| produces sounds in the bedroom. If you have a work/study
| laptop/computer in the bedroom, start winding down and let it
| sleep.
| HellDunkel wrote:
| I taught both of my kids. Dark room, by themselves, door left
| open a gap so they could hear us talk. Only stayed with them a
| few minutes to calm down before i left the room if they had
| falled asleep by then or not. This was just how i felt it had
| to be done and even though my wife had doubts it worked out
| extremly well. Or maybe i was just lucky.
| nradov wrote:
| I'm not saying any of that is _wrong_ but is it really
| necessary? My kids are older but they 've been in competitive
| travel club sports for years and most days they're tired enough
| in the evening that falling asleep is no problem. We don't
| bother with anything about lights or controlled breathing or
| whatever.
| timacles wrote:
| Yeah all of these modern "hacks" for sleep can be trumped
| with just being an active person who gets up at a reasonable
| time, child or adult.
|
| Something I observed while spending time in India with my
| wife's families is how no one follows any sleep schedule.
| Everyone from babies, to toddlers, kids, and adults are just
| really busy all day with various chores (the younger ones
| with just play of course). Once night rolls around, people
| just start falling asleep, anywhere they are, even in a
| crowded room with the lights on and people chatting, and
| sleep like a rock until the morning. Then you do it all again
| the next day. Theres also no "sleeping in." By 7:30-8 AM
| everyone is up and busy with something
|
| I think the idleness of modern culture has created a lot of
| the "insomnia" we hear about, which is just a mind that seeks
| some sort of stimulation at night after being disengaged all
| day.
| robg wrote:
| Are they getting enough sleep? If they need an alarm clock,
| they aren't. I was surprised that less than 20% of 12th
| graders in our large metro county report getting 8 hours on
| school nights. The AAP recommendation is 8-10 hours a night
| for ages 13-18, that's just flights less than the 9-12 hours
| for ages 6 to 12. Deep sleep can be enough to survive but
| it's not enough to thrive (for most people).
| nradov wrote:
| Probably occasionally sleep deprived. If you have a
| tournament today and a school project due tomorrow then
| sometimes you have to sacrifice a little sleep. It's not
| ideal but it's part of learning time management and how to
| operate as an adult in the real world. There are always
| trade-offs.
| 2Gkashmiri wrote:
| Growing up I had developed a habit of keeping my fingers in my
| ears to shut out noise in order to sleep. And side sleepping.
|
| Then growing up, I observed my brain was in overdrive. This was
| circa 2010 and I would spend 7-9 hours online everyday.
|
| I would conjure up things to discuss in my brain and that would
| consume good chunk of my sleep time and render me tired in
| mornings.
|
| So, I set out to do the impossible.
|
| I trained myself to shut off my mind. Not think, not to
| imagine, not to go off on a tangent and build imaginary
| stories.
|
| That helped a lot.
|
| I am able to fall asleep in 20-30 seconds now thanks to this.
|
| Also, about 7-8 years ago I started listening to audiobooks
| (thanks MaM) and I found a nice quirk. I am able to follow a
| story (if I want to) as long as I can actively listen every
| word. If I start skupping, I will fall asleep.
|
| I found the 20-30 seconds time after recording a start time for
| a boring book, then listening to the book and trying to fall
| asleep and next day see how much I can remember. If I do, means
| I was awake. That gave me an average 20-30 seconds for really
| boring stuff.
|
| Same for when I am not listening to audiobooks. That time I
| have to be extra careful and not think.
| benbojangles wrote:
| Generic article, which does nothing to address biological,
| environmental, and many many other factors.
| kodt wrote:
| Having young children is conveniently not mentioned.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| I used to stay up until around 1am every night. I found it very
| easy to fix this - I now go to the gym at 5:30am. Within a couple
| of weeks I found it very easy to go to sleep at 10pm or earlier.
| It's more than just getting up early - you're telling your body
| you need it to be ready to perform early in the morning. Just
| like a muscle grows when you demand more of it, I think this sets
| off an adaptive reaction that results in earlier and easier
| sleep.
| Etheryte wrote:
| Okay, but now you're going to the gym at 5:30 in the morning.
| For everyone who isn't an early bird, that's literal torture.
| In other words, it's nice if that works for you, but this is
| not really generalizable.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I was a big time night owl before we had kids. Now, I get up
| without an alarm around 5-5:30 most days and am able to fall
| asleep around 10.
|
| I don't mind the change at all and don't think it's
| impossible for most people to habituate themselves to a
| different schedule.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| Going to the gym at 5:30am is torture for everyone. I'm not
| some weirdo who enjoys getting out of my warm bed and going
| out into the cold and dark to pick up weights. I do it
| precisely because it's hard. The workout that happens in the
| gym is great, but the real workout happens in my head every
| time I have to tell myself to get up and go.
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| I'm not an early bird. I work out with a group at start times
| between 4:45 and 5:45 AM five days a week. Most of the other
| people I work out with are also not early birds. We workout
| early in the morning because that is the only time of day
| where we don't have other demands on our time.
|
| Nobody is being tortured (literally or figuratively) and it
| is highly generalizable.
| nradov wrote:
| Meh. Anyone can get used to it after a while. A little
| torture is good for you.
| dakiol wrote:
| I go to sleep at 1am. I wake up at 9:45am. Is there something
| wrong with this?
|
| I have my daily standup at 10:30, so I have enough time to
| drink water, and do morning rituals before I start to work.
| Feels good. I don't know what would be the advantage of going
| to sleep at 10pm and waking up at 6:45.
| a1vd wrote:
| That's approximately 4 hours of work per day (excluding the
| 'whatever comes' time). For most businesses, availability
| during standard office hours might be too limited with this
| schedule.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| I would say there's nothing wrong with it if it keeps you
| happy and healthy. For me, getting out of bed at 10:30am
| would feel like I'm leaving a lot on the table. I like to be
| productive with as many daylight hours as possible. It's
| personal preference. If I were retired and looking to relax a
| bit more, I might adopt a bit later schedule.
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| Always at 5am whether I like it or not. I'd love to be able to
| hit the gym then, but my morning poop is a mandatory piece of
| my wellbeing routine, but that requires me to eat breakfast to
| get the works going. I can't lift with a full belly and my high
| protein diet means that proper digestion is a 2+ hour affair.
|
| I have always been curious how people manage this to workout so
| early. Do you skip pooping? That would wreak havok on my
| workday.
| philippta wrote:
| But I don't want my free time to end.
| twoodfin wrote:
| FWIW, "sleepfoundation.org" is owned by Sleep Doctor, and is
| essentially a sales funnel to sell CPAP machines and other sleep-
| related therapy.
|
| Nothing wrong with that, but it's at least a little shady to
| present themselves this way.
|
| _A Sleep Doctor brand, SleepFoundation.org was acquired from the
| National Sleep Foundation in 2019 and is no longer affiliated
| with the non-profit organization. The National Sleep Foundation
| is an independent, 501(c)(3) based in Washington, D.C._
| morjom wrote:
| New website for the NSF is thensf.org for those wondering.
| mock-possum wrote:
| Aw I was expecting the Nintendo sound format :(
| pedalpete wrote:
| I've been in the sleep industry for almost 5 years, and I never
| knew this. Wow!! Thanks for opening my eyes. I assumed it was
| some publicly funded body.
| counternotions wrote:
| Huh, how did a mattress review website stuffed with affiliate
| links make it on HN?
| scotty79 wrote:
| 1. abstain from coffee and tea for 3 weeks
|
| 2. wake up at desired hour using alarm clock and drink one coffee
|
| 3. don't fall asleep before your desired hour of going to bed
|
| 4. rince an repeat until the alarm clock is no longer needed
|
| 5. Never drink coffee or tea again unless it's just one after
| waking up timely (not late)
| jakupovic wrote:
| This is my hack and your millage* may vary. Lately I close my
| eyes and scan via eyeballs for a light point and focus on it as
| much as I can, not sure how others perceive this. Obviously with
| eyes closed you cannot see anything so maybe I imagine this
| point, but in any case it makes me fall asleep instantly.
| Hopefully that makes sense ...
| senectus1 wrote:
| since i started working bakers hours at about age 16 I have had
| to force myself to sleep on demand.
|
| many decades later (now I'm a white collar 9-5er) I can still do
| it.
|
| It realy is just a matter of self control. (for me at least)
| pier25 wrote:
| A couple of years ago I realized sleep is really one of the most
| important factors for my overall wellbeing.
|
| I have an alarm on my phone at 10pm which signals the end of any
| activity other than reading with my Kindle in bed. It has worked
| wonders. The first couple of weeks I took 1mg of melatonin which
| helped my body reset the clock.
|
| I fall asleep around 11pm every day and wake up without alarms
| around 7am. I work at home on my own projects so I don't need a
| fixed schedule but my body is very happy with this.
| penguin_booze wrote:
| It's not a strict routine, but I sometimes listen to fairy tales
| from Myths And Legends [0] podcast and put myself to sleep. And
| I'm supposedly a grown ass adult. #noshame
|
| [0] https://www.mythpodcast.com/
| seadan83 wrote:
| Surprised bright morning late not mentioned. Camping usually
| resets circadian rhythm in as little as 3 days. Bright sun in the
| morning gets a person up with the birds, no lights at night puts
| a person to sleep.
|
| Artificially, similar can be done: turn on all lights when you
| get up. After sunset, use minimal light, with as much red hue as
| possible.
|
| The other points I think hold pretty well and also are important:
| get exercise, avoid caffeine later in the day, etc..
| EasyMark wrote:
| The most important thing for me was to lay down at the same time
| no matter what, even if I rolled around for 2 hours. Also no
| stimulants of any sort after 6pm. I stick to the Schedule though,
| even if it has pissed off some of my friends. If they want me to
| alleviate it they get me on Friday night, or nothing. I think you
| have to have a "day off" day for just about everything whether
| it's exercise or a diet.
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