[HN Gopher] How to Train Yourself to Go to Sleep Earlier
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How to Train Yourself to Go to Sleep Earlier
        
       Author : alecco
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2024-11-01 13:49 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sleepfoundation.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sleepfoundation.org)
        
       | dbsmith83 wrote:
       | Similar to the journal idea, I keep a notebook by my bed where I
       | can write down any thoughts or concerns I think of that needs
       | attention the next day. This lets my mind relax so that I'm not
       | worried about forgetting it or trying to solve it
        
       | imzadi wrote:
       | I wish I could train myself to sleep on my back. I've been trying
       | for years, but I can't seem to fall asleep without the pressure
       | of the pillow on my face.
        
         | edflsafoiewq wrote:
         | Me too. I can sort of "trick" myself by putting a balled-up
         | blanket on my pillow and turning my face to rest against it.
        
         | cassianoleal wrote:
         | Legit question, what's the reason for wanting to sleep in what
         | seems to be an uncomfortable position for you?
         | 
         | I also can't sleep on my back but have no urge to change that.
        
           | imzadi wrote:
           | I have a lot of shoulder issues that are worsened by sleeping
           | on my side or stomach. I also have a flat spot on the side of
           | my face from always sleeping on it, and it gets worse the
           | older I get. I'd like to be able to use overnight skin
           | treatments without it getting all over my pillow.
        
             | justinclift wrote:
             | Wonder if making some kind of custom shaped bed (ie from
             | memory foam) might be a useful solution?
        
             | cassianoleal wrote:
             | Fair enough. For what it's worth, I fixed shoulder problems
             | with a combination of mattress, pillow and arm position
             | thought the latter is less important.
             | 
             | I don't have a flat face (yet?) though I can see how that
             | could be annoying.
        
         | donatzsky wrote:
         | While I can sleep on my back, I feel like I get better rest
         | when on my side. It's not about how the pillow feels or
         | anything like that, but my whole body and brain just seem to
         | relax more.
         | 
         | Apparently [1] sleeping on the side is better for your health,
         | as well.
         | 
         | [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=O8UoAASCUsQ
        
         | OptionOfT wrote:
         | My SO used to sleep on her belly.
         | 
         | Then we got an overpriced mattress with the same material that
         | NASA uses...
         | 
         | I'm an endless chaser of value. I hate to overpay for things.
         | That mattress was $5k (king sized).
         | 
         | She sleeps on her back, and her sleep quality has measurably
         | improved.
        
         | a_e_k wrote:
         | I like to sleep on my back, but with a pillow over my forehead
         | and eyes (i.e., nose and mouth exposed to fresh air).
        
           | erik_seaberg wrote:
           | One nice thing about sleep apnea treatment (CPAP) is that you
           | always have fresh air.
        
         | codr7 wrote:
         | Sleeping on your back is worse for the spine and worse for
         | breathing.
         | 
         | I had to learn to sleep on the side after smashing a vertibrae
         | in a climbing accident, no other position offloads the spine as
         | effectively.
        
       | jchw wrote:
       | This feels completely stupid, but I noticed what seems like an
       | unmistakable improvement in my sleep quality (more restful, less
       | waking up too early) a few days after I adjusted my diet to
       | include a lot more fiber intake. After googling it, it _seems_
       | like it might be supported by studies, but I 'm always a bit
       | skeptical. Either way, if you have trouble getting good sleep,
       | it's another dietary consideration to make. Increased fiber
       | intake seems like it mostly has upsides.
       | 
       | (The other advice in the article is obviously also solid, but
       | none of it, including changing caffeine habits, really ever
       | seemed to do much for me. So I guess it will vary a lot from
       | person to person.)
        
       | RalfWausE wrote:
       | Have a toddler.
       | 
       | No, seriously: Since we have now a toddler running around who
       | absolutely does not want to go to sleep when the adults are still
       | running around has led US to much more healthy sleeping habbits
        
         | n4r9 wrote:
         | As a parent of a toddler who currently wakes up every 1-2
         | hours, I'm not so sure this is the key to sleep hygiene!
        
           | LUmBULtERA wrote:
           | Right? As another parent of a toddler, neither I nor any
           | other parent I know of toddlers are getting as much sleep as
           | we'd like want...
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | Yes they wake up in the middle of the night, but ideally you
           | try and put them down to sleep and enforce a regular bedtime,
           | which is prime sleep hygiene.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | Hate to ask but did you ever try sleep training? We started
           | it super early after about 6 months and the only times our
           | daughter has issues is rare. She will sleep the entire night
           | most nights.
        
             | n4r9 wrote:
             | Iirc 6 months is the recommended time to do it, as later on
             | they've formed more attachments to parental figures.
             | 
             | No, we haven't gone down that route ourselves. We did
             | discuss it but decided against it. Partly because of how
             | horrific it can be those first few nights, partly because
             | we had friends who did it and had to redo it every time
             | they hit a regression, and partly because of studies which
             | suggest that the baby doesn't actually get more sleep, it
             | just stops crying when it wakes up.
        
       | iterateoften wrote:
       | I am a firm believer in sleep hygiene especially the rule
       | "reserve the bedroom for sleep".
       | 
       | I have had conversations with friends when they complain about
       | not enough sleep and one common theme is they use electronics in
       | the bedroom before sleep.
       | 
       | When I share similar recommendations as this article about not
       | using tv or phone in the bed and to leave the bedroom and
       | meditate if you can't sleep after 20min I get a lot of pushback.
       | 
       | The most common is that they can't fall asleep without watching a
       | show or movie on. This is right after they complained about not
       | being able to sleep. The second one is around not wanting to
       | change anything about their weed or alcohol use to improve their
       | sleep.
       | 
       | I think a lot of it has to do with trying to avoid other
       | anxieties which makes their sleep worse which increases anxiety
       | in a cycle.
       | 
       | This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in
       | people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene. And
       | almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I'm a firm believer.
        
         | resoluteteeth wrote:
         | > This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in
         | people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene.
         | And almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I'm a firm
         | believer.
         | 
         | As someone who often has difficulty getting to sleep, I have
         | tried every sleep hygiene thing I have seen suggested but none
         | of it works for me, at least in terms of getting to sleep, and
         | conversely I find actually find doing special things around
         | sleep to be counterproductive since they make me more more
         | stressed out about getting to sleep, so I have decided to
         | simply not worry about them.
         | 
         | I do think they may be helpful for people who either don't
         | really have issues getting to sleep but simply tend to get
         | absorbed watching tv or something and go to sleep to late or
         | who can get to sleep easily but have sleep quality issues,
         | though.
        
         | grvdrm wrote:
         | I am both for avoiding electronics but also enjoy TV in bed.
         | Not necessary but it's not something that I restrain much.
         | 
         | Haven't seen too many people suggest this: train yourself to
         | wake up earlier. I wake up at 5. That's not a hustle culture
         | thing. Just the time when I can fit in my personal time,
         | fitness, and a bit of free thinking before my kids wake up and
         | the day starts.
         | 
         | I can barely keep my eyes open past 930.
        
         | theshackleford wrote:
         | > reluctant to experiment
         | 
         | I stuck steadfast to "sleep hygiene" for most of my life,
         | including zero electronics and my sleep stayed as horrid as
         | it's been since I was a child. No caffeine/alcohol, bed only
         | for sex and sleep, wind down periods, reading/not reading and
         | the rest, all useless.
         | 
         | One day I came to a realisation that the only time I never had
         | issues falling asleep was ironically normally when attempting
         | to ever watch TV on the couch during the day. For whatever
         | reason whenever I try to watch TV, it always just makes me
         | drowsy I realised. Despite this, I refused traditionally to
         | have one in my bedroom.
         | 
         | I decided to "experiment" and break my no electronics/TV in the
         | room rule.
         | 
         | A TV is now my personal sleep aid. Brightness goes to zero,
         | volume goes to barely audible levels, and I deliberately tune
         | into it. I'm guaranteed passed out in less than 15 minutes
         | everytime and a timer turns it off at 30 minutes.
         | 
         | Id almost describe it as life saving for me. Following damage
         | to my spinal cord I was getting less sleep than ever due to now
         | permanent pain and I've now largely developed a natural sleep
         | pattern and I've been able to go off the strong drugs I was
         | prescribed that whilst they knocked me out, always left me
         | feeling shitty and groggy the next day.
         | 
         | I wish I had not been a such an extreme stickler for "I must
         | keep endlessly repeating what's recommended for sleep because
         | obviously it must be accurate", because for me, it wasn't.
         | 
         | The damage a lifetime of poor sleep has done to me and now
         | knowing I could have solved it by ignoring the generally
         | recommended advice is...depressing.
         | 
         | Since doing this I've been able to turn huge chunks of my life
         | around. It's been nothing short of life changing.
        
         | NeoTar wrote:
         | > ,,reserve the bedroom for sleep"
         | 
         | That's unfortunately a luxury many people can't afford.
         | 
         | I'm literally sitting in my in--laws apartment in Poland right
         | now. About 40sqm total, and for forty years they've slept on a
         | fold--out--sofa bed.
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | Bedtime routines increase sleep anxiety in some people.
       | Consistency, i.e. the time you go to bed and the time that you
       | wake up, is the most important factor.
        
       | serguzest wrote:
       | This writing is as unhelpful as telling an obese person simply to
       | exercise and eat less. Everyone is different; I'm one of those
       | people who were made to protect the tribe while they sleep. I'm
       | naturally nocturnal, and the silence of the night makes me more
       | alert. Turning on a not-so-interesting documentary or political
       | commentary on YouTube actually helps me relax and fall asleep.
        
         | enlyth wrote:
         | Same, I'm nocturnal and a naturally anxious person. If I lie in
         | bed doing nothing, I will just think about things that make me
         | more anxious.
         | 
         | A nice podcast or documentary will focus my thoughts on
         | whatever I'm listening to and help me fall asleep easier.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | Ugh. Does that affect the other people around you?
           | 
           | Asking because I live with a relative who has a similar
           | problem (needs a tv on to fall asleep) and that noise
           | directly stops me from falling asleep in the next room much
           | of the time.
           | 
           | It really sucks. :(
        
             | enlyth wrote:
             | I live alone so no :)
             | 
             | If it was bothering other people around me I'd listen with
             | my airpods.
             | 
             | Interestingly, my parents who are in their 60s, have no
             | problems getting to sleep early, and they both fall asleep
             | together to TV all the time, mostly watching reruns of old
             | shows like Columbo
        
             | Angostura wrote:
             | As said relative to do what I do. For the last 30 years
             | I've fallen asleep with one earphone in my ear. I nod off
             | quick, wife not disturbed.
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | Unfortunately, the relative isn't receptive to requests
               | nor negotiation. Oh well. :(
        
         | qazxcvbnmlp wrote:
         | I wonder how big the cohort of users that turn on mildly
         | interesting content to fall asleep to is?
         | 
         | How would a creator feel to find out most of their views are
         | people falling asleep?
        
           | zonkerdonker wrote:
           | How it's Made does it for me. Based on a lot of the youtube
           | comments, there are quite a lot of others as well!
        
           | NeoTar wrote:
           | An advertising supported YouTube creator would be delighted!
           | 
           | No, literally a lot of creators target this market now -- for
           | instance by making a mega mix of their existing content which
           | runs for two to three hours. Or releasing a video ,,xxx hours
           | of yyy to fall asleep to"
           | 
           | It's the new ,meta', apparently a big part of the YouTube
           | algorithm is watch time, and it doesn't know if the viewers
           | are awake or not. Even if those viewers aren't being shown
           | adverts, it means your other videos may get additional
           | promotion. Plus if your viewers have YouTube premium I
           | believe watch--time literally translates directly to payment
           | rates.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | For night owls, all these habits are temporary.
         | 
         | I've done a stretch of 2 weeks to 2 months of being an early
         | riser, but inevitably, like clockwork, the sleep schedule
         | drifts back to me going to bed around 2 AM and waking up around
         | 10AM.
         | 
         | And yes, I've tried everything.
        
           | beng-nl wrote:
           | As a parent of a 5 and 3 year old, I can confirm. No matter
           | how long I'm forced successfully into getting up early, I'm
           | still more alert and focused and happy as soon as the sun
           | sets, and given the opportunity I'll instantly slip back into
           | sleeping at 1-2 am again.
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | My secret has just been consistently going to bed and getting
           | up at the same time as my wife, who is not a night owl, every
           | night. Some nights are frustrating and take me longer to fall
           | asleep, most mornings I feel bit groggy, and I'm overall not
           | thrilled with my experience with sleep, but I'm able to keep
           | a consistent schedule without rubberbanding amounts of sleep,
           | I'm rarely truly exhausted during the day, and my waking
           | hours overlaps consistently with society and businesses.
           | 
           | It's certainly an imperfect compromise, but it works well
           | enough.
        
           | ricksunny wrote:
           | I've tried to chase down the literature on the genetic basis
           | for DSPS. It's still a developing field, but there have been
           | some compelling studies that are narrowing down gene loci for
           | night-owls.
           | 
           | 1. https://www.nature.com/articles/npp2009230 2.
           | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00125-015-3533-8
           | 3. https://www.sjweh.fi/article/3299
        
         | ricksunny wrote:
         | I've tried to chase down the literature on the genetic basis
         | for DSPS. It's still a developing field, but there have been
         | some compelling studies that are narrowing down gene loci for
         | night-owls.
         | 
         |  _Edit_ link:
         | https://x.com/EMSKEPhyto/status/1774210043971305814
        
         | serguzest wrote:
         | It is funny that my comment was upvoted at night and downvoted
         | in the morning by early birds. Dear early birds, your lifestyle
         | is not canonical. Yes, our civilization was built by you guys,
         | but it wouldn't have happened if we night owls had not
         | protected you while you slept.
        
           | mkl wrote:
           | There are HN readers in almost every time zone, so it's not
           | night owls and early birds. I think it's downvoted because
           | it's a shallow dismissal.
        
       | jibcage wrote:
       | The article, for all of its other faults, also manages to breeze
       | over another crucial point:
       | 
       | "Research shows that blue light suppresses the body's production
       | of melatonin, the sleep hormone. This can be helpful in the
       | morning, when you want to wake up..."
       | 
       | I find this to be a much easier habit to maintain, at least
       | during summer: as close as possible after waking up, get as much
       | light as you can, and at a regular time if possible. Sun lamps
       | are an expensive but effective option during darker months, but
       | they generally aren't covered by insurance.
       | 
       | The first I heard of this was when I spoke to a sleep doctor, and
       | it has worked much better for me than melatonin ever did.
        
         | vasco wrote:
         | Blue light effects on sleep have been utterly debunked as far
         | as I know. If you google for blue light myth you'll find very
         | convincing arguments that it was all bullshit.
        
       | fifilura wrote:
       | I did my military service (25 years ago). After that I rarely
       | wait more than 3 minutes to fall asleep.
       | 
       | Not many books get read that way unfortunately, I used to read a
       | lot before that.
       | 
       | These days I do wake up at weird hours though, not sure what to
       | do when I wake 4AM.
        
         | DrillShopper wrote:
         | Sounds like a good opportunity to read
        
           | fifilura wrote:
           | Correct observation :) Or reply to relevant replies to my
           | half baked comments on HN.
        
         | jspash wrote:
         | Could you elaborate? Was it from total exhaustion? Were you
         | taught a special technique to help you sleep? Or was it from
         | knowing you MUST get your rest or you'll suffer the entire next
         | day?
        
           | fifilura wrote:
           | Right! Should have been in my comment.
           | 
           | I think an important part of it is that is made me stop
           | worrying. Sleep will come to me eventually and meanwhile my
           | body will continue working. Maybe my brain does not work
           | optimally, but well enough.
           | 
           | Sleep is my friend.
           | 
           | (I was not anything like a navy seal but a commander of ~25
           | soldiers).
        
             | theonething wrote:
             | So being in the military made you stop worrying? How did it
             | do that?
        
               | codr7 wrote:
               | By pushing your limits.
        
               | fifilura wrote:
               | Probably. Military service in Sweden in the 90s did not
               | mean you had to worry about going to Iraq or Afghanistan.
               | 
               | As I mentioned I was also a platoon leader so I guess I
               | had som more freedom.
               | 
               | But some weeks we had to go on without much sleep. (And
               | you are constantly freezing).
               | 
               | Another thing I learned involuntarily was being a
               | timekeeper. There is always a clock counting towards the
               | next event in my head.
        
       | powersnail wrote:
       | I know that this might sound too obvious to say. But I've found
       | that, it is much easier to maintain good sleep habits when real
       | life is not stressful. If I'm facing a big problem in life, an
       | important deadline for example, it is unlikely that any effort I
       | put into sleeping habits is going to help. Sometimes, I just stay
       | up as late, but instead of working, time is spent in blaming
       | myself for not sleeping in time, and worrying about getting up
       | tomorrow.
       | 
       | The reason I think this is worth saying, is that sometimes, to
       | break the vicious cycle of [stress -> sleep-deprivation -> more
       | stress -> ...], you need to shift the focus to tackle the real
       | life problem first, and don't beat yourself up for not being a
       | good sleeper. Trying and failing to develop sleep hygiene can
       | pile on the frustration and worsen the vicious cycle.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | Like in the article, reading in bed helps me. I read something
         | I can get into, get caught up in. Then I can relax, and am
         | likely to let sleep get me.
         | 
         | Doesn't always work, enough anxiety and you can't immerse
         | yourself.
        
           | wkjagt wrote:
           | Reading in bed totally does it for me. Most of the time a
           | novel or something. I can do three pages at most before
           | everything becomes blurry and I struggle to stay awake and
           | make it to the end of the page.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | you can reuse those three pages the next night... :)
        
         | adriand wrote:
         | This is certainly true, although many of us have to deal with
         | problems and projects large enough and time-consuming enough
         | that if they prevented us from sleeping properly, we'd never
         | sleep properly. It takes practice, essentially. Experimenting
         | with various approaches until one finds methods that work.
         | 
         | For the particular issue you described, one approach is to
         | journal before bedtime. Write out what is worrying you about
         | the project, its deadline, etc. Put on paper the thoughts that
         | are swirling through your head. Once captured in that manner,
         | they may leave your brain alone for a few hours. It also helps
         | to be organized, so you can reassure yourself that you have a
         | plan.
         | 
         | Then there is the dreaded 3 or 4 am wake up, where all the
         | thoughts can come rushing back in, preventing sleep for the
         | next hour or perhaps even for the rest of the night. I have
         | found that body scan meditation is helpful at these times.
         | 
         | I am not always successful, and these methods won't work for
         | everyone. The key is, like I said before, experimenting to find
         | methods that work, and practicing the ones that show promise.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Journaling. Ugh. You're not wrong and I don't doubt that it
           | helps, but to most of us it just seems like _more work_.
        
             | galleywest200 wrote:
             | This is one reason why I write a short poem for my
             | journaling. Maybe just four lines, does not matter if it
             | rhymes. Poems are for fun, not work. Unless you are a poet,
             | I suppose.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | I went on a surf holiday to Indonesia, I was asleep by 9pm
         | every night after day 3. Als spent time in various deserts, I'm
         | so far away from my problems there I was in bed asleep by 8pm
         | and up at 4:30am, with plenty of energy.
        
         | dinosaurdynasty wrote:
         | When I quit work because of burnout some years ago, at some
         | point I just started going to bed every night at like 9pm with
         | no effort whatsoever, really.
         | 
         | Completely broke when I started a job again and has been
         | difficult ever after.
        
       | NGRhodes wrote:
       | I'm surprised the article did not mention speaking to a doctor
       | about the possibility of underlying medical conditions
       | (physical/mental health/neurological), if all suggestions fail.
        
         | DrillShopper wrote:
         | I'm not.
         | 
         | I have "good" insurance in the States and I still had to pay
         | $700 out of pocket for a sleep study and another $750 to _rent_
         | a CPAP that my insurance company demanded nightly uploaded logs
         | from.
        
           | bdangubic wrote:
           | exactly... speaking to a doctor eliminates 97.34% of all
           | readers
        
           | Schiendelman wrote:
           | That is not good insurance.
        
             | DrillShopper wrote:
             | It's good by the standards of the US - low deductible,
             | broad prescription coverage, no need to get a referral to
             | see a specialist, and low/no copay for normal doctor
             | visits.
        
       | throw24111 wrote:
       | I regularly go to sleep at around 6 am, when the sun starts
       | coming up, and wake up at around 2 / 3 pm. It doesn't matter
       | where I am, or the time of the year. That's my natural bed time.
        
         | baw-bag wrote:
         | That is unfortunate. Mine is 2am and it has been that way for 3
         | decades. It is a pain in the ass because I only sleep well at
         | the weekend but then my mornings are gone and family give no
         | end of grief about being lazy.
         | 
         | 6am is a whole new ball game. Not sure how I could deal with
         | that.
        
         | ricksunny wrote:
         | I appreciate that a lot. I'm generally sleeping 4:30am-12:30pm.
         | Recent travel puts me at 10:30pm-6:30am which I'm trying to
         | artificially maintain for a month. I'm sorry that you felt you
         | had to create a throwaway account to post what you did, it's
         | telling about the prejudices that circadian-divergent people
         | (my term, mostly called DSPS) face in society. (e.g. parallel
         | response talking about being called lazy by family). I try hard
         | to locate myself in places (time zones) where I can exploit
         | 'circadian arbitrage'. Remote work is the big enabler, and I
         | consciously work to help folks maintain & expand the remote
         | work ecosystem's momentum.
        
           | em-bee wrote:
           | the funny thing is that because of such sleep times i never
           | had a problem with jetlag. if i am forced to get up early and
           | work all day then i can also get to sleep earlier. the issue
           | though is that since i have kids, i only get time for myself,
           | eg to watch tv or a movie after the rest of the family is
           | asleep, thus pushing my bedtime again back late into the
           | night. i haven't found a way to solve that without completely
           | giving up watching tv. (and i don't watch much to begin with.
           | 1-2 hours per day)
        
         | thirdacc wrote:
         | What do you do for a living? That's my natural schedule too.
         | Flexible dev jobs are not as common as I was led to believe,
         | and this has affected my life deeply.
        
         | tonyedgecombe wrote:
         | That sounds like Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder [1]. There is a
         | subreddit on it with some sad stories of people having to give
         | up good careers to work as security guards because society
         | can't find a role for them.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_disorder
        
       | lotophage wrote:
       | I didn't know that "revenge bedtime procrastination" was a term
       | but it definitely describes me.
       | 
       | I have to set an alarm for bedtime, but I still struggle with
       | being disciplined about it.
        
         | lazyeye wrote:
         | One thing I've done is create a "color clock" using a smart
         | bulb that changes color based on a daily schedule. So at 8:00pm
         | the bulb has a dim orange glow, this changes to dim red glow at
         | 9pm and then turns off at 10pm (sleep time). Its a really nice
         | relaxing way of ensuring a regular sleep pattern (no longer
         | clock watching etc).
        
           | edem wrote:
           | how did you make it?
        
           | lotophage wrote:
           | That's a great idea! I'm kicking myself for not thinking of
           | it because I did the opposite for my toddler to let him know
           | when it was okay to get up in the morning (otherwise he'd be
           | up before 5am). I had a dim red as a whole room nightlight
           | that transitioned to dim yellow-green to signal that is was
           | now okay to get up.
        
       | jerrygoyal wrote:
       | Here's a method that worked for me and i am able to consistently
       | fall asleep within 15 minutes or less:
       | 
       | Direct your attention to sleep. Whenever you go to bed and notice
       | yourself actively thinking about something just direct that
       | attention back to sleep. Think about it, it's the attention that
       | keeps you awake. Note that 'actively thinking' is different than
       | mind-wandering which is passive and actually helps in falling
       | asleep. This will be difficult initially but you will get better
       | over time at controlling attention. This is because attention is
       | like a muscle so you need to train over time.
       | 
       | I have been doing this for months and it works.
        
         | dqv wrote:
         | I think for a lot of us that directs us to actively think about
         | sleep instead of actually directing our attention toward sleep.
         | 
         | My strategy is to try to jumpstart the memory reconciliation
         | process, which is kind of a passive way of directing my
         | attention toward sleep. It basically just recounting the day
         | from the beginning when I woke up and tracing back to the
         | current moment. It does cause my mind to wander and sometimes
         | be too active, but if I notice that, I will just start restart
         | the recounting process. I think this might also be what makes
         | journaling so useful - memory and thought reconciliation.
        
         | blendo wrote:
         | I used to try and stare at the _inside_ of my eyelids, as if
         | looking at a TV screen. It seemed like once images started to
         | appear, while my eyes were closed, my brain began to think it
         | was dreaming and just gave up on being awake :-)
        
           | JoeyJoJoJr wrote:
           | This is exactly what I do and it seems to be the most
           | effective method I have found. It helps to get me out of
           | whatever rumination I am having and into a more mindful
           | state.
        
           | lesostep wrote:
           | Hallucinationes hypnopompicae. I've had them too, and they do
           | help falling asleep. I've had them for years, and then I got
           | treated for anixiety and changed jobs, and - poof! - they
           | were gone. Now I only experience them if I'm very tired or
           | stressed. I had two friends that also saw them, but they only
           | saw them when they were very-very stressed and didn't get
           | enough sleep. I don't know if they are always a sign of
           | stress, or if some people do see them naturally. My friend
           | group is certainly screwed towards "it's a stress thing"
           | category.
        
         | WildGreenLeave wrote:
         | My personal tip is to slow your breathing, slow it down enough
         | that you breath too slow and feel a bit deprived from oxygen.
         | Then slowly breath faster but try to keep it as low as
         | possible.
         | 
         | I think (but I am not an expert in this) it slows down the
         | heart and with that, allows you to fall asleep easier.
        
           | avtar wrote:
           | > slow it down enough that you breath too slow and feel a bit
           | deprived from oxygen
           | 
           | A resource that I've been using lately that has some details
           | regarding this particular part of the breathing process:
           | https://midlmeditation.com/meditation-for-anxiety
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | You probably can't really "feel" oxygen deprivation from that
           | breath work. More likely you're feeling hypercapnia.
        
         | pnutjam wrote:
         | Whenever I have trouble sleeping, I like to imagine myself
         | floating in the air with clouds underneath and I slowly drift
         | into the clouds. Just keeping this in my head crowds out the
         | other stuff and I drift off pretty consistently.
        
       | amanbolat_com wrote:
       | I just go to GitHub and read random project's code, it makes me
       | sleepy in 5 mins.
        
         | presspot wrote:
         | I just go to HN and read the comments.
        
       | plg wrote:
       | get up earlier
       | 
       | seriously though after I started getting up every single day
       | without fail at 6:00 am, no matter what happened the day before,
       | no matter what's on my schedule today, ever since I have had no
       | trouble whatsoever ever falling asleep. Usually by 9:30 pm I am
       | feeling v sleepy and by 10 pm I cannot help but lie down and
       | close my eyes.
       | 
       | The only thing that modulates this is caffeine. No caffeine after
       | 2:00 pm otherwise I may be up until 11:00 pm even midnight.
       | 
       | but even then, wake at 6:00 am the next day without fail, that
       | was the magic bullet for me
       | 
       | all this stuff about bedtime routines, warm bath, soft lighting,
       | etc, seems funny to me - like I said by 9:30 pm and certainly by
       | 10:00 pm I cannot help but lie down and close my eyes, I don't
       | need any enticements.
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | Well, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier.
        
           | WildGreenLeave wrote:
           | You don't _have_ to, I think previous commenter means that
           | after a few days of feeling tired and groggy you will be
           | tired earlier in the evening and go to bed earlier.
        
           | BoiledCabbage wrote:
           | > Well, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier.
           | 
           | Why?
        
             | znpy wrote:
             | Because if you don't you're going to regret it. Been there,
             | done that, it's torture. Quite literally, sleep deprivation
             | is a form of torture.
             | 
             | Waking up super early without having a decent amount of
             | time is just another form if self harm.
        
               | exe34 wrote:
               | i think the idea isn't to sleep late and wake up early
               | consistently. instead it's about waking up at the exact
               | same time everyday, no matter how late you went to bed
               | the previous night for reasons inside/outside your
               | control. the expectation is that the next night you'll
               | feel sleepy earlier and catch up.
               | 
               | in contrast, walking up late one day because you slept
               | late the previous night will wreak havoc.
               | 
               | I'm only trying to clarify this because it works the same
               | way for me.
        
           | m_a_g wrote:
           | Adjusting in increments truly helps. If you usually sleep 8
           | hours, try waking half an hour early for a few days. It won't
           | cause sleep deprivation, but you'll feel the need to go to
           | bed early.
        
         | bradfa wrote:
         | Get up earlier but at a consistent time each day. Add in some
         | daily exercise and that's what has done the trick for me.
        
           | Unai wrote:
           | I don't think "early" really matters, but consistency has
           | been the key for me.
           | 
           | I used to set an alarm every night in bed for 7-8 hours
           | later, relative to whatever random time I was getting in bed.
           | For years the only advice I ever heard in terms of sleep
           | quality was "getting a good 7-8 hours", so this led to years
           | of awful sleep.
           | 
           | Now, I set an alarm _once_ and don 't ever touch it again. It
           | goes off every day of the week, weekends and all, everyday at
           | the same time. And it's been one of the biggest and most
           | directly noticeable changes I've ever done for my routine and
           | wellbeing. Sure, sometimes I go to bed late and I don't get
           | my 7-8 hours, but for the first time since I was a kid I feel
           | sleepy at night and it doesn't take 1+ hours in bed to fall
           | asleep.
           | 
           | If anyone reading is in the same situation I was, please try
           | it. Even of you usually wake up late, even at noon or later,
           | just wake up at the same "late" hour everyday. "Early"
           | doesn't matter. But after a while you can make small 15-30
           | minute changes in the wake-up time every month to two months
           | or so, if you wanna start waking up earlier. If you still
           | have trouble falling asleep, even some light exercise like a
           | light walk around the block, helps a lot, particularly if you
           | spent the day sitting.
           | 
           | Maybe this is super obvious for most people, but it wasn't
           | for me, so it might be helpful for someone else.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | Getting up earlier is a stress reliever as I have more time in
         | the day to accomplish tasks, therefore I sleep knowing things
         | are ok.
         | 
         | If I get up even an hour later than 5:30am, the stress builds
         | as things fall behind schedule.
        
         | EasyMark wrote:
         | I generally go to bet by 12 and get up at 6, generally, I think
         | it's the set schedule, not necessarily getting up at an exact
         | time no matter what. However, I'll bring up not everyone is the
         | same, so people have to experiment, but not give up too early,
         | at least a month and keeping honest notes on it, rather than
         | relying on very fallible human memory. Excel is great for this
         | amongst other things.
        
         | voxl wrote:
         | It would only seem funny to you if you ignore the most
         | fundamentally important fact of humanity: Humans have much more
         | variance than normality. Even if half the population can get by
         | with what you're saying, there is a full other half filling out
         | a wide variance.
        
       | wkjagt wrote:
       | For me it's, in no particular order:
       | 
       | - Shower before bed. Going to bed clean feels so much better. -
       | No programming just before sleep - A cold-ish bedroom - Read
       | before sleep (a novel, not HN). - As little light as possible in
       | the bedroom
        
       | robg wrote:
       | Neuroscientist here, been teaching my kids since they were really
       | little to power down: lights off, slower and slower breathing,
       | time to say goodnight to our adventures and thoughts as we'll
       | have more tomorrow. They are consistently asleep by 7-ish.
       | 
       | Curious if anyone here was taught how to fall asleep by their
       | parents or school? We teach our kids so much, but we don't seem
       | to teach the importance of sleep as well as we teach the
       | importance of brushing your teeth or nutrition.
        
         | Brajeshwar wrote:
         | I'm just an average person here, but I teach my kids to have a
         | wind-down routine that is very similar to my own--making a
         | quick plan for tomorrow, reading something, being bored, or
         | starting lying down in bed, telling/listening to stories.
         | Definitely no devices or anything that has an LED light or
         | produces sounds in the bedroom. If you have a work/study
         | laptop/computer in the bedroom, start winding down and let it
         | sleep.
        
         | HellDunkel wrote:
         | I taught both of my kids. Dark room, by themselves, door left
         | open a gap so they could hear us talk. Only stayed with them a
         | few minutes to calm down before i left the room if they had
         | falled asleep by then or not. This was just how i felt it had
         | to be done and even though my wife had doubts it worked out
         | extremly well. Or maybe i was just lucky.
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | I'm not saying any of that is _wrong_ but is it really
         | necessary? My kids are older but they 've been in competitive
         | travel club sports for years and most days they're tired enough
         | in the evening that falling asleep is no problem. We don't
         | bother with anything about lights or controlled breathing or
         | whatever.
        
           | timacles wrote:
           | Yeah all of these modern "hacks" for sleep can be trumped
           | with just being an active person who gets up at a reasonable
           | time, child or adult.
           | 
           | Something I observed while spending time in India with my
           | wife's families is how no one follows any sleep schedule.
           | Everyone from babies, to toddlers, kids, and adults are just
           | really busy all day with various chores (the younger ones
           | with just play of course). Once night rolls around, people
           | just start falling asleep, anywhere they are, even in a
           | crowded room with the lights on and people chatting, and
           | sleep like a rock until the morning. Then you do it all again
           | the next day. Theres also no "sleeping in." By 7:30-8 AM
           | everyone is up and busy with something
           | 
           | I think the idleness of modern culture has created a lot of
           | the "insomnia" we hear about, which is just a mind that seeks
           | some sort of stimulation at night after being disengaged all
           | day.
        
           | robg wrote:
           | Are they getting enough sleep? If they need an alarm clock,
           | they aren't. I was surprised that less than 20% of 12th
           | graders in our large metro county report getting 8 hours on
           | school nights. The AAP recommendation is 8-10 hours a night
           | for ages 13-18, that's just flights less than the 9-12 hours
           | for ages 6 to 12. Deep sleep can be enough to survive but
           | it's not enough to thrive (for most people).
        
             | nradov wrote:
             | Probably occasionally sleep deprived. If you have a
             | tournament today and a school project due tomorrow then
             | sometimes you have to sacrifice a little sleep. It's not
             | ideal but it's part of learning time management and how to
             | operate as an adult in the real world. There are always
             | trade-offs.
        
         | 2Gkashmiri wrote:
         | Growing up I had developed a habit of keeping my fingers in my
         | ears to shut out noise in order to sleep. And side sleepping.
         | 
         | Then growing up, I observed my brain was in overdrive. This was
         | circa 2010 and I would spend 7-9 hours online everyday.
         | 
         | I would conjure up things to discuss in my brain and that would
         | consume good chunk of my sleep time and render me tired in
         | mornings.
         | 
         | So, I set out to do the impossible.
         | 
         | I trained myself to shut off my mind. Not think, not to
         | imagine, not to go off on a tangent and build imaginary
         | stories.
         | 
         | That helped a lot.
         | 
         | I am able to fall asleep in 20-30 seconds now thanks to this.
         | 
         | Also, about 7-8 years ago I started listening to audiobooks
         | (thanks MaM) and I found a nice quirk. I am able to follow a
         | story (if I want to) as long as I can actively listen every
         | word. If I start skupping, I will fall asleep.
         | 
         | I found the 20-30 seconds time after recording a start time for
         | a boring book, then listening to the book and trying to fall
         | asleep and next day see how much I can remember. If I do, means
         | I was awake. That gave me an average 20-30 seconds for really
         | boring stuff.
         | 
         | Same for when I am not listening to audiobooks. That time I
         | have to be extra careful and not think.
        
       | benbojangles wrote:
       | Generic article, which does nothing to address biological,
       | environmental, and many many other factors.
        
         | kodt wrote:
         | Having young children is conveniently not mentioned.
        
       | IAmGraydon wrote:
       | I used to stay up until around 1am every night. I found it very
       | easy to fix this - I now go to the gym at 5:30am. Within a couple
       | of weeks I found it very easy to go to sleep at 10pm or earlier.
       | It's more than just getting up early - you're telling your body
       | you need it to be ready to perform early in the morning. Just
       | like a muscle grows when you demand more of it, I think this sets
       | off an adaptive reaction that results in earlier and easier
       | sleep.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Okay, but now you're going to the gym at 5:30 in the morning.
         | For everyone who isn't an early bird, that's literal torture.
         | In other words, it's nice if that works for you, but this is
         | not really generalizable.
        
           | sokoloff wrote:
           | I was a big time night owl before we had kids. Now, I get up
           | without an alarm around 5-5:30 most days and am able to fall
           | asleep around 10.
           | 
           | I don't mind the change at all and don't think it's
           | impossible for most people to habituate themselves to a
           | different schedule.
        
           | IAmGraydon wrote:
           | Going to the gym at 5:30am is torture for everyone. I'm not
           | some weirdo who enjoys getting out of my warm bed and going
           | out into the cold and dark to pick up weights. I do it
           | precisely because it's hard. The workout that happens in the
           | gym is great, but the real workout happens in my head every
           | time I have to tell myself to get up and go.
        
           | marcus0x62 wrote:
           | I'm not an early bird. I work out with a group at start times
           | between 4:45 and 5:45 AM five days a week. Most of the other
           | people I work out with are also not early birds. We workout
           | early in the morning because that is the only time of day
           | where we don't have other demands on our time.
           | 
           | Nobody is being tortured (literally or figuratively) and it
           | is highly generalizable.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Meh. Anyone can get used to it after a while. A little
           | torture is good for you.
        
         | dakiol wrote:
         | I go to sleep at 1am. I wake up at 9:45am. Is there something
         | wrong with this?
         | 
         | I have my daily standup at 10:30, so I have enough time to
         | drink water, and do morning rituals before I start to work.
         | Feels good. I don't know what would be the advantage of going
         | to sleep at 10pm and waking up at 6:45.
        
           | a1vd wrote:
           | That's approximately 4 hours of work per day (excluding the
           | 'whatever comes' time). For most businesses, availability
           | during standard office hours might be too limited with this
           | schedule.
        
           | IAmGraydon wrote:
           | I would say there's nothing wrong with it if it keeps you
           | happy and healthy. For me, getting out of bed at 10:30am
           | would feel like I'm leaving a lot on the table. I like to be
           | productive with as many daylight hours as possible. It's
           | personal preference. If I were retired and looking to relax a
           | bit more, I might adopt a bit later schedule.
        
         | wintermutestwin wrote:
         | Always at 5am whether I like it or not. I'd love to be able to
         | hit the gym then, but my morning poop is a mandatory piece of
         | my wellbeing routine, but that requires me to eat breakfast to
         | get the works going. I can't lift with a full belly and my high
         | protein diet means that proper digestion is a 2+ hour affair.
         | 
         | I have always been curious how people manage this to workout so
         | early. Do you skip pooping? That would wreak havok on my
         | workday.
        
       | philippta wrote:
       | But I don't want my free time to end.
        
       | twoodfin wrote:
       | FWIW, "sleepfoundation.org" is owned by Sleep Doctor, and is
       | essentially a sales funnel to sell CPAP machines and other sleep-
       | related therapy.
       | 
       | Nothing wrong with that, but it's at least a little shady to
       | present themselves this way.
       | 
       |  _A Sleep Doctor brand, SleepFoundation.org was acquired from the
       | National Sleep Foundation in 2019 and is no longer affiliated
       | with the non-profit organization. The National Sleep Foundation
       | is an independent, 501(c)(3) based in Washington, D.C._
        
         | morjom wrote:
         | New website for the NSF is thensf.org for those wondering.
        
           | mock-possum wrote:
           | Aw I was expecting the Nintendo sound format :(
        
         | pedalpete wrote:
         | I've been in the sleep industry for almost 5 years, and I never
         | knew this. Wow!! Thanks for opening my eyes. I assumed it was
         | some publicly funded body.
        
       | counternotions wrote:
       | Huh, how did a mattress review website stuffed with affiliate
       | links make it on HN?
        
       | scotty79 wrote:
       | 1. abstain from coffee and tea for 3 weeks
       | 
       | 2. wake up at desired hour using alarm clock and drink one coffee
       | 
       | 3. don't fall asleep before your desired hour of going to bed
       | 
       | 4. rince an repeat until the alarm clock is no longer needed
       | 
       | 5. Never drink coffee or tea again unless it's just one after
       | waking up timely (not late)
        
       | jakupovic wrote:
       | This is my hack and your millage* may vary. Lately I close my
       | eyes and scan via eyeballs for a light point and focus on it as
       | much as I can, not sure how others perceive this. Obviously with
       | eyes closed you cannot see anything so maybe I imagine this
       | point, but in any case it makes me fall asleep instantly.
       | Hopefully that makes sense ...
        
       | senectus1 wrote:
       | since i started working bakers hours at about age 16 I have had
       | to force myself to sleep on demand.
       | 
       | many decades later (now I'm a white collar 9-5er) I can still do
       | it.
       | 
       | It realy is just a matter of self control. (for me at least)
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | A couple of years ago I realized sleep is really one of the most
       | important factors for my overall wellbeing.
       | 
       | I have an alarm on my phone at 10pm which signals the end of any
       | activity other than reading with my Kindle in bed. It has worked
       | wonders. The first couple of weeks I took 1mg of melatonin which
       | helped my body reset the clock.
       | 
       | I fall asleep around 11pm every day and wake up without alarms
       | around 7am. I work at home on my own projects so I don't need a
       | fixed schedule but my body is very happy with this.
        
       | penguin_booze wrote:
       | It's not a strict routine, but I sometimes listen to fairy tales
       | from Myths And Legends [0] podcast and put myself to sleep. And
       | I'm supposedly a grown ass adult. #noshame
       | 
       | [0] https://www.mythpodcast.com/
        
       | seadan83 wrote:
       | Surprised bright morning late not mentioned. Camping usually
       | resets circadian rhythm in as little as 3 days. Bright sun in the
       | morning gets a person up with the birds, no lights at night puts
       | a person to sleep.
       | 
       | Artificially, similar can be done: turn on all lights when you
       | get up. After sunset, use minimal light, with as much red hue as
       | possible.
       | 
       | The other points I think hold pretty well and also are important:
       | get exercise, avoid caffeine later in the day, etc..
        
       | EasyMark wrote:
       | The most important thing for me was to lay down at the same time
       | no matter what, even if I rolled around for 2 hours. Also no
       | stimulants of any sort after 6pm. I stick to the Schedule though,
       | even if it has pissed off some of my friends. If they want me to
       | alleviate it they get me on Friday night, or nothing. I think you
       | have to have a "day off" day for just about everything whether
       | it's exercise or a diet.
        
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