[HN Gopher] Food Colorants Before Aniline Dyes (1991) [pdf]
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       Food Colorants Before Aniline Dyes (1991) [pdf]
        
       Author : noleary
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-10-31 06:40 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (acshist.scs.illinois.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (acshist.scs.illinois.edu)
        
       | t43562 wrote:
       | This sort of thing has always seemed to me to be the ultimate
       | example of why we don't rely entirely on competition and the free
       | market to provide us with "the best deal".
       | 
       | How can you know if your yellow sweets are coloured with lead
       | chromate? How could you know all the millions of things you need
       | to know about possible dangers so you can evaluate if some
       | product that's 10% cheaper is actually not going to kill you?
       | 
       | It's only regulation and government interference that can make it
       | manageable for the consumer.
        
         | gambiting wrote:
         | >>How can you know if your yellow sweets are coloured with lead
         | chromate?
         | 
         | Well because if they are then eventually someone will get sick,
         | they will sue the company, the company will have to pay
         | millions in damages, and it will have to stop using lead in
         | their sweets, which will scare every other company away from
         | trying to do the similar thing /s
        
           | altruios wrote:
           | I had a lengthy reply before I saw the /s...
           | 
           | Poe's law strikes again! There are in fact people that think
           | like that, and have to be lead by the nose to waters of
           | wisdom with the hopes of drinking a small bit.
        
             | mapt wrote:
             | Clearly the legal system has broken down (been deliberately
             | broken), and the regulatory system has simultaneously
             | broken down (been deliberately broken), so somebody's going
             | to have to get a little creative relative to the norms that
             | they were raised with, if they want to continue to actually
             | have a society rather than a Lotka-Volterra equation.
             | 
             | The impetus towards revenge killings and blood debts
             | successfully deterred malicious actions through most of
             | human prehistory and even much of history. With the trend
             | towards corporate consolidation, each CEO's exposure is
             | actually pretty huge when "their actions result in the
             | death of others". All that's necessary is a well-armed
             | grieving family member and a social narrative that
             | actually, yes, this is how we do things. All we're missing
             | is the narrative.
             | 
             | And the geeks actually have the narrative. Cyberpunk is
             | just the most aspirational dream of occasional justice that
             | can exist within the confines of the America Reagan built,
             | in the post-liberal corporatist society.
             | 
             | >> The personal, as everyone is so fucking fond of saying,
             | is political. So if some idiot politician, some power
             | player, tries to execute policies that harm you or those
             | you care about, take it personally. Get angry. The
             | Machinery of Justice will not serve you here - it is slow
             | and cold, and it is theirs, hardware and soft-. Only the
             | little people suffer at the hands of Justice; the creatures
             | of power slide from under it with a wink and a grin. If you
             | want justice, you will have to claw it from them. Make it
             | personal. Do as much damage as you can. Get your message
             | across. That way, you stand a better chance of being taken
             | seriously next time. Of being considered dangerous. And
             | make no mistake about this: being taken seriously, being
             | considered dangerous marks the difference - the only
             | difference in their eyes - between players and little
             | people. Players they will make deals with. Little people
             | they liquidate. And time and again they cream your
             | liquidation, your displacement, your torture and brutal
             | execution with the ultimate insult that it's just business,
             | it's politics, it's the way of the world, it's a tough life
             | and that it's nothing personal. Well, fuck them. Make it
             | personal. - Takeshi Kovacs, Altered Carbon
        
           | K0balt wrote:
           | Ah, the wonders of the free market!
           | 
           | Fortunately, we saw a solution to the problem of dead
           | customers just a day or two ago right here on HN!
           | https://repaer.earth/
        
         | encoderer wrote:
         | It's a lot easier to kill a person than to kill a company.
        
           | HarryHirsch wrote:
           | We are seeing that in Sinaloa right now - El Mayo is out of
           | commission, but there's money to be made in fentanyl, cocaine
           | and avocado.
        
         | wahern wrote:
         | In theory you would have independent, private organizations
         | which people trusted to inspect manufacturing facilities and
         | review products. In the U.S., those types of organizations
         | existed before modern Federal regulations. For example, United
         | States Pharmacopeia (USP) or Underwriters Laboratories (UL),
         | both of which were founded in the 19th century. Both of those
         | organizations still exist and their role has actually been
         | incorporated into law.
         | 
         | > It's only regulation and government interference that can
         | make it manageable for the consumer.
         | 
         | I would disagree with such a strong statement, but for various
         | reasons I would agree that a purely private approach probably
         | wouldn't be able to achieve the current degree of consumer
         | safety in the U.S., though in less militantly individualistic
         | societies perhaps it could. (Note that "the government", as in
         | the police state, and institutions of social governance are not
         | the same thing.)
        
       | pascoej wrote:
       | I know it's somewhat unpopular because of many things are labeled
       | with insignificant quantities or are treated as a fact of life,
       | but Prop 65 has to be my favorite ballot proposition.
       | 
       | I would rather know what potentially harmful substances are in
       | something and decide if it's acceptable than not be told at all.
        
         | Aloisius wrote:
         | Prop 65 threshold for level of harm is two orders of magnitude
         | below any effect level (not the harm level, effect) which I'd
         | argue creates so many false notices of harm that most people
         | simply ignore them eroding trust in the government.
         | 
         | Indeed the level is so low that under the law, the daily
         | recommended dose of vitamin A for pregnant women would need a
         | notice saying it caused birth defects. They had to ignore the
         | law and add a caveat for vitamin A since _not_ taking it causes
         | birth defects.
         | 
         | If they didn't pick an arbitrary threshold, ignoring scientific
         | consensus on what dose makes the poison, it would have been far
         | more successful.
        
           | pampa wrote:
           | I think there was a prop 65 warning on a box of kreg pocket
           | screws (or was it the jig?).
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | It might be your preference but prop 65 warnings have basically
         | taught an entire generation that safety warnings are
         | meaningless and can be ignored, which is presumably the
         | opposite of the desired effect.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | For a history of the first artificial (clothing) dye, see Simon
       | Garfield's book _Mauve: How One Man Invented a Colour That
       | Changed the World_ :
       | 
       | * https://www.simongarfield.com/books/mauve/
       | 
       | * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/580291.Mauve
       | 
       | * https://archive.org/details/mauvehowonemanin0000garf
       | 
       | It's a few years old now (2000), so I don't know if there's a
       | newer/better 'full-length' laymen treatment on the topic:
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Perkin
        
       | redprince wrote:
       | Mentioned in the article, the Pure Food and Drug Act of 1906 has
       | an interesting history. It came about due to the work of Harvey
       | Washington Wiley who used healthy volunteers to test and document
       | the effects of then used preservatives like borax and
       | formaldehyde. The volunteers were called "The Poison Squad".
       | There's a PBS documentary about them:
       | https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8jbub8
        
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