[HN Gopher] The Karma connection in Chrome Web Store
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       The Karma connection in Chrome Web Store
        
       Author : supermatou
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2024-10-30 17:23 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (palant.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (palant.info)
        
       | tencentshill wrote:
       | Is there any way to only allow chrome extensions to update with
       | permission? It seems like any extension on the store could become
       | malicious overnight, automatically, for millions of users.
        
         | modeless wrote:
         | I don't think so. However, extensions are automatically
         | disabled if they request more permissions. And in Manifest v3
         | most extensions won't have access to most pages unless you
         | click on them.
        
           | lapcat wrote:
           | > And in Manifest v3 most extensions won't have access to
           | most pages unless you click on them.
           | 
           | That's not necessarily true.
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | Personally I have 15 extensions installed. Only four of
             | them have access to all sites, and two of those are because
             | they are not updated to Manifest v3 yet. I didn't say it
             | was impossible for a Manifest v3 extension to have access
             | to all sites. _Most_ will not.
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | > Is there any way to only allow chrome extensions to update
         | with permission?
         | 
         | With a firewall.
        
           | extraduder_ire wrote:
           | Can a firewall rule distinguish between an extension update
           | and a new install? Would blocking the entire chrome web store
           | cause other problems in chrome?
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | Most users have no way to vet a chrome extension update (or on
         | initial install). If we want strong security for everyone, we
         | need better solutions than that
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | Here is one workaround: if you have to use a Chrome extension,
         | make a separate profile just for that task. Don't run any by
         | default.
        
         | sovok_x wrote:
         | AFAIK there are two ways for this, neither of which is
         | convenient to use: install all extensions from the source (you
         | can unpack an existing crx for it or use their clonned repo if
         | it's opensource) or use a group policy to disable extensions
         | autoupdate and update each of them manually when the new
         | version has something you want.
        
       | semenko wrote:
       | I was optimistically hoping some of the MV3 changes would result
       | in Chrome webstore policy enforcement being standardized, but
       | that hasn't happened.
       | 
       | Sensor Tower (https://sensortower.com/) makes a lot of popular
       | extensions, like StayFocusd https://www.stayfocusd.com/. They
       | seem to resell ad data (in violation of [1]?) and ship likely
       | obfuscated code [2] (in violation of [3]?), but there's no
       | enforcement or even clear reporting mechanism.
       | 
       | [1] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/webstore/program-
       | policies/...
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/?crx=https%3A%2F%2Fclients2.googl...
       | 
       | [3] https://developer.chrome.com/docs/webstore/program-
       | policies/...
        
         | Raed667 wrote:
         | Event with MV3 you still have access to
         | `chrome.webRequest.onBeforeRequest` and content scripts, so
         | this particular issue won't be 100% solved.
         | 
         | I don't think the solution is technical. The solution would be
         | a strict policy, and nuke every extension and publisher from
         | the store who even hints at doing this kind of BS.
        
         | palant wrote:
         | _Note_ : I am the author of this article.
         | 
         | MV3 makes it considerably harder to introduce a security
         | vulnerability, but it doesn't really help with outright
         | malicious extensions. In the end this isn't an issue which can
         | be solved by technical means. It's a moderation issue, and
         | Google currently seems to be scaling back moderation despite
         | not being great at it to start with.
        
       | michaelbuckbee wrote:
       | There was a question raised but not really answered about "what
       | do these extensions what with all this browsing data?" - while it
       | may be that they're used for direct ad targeting (like real time
       | ad buying against your IP address) it's more likely that they're
       | selling "click stream" data.
       | 
       | In its most innocuous form, this is stuff like SimilarWeb (which
       | is like a more advanced Google Trends), but in the B2B world,
       | it's also custom enterprise reports that are like "how many
       | people that use our bank at xyz also use any other bank at this
       | array of domains and which are most common?"
        
         | palant wrote:
         | _Note_ : I am the author of this article.
         | 
         | That question is answered, in the last section of the article.
         | And: yes, they are selling it, as they admit in the privacy
         | policy.
        
       | cxr wrote:
       | Most people aren't (or at least feel they aren't) able to take a
       | hardline stance about only using free software, but if there's
       | one area of your digital life you should be able to apply it to,
       | it's browser extensions.
        
       | bborud wrote:
       | Why is Google not policing this? Liability concerns?
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | Not reliably detectable by machines, not willing to allocate
         | humans.
        
       | barumrho wrote:
       | I've decided that browser extensions are too much of a
       | security/privacy risk. I just stick with 1password extension and
       | an ad blocker extension that uses Safari's Content Blocker API
       | only.
       | 
       | And then from time to time I have a dedicated profile on Chrome
       | to use other extensions that might be useful, but I don't do day-
       | to-day browsing there.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | I'm similar
         | 
         | I have all relatives set up with a separate browser for e.g.
         | banking, and it has no extensions at all
         | 
         | then the usual internet browsing one with the security
         | nightmare than is the chrome/firefox app store
        
       | _fw wrote:
       | I am absolutely flabbergasted at the fact that Chrome extension
       | security is the way it is, considering how much Google spends to
       | keep chrome secure.
       | 
       | How is it, in 2024, users can still blindly install malicious
       | software directly into their browser from a web store with
       | Google's name at the top of it?
       | 
       | This goes to show even the most cautious and conscientious of
       | users can get caught out by their extension changing hands. What,
       | is Google expecting us to review our extensions, and their
       | permissions, and their authors, and their authors' associated
       | businesses, every time we want to use our computer?
       | 
       | Additionally, are we even able to review the source code of
       | extensions if they are not open source?
        
         | timabdulla wrote:
         | You can unpack and view the code of any extension after you've
         | installed it. There's even a rule against obfuscation, though
         | I'm not sure how enforced that is.
         | 
         | A Chrome extension is basically a zip archive with a bunch of
         | JavaScript inside. There's no safeguarding of the code within.
        
           | Raed667 wrote:
           | > There's even a rule against obfuscation
           | 
           | Does that only cover the background/web-worker or does it
           | also include the UI parts (popup, content-ui, dev-tools...) ?
           | That would make using something like React or Vue almost
           | impossible.
        
             | timabdulla wrote:
             | There's no rule against minification, which I assume is
             | what you're referring to when you say it would make using
             | React or Vue impossible.
             | 
             | There's a difference between minification and obfuscation,
             | but again, I'm not sure how they adjudicate it or how much
             | they enforce it.
        
           | hysan wrote:
           | > There's even a rule against obfuscation
           | 
           | This is definitely not enforced. I've downloaded multiple
           | extensions in the past when I wanted to learn how they
           | worked. All of them were obfuscated.
           | 
           | edit: saw the below comment and editing before this gets
           | questioned. I'm not talking about minification. It was
           | definitely obfuscation.
        
         | rKarpinski wrote:
         | > I am absolutely flabbergasted at the fact that Chrome
         | extension security is the way it is, considering how much
         | Google spends to keep chrome secure.
         | 
         | It's crazy and it's not even a "Google Scale" problem. There
         | are only around 2,000 extensions that are popular (100k+ users)
         | and the co-ordinated malicious activity is super blatant.
         | 
         | > Additionally, are we even able to review the source code of
         | extensions if they are not open source?
         | 
         | Yes and you can even do this without installing the code by
         | downloading the zip file (that contains the extension code) by
         | using the extensionId + a get request (or using a browser)
        
         | zb3 wrote:
         | > This goes to show even the most cautious and conscientious of
         | users can get caught out by their extension changing hands
         | 
         | That's why on chromium I only install extensions that have
         | their source on GitHub, as unpacked extensions.
        
         | throwaway48476 wrote:
         | Googles ad business is pop-ups and fake download buttons. What
         | makes you think they care about user security vs making money?
        
           | rKarpinski wrote:
           | They care about making money, but malicious extensions:
           | damage the Google/Chrome brand, often are directly distorting
           | the search experience and it opens them up to long tail
           | liability (think Cambridge Analytica).
           | 
           | The problem is the organization isn't set up to promote
           | people for proactively managing these risks. Similar to why
           | Twitter never got rid of the bots
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-30 23:01 UTC)