[HN Gopher] Strava was used to locate the most powerful people
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       Strava was used to locate the most powerful people
        
       Author : kawera
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2024-10-29 20:08 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | abetusk wrote:
       | Strava is a fitness app. So, apprently, the security detachment
       | of political figures tends to use the app, presumably because
       | they're into fitness and keep in shape, and their location can be
       | tracked through the app.
       | 
       | As the security detachment tend to travel with the people they
       | protect, political leaders locations can be inferred.
       | 
       | The article talks about body guards not being allowed to use
       | social media/apps while on the job, they allow for provisions on
       | use when not on active duty. So, I guess, the guards get a day
       | off, use the app, wherever they are, broadcasting their location.
       | 
       | Crazy stuff.
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Yeah, the targetting isn't that difficult, I guess. If you know
         | crown prince Akeem Joffer was in New York 5 days ago, and is in
         | Paris 3 days ago, you can probably diligently query Strava
         | users who weren't in New York for a long time but showed up 5
         | days ago, and see if they showed up in Paris 3 days ago, and
         | boom, you've found a member of his entourage.
         | 
         | Even if they use the anonymizing feature that masks their
         | start/end points, if you find a few other members, you could be
         | able to triangulate a big hotel near them and guess that that's
         | where the crown prince stayed... and the next time you hear
         | he's coming to NY/Paris, you have this information.
        
         | kkielhofner wrote:
         | Shouldn't be much of a surprise, this made news back in 2018
         | when the same was realized with soldiers and secret military
         | bases:
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/28/fitness-tracki...
        
       | mandevil wrote:
       | Cell phone tracking is better at surveillance than the best stuff
       | the military has.
       | 
       | https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/02/22/...
       | has a fun story about a time at Fort Irwin (US Army laser tag in
       | the desert) one side couldn't figure out how an attack helicopter
       | got through their defenses, until they did some queries on a
       | commercial cell phone tracking database and found the cellphone
       | moving across the desert at 120mph. Hole identified, plugged for
       | the next round.
       | 
       | And also talks about how the Ukrainians and Russians are having a
       | great deal of trouble with cell phone OPSEC even after years of
       | shooting war.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | Probably not better than the best stuff the military has...
         | Still really good, mind.
         | 
         | And, yeah, unintended uses are usually prime locations for
         | security breaches. For a long time (maybe still?) metadata on
         | pictures that people post would reveal far more than people
         | meant. Thumbnails of cropped pictures, even.
        
           | FactKnower69 wrote:
           | >Probably not better than the best stuff the military has...
           | 
           | Military tech is always a decade ahead of civilian, that's
           | why the US has easily won every armed conflict they've
           | entered into in the past 50 years
        
             | chatmasta wrote:
             | I'm not sure this has been true since the advent of the
             | internet. I don't believe there's an entire shadow sphere
             | of academia that is decades ahead of what's openly
             | published.
             | 
             | For nuclear energy, this might be true. But for nearly any
             | other topic I'm very skeptical.
        
             | paganel wrote:
             | > has easily won every armed conflict they've entered into
             | in the past 50 years
             | 
             | That's just false. Ok, maybe you don't count Vietnam,
             | because the US "entered" there in the '60s, but Afghanistan
             | was a sure loss and I'd say the same for Iraq (seeing how
             | it's now in Iran's sphere of influence, which it wasn't
             | under Saddam). Yes, they might have won some tactical
             | battles, most probably all of them, come to think of it,
             | but the wars themselves were lost.
        
               | magicalhippo wrote:
               | > That's just false.
               | 
               | Read like sarcasm to me.
        
             | JohnMakin wrote:
             | I know for a fact that swaths of critical military
             | infrastructure sit in AWS, so I personally doubt this is
             | true.
        
             | beAbU wrote:
             | Have they though?
        
         | jklinger410 wrote:
         | Cell phone tracking _is_ what the military has.
         | 
         | Seeing through walls with WiFi is better. Or slurping up the
         | main pipes and decrypting it. Which they also have.
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | An old coworker used to work on what is basically a Stingray
         | for air platforms with some sort of directional finding
         | capability. Presumably, you'd strap it to a drone and fly it
         | over villages where you suspect bad guys are. Do this every few
         | days and in multiple locations and you'd establish patterns of
         | movements and links between networks of people.
        
       | mikeryan wrote:
       | Along these lines some cyclists have had their gear stolen by
       | thieves who figured out where they live from Strava data.
       | 
       | They have a feature to block part of your route when near your
       | home but some folks aren't aware of it (or learn the hard way)
        
         | nickff wrote:
         | That feature is fairly recent, and I believe it is now enabled
         | by default.
        
           | hondo77 wrote:
           | If by "is fairly recent" you mean "has been around for over
           | six years", yes.
        
       | slibhb wrote:
       | Was there a breach with Strava or did people simply choose to
       | publish their location publicly?
        
         | basiccalendar74 wrote:
         | not a data breach
        
         | pndy wrote:
         | They recently introduced "Athlete Intelligence" [1][2] feature
         | that wasn't received well by users so I'd guess this is a pr
         | stunt so people would forget about it
         | 
         | [1] -
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/cyrusfarivar/2024/10/12/strava-...
         | 
         | [2] - https://communityhub.strava.com/t5/strava-features-
         | chat/opt-...
        
       | sam_lowry_ wrote:
       | The problem with Strava is how invasive their location sharing
       | is.
       | 
       | One has to actively search to disable it. And the integrations
       | with Garmin Connect and the others are even worse.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | it's not "invasive", it's a location sharing app.
         | 
         | if you don't want to share your location, you probably should
         | not use location-sharing apps.
        
           | RobRivera wrote:
           | A fitness app that features location-sharing features.
           | 
           | When I think of location sharing apps, I think of garmin
           | inreachme for search amd rescue.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | What's the point of Strava? Can't people easily cheat on the
       | results to outcompete others? Like what happens if I use an
       | e-bike to beat the best times?
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | Strava is a social app with a gamification angle. I use the
         | social to share my rides (only) with people who follow me and
         | to view people I follow to get inspired.
         | 
         | I also use the gamification to compete - but really only
         | against myself.
        
         | jerlam wrote:
         | There is no reward for getting the best time. Also, the people
         | that you beat are extremely motivated to investigate and flag
         | your activity; it will look pretty obvious that it was ridden
         | on an e-bike due to incorrect / missing data like heart rate
         | and wattage.
         | 
         | I have the record on a short inconsequential running course
         | near me. I occasionally get a notification that someone beat my
         | record and I am forced to look at it; it is always someone on a
         | bike or car, and I flag it and it eventually goes away. Also,
         | my own record activity has been flagged multiple times despite
         | it only being slightly faster than the second place finisher -
         | I no longer bother trying to contest it. The joke is on the
         | flagger since I have run the exact same record time, several
         | times, so I still have the course record.
        
           | bigiain wrote:
           | Not everyone is as chill about that as you.
           | 
           | https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/06/20/a-quanti.
           | ..
        
         | mikeryan wrote:
         | The vast majority of Strava users are only competing with
         | themselves or, at best, to be atop a daily leaderboard for a
         | somewhat popular segment.
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | It's fun. Don't take the leaderboards too seriously. The kind
         | of people that would care about high placement at any cost tend
         | not to be the kind of people who care about strava. (mostly)
         | 
         | People that can legitimately get a KOM on a segment tend to be
         | known in a local community. If someone new shows up at #1, it's
         | pretty obvious looking at their workout if its legit or not to
         | someone familiar with the sport.
         | 
         | What's the point of wikipedia? Can't people just easily publish
         | fake information? Like what happens if I make an article about
         | myself?
         | 
         | It's pretty much a solved problem.
        
         | Beretta_Vexee wrote:
         | The cycling leaderboard around where I live are full of
         | professional cyclists capable of overtaking an e-bike while
         | remaining in zone 2. People don't use Strava in the hope of
         | getting a good place on the board but to compare themselves
         | with their friends, club members and the pros.To follow their
         | own development and that of their friends, to discover new
         | paths, new events, and so on.
         | 
         | Above all, it's a social network based around sport. No baby
         | photos, no politics, just people happily practising their sport
         | - it's the anti-Tweeter and it's great.
        
       | netsharc wrote:
       | In video form (the Guardian article talks about a Le Monde
       | investigation):
       | 
       | - Pt 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eQKnV0zsMc
       | 
       | - Pt 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX7f1PwXEWg
        
         | homarp wrote:
         | https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/10/29/p...
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | Zelensky has suddenly perked up...
           | 
           | The 2nd video focuses on the US Secret Service, finding 26
           | profiles of Biden's protection (and 100+ users who were
           | geolocated inside the S.S. training facility). During the
           | credits of that video, a journalist says, "Despite our
           | warning about this issue to the US authorities, 14 of the 26
           | profiles are still public."
        
       | r00fus wrote:
       | This is why I only use Strava to share with my followers.
       | 
       | Yes, it's an extra step after my workout to edit, add pics if
       | any, choose my activity level if I was too lazy to put on my HR
       | monitor, and then only post to my followers.
       | 
       | Yes, this means I get less likes and can't participate in
       | challenges etc. But it's really about sharing with my colleagues
       | and friends so they can motivate me for my next ride.
        
         | marcellus23 wrote:
         | You can set your activities to be private by default, you don't
         | need to change it for every activity individually after you
         | upload it.
        
           | r00fus wrote:
           | Yes, mine are. I explicitly share some activities.
        
         | zardo wrote:
         | > This is why I only use Strava to share with my followers.
         | 
         | You travel with one of the most powerful people in the world?
        
         | tonymet wrote:
         | I wouldn't trust their security restrictions. Their API and
         | authentication is primitive. For a while I ran a basic bot to
         | automate data extraction. Their security is 20+ years behind
         | other social networks .
         | 
         | You likely have bot followers and API calls that can read your
         | latest activity GPX data
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | Facebook is barely 20 years old. No active social network is
           | "20+ years" advanced of any other, because it's longer than
           | their entire history.
        
         | soco wrote:
         | It's not clear to me whether the location was made using the
         | public, as in shared, information, or information set as
         | private. So did they masquerade as followers, or hacked the
         | system?
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | You're a bodyguard for a head of state? Probably no one cares
         | about your location.
        
       | OgsyedIE wrote:
       | The simplest solution to this is bureaucratic. Establish an app
       | approval cybersecurity office within some agency and have the
       | office make two lists: apps that have specific security
       | configurations that need to be enabled and apps that are outright
       | banned.
       | 
       | Then you just make compliance with the lists necessary for
       | certain security clearances.
        
         | Muromec wrote:
         | Nononon, you make one list:
         | 
         | - apps that are allowed to be installed, pinned by version with
         | a person responsible for monitoring them
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Strava has suffered from this and had known attacks for 10+ years
       | now. There was a famous case around Colorado of a mistaken
       | doxxing attack driven by Reddit. Due to mistaken identity,
       | attackers pursued an innocent victim using their Strava account.
       | The Strava location was the cause of both the mistaken identity
       | case and abused to find and dox the victim.
       | 
       | Strava's anonymization algorithm (the bubble feature) is
       | primitive and trivially de-anonymized with basic triangulation.
       | 
       | The company has never adequately responded to privacy concerns
       | despite many abuse cases.
        
         | paganel wrote:
         | People should just stop using Strava, or at least stop making
         | their Strava data public to the world (not sure if that's an
         | option cause I've never used that app). They should just
         | run/cycle, whatever, forget about gps.
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | > not sure if that's an option cause I've never used that app
           | 
           | You can make your account private, or individual activities
           | private (including by default).
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | > Strava's anonymization algorithm (the bubble feature) is
         | primitive and trivially de-anonymized with basic triangulation.
         | 
         | That is not true. It picks a single random centroid _near_ your
         | privacy location and does the privacy feature based on that.
         | Triangulation finds the random centroid, which is crucially
         | _not_ your hidden location.
        
       | TrevorJ wrote:
       | Not sure if the format for this article is standard these days,
       | but oh man do I hate it.
        
         | davidsawyer wrote:
         | Reads like a remix of how Axios articles are.
        
       | cj wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       | Strava heatmap can be used to locate military bases -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16249955 - Jan 2018 (271
       | comments)
       | 
       | Turns out soldiers enjoy tracking their runs around the base!
        
       | aynyc wrote:
       | Strava deserves all the blames it get, but don't you need some
       | serious skills to find out who are the agents guarding
       | Biden/Harris/Trump? I mean, if you can literally track down the
       | names of Secret Service agents guarding VIPs, then you can
       | probably easily track them with other means (phone for example)
       | no?
       | 
       | Speaking out of most likely ignorance of Secret Service, I was in
       | the US Marines. I dealt with marine snipers a few times during
       | training exercises, we were mainly serve as security protections.
       | I've seen them train, shoot and handle combat scenarios. If any
       | of those marine snipers want to take shot at a VIP, I can't
       | imagine Secret Service will be able to do anything to stop it.
       | Some of the snipers are putting rounds into a postal stamp at
       | 1,000 yard / 900 meters.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | > Strava deserves all the blames it get
         | 
         | Not sure why Strava deserves any blame here. It's explicitly a
         | social network for sharing your location and other training
         | data. If you use it and share your location, that's it
         | functioning exactly as designed.
        
           | MR_Bulldops wrote:
           | Strava has (rightfully) received no blame, so they were
           | accidentally right!
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | It's pretty clear that at least some users in this thread
             | blame Strava for some things.
        
       | kjrfghslkdjfl wrote:
       | FitoTrack.
       | 
       | That's all I have to say about this.
        
         | harry8 wrote:
         | I also endorse FitoTrack on droid as a user.
         | 
         | Along with Out-Run on iphone.
         | 
         | Both work well and are pleasant to use. Record your exercise
         | for yourself with no cloud.
        
       | TheRealPomax wrote:
       | I guess strava users didn't learn from the first time.
        
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