[HN Gopher] PhD student finds lost city in Mexico jungle
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       PhD student finds lost city in Mexico jungle
        
       Author : janpot
       Score  : 96 points
       Date   : 2024-10-29 19:04 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | OgsyedIE wrote:
       | This link: https://i.redd.it/gm8273jvjrk71.jpg is an map
       | (outdated though, it dates to 2019 AFAIK) of how much of the
       | Earth's surface has been mapped by google street view.
       | 
       | Is there a similar map product that shows how much of the Earth's
       | surface has yet to be surveyed with lidar (or a suitable
       | equivalent)? I would assume that areas with zero vegetation can
       | be covered by satellite imagery but it is possible that the
       | resolution is poor (for example, SRTM had a 30m resolution).
        
         | ipdashc wrote:
         | That map, while interesting, seems entirely subjective - the
         | whole appearance of the map can be determined by the thickness
         | that you set the street view lines to, no?
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | I guess you just lose the ability to distinguish between
           | areas past some density, right? What would be a good way to
           | improve it... maybe apply some filter, Lanzcos or whatever?
        
       | columbus567 wrote:
       | Imagine putting that on a resume for a postdoc
       | 
       | - discovered lost Mayan city
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | I was going to say: that's a thesis result sorted - check.
        
         | potato3732842 wrote:
         | Flock will hire him as a consultant when they develop their
         | upcoming "fine people for unpermitted garden sheds" service.
         | 
         | (joking, but sadly not joking)
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Cities and counties have been using traditional aerial
           | photography for that for a long time now.
        
             | vips7L wrote:
             | I have friends who work in InsuranceTech and they use
             | satellite images of houses when someone apply for home
             | owners insurance. They've said it flags people with
             | trampolines all the time.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | My insurance company asked about that when I got the
               | policy, I said Yes we have one and it was not an issue.
               | Perhaps they are charging me a higher premium, but not
               | enough that I noticed.
               | 
               | Though we no longer have it, so perhaps I should mention
               | that next time I meet with my agent.
        
         | 77pt77 wrote:
         | It's going to get as common as
         | 
         | > New exoplanet discovered
         | 
         | Very soon.
         | 
         | And therefore unworthy of barely being mentioned.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I was imagining what Indiana Jones would look like in this day
         | and age.
        
       | advisedwang wrote:
       | Once again, the sensationalized "discovery" of a "lost" by people
       | that fly over with lidar and never talk to the locals.
       | 
       | https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/did-recent-expedit...
        
         | OgsyedIE wrote:
         | What is the proportion of villages where surveying the locals
         | will lead to documenting an abandoned city that is otherwise
         | only known to the locals?
         | 
         | If only 2% of villages have an undiscovered profitable
         | heritage, then 98% of surveys will show no results, which makes
         | it difficult for anthropological surveys to compete with lidar
         | for grant funding, especially when lidar is still new enough to
         | seem "sexy" and "sci-fi".
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Throw in some AI processing of the LIDAR data, and watch
           | those funding dollars flood in!!
        
         | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
         | Can the locals draw a map of these lost cities? Or are they
         | just aware that there are many lost cities, but without knowing
         | exactly where they are?
         | 
         | And for that matter, if the locals did know the specifics but
         | weren't spreading that knowledge, then it still can constitute
         | a discovery.
         | 
         | "Discovery" can mean revealing knowledge that was previously
         | known to insiders, eg. if I say "I discovered an underground
         | smuggling ring and reported it to the police", you probably
         | wouldn't argue that "you didn't discover anything; the
         | smugglers already knew about it".
        
           | romwell wrote:
           | _> "Discovery" can mean revealing knowledge that was
           | previously known to insiders, eg. if I say "I discovered an
           | underground smuggling ring and reported it to the police",
           | you probably wouldn't argue that "you didn't discover
           | anything; the smugglers already knew about it"._
           | 
           | Just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying this point.
           | 
           | Newspaper Headline:
           | 
           |  _Discoverer of Underground Smuggling Ring Proven a Fraud:
           | Ring Leader Says He Discovered It First "_
        
         | jklinger410 wrote:
         | Wow archaeology should be rife for disruption if you can just
         | go around and ask locals. Seems like anyone with gumption could
         | be the next great scientist.
         | 
         | Or maybe one of those locals could be. I wonder what stops
         | them?
        
           | 77pt77 wrote:
           | Locals lie.
           | 
           | Like a lot!
           | 
           | They even pretend to be able to read ancient
           | languages/scripts when in reality that are just making stuff
           | up.
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | This, but unironically.
           | 
           | > _Or maybe one of those locals could be. I wonder what stops
           | them?_
           | 
           | They're living their lives, rarely becoming academics in the
           | relevant field, assuming that local rock ruin is known to
           | somebody outside of their community, or if not, then assuming
           | nobody cares anyway.
           | 
           | You can probably find a lot of undocumented ancient stuff by
           | asking shepherds in areas known to be territory of ancient
           | poorly documented civilizations.
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | "Discovery" probably isn't the right word, but the important
         | part isn't knowing that something is there, the important part
         | is telling the rest of the world about it.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | I appreciate the link but your comment isn't in keeping with
         | the site guidelines, which include:
         | 
         | " _Don 't be snarky._"
         | 
         | " _Please don 't post shallow dismissals, especially of other
         | people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something._"
         | 
         | If you wouldn't mind reviewing
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the
         | intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | Lidar has been finding a lot of lost cities.
       | 
       | Not discounting this finding. It's just becoming more common.
        
         | HenryBemis wrote:
         | I've been watching the Ancient Apocalypse (S2) on Netflix and I
         | had similar thoughts on discoveries. With drones and lidars we
         | can discover so many of these villages/towns/cities, but the
         | challenge would be to actually send boots on the ground and
         | excavate into getting meaningful data/findings.
         | 
         | At the same time, the baddies (grave robbers, looters, etc.)
         | can use the same tech and beat us to the game.
        
           | alberth wrote:
           | National Geographic even created a TV show 5-years ago
           | specifically on this topic.
           | 
           | "Lost Cities with Albert Lin" (2019)
           | 
           | It's an 11-episode show where they use Lidar in each episode
           | to find lost cities.
           | 
           | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10366494/
        
           | Hikikomori wrote:
           | That drivel got a second season?
        
       | dylan604 wrote:
       | "I was on something like page 16 of Google search "
       | 
       | whoa, I had no idea there were that many pages in a google
       | search. that's some serious googlefu to get that kind of a
       | result. I guess it definitely says something about the researcher
       | too to continue on that deep.
       | 
       | I'm expecting that comment to have been hyperbolic though
        
         | jeffwask wrote:
         | The first 10 are all SEO and AI junk now.
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | > "I was on something like page 16 of Google search and found a
       | laser survey done by a Mexican organisation for environmental
       | monitoring," explains Luke Auld-Thomas, a PhD student at Tulane
       | university in the US.
       | 
       | Oh, I thought he's just gotten lost deep in the jungle
       | (presumably looking for the free pizza that was left over from
       | the undergrads' seminar). But wow, 16'th page of Google, that
       | really is uncharted territory.
        
         | kyle-rb wrote:
         | We shouldn't be rushing to explore space when we haven't even
         | explored our own planet's ocean, or page 16 of google search
         | results.
        
           | melling wrote:
           | At last count, we had 8 billion people on the planet. I think
           | it'll be fine if some people do space while others work on
           | oceans.
           | 
           | Must admit this is the most overused excuse I've ever heard
           | in my life.
           | 
           | "Hey, let's all work on this one problem and ignore every
           | other problem."
        
           | notahacker wrote:
           | Page 16 of Google search results: the final frontier.
           | 
           |  _starts sketching out a funding application for a mission to
           | explore page 17_
        
         | jdthedisciple wrote:
         | One wonders what other mysteries are waiting to be uncovered
         | amid the dark depths of Google search results ...
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Since the 16th page of a google search is usually the end of
         | the third repetition of the first four pages of a google
         | search, he'd probably already missed it three times...
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | I love the idea that there might have been fully technological
       | civilizations of humans on earth that have been totally lost to
       | time. I know that the Maya were not that, but go back 10,000
       | years maybe, who knows?
        
         | matthewdgreen wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silurian_hypothesis
        
         | superxpro12 wrote:
         | Is "love" really the right descriptor here? The implications
         | are truly depressing.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Yes, it would be a sobering reminder on how essentially
           | powerless we are in the face of global calamity. You see this
           | recognized in religions and in pre-technological societies,
           | but few of us in the modern era do.
        
           | ks2048 wrote:
           | No need to get depressed about an idea with zero evidence.
        
           | keybored wrote:
           | Considering what terrible stewards of the the Earth and of
           | each other we are, _depressing_ is also a wrong descriptor.
        
         | melling wrote:
         | That means we squandered almost 10,000 years of human history
         | before humans became an advanced civilization. We could have
         | invented flight, discovered antibiotics, etc five thousand
         | years ago.
        
         | spaceman_2020 wrote:
         | The oldest city that we've found to date was buried -
         | intentionally - under a mound of earth.
         | 
         | There could be dozens of these sites
         | 
         | Lidar the planet
        
         | jfactorial wrote:
         | Dinosaurs lived on Earth for about 100,000,000 years, at least
         | 50 times as long as our species. Perhaps some dinosaurs were
         | the most advanced species our planet has ever seen.
         | 
         | https://pbfcomics.com/comics/dinosaur-meteors/
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | Sadly there's basically zero chance of that. We don't find
           | dinosaur pottery sherds or cola bottles embedded in
           | sedimentary rock anywhere.
        
             | digging wrote:
             | They lived so long ago, my understanding is such artifacts
             | would be extremely unlikely to survive. We also haven't
             | looked in that many places at that depth.
             | 
             | I mean it's still quite unlikely though.
        
               | Panzer04 wrote:
               | If bones survived, some advanced remnants would also
               | survive, I would expect.
        
             | Rebelgecko wrote:
             | I read a stat (maybe not true?) that we've only found
             | around one dinosaur fossil for each 10,000 years that they
             | existed. Maybe we just haven't found peak dino society yet-
             | 
             | if you broke humanity down into one archaeological find per
             | 10k years you probably wouldn't think we had much of a
             | society either.
        
         | janalsncm wrote:
         | Maybe not full-blown technology, but a lot of New World
         | philosophy, art, and mathematics, and history were destroyed by
         | the Europeans or otherwise lost to time. Maybe even medicines
         | that we don't know about. They didn't have electric computers
         | though.
        
         | shrubble wrote:
         | The conquistadors praised Tenochtitlan, viewing it as an
         | advanced city equal to the Spanish cities of the time.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | The floating city would've almost certainly been a marvel in
           | its own right.
        
       | Oarch wrote:
       | _Sighs and resets the 'Days since we discovered a lost city using
       | LiDAR' counter back to zero._
        
       | bkandel wrote:
       | How is this by accident? He was specifically looking for datasets
       | for this purpose and found a good one, then loaded it into a
       | program to find man-made structures.
        
         | baq wrote:
         | Page 16 of google.
         | 
         | He might have been the first person to see those datasets
         | except the ones who published them.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, we've taken the accident out of the title above.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" It is just 15 minutes hike from a major road near Xpujil where
       | mostly Maya people now live."_
       | 
       | And nobody sent a drone yet? The BBC has a jungle drone team.[1]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3P6MX7bbl0Y5SSnvJW...
        
         | muststopmyths wrote:
         | It won't be visible to the naked eye. Maya ruins like these are
         | covered by centuries of overgrowth. Lidar scans can spot shapes
         | buried under this overgrowth, but from the air it'll at best
         | look like random hills of dirt.
         | 
         | Maybe if there are structures comparable to Calakmul (which is
         | close to Xpujil), you'll see some rocks on a tall hill.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | We can look forward to the Instagram video, "With machete and
           | weed-whacker".
        
       | ghssds wrote:
       | How many cities are lost every year? Can finding those cities
       | help alleviate the housing crisis? Won't the inhabitants of those
       | cities complain about disrupted postal service? I have so many
       | questions!
        
       | chrisbrandow wrote:
       | for a $500 plane ticket and a 4 hour drive, seems like someone
       | has surely gone there by now, just to ground-truth this.
       | Otherwise, seems like a fun (with plenty of risks, obvs) way of
       | being "the first" to lay eyes on this.
        
         | whartung wrote:
         | I'm guessing you've never actually been in "the jungle". It's
         | not hospitable at all.
         | 
         | The other thing is that that area of Mexico is just teeming
         | with this stuff. There's just an untold boatload of "lost
         | cities" in there. They can't dig and map the stuff they are
         | working on, much less any of the numerous finds that have been
         | made in the past 10-20 years.
         | 
         | "Oh, yea, yay, another lost Mayan city. Woo hoo."
        
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