[HN Gopher] Show HN: I built an app to use a QR code as my doorbell
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       Show HN: I built an app to use a QR code as my doorbell
        
       I didn't have a doorbell before (multiple reasons) and my house
       feels unwelcoming without one. So I built a doorbell app that uses
       a QR code - visitors scan the QR code to ring the doorbell and I
       get notified on my phone.  Here is an example of the QR code I have
       on my door. You can scan it and say hello:
       https://www.thebacklog.net/img/2024/10/show-hn.png  This was also a
       great excuse to build my first app for Android and iPhone.  I'd
       love to get some feedback before I spend more time polishing the
       app. Please try it out and feel free to ask me any questions! No
       logins or accounts needed.
        
       Author : dirkc
       Score  : 105 points
       Date   : 2024-10-29 08:03 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dingdongdoorbell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dingdongdoorbell.com)
        
       | 123pie123 wrote:
       | >Having a doorbell does not need to be complicated.
       | 
       | I'm not sure if your and my definition of complicated are the
       | same in this case
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | True. What are you comparing it to if I may ask - a traditional
         | doorbell or a modern smart doorbell?
        
           | block_dagger wrote:
           | A knock.
        
           | themoonisachees wrote:
           | The user interface for a doorbell (smart or dumb) is a a
           | single button that you press, with your finger. Compare that
           | to take out my phone, find a way to scan a qr code, scan it,
           | install an app (?!?!), press a single button with my finger,
           | on the app.
           | 
           | This is even supposing that I want to do that to begin with
           | (I know for sure delivery drivers are never doing it).
           | 
           | Good job on the project, I really mean it. It doesn't matter
           | what you do, it matters that you've achieved it and for that,
           | congrats. But as a practical semi-object, this has to be one
           | of the worst ways possible to solve the problem.
        
             | dirkc wrote:
             | That is a valid point. The visitor does not need to install
             | the app, but it's still more complicated than pushing a
             | button.
             | 
             | From the owner's perspective I imagine it's at least a
             | little bit simpler to install an app and put up a QR code.
             | Although if they have to print it out themselves I guess
             | all bets are off.
             | 
             | > Good job on the project, I really mean it. It doesn't
             | matter what you do, it matters that you've achieved it and
             | for that, congrats. But as a practical semi-object, this
             | has to be one of the worst ways possible to solve the
             | problem.
             | 
             | Thank you, those are kind words. I doubt that this is the
             | worst possible way in every context, but working towards
             | better solutions is why we share stuff and ask/give
             | feedback :)
        
           | sebtron wrote:
           | Just curious, what does a "modern smart doorbell" do exactly?
        
             | nkozyra wrote:
             | Typically transmit video to phones, which is also pretty
             | trivial with about $20 of hardware.
        
           | thomascountz wrote:
           | A text or call on said smartphone.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | That was my exact first thought. That seems to be _a lot_ more
         | complicated than a traditional bell, except for the fact that
         | you don 't have to run two wires there (a thing most places
         | will already have there).
         | 
         | I mean this could be a okay solution for a very certain set of
         | circumstances, but making your visitors scan a QR-Code seems
         | like bad UX, why not have them fill out a form while you're at
         | it?
         | 
         | If I had a situation where it was impossible to run wires
         | through the wall I'd install a old-school knocker on the door
         | and a knock sensor on the inside. UX is intuitive and the knock
         | sensor can still send me things to the phone if I like that.
        
           | gregmac wrote:
           | > If I had a situation where it was impossible to run wires
           | through the wall ...
           | 
           | Wireless doorbells can be found for tens of dollars. You can
           | get them with multiple receivers you can place around your
           | house.
        
       | iamjfu wrote:
       | Nice work!
       | 
       | I wonder if instead of complexity you should call this a cheaper
       | alternative to a smart doorbell?
       | 
       | I don't think many of us think of smart doorbells as particularly
       | complex. However, they could be out of budget for many.
       | 
       | Alternatively, you could market as privacy respecting, where a
       | smart doorbell is always recording.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thank you! Those are good points. I'm still trying to figure
         | out what the differentiating factor is for other people. For me
         | it's the ease with which I can replace a QR and receiving a
         | notification even when I'm not home
        
       | fph wrote:
       | Is there a captcha, or can people ding-dong-ditch you from a
       | continent apart?
        
         | mingusrude wrote:
         | This is a good feature enhancement, to check the location of
         | the ding-donging party.
        
           | nkozyra wrote:
           | Though since it's trivial spoofed I don't know why you'd
           | bother.
           | 
           | Something like this really needs a periodic refresh or some
           | proximity proof like NFC.
        
             | swah wrote:
             | At this point just knock!
        
               | Towaway69 wrote:
               | Crazy the doorbell replaced knocking and now the internet
               | is replacing doorbells.
               | 
               | Who invented doors? Perhaps that's where it all went
               | wrong. /s
        
               | nkozyra wrote:
               | We're willing to offer a $7M seed at a $50M valuation for
               | your knock technology.
        
               | Dilettante_ wrote:
               | Something something Knockchain
        
               | dirkc wrote:
               | Only if you knock technology uses AI :)
        
               | nkozyra wrote:
               | And only if by "uses AI" you say it has AI inside the
               | hardware but really it's a network-enabled thin client
               | that calls out to a server wrapping GPT calls.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Right now you can ding dong ditch if you have the code. As
         | others mentioned using location could help. Or maybe a one-
         | time-pin?
        
           | filcuk wrote:
           | Honestly, for serious use - yes, but there is a fun aspect to
           | the app. Have a friend or remote partner print the code, and
           | ring a doorbell when they want to get in touch, or just as a
           | reminder they'rethinking of you? Like a message, but without
           | the 'baggage'
        
             | beAbU wrote:
             | On early-days facebook you could "poke" someone. Like a
             | virtual empty message, it had no meaning or "baggage"
             | linked to it, other than that the poke-er was thinking of
             | the poke-ee at that moment.
             | 
             | About a decade before that, we kids basically only had SMS
             | text messaging, and it was very expensive in my country,
             | mobile data doubly so. There was however a "please call me"
             | feature, where you could send a "please call me" text to a
             | friend free of charge. We used to send please call me's to
             | one another all the time, not because we wanted to be
             | called, it was just the cheapest form of digital
             | communication.
        
               | ultrafez wrote:
               | The poke feature is back! It was re-introduced this year
               | some time.
        
       | danhau wrote:
       | I love this sort of thing, very cool idea. I think it makes for a
       | great weekend project to implement something similar yourself.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Agreed, if you're into hacking your own doorbell, there are a
         | lot of really cool examples online of projects people have
         | done.
         | 
         | I'm considering setting up an ESP to integrate my old bell's
         | chime with the QR code.
        
       | dghf wrote:
       | This does seem like it might be prone to pranksters copying a
       | particular doorbell code and putting it outside someone else's
       | house (or several houses), distributing fake flyers that include
       | it ("Scan here for a chance to win a cruise!"), and so forth.
        
         | nkozyra wrote:
         | My immediate thought was: get an esp32 with an eink display and
         | regenerate the code every ten minutes, but of course we've left
         | the extremely easy realm quickly.
         | 
         | But I agree I wouldn't want a static QR code linked to anything
         | that could bother me.
        
           | atoav wrote:
           | Then, why not hook up a button to said ESP32 and improve the
           | UX by multiple magnitudes?
           | 
           | Oh.
        
             | cinntaile wrote:
             | I know I know. The QR link can resolve to a captcha/puzzle
             | that needs to be solved before it actually rings!
        
               | nkozyra wrote:
               | Also we'll serve ads on it.
        
               | kfarr wrote:
               | Choose the quarter pounder in all of the photos...
        
               | dirkc wrote:
               | It will use a LLM to interview you and decide if you are
               | allowed to ring the doorbell
        
               | ibaikov wrote:
               | But LLMs cost money so it'll need a monthly subscription
               | with tiers (for visitors too!)
        
               | kfarr wrote:
               | Please insert 25 cents to continue this call
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Choose the quarter pounder with e.coli in all of the
               | photos would be beneficial to the vendor as well
        
           | EGreg wrote:
           | I build apps for a living, that solve real-world problems.
           | 
           | Static QR codes make no sense by themselves because they can
           | be replayed. Same goes for "pay with your face" biometrics.
           | The person is supposed to confirm something on THEIR OWN
           | phone, to authenticate themselves and their location. Then
           | the QR code to scan can indeed be static. Since the person's
           | phone has to have the Internet anyway to make requests,
           | simply change the interface on the PHONE.
           | 
           | QR codes printed on a flyer or wherever are meant to "start
           | the conversation". The authentication can happen right after.
           | But keep in mind that, by themselves, they are not enough.
           | For example, if you're trying to do a ticketing system or
           | attendance where people scan a QR code, they can just forward
           | it to their friend. Better to have them PRESENT a QR code to
           | be scanned.
           | 
           | Having said that, WiFi access points and captive portals are
           | better. Because once you authenticate, the next time is
           | seamless. They can be used to take attendance in classrooms,
           | and much more, seamlessly. (Except if it a person's phone is
           | off. So then they have to come up and manually register, or
           | you have to find that out by having a challenge during class
           | that actually requires phones.)
           | 
           | ATTENDANCE ONLINE:
           | 
           | While I'm at it, I will mention one more thing.
           | Authentication and "presence" can also include face
           | recognition and eye tracking. There are lots of models for
           | Tensorflow's JS port, such as "blazeface", that can do it in
           | real-time. You can present a computer interface on your own
           | wall and the person is authenticated with their face. But
           | remember, once again, that this should only be used for _your
           | own_ software within _your own_ organization, which you
           | presumably trust. Because it can be replayed and spoofed by
           | whoever has access to the back-end.
           | 
           | Anyway, for remote learning, this becomes really useful
           | because (e.g. during the pandemic) the teacher can have an
           | on/off signal which M of N students are paying attention, and
           | which are drifting off or walked away from the computer --
           | all WITHOUT seeing their video feeds. So it enhances privacy.
           | 
           | We've built a simple tool where students can open a
           | background tab for instance, which watches where their
           | attention is, while they use whatever sites. The tool is
           | deployed by the teachers.
           | 
           | If you want to prevent tech-savvy students from spoofing this
           | attendance, you have to ship some of the code, signed with
           | your own HMAC or private key, every time, and do it in a
           | third-party iframe so their JS code can't simply override it.
           | They would have to rewrite the code in the time that the
           | secret key for the HMAC changes (every 10 minutes). For that,
           | they'd need to install their own user-agent, and very few
           | students are going to go that far. But yes, if people do have
           | their own user-agent, then they can pretty much do any kind
           | of replay attack for attendance. Something to keep in mind.
           | 
           | The only way I have found, to do attendance reliably online,
           | in the presence of adversaries capable of wielding their own
           | user-agents _and_ rewriting code on the fly, is to have them
           | join a videoconference and show a signed QR code on their
           | phone while also completing challenges with their face. The
           | private key might have to come from an agency that saw them
           | arrive in person. The only way to defeat this is to corrupt
           | the agency, making it give out a lot of private keys, and
           | then deploy deepfake video avatars at scale (the kind DARPA
           | wants to do) to complete all challenges. At that point, they
           | AI is probably good enough that you prefer the bots to humans
           | anyway LOL.
           | 
           | SYBIL ATTACKS
           | 
           | I will also say a word about sybil attacks. The best ways I
           | have found to prevent them are imposing a cost (but those who
           | can recoup the cost will still do it) or grandfathered
           | accounts. The problem with grandfathered accounts is that
           | people can deploy software to automate existing accounts, and
           | do it occassionally enough to avoid detection. The only way
           | to prevent cheating in tests, for example, is to flip the
           | classroom and have the students take the test in class. They
           | can do it on their phones, as long as their phones notify the
           | teacher when they put the app in the background. (However,
           | there are still problems with phones that allow multiple apps
           | side by side and don't tell the apps.)
           | 
           | In case you are wondering, we are building some of this stuff
           | on https://teaching.app
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >all WITHOUT seeing their video feeds. So it enhances
             | privacy.
             | 
             | I'm sure your app doesn't actually stream the video back to
             | the server, but how do I as the user, know that? All I can
             | see is you requesting camera permissions and you saying
             | "trust us bro" that you're not streaming the feed back to
             | your server.
        
               | EGreg wrote:
               | You can say that about literally any app or piece of
               | software, as a regular user you just "trust" WhatsApp to
               | do end-to-end encryption, or websites to not read your
               | email and try your password on other websites
               | https://xkcd.com/792/
               | 
               | Mostly, in our use case, it's because students are
               | already willing to open their camera to teachers, when
               | they demand it, and this is actually considered a more
               | effective and private "upgrade" for everyone.
        
           | saaaaaam wrote:
           | How to massively over engineer a simple doorbell!
           | 
           | I don't mean this in a mean way and realise that your comment
           | was mention the spirit of the conversation :)
        
           | barryrandall wrote:
           | You could also just use a cheap pet-compatible motion sensor
           | and sound the chime when there's motion on the porch.
        
         | middayc wrote:
         | there is probably very little cost in changing the QR code,
         | almost like changing a password in an odd case that anything
         | like this happens.
        
           | sam29681749 wrote:
           | Wouldn't you also need to reprint the barcode? Get it's
           | probably unlikely to happen, but there seems to be a lot more
           | friction than changing a password.
        
             | nkozyra wrote:
             | You could rotate them at random so you're only printing a
             | dozen or so.
             | 
             | But again, still more hassle than helpful and if you forget
             | to switch it the problem remains.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Easily pranked yes, but not that different from other cases
         | which turn out to be non-problems in daily life.
         | 
         | People could also print flyers with your phone number on them.
         | Add your email address to spam lists. Etc etc.
        
         | c22 wrote:
         | Swapping codes on two adjacent houses would be pretty amusing.
        
         | maaaaattttt wrote:
         | I think this could be solved by asking the last name of the
         | person/family you want to ring the bell for, once the QR code
         | URL is loaded. This doesn't solve the issue of: what if
         | multiple appartements want to use this solution as a doorbell?
         | Then you'd have to add the name on the QR code and it's back to
         | square one.
        
           | NicuCalcea wrote:
           | I'll be honest, if I have to scan a QR code and fill in a
           | form to let someone know I'm at their door, I'm turning
           | around and going home.
        
             | ozim wrote:
             | Not even trying to knock on the door?
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Pranking is a legitimate concern. What do you reckon the worst
         | case scenario to be and what do you reckon are reasonable
         | pranks?
        
         | 0x457 wrote:
         | Generate a new code when it happens? It's not like you have to
         | keep the same QR code for some comptibility reason.
        
       | GJim wrote:
       | "R2-D2 you know better than to trust a strange QR code".
       | 
       | Scanning QR codes outside a trusted environment (e.g. a workplace
       | stock keeping system) is asking for trouble. Security advice now
       | routinely recommends not deploying QR codes on your products, nor
       | encouraging your employees/users to scan strange codes.
       | 
       | It's like 1995 all over again.
       | 
       | EDIT: In response to doubters below
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz472gy8nd9o
       | 
       | Besides, to paraphrase Dubya: "Goatse me once, shame on...shame
       | on you. Goatse me--you can't get goastsie'd again."
        
         | echoangle wrote:
         | Why do I hear this so often? Isn't the risk exactly the same as
         | clicking random links on the internet? Do you do a background
         | check before opening an external link to a story on hacker
         | news? The risk is exactly the same as when you scan a random QR
         | code.
        
           | TrianguloY wrote:
           | Qrs may have other data, not only links, and there is always
           | the extra (but minimal) risk of a vulnerability in the qr
           | reader itself.
           | 
           | Other than that, it's the same as clicking a link on an
           | email, yes.
        
           | pacifika wrote:
           | You can hover over a link to see the destination, this isn't
           | always possible with a qr code as it depends on the client
           | app
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | How many people actually hover/long press every link before
             | clicking, especially on sites with UGC that allow for link
             | spoofing (eg. <a
             | href="http://evil.example">http://site.example</a>)? If
             | you're paranoid to do that, you can probably figure out how
             | to audit qr codes before opening them. On iOS it's trivial
             | to make one in Shortcuts. On Android, Firefox confirms the
             | link before opening.
        
               | pacifika wrote:
               | If the native tooling always confirmed a qr code then I
               | think you'd be right. Until then it's security practices
               | not paranoia.
        
             | echoangle wrote:
             | And what does that tell you? How do you detect malware from
             | the URL? Do you have a whitelist of known-good domains and
             | don't visit anything else?
        
               | pacifika wrote:
               | The http protocol uses human readable addresses for a
               | reason.
        
               | echoangle wrote:
               | Yes, to make addresses memorable, not to detect malicious
               | hosts. If I give you a random .com-domain, how do you
               | determine wether it is safe? And do you actually do it if
               | it's the link of a hacker news post, for example?
        
         | master-lincoln wrote:
         | Can you provide a source for that? I have never heard that
         | before and it seems ridiculous to me. The advice connected to
         | QR codes I suggest is to not make the reader app auto-visit
         | decoded links, but just show decoded content.
        
         | edent wrote:
         | Sorry, that's utter bobbins.
         | 
         | QR codes can contain a limited set of data. There's no
         | possibility of a buffer-overflow or malicious program.
         | 
         | Every QR reader I've seen shows you the destination before
         | taking you there.
         | 
         | It _might_ be a scam website - but that 's no different to
         | seeing an poster and manually typing in the address.
         | 
         | Yes, QR codes can contain an auto-generated email or premium
         | SMS. But they won't send automatically. The user remains in
         | control.
        
           | jy14898 wrote:
           | > QR codes can contain a limited set of data. There's no
           | possibility of a buffer-overflow or malicious program.
           | 
           | Source?
        
             | jillesvangurp wrote:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_code
        
           | gregmac wrote:
           | > It might be a scam website - but that's no different to
           | seeing an poster and manually typing in the address.
           | 
           | Disagree, because:
           | 
           | * QR codes are opaque to humans. You can't visually tell if
           | one is legit or not.
           | 
           | * QR codes often use URL shorteners, so that the URL
           | contained is just https://exam.ple/4pTF6x4M9 is not unusual.
           | 
           | Someone can replace a QR code with a sticker overlay and link
           | to a phishing site. Replacing a URL on a poster is also
           | possible, of course, but harder to make look convincing in
           | the first place and significantly simpler to detect.
        
             | edent wrote:
             | * Printed URls are also opaque. How do you know if the
             | correct website is whatever .com or whatever .org?
             | 
             | * Printed URls often contain shortened links.
             | 
             | I'd argue that most QR sticker overlays are _also_ pretty
             | inept. See a sample at https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2024/07/qr-
             | code-hijacking-attempts-...
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | The risk is exactly the same as clicking on a link on the
         | internet. There is no additional risk. You could type the link
         | in your browser manually after decoding and the exact same
         | thing would happen. That's because most QR codes are simple
         | links. The ones that aren't are things like cards, wifi
         | credentials, etc. But most of them are links. You click on them
         | by scanning them. The same mechanisms that make using the
         | internet a mostly safe experience that billions of people enjoy
         | on a daily bases, also apply to qr codes. Because it's the
         | exact same browser that opens them.
         | 
         | So, use common sense here. Links and QR codes are everywhere.
         | And people click or scan them all the time at their own
         | discretion.
         | 
         | This is not like 1995 all over again. All the same protection
         | mechanisms that we've put up since then for links also work for
         | QR codes. There's no real difference between a link I email you
         | and a QR code that you encounter in the wild. You click or scan
         | them and a browser opens and does its thing. I mention email
         | here because email clients typically don't really restrict what
         | you can do with links in them. There's a reason for that:
         | people send a lot of links via email and links are useful. So
         | the fact that some bad actors send people evil links via spam,
         | is not enough reason to disable the feature.
         | 
         | QR codes are just a way to provide links for people to "click".
         | It's not even a new way because they've been around for quite
         | long. The US and Europe are late to this party. Most of the
         | rest of the world already runs on QR codes for quite some time.
         | Especially places like China and Japan.
         | 
         | Ps. I run a company that uses QR codes a lot. They solve a lot
         | of issues for us. IMHO they are severely underused currently.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | That is a valid concern, you are not the only person to have
         | raised this.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | I unwired my doorbell and never looked back. It's been one of the
       | best decisions I've made about my house. If you get past the FOMO
       | you might love it too. Why does the world get an interrupt button
       | for your home?
        
         | sam29681749 wrote:
         | Visitors?
        
         | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
         | A doorbell is just an easier and more polite version of
         | knocking on your door. Do you also do something to prevent
         | people from knocking on your door (e.g. a pit trap in front of
         | it)?
        
           | Waterluvian wrote:
           | Yeah but there's a slide down to the ball pit.
        
             | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
             | That sounds fun. Any problems with it filling up on
             | Halloween or do you just empty it often?
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | There's a "Complaints" button that opens another trap
               | door to another ball pit. It's actually ball pits all the
               | way down (though to be perfectly honest I haven't
               | tested). What's important is that I haven't received a
               | single complaint.
        
           | ChoGGi wrote:
           | Probably the same thing I did, left the button. It's a lot
           | more peaceful not having random people bother me at home.
        
         | Dilettante_ wrote:
         | Absolutely unhinged(based)
        
       | pratibha_simone wrote:
       | I would want a NFC one tbh.
        
       | sam29681749 wrote:
       | What's the advantage of this over a traditional doorbell + a
       | phone (which everyone already has)? If I'm home, I can hear them.
       | If I'm not, they can just message/call me.
        
         | master-lincoln wrote:
         | Traditional doorbell needs an electrically powered button on
         | the exterior. Phone needs visitor to have your private contact
         | info or you would need to publicly add a note with that to your
         | door.
        
           | sam29681749 wrote:
           | If you don't want to use electricity, you can have a knock.
           | 
           | What reason would you want to be notified of unknown visitors
           | knocking on your doors when you're away? The only people I
           | can see fitting this description are delivery drivers &
           | salesmen?
           | 
           | Further, what if you're home and your phone is in another
           | room, is on silent, or is dead?
           | 
           | What is you have a spouse or housemate? Do both of you get
           | notified?
           | 
           | And there's also a subset of people who get frustrated by
           | having to use QR codes in restaurants, who I suspect would be
           | equally frustrated by this.
        
           | eesmith wrote:
           | There are battery powered remote doorbell buttons. Eg, $29 at
           | Ace Hardware, with a 100 foot range -
           | https://www.acehardware.com/departments/hardware/safety-
           | and-... .
           | 
           | Also, a _real_ traditional doorbell is mechanically coupled
           | to the bell, with no electricity at all.
        
           | ale42 wrote:
           | QR solution needs the visitor to (a) have a smartphone with
           | charged battery and (b) Internet connectivity. Quite common,
           | but wont work for everybody.
        
             | sam29681749 wrote:
             | Grandma delivering cookies is out of luck. To be fair, if
             | you don't have a phone you could just knock. But then you
             | could just knock to begin with.
        
         | wink wrote:
         | I know it's situational, but going to a party where you don't
         | have the host's number? Also in general if you want to be rung
         | at a temp. location but not hand out your phone number? (e.g
         | meetups at company premises where you only have a door bell at
         | the wrong location)
         | 
         | I wouldn't call it a real replacement, but I can see a dozen
         | uses.
        
           | hoherd wrote:
           | > going to a party where you don't have the host's number
           | 
           | What? Door bells worked before phones existed.
        
             | wink wrote:
             | See my sibling comment, not all apartments have accessible
             | door bells.
        
               | sam29681749 wrote:
               | Don't all apartments have an intercom? I suppose I just
               | assumed they did.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | Larger buildings with many units usually do have
               | intercoms with two-way audio (and sometimes one-way
               | video) and the ability for the resident to remotely
               | unlock the door. Sometimes these work via telephone or
               | Internet, so the resident does not even have to be home.
               | 
               | Smaller buildings with just a few units usually just have
               | simple dumb wired doorbells. And they are usually not
               | broken.
               | 
               | Different cities/neighborhoods have a different mix of
               | larger and smaller buildings.
               | 
               | This QR code idea is interesting, because it lets you go
               | from dumb to smart, bypassing all of the steps that would
               | normally be necessary (cost, approval, installation,
               | maintenance, etc).
               | 
               | It's not as "good" as Nest etc, but it gets you most of
               | the way there for almost none of the hassle.
               | 
               | Not for me, probably, but interesting.
        
           | sam29681749 wrote:
           | Doorbell or knocking solves this? What are the other uses you
           | can think of? Genuinely curious because I don't see them.
        
             | wink wrote:
             | I've been to several meetups here where the company has
             | larger offices in a high rise tower and e.g. the meetup is
             | on the 4th floor but the door bell rings in the 3rd floor
             | reception, and because it's after work, no one is there.
             | People arrive in a 30min window, so someone would have to
             | stand at the entrance, or put signs everywhere, or let
             | people wait. As I said, situational, but "scan code to let
             | someone's personal phone buzz and not have their personal
             | phone number posted anywhere" works as one case.
             | 
             | The other one was a party at someone's apartment and I only
             | had their IRC and twitter handle but not their phone
             | number, and they had a key pad at the entrance (long story,
             | not their fault) and I didn't have the number. And yes, I
             | tried to ping them but they seemed to ignore their phone so
             | I had to wait for other guests to arrive anyway.
             | 
             | My third example would be temporary event locations where
             | there simply is no door bell or the organizers are not
             | where it would ring and again, a phone works but it would
             | leak the caller's number and the organizer's number whereas
             | I suppose you can just uninstall the app or have different
             | URLs generated that stop buzzing after a while.
             | 
             | Situational, as I said.
        
               | sam29681749 wrote:
               | 1 & 3 seem reasonable applications for this, but I don't
               | see it as a replacement for a doorbell. 2 seems just like
               | a minor organisational blunder.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | I have a few ideas about this,
         | 
         | One thing I've found useful so far is that the notification
         | sound is different from my phone/message chime, so when I hear
         | it I know it's someone at the door.
         | 
         | I'm curious to hear what other people think?
        
       | edent wrote:
       | This is a brilliant idea! Love the "take a photo" at the start. I
       | assume (if you answer) it will go through WebRTC?
       | 
       | Might be nice to play a "ding dong" sound in the browser?
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Currently it isn't doing WebRTC, but that is the idea. Although
         | I'm not sure if I want to add audio and/or video?
        
       | NKosmatos wrote:
       | Good for you that you build your first mobile app(s) and for
       | having an inventive mind, but please be aware that there are many
       | many "bad" people out there that will abuse/prank/exploit simple
       | ideas like yours. Keep yourself safe and don't allow people to
       | disturb you in ways you haven't imagined. Unfortunately this is
       | the state of the world right now :-(
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thanks for you concern. I need to look into different
         | safeguards to prevent abuse. Right now I'm trying to see if
         | there is at least some use
        
       | riiii wrote:
       | Doorbell URL:
       | https://dingdongdoorbell.com/bells/5muj34dpDCzdyABV/
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | Feedback: Bad UX. After scanning your example code I got page
       | which asked me to take photo and I get really confused because I
       | thought you want me to scan QR code again but there is no way to
       | switch to other camera of my phone.
       | 
       | Overall this feels too complicated. Unfriendly to people without
       | smartphone or mobile internet. I understand this is DIY
       | equivalent of camera doorbell, but I would definitely prefer some
       | no-name chinese radio doorbell both as one ringing and
       | maintaining it.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the UX needs lots of
         | improving - I'm wondering if more instructions on the QR code
         | or the page for the doorbell would work better?
         | 
         | While a cheap radio doorbell might be better in many cases,
         | there are still circumstances where it's not suitable. I'm
         | trying to figure out which those are?
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >I'm wondering if more instructions on the QR code or the
           | page for the doorbell would work better?
           | 
           | In general you should display a prompt explaining why a
           | permission is needed (eg. "we need access to your camera to
           | camera to take a picture to send to the owner, click allow on
           | the next screen to allow."), and only ask for permissions
           | after the user accepts the first prompt.
           | 
           | However in this particular case you shouldn't have to request
           | camera access directly. Using <input type="file"
           | accept="image/*" capture="user> will display an system
           | interface (ie. from the browser or OS) to allow the user to
           | take/select an existing picture. It also already has preview
           | and front/back camera selector built in, so you don't have to
           | implement that yourself.
           | 
           | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
           | US/docs/Web/HTML/Attributes...
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | If you're at the point of asking permissions, might as well
             | grab the location data as well. You could then verify that
             | the person hitting the QR code is actually on your front
             | step which would eliminate all of the false positives like
             | the replay attacks, copies being used in other locations,
             | etc.
        
             | dirkc wrote:
             | 100% agree with explaining before asking permission.
             | 
             | I'll have a look at using the `capture` attribute on an
             | input. My initial idea was to do video over webRTC, but the
             | selfie version works okay for a first version
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | There are tons of cheap wireless units available that just
           | use a bit of sticky tape to "install" the button to the door
           | and then you can place the receiver/bell where ever you want.
           | These work well and are much more understood by visitors.
           | 
           | Of course, you would not have learned your first iOS/Android
           | app with that approach. Maybe that's the better lesson to
           | learn though--not everything needs to be an app
        
           | biercarsten wrote:
           | So while I find that idea interesting, I would rather prefer
           | knocking or texting on the doorstep of peoples homes.
           | 
           | I might have a situation where the QR Code makes sense
           | though. I'm renting a location for a party at the top of a
           | building, which is only accessible by transponder cards. So
           | there is no door bell or anything. Instead of having someone
           | letting the guests in, this could be an alternative.
        
       | langsoul-com wrote:
       | Nfc touch doorbell would also be cool. Though, I do feel it's too
       | technically advanced for most people to use.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | That would be cool - the QR could also be a RFID tag. But like
         | you mention, that would also be more advanced
        
       | AndrewOMartin wrote:
       | I think I walked past this in a European capital city, could that
       | have been your doorbell (city not specified for obvious reasons)?
       | Or are other people already using this?
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | I doubt that it was one of mine, I'm much further south.
         | 
         | I'd be very curious to hear more about it
        
       | jillesvangurp wrote:
       | I recently visited a friend in Finland. In Finland it's common
       | for apartments to not have doorbells downstairs. Instead the door
       | has a pincode that people use to get in which are typically
       | shared with friends when you invite them.
       | 
       | Except those pin codes are now commonly disabled for security
       | reasons. So, I was waiting downstairs wondering what to do and in
       | the end just called my friend after which he came downstairs to
       | open the door. That works of course but a QR code would be a good
       | alternative.
       | 
       | Even if it just contained a tel:// link with the phone number. I
       | love QR codes for low tech solutions like this.
       | 
       | This stuff doesn't have to be hard. And you don't even need an
       | app for this. Just print your own code with your phone number,
       | email address, etc. (from any of a vast number of web based
       | generators) and put it near the door with some instructions.
        
       | nabla9 wrote:
       | Choose better UX design.
       | 
       | 1. Get a QR code to put at your door
       | 
       | 2. Visitors scan the QR code using their smartphone camera
       | 
       | 3. Get a notification on your phone wherever you are!
       | 
       | OR
       | 
       | 1. Install doorbell at your door.
       | 
       | 2. Visitors press the doorbell using any of their extremities.
       | 
       | 3. Get a notification on your phone wherever you are!
        
         | Weetile wrote:
         | Not to mention a QR code excludes many people such as children
         | and the elderly who might not have phones
        
           | dirkc wrote:
           | Good point, I'm hoping that this increases access rather than
           | decrease it. In my neighborhood there are plenty of homes
           | without doorbells.
        
             | saaaaaam wrote:
             | Maybe those people don't want people to bother them. I keep
             | the buzzer in my apartment turned off a lot of the time
             | because random people buzz it trying to deliver things to
             | my neighbours. We have a concierge desk for that.
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | I probably agree with your premise (it's not clear), but:
         | 
         | Scenario 1 (QR code) puts 100% of the infrastructure on the
         | client (visitor) side, and scenario 2 (Nest, Ring, etc) puts
         | 100% of the infrastructure on the server (resident) side.
         | [Edit: strained metaphor perhaps, and yes both scenarios
         | require connectivity infrastructure]
         | 
         | So these are completely different methods of achieving the same
         | goal, and there are easily imaginable cases where one scenario
         | would be preferable over the other.
         | 
         | Usually, server-side makes the most sense. Certainly in the
         | case of a traditional wired or wireless dumb doorbell, it's
         | simpler.
         | 
         | But there are cases where server-side is difficult or
         | impossible, especially if you want "smart" features like photos
         | or routing or two-way interaction. Higher cost, permission from
         | property owner if renting, etc.
         | 
         | Pushing the infrastructure to client-side solves these
         | problems. Most users will have the client infrastructure in
         | their pocket already. No wires. No new piece of hardware to
         | maintain, repair, keep charged, etc.
        
           | aaronax wrote:
           | You can get a wireless doorbell for $25 which will require no
           | permission from any reasonable property owner.
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | But this gives you the functionality of a $200 system
             | (Nest, Ring, etc) for ~zero cost, _and_ not all property
             | owners will approve a Nest camera on their porch.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | The way I see it, Nest and Ring are a $20 doorbell, plus
               | a $10 range extender so you can hear the bell if you're
               | out the back, plus a $170 home CCTV system because you're
               | in a high crime area.
               | 
               | Seems to me a QR code removes the $170 bit that was a key
               | part of the Ring camera value proposition.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | The "ring me even if I'm not at home" feature has some
               | value also.
               | 
               | And for people who do not live in high-crime areas, but
               | might want the other features of a Ring camera, the value
               | distribution would necessarily be different.
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | I'm in a very low (nonexistent, really) crime area and I
               | like the camera on the doorbell. Not worried about anyone
               | breaking in, but being able to tell at a glance whether
               | it's a package, a neighbor, or a salesman ... that's
               | valuable.
        
           | beAbU wrote:
           | How is scenario 1 100% on the client side?
        
             | quesera wrote:
             | Bad metaphor perhaps. Attempted to clarify above.
        
           | c22 wrote:
           | If I'm already holding my phone in my hand why wouldn't I
           | just call you?
        
             | mikedelfino wrote:
             | The pizza guy, your neighbor, and firefighters don't always
             | have direct access to your phone number.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Choose better UX design from visitor's perspective
         | 
         | Knock on the door while ignoring anonymous QR code that could
         | have been left by anyone
        
           | dirkc wrote:
           | This is my nr 1 question, will visitors scan the QR or will
           | they still prefer to knock/phone?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I hate it when people call/text me to say "I'm here". You
             | know what else you could do to let me know that you're
             | here? Knock or ring the bell. It's definitely a
             | generational thing though. Having lived in a time with and
             | without devices, I'm really thankful that I didn't grow up
             | never not having a device. This is a good example of unable
             | to think of how to operate without a device
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | Some places don't have functional doorbells, and some
               | doors are too far from living space for a knock to be
               | heard.
               | 
               | Some renting situations make solving those problems
               | difficult, annoying, or impossible.
               | 
               | But yeah, generally a doorbell is a pretty reliable tool.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | > Some places
               | 
               | That's probably true, but I don't live in some places. I
               | have a door with a knocker and a doorbell.
               | Calling/texting me is so damn annoying and pointless. You
               | knock/ring, I get up and answer the door. You text/ring,
               | I might ignore it or at least it could take time to go to
               | where it might be sitting other than in my hand.
               | 
               | If you live in one of these "some places", I doubt the
               | landlord is going to be very happy about people
               | plastering various QR codes on their property, especially
               | if "some place" is a multi-tennant property which
               | typically already have a system in place
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | > _but I don 't live in some places_
               | 
               | Great. I don't think OP made this thing explicitly for
               | you.
               | 
               | And I'm not attempting to persuade you into choosing this
               | doorbell option.
               | 
               | For others, who are not you, and who have different
               | living situations than yours, this could be an
               | interesting option.
        
               | ozim wrote:
               | I disconnect that shit because of unwanted use.
               | 
               | Mailman, flyers, delivery not for me, neighborhood kids
               | pushing wrong buttons or just fooling around.
               | 
               | If I have delivery scheduled or there is scheduled
               | maintenance for building I will connect it for that day.
               | Even delivery guys sms/call me when they are in area to
               | check if they should drop by with parcel anyway.
               | 
               | People like friends/family don't drop by without calling
               | sending a message. There is no unscheduled visits since I
               | was teenager.
        
               | c22 wrote:
               | I hate when people ring the doorbell. I'd rather they
               | just walk in so I don't have to get up.
        
               | markerz wrote:
               | Wow that's a surprisingly aggressive comment. I'll share
               | why I used to text and call "I'm here". I've had many
               | experiences where the residents had dogs that would
               | absolutely lose their minds and bark non-stop or go crazy
               | when you ring the doorbell. It's just a better experience
               | when their owner opens the door and there's a guest.
               | Other times, my friends lived in a multi-unit apartment
               | and I didn't want to bother 5 other people who I didn't
               | know. Other times they lived with their family and,
               | again, just didn't want to talk to them that time.
               | -shrug- but I guess these are examples of not being able
               | to think without a device.
               | 
               | For you, if you're expecting guests, just tell them to
               | ring your doorbell. Get rid of the ambiguity and give
               | them comfort in knowing the "right" thing to do. You
               | clearly gave it some thought and have strong opinions
               | about it. I'm sure other people are just trying to be
               | considerate in a generation where they mostly grew up
               | living with lots of other people.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | _> For you, if you're expecting guests, just tell them to
               | ring your doorbell. Get rid of the ambiguity and give
               | them comfort in knowing the "right" thing to do_
               | 
               | I'm not the person you're replying to, but the way I see
               | things, if I put a button on the front of my house
               | labelled "visitors, please press me" and then I got mad
               | at my visitors for pressing it, that would be _super_
               | weird behaviour on my part. The button _is_ the
               | permission.
               | 
               | People who don't want visitors to press the bell either
               | remove it, or tape a bit of cardboard over it or
               | something.
        
               | camtarn wrote:
               | Well, usually.
               | 
               | Our doorbell, which was non-functional from when we moved
               | in until we moved out eight years later, and which we
               | were always planning to fix 'next week', is a good
               | counterexample.
               | 
               | Not that we'd get mad at people for ringing the doorbell,
               | but we were very glad that people usually figured out
               | they had to knock.
        
               | markerz wrote:
               | Sure, I think if a doorbell exists, it's fine to press
               | it. For me, I just don't want to get overwhelmed by their
               | barking dogs or greeting 4 other people. Sometimes, I'm
               | just not in the mood and just want to see my friend one-
               | on-one. I'm not doing it for other people. I'm doing it
               | for myself because I find the experience of calling
               | someone when I arrive to be a lot more pleasant in some
               | cases. Those cases happen to occur more often when my
               | friends are young. i.e. living with lots of other people
               | or with their parents and family dogs.
        
               | vikingerik wrote:
               | One reason I and a number of people do that: to cover the
               | possibility you might be at the wrong door/house or
               | ringing the wrong doorbell.
               | 
               | I had both of those problems at my previous residence. It
               | was an apartment complex with some N1/2 addresses.
               | Visitors would often miss that bit and be at the wrong
               | door. On top of that, the doorbells were
               | counterintuitive: they were arranged vertically, but the
               | bottom doorbell would ring the top apartment and vice
               | versa, so I forever had visitors and deliveries ringing
               | the wrong bell (and actually mostly for the other units
               | ringing mine.)
        
               | rendaw wrote:
               | Also if someones just dropping by (unscheduled delivery,
               | sales) and I'm asleep, or watching a movie, or whatever I
               | don't want to be disturbed, and if I have a question for
               | my neighbors similarly I don't want to bother them if
               | they're busy. Phones have snooze mode, most doorbells
               | I've encountered don't.
        
               | ozim wrote:
               | I usually text/call when I visit people not so often like
               | once a year or once in couple years because usually I
               | don't remember exactly which number it was.
               | 
               | If I go somewhere couple times a year I usually feel
               | quite comfortable using doorbell.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | I get annoyed by people knocking instead of ringing the
               | doorbell. I am less likely to hear a knock.
        
               | jaymzcampbell wrote:
               | I do this all the time even when I know I'm at the right
               | place as my friends have young kids and I usually turn up
               | around when they might be in bed, so I tend to just
               | message my mate I'm there to see that I'm ready and
               | outside. Both of us are in our late 40s.
        
             | rimunroe wrote:
             | I would not scan the QR code because that's way less
             | trouble. If the owner insisted on it I'd do it, but I'd
             | roll my eyes and wondering why the owner thought this was
             | an improvement.
        
         | eddieroger wrote:
         | Option 2 requires power, which not all doors have. There are
         | wireless doorbells, but perhaps OP doesn't want to have to
         | remember to charge or swap batteries.
        
           | saaaaaam wrote:
           | While option 1 requires connectivity, which not all doors
           | have. I live in a large apartment block. There is zero phone
           | signal at my front door. WiFi, yes, but I'm not giving some
           | random access to my WiFi network.
        
             | netsharc wrote:
             | My app idea is to tell guests to "Connect to this SSID to
             | knock", and have a way of scanning for new MACs on the
             | network and notifying the door owner... /s
             | 
             | For security of course it'll be an SSID that doesn't
             | connect to anything else, because hey, we care about
             | security. ;-)
             | 
             | Another app is: "connect to this SSID and ping6
             | 2345:0425:2CA1:0000:0000:0567:5673:23b5 to ring doorbell!".
        
               | saaaaaam wrote:
               | This sounds far too simple for something as complex as
               | dealing with unsolicited attendance notification
               | injections occurring at randomly defined intervals
               | against a primary public<>private security surface.
               | 
               | Particularly when you consider that some of those
               | attendance injections may contain potential threats or
               | unsolicited commercial messaging, or be designed to cause
               | interference with predefined private processes, or even
               | be designed just to consume processor cycles in
               | unnecessary communication processing across the security
               | layer.
               | 
               | While I like your implementation suggestion it feels a
               | little lightweight for something this important. Please
               | revisit the scope and come back with a more fully fleshed
               | out project proposal.
        
         | toss1 wrote:
         | The other good thing about Option#2 is that visitors do not
         | have to give you their mobile phone number (which they are
         | doing by sending the text).
         | 
         | Just because they are at your door for some reason does not
         | mean they want to give up what has become their mobile ID.
         | People are starting to get protective of it with good reason,
         | since there are so many attacks using the Mobile #/ID...
         | 
         | Also, as pointed out elsewhere, the static easily duplicated QR
         | code has issues for you, but it would also be easy for someone
         | to slap a malicious QR code over your static one, disabling
         | yours and enabling their scam...
         | 
         | Maybe I'm just the wrong generation, or live in a place that
         | still has winter, but a QR code where I need to get out my
         | phone, take off my glove in winter, activate the camera to
         | scan, etc., seems a lot less welcoming.
         | 
         | One thing that _is_ good about your QR code option is that you
         | do receive notice anywhere _and_ you do have their mobile
         | number, so you can reply immediately with a text or call, such
         | as  "sorry, I'm running late, not quite home yet, I'll be there
         | in 10min". Ofc, you could also post your mobile number below
         | the wireless doorbell.
         | 
         | Perhaps Option #3 would be a doorbell that can display a
         | scrolling message, so
         | 
         | -- wireless doorbell
         | 
         | -- sends text to you
         | 
         | -- you can reply to doorbell (e.g., "coming downstairs now", or
         | "traffic, be there in 5min", "pls call me at 987-654-3210",
         | etc.)
         | 
         | This way, no one needs to reveal their mobile number, but
         | everyone has the advantage of mobile communications, albeit
         | with a small bandwidth.
         | 
         | ?
        
         | itake wrote:
         | I think a note feature explaining why they are there would be
         | useful.
         | 
         | Knocking or a physical doorbell noise is fine for my house. But
         | if I'm not home, they have no way to communicate with me unless
         | they leave a note on the door, which requires them to have
         | paper and me to not be traveling for days.
        
           | dirkc wrote:
           | I agree, I've missed this feature myself. I wonder if the QR
           | could be your away doorbell, "Gone fishing, leave a message"
        
             | itake wrote:
             | I don't want people to know when I am out of the house. It
             | drives me crazy when solicitors leave ads on my door
             | handle, b/c I can be out of town for weeks.
        
         | sangupta wrote:
         | And not everyone carries a smartphone to scan QR code - read,
         | elementary kids coming over every evening to play :)
        
       | voytec wrote:
       | I can see some potential for people with hearing loss. I've seen
       | apartments and houses of such folks, with some small dedicated
       | bulbs or even normal ceiling lights flashing furiously on all
       | over the house upon someone ringing the doorbell. A doorbell
       | signaling smartphones, making smart wrist watches vibrate etc,
       | could be reasonable in such cases. But it could be still a plain
       | uncomplicated button next to the door.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thanks, I haven't heard that perspective before.
        
         | account42 wrote:
         | A "smart" doorbell that can notify you in various ways makes
         | sense - even without hearing loss you may not always be able to
         | hear the doorbell (headphones).
         | 
         | Expecting guests and random strangers to go out of their way to
         | accomodate that is not ideal. I don't know how I would react if
         | I had to scan a QR code to ring a doorbell but chances are I
         | would leave.
        
       | ale42 wrote:
       | Now someone might want to check for neighbors having such QR
       | codes on their doors and replace them with QR serving ads (and
       | accessorily ring the "bell" application), or just with something
       | unrelated (like a page to install a rogue app).
       | 
       | On a side note, a delivery person might actually not want to scan
       | the QR code because (a) if you do this all the day long, it take
       | much more time than pushing doorbell buttons, and (b) if they use
       | their professional devices to do this, they might either have
       | that URL blocked, or scanning a "random" QR code might be against
       | their company's policies because it might expose them to security
       | risks (imagine a phishing page with the login interface of the
       | delivery company, or a site serving malware).
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | iOS debuted a feature called "App Clips" awhile ago (2020?) that
       | would be perfect for this.
       | 
       | Most phones have an NFC reader as well so should work with
       | Android too.
       | 
       | Similar concept:
       | 
       | 1) person taps phone against "door bell"
       | 
       | 2) sends notification to user(s)
       | 
       | 3) optionally, send "selfie"
       | 
       | IIRC, app clips needed to be very small in size. So something
       | like this could work, even in low bandwidth situations (ie, poor
       | signal strength)
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thanks for the suggestion! I understood "app clips" to be like
         | notifications, but sounds like they are worth looking into.
        
       | zaxomi wrote:
       | I wish my annoying neighbor would get this, because then I can
       | post the code online and have the whole world knocking on his
       | door at all hours of the day.
        
       | JohnFen wrote:
       | Your house seems _more_ welcoming with a QR code? Scanning it
       | seems like a hassle for visitors. I 'd probably just knock.
        
         | account42 wrote:
         | You'd knock? Depending on our relationship I'd just leave.
         | Especially after being asked to take a photo - I already
         | dislike video doorbells but sending a picture via an app where
         | it will be stored for who knows how long is not something I'll
         | go along with.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | I answered assuming that the house belongs to a friend or
           | loved one, or that I have some important reason I want the
           | occupant's immediate attention. In those situations, I'd
           | knock.
           | 
           | I do very strongly prefer a QR code thing to something like a
           | Ring (as long as the QR code isn't going to a service such as
           | Ring), though, but neither is better than knocking.
        
       | rahimnathwani wrote:
       | I thought about keeping my existing doorbell button and chime,
       | but adding an ESP32 plus hall effect sensor, to detect when the
       | doorbell chime is being powered and trigger a notification over
       | wifi.
       | 
       | It seems a bit convoluted, though. Is there a DPST momentary
       | button I can use instead (removing the need for the hall effect
       | sensor)? I searched on digikey but 'DPST momentary' came back
       | with results that were too bare (just the button), expensive ($50
       | per unit) and had a long lead time (8 weeks).
        
         | tofof wrote:
         | Why would you use a hall effect sensor at all, or a dpst for
         | that matter? You just need two resistors.
         | 
         | Just tap the dc leg between the bell and the chime into a
         | voltage divider - for a 16V doorbell to a 3.3V esp32 io pin,
         | r1=15k and r2=3.3k is exact - and you're done.
        
           | rahimnathwani wrote:
           | Thanks. This makes much more sense.
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | How common is DC in home doorbell systems? Most doorbell
           | wiring diagrams I've seen in the US show systems that appear
           | to be all AC.
        
       | dirkc wrote:
       | Reading through the comments I realize the subheading on the site
       | is not sending the right message:
       | 
       | > Replace your doorbell with a QR code
       | 
       | The purpose of the app is to create a doorbell for
       | instances/contexts where there isn't one. Not to replace
       | currently working doorbells.
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | "Print out your own virtual doorbell!"
        
         | turtlebits wrote:
         | Knock? Even if there is a doorbell, I prefer to knock as it's
         | less disruptive.
        
       | tln wrote:
       | Interesting idea...
       | 
       | Cheap wireless doorbell is $5 delivered from Amazon. That's your
       | biggest competition for the straightforward case. And that's
       | easier to install, and easier to use.
       | 
       | There are plenty of scenarios where a Qr -> optional form ->
       | notification is useful, eg hosting an event -- so maybe
       | explore/emphasize those rather than the simple approach.
       | 
       | Fighting abuse and the resulting customer service, bad reviews,
       | etc will be a constant drain/challenge.
       | 
       | There might be some market overlap with generic notification apps
       | like Pushover.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | Thanks, that's good feedback!
        
         | ramses0 wrote:
         | I'm actually your target market here, but I want to replace my
         | old exterior garage-door keypad with a (weather-protected) QR
         | code. Same same, but text/twilio/home-assistant URL to allow me
         | to trigger/confirm the garage door opening, probably IFTT.
         | 
         | Agree also with the "scan this code when you arrive to the
         | party" => are you here? Y/N => notification. Pop a geo-
         | permissions prompt and geo-fence "YES" in certain cases, and
         | you're getting somewhere.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | For your own garage door, if you are going to need your phone
           | anyway to scan the code, why not just use regular automation
           | tools? I.e. Just press a button on your home screen and
           | you're done. Something like Home Assistant can do that easily
           | enough.
        
           | dmonitor wrote:
           | Why QR over NFC? NFC's tap-to-activate functionality is
           | usually way faster than my camera app
        
       | oefrha wrote:
       | I don't see this as a doorbell, I see it as a QR code that can be
       | trivially reproduced and used to trigger notifications on your
       | phone by anyone from anywhere at any time, basically completely
       | anonymously. Not a great idea.
        
       | stainablesteel wrote:
       | this seems silly
       | 
       | seeing as you need an internet connection to access whether the
       | doorbell has been rung, you may as well connect a physical
       | doorbell to an app that monitors this and gives you a
       | notification on your phone without the need for a QR code
       | 
       | the QR code is just a hassle
        
       | sureIy wrote:
       | This feels like a mocking app of today's Reddit post requiring an
       | app to operate an elevator.
       | 
       | Kinda silly in any case. If you want to use a QR, just point it
       | to your phone number so I can call you and talk to you.
        
       | G_o_D wrote:
       | Rather use NFC TAG, INSTEAD SCANNING QR REQUIRES SPECIFIC APP,
       | HELL EVEN IN 2024 I DONT KNOW HOW TO SCAN QR WITHOUT 3RD PARTY
       | APP, AND I HAVE GOOGLE LENS AND RELATED APPS DISABLED
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | Click the Camera app, then point at the QR code and press the
         | link
        
       | G_o_D wrote:
       | Rather use NFC TAG,
        
       | ovi256 wrote:
       | My old fantasy of "scan an NFC tag and it brings up an UI on your
       | phone to do things to the machine bearing the tag" applies here
       | too.
       | 
       | Easily add a control panel to machines that can't easily have one
       | (because of cost etc). Or a debugging panel for improved UX over
       | the usual "three LEDs giving you a code you have to look up in
       | the user manual".
       | 
       | NFC is better UX (less user taps).
       | 
       | For an easy PoC, make an NFC tag that connects you to an SSID and
       | opens the captive portal usually used for Wi-Fi auth as the
       | control panel.
        
       | G_o_D wrote:
       | Also there are rfid based smart stickers with microconteoplers
       | abailable
        
       | voytec wrote:
       | You're focusing on an app, instead of ringing person's UX and
       | _the_ doorbell itself.
       | 
       | My suggestion: find a niche, like a doorbell for hearing impaired
       | home owners. Otherwise you'll be recreating Nest. Google won't
       | buy identical product twice, to kill it. A generic Nest-like
       | product has little chances to take over the market.
       | 
       | A button feels more natural and is much more approachable over an
       | QR code. QR may be a nice fail-over for when no one is opening
       | the door in reaction to knocking or pushing a button. But QR as
       | the main method? Maybe for evolving markets or harsh
       | neighborhoods where wireless doorbells get stolen - if that's
       | even a thing.
       | 
       | You're looking into providing value to home-owners, by making it
       | easier for someone outside their homes. In most cases this dumb
       | button that makes some sound inside the house just works. Little
       | area for improvement here, for most people.
       | 
       | Your potential market for people willing to stick a QR code on
       | their door are:
       | 
       | > "I'm hearing-impaired. Please use below QR code if I don't hear
       | you knock"
       | 
       | > "I'm not opening? chat with me here [QR code]"
       | 
       | | this is your potential target. You already see that most
       | comments in this thread tell you that people don't want QR codes
       | on their doors. You have an idea for a solution still looking for
       | a problem. Accessibility around hearing loss may be one.
       | 
       | You can help people. And from a business perspective, you may be
       | able to get government grants for such project, which may be
       | better for you than crowd-sourcing. And, you may get customers
       | who get their purchases partially covered by gov health programs,
       | if you properly interact with related accessibility-related gov
       | bodies (YMMV around the world of course), apply for getting your
       | stuff assessed for free advertisements inside hearing loss-
       | related clinics etc. And again - you can make a product that
       | makes impaired folks' lives better. Win-win.
       | 
       | There are multiple ESP32-based doorbell projects (I like this
       | one[0]) that can be expanded easily with code changes. I can't
       | really see how a QR code is better. Make your product either
       | equally interesting to public or covering some niche use-case.
       | And again: Nest...
       | 
       | [0] https://tristam.ie/2023/758/
        
       | saaaaaam wrote:
       | Hey! Welcome, valued visitor! You'll notice I don't appear to
       | have a doorbell. Don't worry, this is for your convenience and
       | mine.
       | 
       | If I'm out and about you'll be able to contact me, and I can tell
       | you that I'm unable to answer the door right now but I value your
       | visit.
       | 
       | All in real time!
       | 
       | Let's get started: simply solve the puzzle below. The solution
       | will let you work out the code to unlock the box next to my door.
       | 
       | When you unlock the box scan the QR code inside, which will allow
       | you to connect to my WiFi guest network.
       | 
       | Once you're connected scan the second QR code to open the virtual
       | doorbell selector. You can then select the appropriate message
       | for your visit.
       | 
       | Unable to connect?
       | 
       | Simply knock on the door and wait. If I'm home I'll surely answer
       | soon enough. If I'm not home or don't want to be disturbed you
       | should use your own judgement: if it's urgent trying shouting
       | through the letterbox, or maybe wait a while and then return
       | later!
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | Your privacy is important to us! All interactions with this QR
         | code doorbell are recorded for the purpose of training and
         | quality improvement. If you do not want your data to be stored,
         | please opt out by scanning the second QR code below the QR code
         | doorbell. This doorbell uses cookies to enhance your bell
         | ringing experience. Using the QR code doorbell implies your
         | consent to the use of cookies and similar technology. To reject
         | the use of cookies and similar technologies, please scan the
         | third QR code below the QR code doorbell.
        
         | dirkc wrote:
         | In the right circumstances that sounds like fun - a mini escape
         | room before you can visit your friend :)
        
           | saaaaaam wrote:
           | I'm wearing mittens >:-#
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | Why does this need an app? Why not just send me a text, or
       | better, yet just an SMSTO link? (ie SMSTO:+1123456:Open the
       | door!)
        
       | flkiwi wrote:
       | As a hack, this is great. As a thing I would actually use? Very,
       | very unlikely.
       | 
       | - I would never use a random QR code in public and I wouldn't ask
       | anyone else to.
       | 
       | - Pranking seems like an issue.
       | 
       | - If I know someone, they'll text me they've arrived. If I don't
       | know someone, there are two main cases: delivery person, who is
       | going to pound the door and leave immediately (and I'll get a
       | notification of delivery); and religious proselytizers, political
       | door-knockers, and solar company sales people, none of whom I
       | care remotely about talking to.
       | 
       | Again, as a project, this is delightful. But as a thing to
       | incorporate into my home, I can't see the use case.
       | 
       | EDIT: Also, criminals. They're not going to use a QR code to see
       | if I'm home.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I went down a rabbit hole several years ago with this concept.
       | 
       | I built much of the code front end and back end then abandoned it
       | because I just could not summon the belief in the idea as a
       | startup.
       | 
       | I was focused on QR codes as entry points to buildings and
       | companies, with integrated guest book functionality.
       | 
       | This was pre-covid so QR codes had not yet become something
       | everyone knew how to drive and mobile phone implementation was
       | not yet universal.
       | 
       | Also being pre-covid every still went to the office to go to
       | work.
       | 
       | I came up with many names and registered many domains I think one
       | of them was paperdoorbell.com and many other such variants.
        
       | coretx wrote:
       | It has been a while since a _useful_ new app came along! Thank
       | you, i appreciate it to the point I'd be willing to pay for it.
       | 
       | Feedback: Teach people to never ever scan a QR code if they don't
       | know for a fact who created it. For if you don't, you'll be part
       | of the crowd who is conditioning people to scan all the QR codes
       | they can find without thinking...
        
       | anon115 wrote:
       | if you improve the UX on this thing I think im not a businessmen
       | but i think you would be competing against 'Ring'
        
       | weiwio wrote:
       | It made me immediately think of the sign in and sign out QR code
       | for my kid's preschool haha. Interesting idea!
        
       | qkhhly wrote:
       | I have a better idea: using a QR code as your door key.
       | 
       | * Install a lock that does not have any external mechanism to
       | unlock it. No key holes, no password pad, nothing. So there will
       | be no lock picking in any way.
       | 
       | * Use your peep hole as a camera.
       | 
       | * Show a QR code to said camera.
       | 
       | * Door unlocks if QR code is correct.
        
         | otterley wrote:
         | What's the failsafe mode? (e.g. battery is dead, mechanism
         | fails, etc.)
        
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