[HN Gopher] Sci-fi books that you may never have heard of, but d...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Sci-fi books that you may never have heard of, but definitely
       should read
        
       Author : bwb
       Score  : 214 points
       Date   : 2024-10-28 09:45 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shepherd.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shepherd.com)
        
       | bwb wrote:
       | Author Brian Guthrie shares some of his favorites and happy to
       | see that I have only read one of these.
        
       | freetonik wrote:
       | One of "you may never heard of" sci-fi books I can recommend is
       | The City & the City by China Mieville. Perhaps not traditional
       | science fiction, but so original and strange, it's beautiful.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | Seconded. One of those books that gives you a crisp metaphor
         | for something powerful you might not have noticed we all do,
         | thereby letting you observe yourself do it and describe it to
         | others. Best read _tabula rasa_.
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | Good book and one with a solid BBC adaption into a four part
           | mini series (2018)
           | 
           | https://thetvdb.com/series/345091-show
        
             | freetonik wrote:
             | It's remarkable that they decided to adopt it for TV,
             | because it's one of those novels that's very hard to
             | imagine to put onto a screen. The whole book felt, to me,
             | like I'm in a dream.
        
               | xarope wrote:
               | Wow, must try to watch it. I remember reading The City &
               | the City and thinking about how visually it would be...
               | different clothes, overlapping murals?
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | I have zero idea how healthy these are .. but .. try
               | https://ext.to/the-city-and-the-city-s9177/
               | 
               | Best bet looks like: https://ext.to/the-city-and-the-
               | city-season-1-complete-720p-...
               | 
               |  _If_ you 're in the UK you can watch d/load from the BBC
               | hone site via iPlayer _when_ they rotate available again
               | (currently not on iPlayer):
               | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p061bd5l
        
         | s-lambert wrote:
         | Embassytown, also by China Mieville, _is_ traditional sci-fi
         | and really good as well.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | Weirdly, The City & the City reminds me of Martin Cruz Smith's
         | books like _Gorky Park_ set in the Soviet Union (or more
         | recently post-Soviet countries) in that it is a police
         | procedural set in a culture the reader presumably doesn 't
         | understand and so the reader is interested in learning how this
         | society functions as much as they are interested in seeing the
         | mystery solved. The difference of course is the societies in
         | The City & the City are of course fictional.
        
           | interludead wrote:
           | What aspects of the culture in The City & the City stood out
           | to you the most?
        
             | jhbadger wrote:
             | Mostly just the explanations of how the two cities could
             | function as separate entities while physically occupying
             | the same land through the use of legally mandated
             | "useeing". The author goes into detail how this works --
             | obviously at one level people see the people, vehicles,
             | etc. from the other city or they'd run into them, but on a
             | conscious level they act as if they don't exist.
        
         | tialaramex wrote:
         | I dislike both this and Mieville's Embassytown since in my
         | opinion both set out to mislead me and then do a reveal which
         | amounts "I misled you about what's really going on" and while
         | that works for a stand up comic beat (e.g. Taylor Tomlinson "he
         | cheated on me ... in my head") I don't want to read a whole
         | novel this way.
         | 
         | Perdido Street Station and Kraken I really enjoyed, but I
         | almost threw the book across the room for Embassytown once I
         | realised.
        
           | Annual wrote:
           | As someone who hated The City and The City to the point of
           | never reading Mieville again, I appreciate the warning for
           | Embassytown. I sometimes consider reading his stuff again but
           | I was genuinely offended by the trick in City. Like... I paid
           | money for this? No. It felt like contempt for his audience.
        
           | slothtrop wrote:
           | I hated PSS, and enjoyed Embassytown. I don't understand
           | what's misleading about it.
        
           | rkachowski wrote:
           | What's the Embassytown mislead? I read that recently and felt
           | it was pretty direct.
        
         | Annual wrote:
         | I hated it because it felt like a smug trick. Like, I know you
         | ordered steak and paid for steak, but I'm serving you a salad
         | because it's healthier for you, and if you complain it's just
         | your lack of taste.
        
         | rfarley04 wrote:
         | My thing about Mieville is that all the books of his I've read
         | (Embassytown, Perdido street Station, and the one about trains
         | that I didn't realize was pretty YA) felt like the endings
         | dissol into B grade action (IMO Stephenson has the same
         | problem). Everything starts off surreal and philosophical and
         | beautiful and then just fizzles into stuff blowing up
        
           | slothtrop wrote:
           | iirc all the books you mentioned have action throughout and
           | most of Stephenson is the same
        
         | stormking wrote:
         | A book that was even made into a TV miniseries does not fit my
         | definition of "you may never heard of".
        
           | rkachowski wrote:
           | tbf the BBC does a lot of mid tv miniseries. I don't feel
           | many people will know this adaptation outside of fans of the
           | book.
        
         | dcminter wrote:
         | I too adore that one - when describing it to people I've found
         | the term "headfuck police procedural" is the most fitting.
        
       | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
       | Greg Egan's _Permutation City_ is #1 for me. It 's not only a
       | good read, it may be the most important work of late 20th century
       | philosophy. (Among other things, it _completely_ anticipated
       | Tegmark 's Mathematical Universe Hypothesis, and totally obviates
       | Bostrom's latest work.)
        
         | netdevnet wrote:
         | I am surprised there was no Egan book in the list. He's in the
         | top 5 of hard sci fi authors you should definitely read
        
           | freetonik wrote:
           | The list starts with Project Hail Mary, which is as far from
           | Egan as I can imagine on the science fiction spectrum.
        
           | bwb wrote:
           | We've got 10 lists with him as well:
           | https://shepherd.com/search/author/1445
           | 
           | You can see how they connected to him there too.
        
           | n4r9 wrote:
           | I think Egan is much better known than most (if not all) of
           | the authors in the list. I've heard of Andy Weir and Hugh
           | Howey, but not the particular books listed by them.
           | Conversely I've heard about Permutation City quite often.
        
           | sumtechguy wrote:
           | Many 'you should read these lists' are just that lists.
           | Usually by the author of the list and things they have read
           | and think you should too. That they missed something is not
           | surprising. Lists like this have an air of authority when
           | they usually boil down to 'things I have seen/read and
           | like/hate'. I use them as interesting things to go thru to
           | see if there is anything I missed.
        
         | jiggawatts wrote:
         | Reading Egan's works elevated my standard for what constitutes
         | a truly great novel: "If you don't _change_ as a person after
         | having it read it, it wasn 't that great."
         | 
         | Permutation City especially made me see the universe and my
         | part in it in a different light, or perhaps casting a shadow
         | onto it. I'll never be the same person as I was before I had
         | read it.
        
         | __rito__ wrote:
         | Wow, I also thought of the work as deeply philosophical. I also
         | read a bunch of other philosophy, and found that Egan's
         | hypothesis overlaps significantly with both Advaita Vedanta and
         | Buddhist concept of soul (pali: puggala). Did anybody else
         | think the same?
        
         | interludead wrote:
         | That's a great pick! Permutation City is definitely a thought-
         | provoking read. Egan's exploration of consciousness and reality
         | challenges so many assumptions we take for granted.
        
         | abecedarius wrote:
         | What's the Bostrom work it obviates? I'd be kind of surprised
         | if he never read the Egan -- it was part of the background to
         | extropian culture back then.
        
           | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
           | "Deep Utopia: Life and Meaning in a Solved World"
           | 
           | A book about what to do with life in the face of boundless
           | possibilities, and when just about everything important has
           | been figured out. I recall that this was a significant plot
           | point in _Permutation City_ -- and Egan answered the question
           | more elegantly than Bostrom did.
        
             | abecedarius wrote:
             | Thanks. Could be, I haven't read that one.
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | I'm also interested in that remark about Bostrom. What is the
         | relation?
        
       | mnky9800n wrote:
       | Roadside picnic is a favourite of mine. I'm currently learning
       | Russian to reread it in the original Russian. But the translation
       | is very good and done by the authors themselves.
        
         | freetonik wrote:
         | I didn't know they've translated the book themselves! I often
         | feel like translations done by other people are missing
         | something fundamental of the spirit of the original. I'm
         | wondering if there is a list of books "translated into language
         | X by the author" somewhere.
        
           | lowdownbutter wrote:
           | The same thing occured to me a while back. There is this
           | wikipedia page about it but I didn't get much further than
           | that.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-translation
        
           | jhbadger wrote:
           | The problem is that translation isn't just about "capturing
           | the spirit of the original" but realizing where to keep
           | idioms and like from the original and where things need to be
           | changed to make the translation less clunky. This isn't
           | something just anyone can do. That's why people like Umberto
           | Eco, who was more or less fluent in English, still preferred
           | professional translators like William Weaver to translate his
           | Italian books into English.
        
         | wazoox wrote:
         | It's really one of the most haunting books I've ever read.
         | "Hard to be a God" is also very poignant.
        
           | eatonphil wrote:
           | The Dead Mountaineer's Inn is also good. A classic whodunnit
           | with a twist.
        
             | wazoox wrote:
             | I found it not as good, and somewhat predictable. Its
             | quirky humour didn't work on me, that's probably why I
             | didn't like it as much.
        
               | eatonphil wrote:
               | Fair enough! It was my intro to the Strugatsky brothers
               | and I was hooked.
        
               | wazoox wrote:
               | On the other hand it's not as soul crushing as the other
               | two mentioned :)
        
         | orbisvicis wrote:
         | It inspired _Darker than Black_ which is quite good though not
         | a book.
        
         | 0x38B wrote:
         | If you're learning to read it, I recommend listening as well. A
         | quick Kagi search turned up a fantastic production read by
         | Levashiov V. (1).
         | 
         | I can't go without mentioning my favorite reader in Russian.
         | Listening to Peter Markin read is unforgettable; his
         | performance of Stanislav's "The Invincible" brought the massive
         | machinery and energies to life before my eyes (2); Markin also
         | read Hyperion by Dan Simmons and Frank Herbert's Dune (3).
         | 
         | 1: https://youtu.be/IAD-ANTvs9Y
         | 
         | 2: https://youtu.be/Ad32oH6Cg4Q
         | 
         | 3: I've nearly memorized Dune in Russian because I love his
         | narration so much. He also read The Lord of the Rings - as
         | close as we'll get to a Russian Rob Englis, I expect.
        
         | adelmotsjr wrote:
         | I'm trying to find a legal copy of the original Russian book,
         | but still could not find. Where did you get yours?
         | 
         | That and the original Russian copies of the Metro series..
        
           | dur-randir wrote:
           | https://www.litres.ru/, but i'm not sure that you can pay
           | with visa/mastercard there now.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | I'm not interested in learning Russian at all, but if I ever
         | was, I'd want to read Vita Nostra by Marina & Sergey Dyachenko.
        
       | theshrike79 wrote:
       | The Machine Stops by E.M. Forster:
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4711854-the-machine-stop...
       | 
       | 35 page short story and eerily reminiscent of today's world.
       | 
       | It was written in _1909_.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | I keep on meaning to get around to a E. M. Forster _Short
         | Fiction_ compilation for Standard Ebooks. Maybe this will tip
         | me over the edge.
        
           | sevensor wrote:
           | Forester's longer fiction is well worth it too. It's been
           | years since I read _Howard's End_ and Leonard Bast still
           | haunts me.
        
         | BizarroLand wrote:
         | https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/classes/188/materials/th...
        
       | hnmullany wrote:
       | These are all painfully mid reads. (The alien in Hail Mary is
       | about as alien as a rival fraternity brother.)
       | 
       | If you want real alien aliens, read Blindsight (Peter Watts).
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | > the alien in Hail Mary is about as alien as a rival
         | fraternity brother
         | 
         | You put that as critique, and I understand that. But for me,
         | this was actually the strength of the story. By making the
         | differences smaller, they are more focused, stronger, and give
         | opportunity to explore them in depth.
         | 
         | Same thing I like about many of the Black Mirror stories: often
         | they tweak, or magnify, just one parameter of our realistic,
         | current (western) lives and then explore the differences that
         | would bring.
        
           | tialaramex wrote:
           | But Black Mirror is _about_ us whereas the frustrating thing
           | with depictions of aliens is that they 're not us, that's
           | their defining feature.
        
             | berkes wrote:
             | Stories about aliens aren't meant to describe aliens as
             | theoretically correct as possible. Obviously.
             | 
             | Aliens are hardly ever more than a tool to get a
             | perspective. To look at humans, societies, structures etc.
             | They are also stories _about us_.
        
               | tialaramex wrote:
               | In a story like "The Day After the Day the Martians Came"
               | sure, the purpose of the aliens (Martians in that case)
               | is purely to tell us about us.
               | 
               | But you don't really need aliens for that, there are
               | several Black Mirror stories which do roughly the same
               | perspective trick, particularly "Men Against Fire".
               | Aliens offer an opportunity to explore something quite
               | different and it's always disappointing to see them used
               | as something less interesting.
               | 
               | It's like FTL. FTL is actually exactly equivalent to time
               | travel, and so it's disappointing, though commonplace to
               | see SF which decides to do FTL but no time travel (or
               | indeed vice versa though that's less common)..
               | 
               | I like Culture novels just fine, I like Greg Egan's
               | Amalgam setting (with aliens who are basically just us
               | again, although a bit less obviously so than a Star Trek
               | alien) just fine, but, in both cases I'm a little
               | disappointed. If your aliens aren't even as weird as the
               | _Octopus_ is (and we have no idea what the fuck is going
               | on with an Octopus) then you 're not really trying are
               | you?
        
         | lynx23 wrote:
         | Beware, you'll also get Vampires in space, which is so silly,
         | it kills the book.
        
           | AlphaAndOmega0 wrote:
           | They're a better depiction of Vampires than most, with Watts
           | doing everything he could to make them biologically plausible
           | (that can only go so far).
           | 
           | That being said, I found the way they were "shackled" to be
           | ridiculous. If you've got superintelligent and _superstrong_
           | predatory hominids running around, you have no reason to have
           | them physically free even if you put the medical safeguards
           | in place. Break their spines and sedate them when not in use!
           | 
           | Spoilers:
           | 
           | It seems weird to me that a society with other posthumans and
           | intelligent AGI would be bowled over quite so easily by the
           | vampires, but oh well.
        
             | lynx23 wrote:
             | They still killed the book for me. The underlying idea (no
             | spoilers) is absolutely great sci-fi. All this useless
             | blast-from-the-past did was make the story look silly to
             | me. Such a shame. He could have written a great sci-fi book
             | without superstition, alas, he apparently didn't want to be
             | talken serious....
        
             | randomcarbloke wrote:
             | disagree, the vampires are mostly abstracted away with hand
             | wavy "we couldn't possibly understand how they think",
             | interesting concept, the aliens are more interesting
             | though, and echopraxia was a bit of a dud.
        
           | therealdrag0 wrote:
           | I found suspension of disbelief very easy, just like most SF.
        
           | vundercind wrote:
           | That was so good it convinced me that one correct way to make
           | a good sci fi novel is to construct a world and then add one
           | _insane_ thing and make it fit.
           | 
           | FWIW, for calibrating recommendations, I tend to prefer
           | literary sci fi and end up hating a whole lot of highly-
           | praised-online sci fi novels. I really like that novel, and
           | Watts' short story that retells _The Thing_. That's all I've
           | read of his.
           | 
           | [edit] For further calibration, I'd say the book's strengths
           | are efficiency (above-average editing and/or author's taste
           | of what to write and what not to); action writing that is
           | very much to my taste, being quick and terse and requiring
           | close attention to follow it (almost like action-poetry) but
           | not actually being unclear; and an excellent core sci-fi
           | concept, which I usually don't rate so important an aspect as
           | (I think) a lot of sci-fi readers, but in this case it's _so_
           | good that it overcomes my usual  "well that's nice, but has
           | almost nothing to do with whether it's _good_ " attitude
           | toward that element. It's weak on characters, but is so busy
           | with other things that it's hard to tell whether that's a
           | general weakness of the author, or whether that simply didn't
           | make it to the page in this case. World-building is
           | sufficient, but also kind of not the focus of the story--
           | there's plenty there to support the story, but no more.
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | I read both of those. Peter Watts is a bit of an acquired
         | taste. Not for everyone. I actually enjoyed it but it's a weird
         | one. Genetically modified people that are effectively vampires,
         | a main protagonist with severe brain damage, etc. There's a
         | sequel to this too if you enjoy this.
         | 
         | The Hail Mary project was actually enjoyable. Andy Weir peaked
         | with the Martian his debut novel and this is kind of in the
         | same style. Maybe not as good but enjoyable.
        
         | interludead wrote:
         | Peter Watts really explores the concept of alien intelligence
         | in a way that challenges our perceptions
        
         | ahmedfromtunis wrote:
         | Thanks! I really like it when authors shock my neurons with
         | ideas they never even came close to entertain.
         | 
         | Alien aliens are always rare in sci-fi books. Although I really
         | struggled with the octopodes in Children of Ruin, so I'm not
         | sure if I'm ready yet.
         | 
         | Can someone please suggest books with novel, really alien forms
         | of life, social structures, etc.?
        
           | Zardoz89 wrote:
           | Diaspora by Greg Egan.
        
           | Annual wrote:
           | I vaguely remember The Gods Themselves by Asimov being a
           | strong contender here, but it's been decades since I read it.
           | 
           | Spider Robinson's "Callahan's Crosstime Saloon" series had a
           | story towards the end that blew my tiny little teenaged mind
           | back in the 90's.
           | 
           | Octavia Butler, of course. Xenogenesis.
        
           | bodantogat wrote:
           | Check out Children of Time by Adrian Tchaikovsky.
        
             | alphan0n wrote:
             | We're going on an adventure!
        
         | ABraidotti wrote:
         | I've read the latest Weir book (Project Hail Mary) and the two
         | prominent Watts books (Blindsight and Echopraxia) recently and
         | they were all memorable but frustrating.
         | 
         | Weir writes like a blogger who also writes script treatments
         | but doesn't actually read novels. He throws plot at you every
         | page ("ok so this happened so I need to do this next") which
         | makes his books readable, but he has zero character
         | development. His characters appear, react to external stimuli
         | and solve problems, but don't change over time.
         | 
         | Watts's books, on the other hand, could use some of Weir's plot
         | juice. Very cool ideas and interesting scenes, but the plots
         | were hard to discern. I had no idea what needed to happen to
         | resolve conflict most of the time. Echopraxia was particularly
         | confusing. Watts did a Reddit AMA shortly after Echopraxia came
         | out where he was put on the spot to explain fundamental plot
         | elements.
         | 
         | Watts Reddit AMA:
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2enwks/iama_science_f...
         | 
         | Watts also gave a real-sounding lecture on vampirism, which is
         | enjoyable if you liked that in his books:
         | https://youtu.be/wEOUaJW05bU?si=6fTMtmf9yA8JT9at
        
           | hnmullany wrote:
           | I also found Echopraxia extremely confusing and had to read
           | that AMA to figure out what the hell I just read.
        
         | BLKNSLVR wrote:
         | I loved both of those books and their depictions of 'alien',
         | each for their own reasons.
         | 
         | Project Hail Mary is more... warm and fuzzy, but then one
         | doesn't read Peter Watts for warm and fuzzy...
        
         | Annual wrote:
         | Blindsight was the only sci Fi book I ever read that had
         | citations used non-ironically.
        
           | orbisvicis wrote:
           | It would be a stretch to call _Tlon, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius_
           | science fiction, but like many of Borge 's works is packed
           | with references and footnotes.
        
         | woleium wrote:
         | Solaris by Stanislaw Lem is the most alien alien i have ever
         | read. I read the old translation, but there is a new one now
         | (2011 by Bill Johnston ) direct from polish rather than via
         | french first
        
           | tialaramex wrote:
           | Golem XIV also gets at the fact that an artificial
           | intelligence needn't be anything like us either. The titular
           | Golem is capable of communicating with us but finds the
           | experience very frustrating because we're so very stupid,
           | while the perhaps even more intelligent Honest Annie doesn't
           | communicate with humans and is postulated to treat them the
           | same way we treat flies, a nuisance deserving no great
           | thought.
        
         | mariusor wrote:
         | If you're able to look past the "hard-sci-fi" vampires. I know
         | I wasn't.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | The depiction of the alien is something I really liked about
         | that book - the concept of having to cooperate with an alien
         | species rather than with being subjugated or subjugating, was
         | refreshingly new (for me).
        
           | BobaFloutist wrote:
           | If you liked that, may I suggest the Foreigner series by C.J.
           | Cherryh, or, really, almost anything else by her. But
           | especially the Foreigner series.
        
       | sausagefeet wrote:
       | The Stars are Legion by Kameron Hurley is a really great, and
       | different read. Totally different world than a lot of sci-fi.
        
         | themadturk wrote:
         | It was a difficult book for me, but it was worth powering my
         | way through it.
        
       | _s_a_m_ wrote:
       | The problem with Project Hail Mary is that the audio book is good
       | but the book is not. First read the book and then listen to the
       | audio book and you know what I mean.
        
         | closewith wrote:
         | That's interesting. I found Project Hail Mary to be once of the
         | most disappointing second novels ever written and am surprised
         | at its reception. Is the audiobook meaningfully different?
        
           | _s_a_m_ wrote:
           | Yeah I also didn't like the book at all, it read like a cash
           | grab. However, just listen to a sample of the audio book,
           | it's just hilarious how much effort Ray put into making the
           | characters become alive. Certain significantly improving the
           | lack of writing, of course it can't fix the writing.
        
             | bwb wrote:
             | Please be kind; being an author is an incredibly hard
             | career, and people do it for the love of creating and
             | sharing a story. It is not a cash grab, and if you don't
             | like his writing style, just don't read his books. Books
             | are deeply personal and no reason to make a personal attack
             | because it isn't a match for your desired book style.
        
               | marliechiller wrote:
               | The great thing about opinions, as youve pointed out with
               | books, is that you can disregard them. Personally, I
               | agree that PHM was not particularly good compared with
               | The Martian, but to each their own.
        
               | BobaFloutist wrote:
               | I thought PHM was a fairly well crafted nerdy action
               | book, like a classic B-movie catered to a more educated
               | audience. It's good at tuning itself to its target
               | audience and maintaining interest with pacing and
               | interesting, fun ideas.
               | 
               | What's frustrating is the number of people that list it
               | as the best sci-fi of the last decade and try to elevate
               | it as doing something truly groundbreaking. I don't
               | really understand where that's coming from.
        
           | bwb wrote:
           | I liked it, he has his own style, and I love the
           | "productivity porn" vibe of it. Sometimes I need that in this
           | wild world.
        
           | mariusor wrote:
           | For pedantry's sake, "Project Hail Mary" is not Weir's second
           | novel. I think "Artemis" followed after The Martian. It's a
           | story set on the Moon with a strong female character, but I
           | can't remember much else about it. :D
        
         | lynx23 wrote:
         | I am curious, is the audio book abridged and the book far too
         | long? Or what else could it be?
        
           | _s_a_m_ wrote:
           | In my opinion Andy Weir is not a very good writer anyways, he
           | is ok. When the story is interesting enough that is typically
           | fine, like in The Martian. Hail Mary is too long certainly,
           | characters a little flat, however, Ray can fix the flat
           | characters in the audio book a little with his good voice
           | acting.
        
           | progbits wrote:
           | Without getting into spoilers, the very high quality
           | narration makes the story better.
        
             | Suppafly wrote:
             | I can understand people preferring to have things narrated
             | to them, but I fail to see how narration can make a book
             | from something you don't like at all into something you
             | like. Ultimately no matter how good the narration is,
             | either you like the story or you don't.
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | I also found the film of _The Martian_ way better than the
         | book. I got so sick of reading about concentrations of gases
         | and stuff in painful detail. So yeah, good story, but not so
         | good writing. If _Project Hail Mary_ is anything like that then
         | I 'll give it a miss.
        
           | dagw wrote:
           | If you didn't like the 'painful detail' in The Martian, you
           | will positively hate Project Hail Mary. Much more of the
           | 'painful detail' as you call it with much less interesting
           | characters. If you loved The Martian (like I did) and enjoy
           | lots of random science-ish tangents and pseudo-engineering
           | problem solving, you'll find stuff to like in this book. But
           | it is a too long, worse written version of The Martian, with
           | a less interesting protagonist.
           | 
           | Weir tries to make the story more interesting by adding an
           | extra mystery to solve (the main character wakes up with
           | amnesia and has to piece together where he is and what he has
           | to do), but to me it really didn't work.
        
             | tokai wrote:
             | >worse written version of The Martian, with a less
             | interesting protagonist
             | 
             | That is actually impressive if true. Watney was by far the
             | worst thing about the book.
        
         | sevensor wrote:
         | Weir doesn't write characters, or dialog to speak of, but he
         | writes decent prose and well thought out engineering puzzles. I
         | enjoy his books for the imaginative exercise.
        
         | Suppafly wrote:
         | >the audio book is good but the book is not
         | 
         | I don't know how that can possibly make sense.
        
           | redfern314 wrote:
           | It's difficult to explain without spoilers... one of the
           | characters feels significantly more fleshed out and real
           | because of some artistic choices in the voice acting.
           | 
           | I am not sure I'd go as far as GP and say that the book is
           | not good, but this is one of the cases where the audiobook
           | feels more like a "production" and not just a book in a
           | different medium.
        
           | cmpalmer52 wrote:
           | I found the audiobook to be a superior experience to reading
           | the book as well. It think PHM is an excellent primer on that
           | type of SF for someone who hasn't read something like it
           | before. My daughter, who never reads hard SF, loved the
           | audiobook.
           | 
           | I once commented on Twitter that the Anansi Boys audiobook
           | read by Lenny Henry was better than the book. Neil Gaiman
           | responded, "I agree".
        
           | tiltowait wrote:
           | The performance can make a big difference. There are books I
           | like more as audiobooks and books I like more as visual
           | books.
           | 
           | I read PHM and didn't love it; my friends who listened to it
           | all loved it. Maybe I should give it a try.
        
       | justinclift wrote:
       | Can't really take the recommendation for Beacon 23 seriously
       | after seeing the 1/2 half of the first tv episode. That was utter
       | crap and nonsensical. :(
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | I didn't know there was a tv series for this one. I read the
         | book ages ago; pretty OK. I wouldn't judge it by any failed
         | attempt to put it out on TV.
         | 
         | The same author also wrote the silo series. He tends to push
         | his books out in small portions but it's effectively a trilogy.
         | The series on Apple TV for that is actually pretty good. I
         | reread the books after completing season 1 a few months ago.
        
           | justinclift wrote:
           | Thanks. Tried to get into the series too, but end up just
           | reading the summary of things and the whole series just
           | sounds depressing. :(
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | It is. One of the sequels was one of the times that a scene
             | in a book actually made me cry.
             | 
             | If you don't like depressing novels, also stay away from
             | Stephen Baxter; I love his novels, but most of them are
             | wildly depressing.
        
               | justinclift wrote:
               | > Stephen Baxter
               | 
               | Oh. I don't remember those being depressing though it's
               | been years since I read any.
               | 
               | Which ones do you remember being that way?
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | Ya TV adaptations can fail for so many reasons that a book
         | succeeds at. I've read so many books that when translated to a
         | visual medium fail because of the people involved, see Wheel of
         | Time as that one was so bad...
        
       | justinclift wrote:
       | A _good_ sci-fi book is Birds of Paradise by Rudolf Kremers, who
       | was one of the developers for the PS3 game Eufloria back in the
       | day:
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C8XVRQBC
        
       | musha68k wrote:
       | More modern / post cyberpunk maybe but would add Infinite Detail
       | by Tim Maughan. I really liked the premise and the organic feel
       | vs a lot of other science fiction.
       | 
       | https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374175412/infinitedetail
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | Another set is CS Lewis' Space Trilogy
       | 
       | Out of the Silent Planet Perelandra That Hideous Strength
       | 
       | Note that like a lot of CS Lewis, there is a very heavy Christian
       | view.
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | We've had 5 authors actually pick that one as a favorite, and
         | they connected it to some really interesting book lists:
         | https://shepherd.com/book/that-hideous-strength/book-lists
         | 
         | I love seeing something like this as it is awesome where their
         | minds go for what other books they connect it with...
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | While not Sci-Fi, I found that _The Screwtape Letters_ could
         | actually be enjoyed even from a fairly agnostic perspective, as
         | an allegorical dive into human cognitive foibles.
         | 
         | Though I suspect Lewis would be unhappy to hear that,
         | especially since he wrote a fourth-wall-adjacent bit about
         | devils preferring that humans don't believe in them.
        
         | mrob wrote:
         | Lewis was clearly intelligent and well educated in the
         | humanities, but I don't think he ever cared much about science.
         | IMO, the Space Trilogy is good writing but bad sci-fi.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | In "Of Other Worlds", in a conversation with Brian Aldiss and
           | Kinsley Amis (or Martin Amis? Don't remember), he says that
           | he had a rocket take Ransom to Mars, but he knew better by
           | the time he wrote the second book, and had angels take Ransom
           | to Venus. That is, he wasn't trying to write hard science
           | fiction; he was trying to write stuff where you were
           | confronted with "the unknown". Fantasy and science fiction
           | were both aimed at that, but fantasy was better, because you
           | didn't have to worry about the rules of actual science.
           | 
           | He also said (quoting from memory): "If I were briefed to
           | attack my own books, I would say that though the scientist
           | has to be a physicist for the plot, his concern seems to be
           | almost exclusively biological. I would also ask whether it
           | was credible that such a gas-bag could invent a mousetrap,
           | let alone a spaceship. But then, I wanted comedy as well as
           | adventure."
        
         | themadturk wrote:
         | Of the three, I always loved _That Hideous Strength_ the most.
         | The first two, which I think are good, were too much like
         | travelogs, but the third had a pretty decent story.
        
       | nicolas_t wrote:
       | Let me throw my hat in the ring. I'd recommend Grass by Sheri S
       | Tepper. It felt fresh and original in a way few science fiction
       | books are, the characters are really well done and it just stays
       | with you. Despite being the first book of a trilogy, it works
       | well on its own.
        
         | ms_katonic wrote:
         | Yes!!! I would also recommend anything by Zenna Henderson.
        
           | fractallyte wrote:
           | Now there's a name I hear very rarely...
           | 
           | The best start is Pilgrimage: The Book of the People,
           | _especially_ suitable for a moody teen girl...
           | 
           | (And I wish I could know the story of the Bells of Couvron!)
        
       | hailpixel wrote:
       | I love this genre, and there is such a plethora of interesting
       | reads. I think one of the most interesting, in terms of
       | presenting technology's role in varied societies, is A Fire Upon
       | the Deep by Vernor Vinge. Great read if you are bored of the
       | classic space opera.
        
         | lapcat wrote:
         | > A Fire Upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
         | 
         | It's a great book, but everyone has heard of it already.
        
           | mmcdermott wrote:
           | I was talking to a fairly avid scifi reader who hadn't heard
           | of the book before.
           | 
           | It's always someone's day to be one of 10,000.
           | 
           | https://xkcd.com/1053/
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | I really like that, but I definitely thought _A Deepness in the
         | Sky_ was even better despite probably being considered
         | "classic space opera".
        
         | arethuza wrote:
         | And the prequel _A Deepness in the Sky_ is even better with
         | very alien aliens (and a neat way of hiding that alien-ness
         | from readers) and some very nasty antagonists with truly
         | terrifying technology in the form of  "focus".
         | 
         | Mind you, Vinge's _Rainbows End_ is also really good and set in
         | the near future with what may be an emerging AGI as a key
         | character.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Vinge is one of my favorite authors, but the rape-y torture-y
           | subplot of _Deepness_ was difficult to endure.
        
           | orbisvicis wrote:
           | Huh, I think that features one of the protagonists from _Fast
           | Times at Fairmont High_. Set in the early singularity age.
        
       | anotherpaul wrote:
       | I really like the shepherd.com way of curating the
       | recommendation. Browsing trough books and picking something to
       | read has become much easier this way.
       | 
       | One scifi book that was very impactful to me is the black cloud
       | by Fred Hoyle. It's such a well thought out story and has held up
       | remarkably well for a 50 year old novel.
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | Thanks so much, that is super motivating for me :)
         | 
         | I am working to really improve genre and topic accuracy this
         | winter. Right now it is a mess. The data we pull in from
         | publishers is so messy. They don't know how to use the BISAC
         | classification system and they often mislabel sci-fi (among
         | others). I have a big upgrade coming to improve both our
         | systems (we use NLP/ML on the topic side).
        
       | bwb wrote:
       | hi all, founder of Shepherd here :)
       | 
       | If you want to share your 3 fav reads of the year, you can do
       | that here -> https://shepherd.com/bboy/my-3-fav-reads
       | 
       | You get a cool page like this ->
       | https://shepherd.com/bboy/2024/f/bwb
       | 
       | Plus, it goes into our "best books of 2024" voting ->
       | https://shepherd.com/bboy/2024
       | 
       | I am slowly getting more into place on this website, I have been
       | working on it for 3.5 years now.
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | The SF Masterworks series is a good source of forgotten classics
       | in amongst the many super popular picks:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF_Masterworks
        
       | daoboy wrote:
       | The Bobiverse Series by Dennis Taylor.
       | 
       | These books aren't anything that will change your life, but
       | they're well written and a lot of fun.
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | This is one of my all-time favorite series. I laugh so much
         | reading them, and the later books go heavy into really
         | interesting alien species. Authors love them as well:
         | https://shepherd.com/search/book/38814
         | 
         | Have you read any Peter Hamilton? He is another fav of mine.
        
           | daoboy wrote:
           | I have not read Peter Hamilton, but always looking for new
           | good books. Thanks for the recommendation!
        
             | bwb wrote:
             | I'd start with Pandora's Star, they are HUGE in scope, so
             | its a big book but worth it IMO.
        
               | BillSaysThis wrote:
               | I'd start with the Night's Dawn trilogy, I've read most
               | PFH except for his last few and those are my ATFs.
        
               | themadturk wrote:
               | Night's Dawn was the first Hamilton I read...and I've
               | read it once or twice since.
        
               | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
               | I've found the Mandel Trilogy to be entertaining, too.
               | Could be thought of as some world-building for the much
               | later ND? But not as _epic_. Just three normal
               | paperbacks.
        
         | esperent wrote:
         | I listened to this series as an audiobook and I enjoyed it a
         | lot. I prefer reading to listening but this one worked really
         | well and has a great narrator. It's a good series too, simple
         | fun with decent jokes and a well paced plot.
        
           | dartharva wrote:
           | Seconded, Ray Porter is just too good of a narrator and
           | whatever he does almost always tends to be entertaining.
        
         | strofocles wrote:
         | I wonder how much "well written" is a matter of taste (I
         | thought it wasn't that much). I found "We Are Legion" very
         | poorly written although I loved the premise and really wanted
         | to read it but couldn't go any further then maybe a quarter of
         | it. It also happened to me with Murakami's Kafka On The Shore
         | but I blame that on the translation or some cultural impedance
         | mismatch.
        
       | alphan0n wrote:
       | Just finished a very good audiobook, Fractal Noise by Christopher
       | Paolini and started another, To Sleep in a Sea of Stars by the
       | same author.
        
         | capecodes wrote:
         | To Sleep in a Sea of Stars is my favorite of the last few
         | years.
         | 
         | I thought Fractal Noise was meh by comparison
        
       | idoubtit wrote:
       | It's strange to start a list of "books that you may never have
       | heard of" with a novel which is a nominee to the 2020 Hugo
       | Awards. I suppose that most of the regular readers of sci-fi
       | haver heard of it.
       | 
       | A nitpick about the third recommandation with "robots modeled on
       | Karel Capek's designs". I suppose that they have not read Capek's
       | novels. His robots were not pure machines, they were made from a
       | biological substrate. In a way, they were closer to golems than
       | to what we're now calling robots.
       | 
       | If you want to read really different and lesser known novels,
       | Karel Capek's are a good choice. I did not enjoy "R.O.R." much
       | except for his surprising concept of robots, but I highly
       | recommend "War with the newts".
        
         | themadturk wrote:
         | Yeah, _Project Hail Mary_ was the only one of the three I 'd
         | ever heard of. Still, it was a great book (especially since I
         | read it right on the heels of reading _Artemis_ , which was
         | only "okay").
        
           | Supermancho wrote:
           | I heard there might be a movie adaptation of Project Hail
           | Mary, starring Ryan Gosling.
        
             | bwb wrote:
             | oh wow, that could be cool! I love seeing more sci-fi come
             | to the screen. I really liked The Expanse and wish they had
             | kept that going...
        
               | belter wrote:
               | Nah, that was just news coverage...You Inners really
               | think it was just a show?
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | It's hard for me to picture Ryan Gosling in the role of
             | Ryland Grace.
        
               | zem wrote:
               | maybe he's the alien, then!
        
               | pavel_lishin wrote:
               | That I would be on board with.
        
             | cmpalmer52 wrote:
             | It just completed filming, coming out in 2026.
        
           | lancesells wrote:
           | I didn't read Project Hail Mary because I read Artemis. Maybe
           | I'll have to check it out. :)
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | You should - it's significantly better.
        
             | tiltowait wrote:
             | I loved The Martian, actively disliked Artemis, and thought
             | Project Hail Mary was all right. I liked it overall, but it
             | never really clicked for me like The Martian did.
             | Definitely worth a read, though! Most seem to have liked it
             | more than I did.
        
       | lowdownbutter wrote:
       | Credit for not assuming to know the reader by saying something
       | like "Sci-fi books that you've never heard of!". I now routinely
       | block youtube channels that do such things.
        
       | mnky9800n wrote:
       | Actually I made a website that's mostly sci-fi books I've read
       | 
       | https://mnky9800n.github.io/booklist/
       | 
       | It uses a google spreadsheet as a database so you just need to
       | update the spreadsheet and it adds a book to the website.
       | 
       | I have a life goal to read every thing written by Phillip k dick
       | as well as every book on David Pringle's 100 best sci-fi list.
       | Some of the books are hard to find though. Like I've been
       | searching for years for the peoples republic of Antarctica.
       | 
       | I would suggest the following novels if you haven't read them yet
       | 
       | Gene wolfe shadow of the torturer series aka book of the new sun
       | 
       | A scanner darkly by pkd, this, imo, is his best book even though
       | all his books are compelling. But I think also, yes we can build
       | him, its amazing because it really shows off pkd ability to come
       | up with a wild premise but that's simply the universe the
       | characters live in and they don't really care about that premise
       | they have other problems.
       | 
       | Herovits world by malzburg, this book is hilarious and about how
       | you must be a terrible narcissist to believe someone should read
       | your fiction especially science fiction
       | 
       | The Brian Daley series about Han Solo, these are super
       | interesting because they were written in 1979 so before empire
       | strikes back came out. So Daley basically only had Star Wars to
       | go on to create a whole trilogy of novels starring Han Solo. I
       | think these are probably my favourite Star Wars novels because
       | they have such little constraints.
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | Nice, I like the photos, classic covers are so beautiful :)
         | 
         | Added the Brian Daley series about Solo to my list, I'd never
         | heard of those!
        
           | mnky9800n wrote:
           | I should reread them. They are so much fun. I'm the only
           | person I know who has ever read them. Although that's not
           | saying much I suppose haha.
        
             | bwb wrote:
             | One of my hopes for the website is I could help books that
             | are lesser known get noticed and "pop." Working on getting
             | more to help in that capacity as there are so many good
             | books that don't get enough notice. Aiming to come out with
             | some features this Winter to help around that.
        
         | tiltowait wrote:
         | Though I wouldn't say A Scanner Darkly is my favorite PKD
         | novel, I'd have a harder time arguing it isn't his _best_. I
         | can see it; it was just too heavy for me to actually enjoy all
         | that much.
         | 
         | Ubik is probably my favorite, or (to be cliche) Androids.
         | 
         | PKD says more in single paragraphs than many authors manage to
         | say in entire books.
        
       | mariusor wrote:
       | After I finished the two Frank Kittridge novels from S.J. Morden
       | I was surprised I haven't heard of him until now.
       | 
       | They start as a "The Martian" cribbed story, but the development
       | arc takes in better places. It was less geek/efficiency porn and
       | more character development and required less strain on my
       | suspension of disbelief overall.
        
       | mostlysimilar wrote:
       | > Ever since reading Heir to the Empire (Timothy Zahn), I've been
       | fascinated by science fiction stories with amazing characters and
       | intriguing concepts.
       | 
       | Did an LLM write this? "Amazing characters" and "intriguing
       | concepts"? This sentence says nothing.
        
         | readthenotes1 wrote:
         | It's a stealth ad for the author's book. If you think the
         | advertising copy was written by an llm, I'm pretty sure that
         | says you won't like his book :-)
        
           | bwb wrote:
           | It's a way for new or unknown authors to authentically
           | connect with readers by sharing five books they love on a
           | topic, theme, or mood they are passionate about or experts
           | in. Readers get fantastic personalized picks by super
           | readers, and authors get to bump into some readers who might
           | be more interested in them and their books.
           | 
           | Authors face an immense battle to get noticed, and unless
           | something is done, we will only have big brand-name authors
           | who can afford to write full-time. The internet has really
           | consolidated books into a winner-takes-all market, and I want
           | to do what I can to help widen that so new authors have a
           | chance.
           | 
           | If you are curious, here are my goals for readers:
           | https://build.shepherd.com/p/what-is-shepherds-mission-
           | for-r...
           | 
           | Here are my goals for authors:
           | https://support.shepherd.com/hc/en-
           | us/articles/4406508361617...
           | 
           | And here is why I am building Shepherd for myself and others:
           | https://build.shepherd.com/p/why-am-i-building-shepherd-
           | ie-w...
           | 
           | Hope that helps; happy to answer questions :)
        
             | mostlysimilar wrote:
             | I respect and appreciate what you're doing here, my
             | flippant remark was critical of the author's writing style,
             | not of your app or its structure.
        
               | bwb wrote:
               | Gotcha, and no worries :)
               | 
               | I work with authors daily and know how hard they work to
               | create a story for us. Most will never earn back the time
               | they put into creating that book. Some books and writing
               | are not a match for what we personally like. I just hope
               | we can say, "It wasn't a match for what I like," rather
               | than accusing an author of using an LLM. I loose my cool
               | sometimes as well, and trying to remind myself to stick
               | to this code (as I know I create plenty of bad writing
               | that I inflict on readers of my blogs).
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | Gosh, no, we have a strict anti-AI policy, and every author we
         | work with agrees to an honor statement that they will always
         | write everything themselves.
         | 
         | I've caught a few dishonest authors, and they get banned from
         | the website forever.
        
       | larry314 wrote:
       | Nunquam by Lawrence Durrell. Not generally heard of because you
       | have to read Tunc first which is not science fiction. Both are
       | great and stylistic masterpieces. Numquam is my favorite robot
       | book along with Caves of Steel.
        
       | patrickhogan1 wrote:
       | Planetside by Michael Mammay
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | I love this series, just about to read the newest entry!
        
       | okkdev wrote:
       | Any recommendations for books with good made up
       | technology/programming/cyberspace? I love alternate versions of
       | the internet and ways to navigate it. I love hearing completely
       | original but coherent technical babble with 0 connection to it's
       | real world counterpart.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | programming: tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow by gabrielle
         | zevin is about game development.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | I'm assuming you like this idea from having read Snow Crash,
         | but if not that's exactly what you're looking for
         | 
         | But recommending Neal Stephenson on HN feels a bit like telling
         | people to try Dennys as a restaurant recommendation... it seems
         | everyone on here has read him before
        
       | lubujackson wrote:
       | I recommend The Tripod Trilogy by John Christopher. As a kid I
       | read The White Mountains blind and the story unfolded in a
       | fantastic way for me. It is YA sci-fi and a lot of the themes are
       | well-trodden at this point, but the story is strong and clear,
       | kind of a coming-of-age-amongst-aliens.
        
         | 0x38B wrote:
         | I read the Tripod Trilogy to my little brother and we both
         | loved the story. It's one of my favorites to this day. Going
         | further back, I also liked Wells's "The First Men in the Moon".
        
         | stevekemp wrote:
         | There was a TV series back in the 80s which I really enjoyed -
         | I actually checked out the books from the local library after
         | having seen the show at the time.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tripods_(TV_series)
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | The audiobook is excellent.
        
       | orbisvicis wrote:
       | Here are some which, though perhaps not the best, haunt my memory
       | through unique nostalgia.
       | 
       |  _Glory Season_ , David Brin. Ok, this is one of the best. A
       | heartrending saga of epic scale.
       | 
       |  _Carve the Sky_ , Alexander Jablokov. Scifi feudalism.
       | 
       |  _All of an Instant_ , Richard Garfinkle.
       | 
       |  _Vita Nostra_ , Marina & Sergey Dyachenko. Though very
       | different, it somehow reminds me of _Roadside Picnic_.
       | 
       |  _Spin_ , Robert Charles Wilson.
       | 
       |  _Schismatrix_ , Bruce Sterling.
       | 
       |  _Interstellar Pig_ , William Sleator.
       | 
       |  _The Carpet Makers_ , Andreas Eschbach
       | 
       | The _Threshold_ series (Peter Clines) doesn 't really belong in
       | this list, but it is excellent and from what I gather, commonly
       | overlooked by fans of Lovecraft.
       | 
       | I'd also throw in _The Sparrow_ , Mary Doria Russel, if it wasn't
       | so well known already.
       | 
       | In a different vein, if you seek good-old action-packed, kick-ass
       | never-ending fun, pick anything by Larry Correia. Even if it
       | appears fantasy, it might turn out to be scifi...
        
         | stevekemp wrote:
         | Interstellar Pig, was an unexpected addition there. I
         | remembered that book immediately from hearing the title!
         | 
         | (On that note I remember a book I read at a similar time, some
         | kids took off in a hollow asteroid, for reasons, and there was
         | a home-made aiming system for their weapon(s) which involved
         | using a cat. I've no idea what it was called or who wrote it.
         | But I guess similar young-adult fiction.)
        
           | rsynnott wrote:
           | > and there was a home-made aiming system for their weapon(s)
           | which involved using a cat
           | 
           | Truth is, of course, sometimes stranger than fiction:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pigeon
        
         | dur-randir wrote:
         | >Vita Nostra, Marina & Sergey Dyachenko
         | 
         | That's far from their best novel, but unfortunately most aren't
         | translated into English - there're Polish and sometimes Deutsch
         | translations only :(
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >That's far from their best novel, but unfortunately most
           | aren't translated into English
           | 
           | It's so good, if their others are better it's insane that
           | they haven't been translated yet.
        
       | bodantogat wrote:
       | Lord of Light, Roger Zelazny Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith
       | Hospital Station by James White
       | 
       | More recent read, you may have heard of it since it won an award
       | - In Ascension by Martin MacInnes
        
       | orbisvicis wrote:
       | I find it disappointing how A.E. van Vogt has been almost
       | completely forgotten. And to a lesser extent, Poul Anderson.
        
       | ryandvm wrote:
       | I want to do book recommendations from the other direction. I
       | need to know which books to avoid based on the books people like.
       | 
       | For example, if I hated _The Three Body Problem_ and you loved
       | it, then I 'm probably going to hate the other books you love.
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | True. I hated the three body problem in fact but I loved the
         | expanse (yes both franchises I know from TV). But I read all
         | the expanse books. I gave up on the three body problem halfway
         | the second book, I just found the story too boring and
         | hardball.
         | 
         | Not saying the books are bad but preferences differ indeed.
        
         | __rito__ wrote:
         | That's a poor way to find good books?
         | 
         | I liked 3BP, and I also liked Permutation City and
         | Cryptonomicon. Yet I met a lot of people who didn't like 3BP,
         | but liked the latter ones.
        
           | romanhn wrote:
           | Hah, and I liked 3BP but didn't care much for Egan's books
           | (excellent ideas, poor writing IMO).
        
         | OnionBlender wrote:
         | Just because someone liked a book you hate, doesn't mean you
         | will hate the other books they like.
         | 
         | I hated "Sea of Tranquility". I can't stand stupid characters.
         | 
         | "Furtuna" was so bad I made a note to avoid any other books by
         | Kristyn Merbeth. The main character is stupid, selfish, and
         | short sighted to the detriment of everyone around her.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >Just because someone liked a book you hate, doesn't mean you
           | will hate the other books they like.
           | 
           | So much this, and it's why recommendation engines mostly
           | don't work well, they really have no way to quantify why you
           | liked or disliked something.
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | I think it depends on _why_ someone disliked a book.
         | 
         | I liked the first novel in the Three Body Problem series, but
         | mostly because it exposed me to a culture I wasn't really
         | familiar with; there was a lot about China I didn't know, and
         | it was interesting to read about characters who lived and
         | breathed that history.
         | 
         | But the rest of the novel, and the sequels, mostly to me felt
         | like re-treading ground that I'd already walked in other
         | novels, which did a better job of exploring those ideas.
         | 
         | (To be more specific, because I'm sure folks will ask - I think
         | Stephen Baxter does a better job of building interesting,
         | mostly-consistent-to-my-eye universe-wide physics puzzles,
         | although nearly all of his books are depressing as hell. The
         | closest thing to a happy ending in most of his novels is "it's
         | not a complete genocide!")
        
         | bwb wrote:
         | Ya I am working on this :)
         | 
         | Our new Book DNA review format has you pick why you
         | disliked/loved/liked a book and I am going to use that data to
         | help build a profile of similar types of readers.
         | 
         | You can try it here by sharing your 3 fav books of 2024 ->
         | https://shepherd.com/bboy/my-3-fav-reads
         | 
         | Next year I will roll it out for all books as we get more in
         | place.
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | Project Hail Mary was good, but I thought Artemis (also by Weir)
       | was amazing. I wish he'd make a sequel.
        
       | randrus wrote:
       | Samuel Delaney - Nova, Babel-17
       | 
       | Clifford Simak - City
       | 
       | Alan E Nourse - The Universe Between
        
       | ajuc wrote:
       | For me:
       | 
       | - His Master's Voice by Stanislaw Lem
       | 
       | - Permutation City (and the whole trilogy) by Greg Egan
       | 
       | - Anathem by Neal Stephenson
        
       | thegyppo wrote:
       | Dungeon Crawler Carl is a rare gem that I've come across lately,
       | very unique, paces well and I couldn't put it down -
       | https://www.goodreads.com/series/309211-dungeon-crawler-carl
       | 
       | The audiobook is also really well narrated.
        
         | wilted-iris wrote:
         | You may also enjoy the Expeditionary Force series. Totally
         | different story, but it has a similar vibe.
        
         | rfarley04 wrote:
         | I was so skeptical when my recommended the series. It sounds so
         | juvenile and low brow but is actually SO GOOD. Both funny and
         | genuinely well written and structured. Love that it's doing as
         | well as it is
        
         | kamarg wrote:
         | You may also like Will Wight's Cradle series. It's an american
         | style of Xianxia/Cultivation novels but very good. The
         | audiobooks are also highly praised.
        
       | xeonax wrote:
       | The Wandering Inn [1], Stories of an alternate world somehow
       | connected to a certain innkeeper of the said inn.
       | 
       | Features extensive world building, character building, Lots of
       | fleshed out characters, contains humour as well as serious stuff,
       | has dragons, fae, aliens, time travel, hiveminds, automatons,
       | cute pets, cosmic horrors, history lessons, magic, alchemy and
       | steampunk engineering.
       | 
       | It's a bit longish and not finished yet, 2/3 done as of this
       | year.
       | 
       | [1]: https://wanderinginn.com/
        
         | codetheweb wrote:
         | I love the Wandering Inn but calling it "a bit longish" is
         | quite an understatement.
        
           | xeonax wrote:
           | Ok it's a bit longer, only a little bit.
           | 
           | See for yourself https://www.reddit.com/r/WanderingInn/commen
           | ts/wil9pi/word_c...
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | OT, but I'm legitimately surprised that WoT is longer than
             | the saga of recluse.
             | 
             | I'm also a very mildly annoyed that they included several
             | era-spanning series on the list, but limited Dragonlance to
             | the chronicles trillogy, despite that including followups
             | by the original authors (Legends, Second generations).
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | I'm only on the second volume, but so far I wouldn't call it
         | Sci-Fi; it's pretty much straight-up fantasy (specifically a
         | portal-fantasy with string LitRPG elements) so far.
         | 
         | I suppose there could be a "It's all a VR game" or "It's alien
         | mind control" twist that I haven't gotten to yet.
        
       | exar0815 wrote:
       | If you liked The Martian and Project Hail Mary, two books I
       | cannot recommend enough are Daniel Suarez' Delta-V and Critical
       | Mass. Highly technical focused hard-sci-fi about asteroid mining
       | and human dynamics in high-risk envrionments. I can't vouch for
       | the absolute factual correctness, but it has an appendix listing
       | the papers the author indirectly references for the book.
       | 
       | https://daniel-suarez.com/index.html
        
         | TrapLord_Rhodo wrote:
         | Do you know any other hard sci-fi books like this? I loved the
         | Delta-V series, and have been looking for hard sci-fi like it
         | ever since.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Shipwreck by Charles Logan.
       | 
       | Magnificent hard sci fi about an astronaut crashed on a distant
       | world after their colony ship suffers a catastrophic accident as
       | it reaches a distant star system.
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/Shipwreck-Panther-science-fiction-Cha...
       | 
       | You will never feel more bleak and alone.
        
       | MrVandemar wrote:
       | I'd throw in _The Saga of Exiles_ by Julian May. Excellent
       | exploration of psi power, set in Pliocene Europe (by way of time
       | travel). Sounds mad, but May both grounds her characters and
       | casts them archetypes, and it 's fantastically dramatic.
       | 
       | One of the first books I read where the cumulative trauma and
       | psychologies of the main characters inform their actions.
        
       | marliechiller wrote:
       | No mention of Peter Watts' Blindsight? That book changed all
       | sorts of notions of first contact and consciousness for me. I'm
       | still thinking about it to this day. Absolute must read for
       | anyone concerned with such things
        
         | block_dagger wrote:
         | And evolutionary vampires!
        
           | justusthane wrote:
           | I loved that about this book. For the first like 75% of the
           | book you're thinking, "Okay, these vampires must just be a
           | metaphor or a name they've given to something else." Nope,
           | just actual vampires.
        
             | kranner wrote:
             | With a novel and not-implausible explanation for why
             | crosses incapacitate them.
        
               | Vecr wrote:
               | Yeah it's implausible. I mean, I don't think his genetics
               | is right. So it's probably physically possible in some
               | sense, but I don't it makes sense that it's that stable
               | of a trait.
        
               | kranner wrote:
               | I think his explanation was that right angles don't
               | appear in nature so the trait didn't get selected out.
        
               | Vecr wrote:
               | I watched the video and that's what the fictional
               | presenter says. I don't think it really makes sense
               | though, but maybe you can get passed that because the
               | species coming into existence at all is so contrived and
               | unlikely?
               | 
               | The vampires appeared to have less of a gene pool and
               | more of a gene cleanroom. Knife edge stuff there.
        
               | Suppafly wrote:
               | >I think his explanation was that right angles don't
               | appear in nature
               | 
               | Which is weird, because they do.
        
               | tmn wrote:
               | My initial reaction to this was, only in approximation.
               | But the cross would also only approximately be a right
               | angle. So good point.
        
               | Suppafly wrote:
               | Lots of minerals break at right angles.
        
         | dahauns wrote:
         | It used the Chinese Room better than Searle ever managed to do.
        
           | Vecr wrote:
           | B. F. Skinner got there first.
        
         | metaphor wrote:
         | > _No mention of Peter Watts ' Blindsight?_
         | 
         | It was a Hugo nominee and actively reprinted under Tor
         | Essentials label; probably doesn't qualify as a book "you may
         | never have heard of"...but to be fair, anything by Andy Weir or
         | Hugh Howey probably shouldn't have made the list either.
        
           | Suppafly wrote:
           | >probably doesn't qualify as a book "you may never have heard
           | of"
           | 
           | That's most of the ones being mentioned in this thread. I
           | think maybe they are scifi books you haven't heard of...if
           | you also don't normally read scifi.
        
         | xyzzy_plugh wrote:
         | You can read the whole thing on his website (that's where I
         | stumbled upon it so many years ago):
         | 
         | https://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm
         | 
         | Likewise, this is one I'll never get out of my head. Fair
         | warning to would-be readers: anticipate the rest of your day
         | becoming unproductive.
        
       | hhhAndrew wrote:
       | Greg Egan. Agree with others in this thread that Permutation City
       | is the most important. But Diaspora is not to be missed either.
       | Egan's unique value prop is: crazy-thought-experiment sci fi (2D
       | world with 2 time dimensions is his latest and is typical) but
       | hard, harder than you can believe. Sci fi so hard, you don't find
       | any cracks and are left thinking wait a minute ... This must be
       | true then?
       | 
       | Gene Wolfe. Book of the new Sun. Wolfe's unique value prop is,
       | create an interesting sci fi or fantastical setting, and tell it
       | through special narrators (unreliable, liar, child, amnesiac,
       | etc) with wonderful skill, producing a puzzle with a lovely
       | solution (that you will only partially solve).
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | > Sci fi so hard, you don't find any cracks and are left
         | thinking wait a minute ... This must be true then?
         | 
         | Egan must be one of the most intelligent people alive... or if
         | not, is at least the highest level I am personally capable of
         | recognizing. I am genuinely curious which is the case. Anyways,
         | I haven't read Diaspora yet so will do so, thanks!
        
           | Vecr wrote:
           | Something being logically consistent doesn't mean it's
           | correct. It's possible someone could make a fully logically
           | consistent version of string theory including future
           | gravitational predictions.
           | 
           | They say "doesn't describe this universe", but that really
           | just means it's wrong.
           | 
           | Edit: replying to pavel_lishin:
           | 
           | Yes, I'm sure Egan knows that, I'm partially replying to the
           | statement "Sci fi so hard, you don't find any cracks and are
           | left thinking wait a minute ... This must be true then?"
        
             | UniverseHacker wrote:
             | Nobody here is claiming everything in Egans books is
             | literally true... but part of the fun is thinking about the
             | possibility that it could be
        
               | Vecr wrote:
               | Almost but not quite literally zero? It probably _is_
               | zero, because he made mistakes, but maybe you could brush
               | that off as a narrator error or something.
        
               | UniverseHacker wrote:
               | Like any book you have to bring an open mind, creativity,
               | and some benefit of the doubt to enjoy it, or to learn
               | anything of value... you seem to be coming from a
               | perspective that would make that impossible.
               | 
               | His books for the most part explore intentionally
               | unlikely but interesting possible implications of
               | legitimate, yet mostly unproven modern math and physics
               | research. Some of it even comes from his own research.
               | 
               | A case in point, I think some of the ideas in his books
               | can help, e.g. a physics student realize where their
               | assumptions about the nature of time and space may be
               | cultural assumptions, not necessarily grounded in
               | scientific evidence. Simply exploring alternate
               | possibilities- even if untrue, is a powerful tool to
               | break through other unfounded perspectives you never
               | thought to question.
               | 
               | I was at one point on the path to become a mathematical
               | physicist but lost interest and pivoted to something
               | else. I do believe if I had found Egans books sooner, I
               | would have been inspired to continue.
        
             | pavel_lishin wrote:
             | > _Something being logically consistent doesn 't mean it's
             | correct._
             | 
             | Amusingly, this is a major plot point in one of his novels.
        
         | cdiamand wrote:
         | Seconding the Book of the New Sun - It's great as a standalone,
         | and the series is rewarding if you keep reading. It's an
         | excellent 'puzzle' of a story as OP stated.
        
         | debo_ wrote:
         | I read Permutation City with great anticipation and really
         | disliked it. My favorite parts were when big ideas met the
         | tedium of execution (like the avatars having to deal with the
         | cost of spot instances, and running in lower-res slower-than-
         | realtime environments.)
         | 
         | I liked Book of the New Sun in a pulpy way. I'm a huge sucker
         | for dying earth settings, and it was great to read one of the
         | originals.
         | 
         | I greatly enjoyed Zelazny's Amber series and have tried to get
         | into some of his sci-fi, but failed. Perhaps it's time to give
         | Lord of Light a third try.
        
           | mmcdermott wrote:
           | Besides Amber, I found Jack of Shadows to be an accessible
           | road into Zelazny.
        
           | zem wrote:
           | I highly recommend the novella "home is the hangman"
        
         | p2detar wrote:
         | Egan is quite active on Mastodon. Toots about science and maths
         | among other things and I gotta say, some of the math stuff he
         | works on seems quite impressive (to me at least).
        
       | TheCloven wrote:
       | The Bobiverse series is one of my favorites, sense of humor meets
       | Bob the von Neumann probe. Well written and plenty of theory
       | explanations of technology. They even pull in Expeditionary
       | Force's AI Skippy as a faction group, which is another good
       | series if you like technical theory in detail explained mostly by
       | the asshole AI.
       | 
       | Murderbot has become a must listen at bedtime, the self
       | deprecating, funny and lovey dovey killing machine. He loves his
       | solitude and media, and has an emotion from time to time.
        
         | 0x3444ac53 wrote:
         | I read murderbot a few years ago and fell in love with it. It's
         | funny, short, has good characters and they develop overtime.
         | The world building is interesting enough but not drowning out
         | the narrative<3
        
           | dartharva wrote:
           | GraphicAudio's adaptations of the Murderbot series are too
           | good! I suggest anyone interested in the series to check that
           | out.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Most definitely, Ray Porter's performances are a masterclass in
         | first-person sci-fi adventure narration.
         | 
         | His Project Hail Mary audiobook is unparalleled.
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | Not a "book", but a short story: The Cold Equations by Tom
       | Godwin.
       | 
       | I read that story when I was pretty young, and it's shaped my
       | opinion on cold, uncaring bureaucracies in a way that I'm not
       | sure anything else could.
        
         | hersko wrote:
         | Looks like it's available for free here:
         | https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/the-cold-equation...
        
       | birabittoh wrote:
       | Star Maker by Olaf Stapledon.
       | 
       | This guy figured out the meaning of life back in 1937.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | An old but excellent book (written in the 1920s in Soviet Russia)
       | is We by Yevgeny Zamyatin
       | 
       | I also like Solaris though I suppose everyone has heard of that
       | one.
        
         | robterrell wrote:
         | Re-reading Stanislaw Lem (i.e. The Cyberiad) in the era of LLMs
         | has been a joy for me.
        
         | cmpalmer52 wrote:
         | I read Solaris years ago and was unimpressed. The philosophy
         | and science'ish elements were poorly described and it felt like
         | a lit-fic attempt at trippy SF by someone ignorant of the
         | genre.
         | 
         | Then, a year or two ago, I read about how bad the early
         | translations were, so I picked up a new English translation.
         | Wow, what a difference. Now it's one of my favorites.
        
       | pavel_lishin wrote:
       | Hugh Howey is a tremendously talented author.
       | 
       | I didn't love Beacon 23, but his Wool series (apparently now a TV
       | series, which I haven't watched yet) is very, _very_ good. Sand
       | is another great novel. Both feature humanity surviving in
       | incredibly hostile environments, doomed to them by their
       | predecessors.
        
       | 05bmckay wrote:
       | Red Rising is a pretty great one, I would have added it to my
       | list.
        
         | yaky wrote:
         | Red Rising is often recommended in lists such as this, and that
         | is how I discovered it too. Worth noting though that the 3/4 of
         | the first book is Hunger Games on Mars, with barely any
         | significance to the plot started in the first part of the book.
        
       | duped wrote:
       | _The Stars are Legion_ and _Alien Clay_ are the two best sci-fi
       | books I 've read in the last year and I don't think they've shown
       | up on any lists, although the latter is another first contact
       | book by the author of _Children of Time_ which has gotten a lot
       | of acclaim (although I didn 't care for it).
       | 
       | FWIW Beacon 23 has an adaptation on Apple TV+ and Project Hail
       | Mary has a film adaptation starring Ryan Gosling that's already
       | finished shooting, so I don't know how long they'll stay in the
       | category of "you may never have heard of"
        
       | mstevens wrote:
       | Random Acts of Senseless Violence - Jack Womack. See
       | https://reactormag.com/randomacts/ for a great review by Jo
       | Walton (also a great scifi author who deserves more attention).
        
       | Larrikin wrote:
       | Is Beacon 23 the book better than the show? I thought I was a
       | general fan of sci-fi, but I realized that I was generally bored
       | all through the first season and had begun hate watching it in
       | season 2 before I stopped all together.
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | Project Hail Mary is soon to be a movie...
       | 
       | https://m.imdb.com/title/tt12042730/
        
       | yaky wrote:
       | The most unusual book I read this year is Radiance by Catherynne
       | Valente.
       | 
       | It's set in an Art-Deco "future" of our fully habitable Solar
       | system (jungles and oceans on Venus, flowering fields on Pluto,
       | etc), that started to be colonized in the 1860s. Of course, it is
       | a play on early science fiction tropes, but somehow, it all fits
       | together.
        
       | dannyobrien wrote:
       | Just because they're both books that are hard to stumble upon and
       | are a bit out of the usual recommendations, and yet everyone I
       | have recommended them to have /deeply/ enjoyed them:
       | 
       | "Constellation Games" by Leonard Richardson (also known for the
       | Beautiful Soup Python library!) https://constellation.crummy.com/
       | 
       | "Happy Snak" by Nicole Kimberling
       | https://www.nicolekimberling.com/happy-snak
        
       | Suppafly wrote:
       | >Sci-fi books that you may never have heard of, but definitely
       | should read
       | 
       | HN thread is full of books I've heard of and that get recommended
       | literally anytime books are mentioned.
        
       | lavelganzu wrote:
       | "Too Like the Lightning" by Ada Palmer. (First of four books
       | called the "Terra Ignota" series.)
       | 
       | It's one of the handful of books that genuinely changed my mind
       | about serious questions -- in my case, relating to gender,
       | politics, & religion. But it's definitely not coming from
       | anywhere you'd expect.
       | 
       | I compare it loosely to Ursula K. LeGuin's "The Dispossessed".
       | The author paints a picture of a utopia, and gradually we see
       | deep human flaws tear it apart. It starts off with investigation
       | of a puzzling criminal tresspass, which slowly spirals upward
       | into greater and greater consequences -- and it intensely rewards
       | careful reading, or a second reading, as major reveals are subtly
       | foreshadowed early and often.
        
       | ang_cire wrote:
       | Legend of the Jade Phoenix trilogy by Robert Thurston:
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/488118.The_Legend_of_the...
       | 
       | Legend of Zero quadrilogy by Sara King:
       | https://www.goodreads.com/series/103017-the-legend-of-zero
        
       | silexia wrote:
       | The Nexus Trilogy is extremely entertaining fast paced sci fi you
       | can't put down with very interesting ideas on upgrading humans.
        
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