[HN Gopher] Jump Trading, Virtu and the 'hidden optical fibre ca...
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       Jump Trading, Virtu and the 'hidden optical fibre cable' under an
       Ohio field
        
       Author : throwaway2037
       Score  : 33 points
       Date   : 2024-10-28 08:46 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
        
       | throwaway2037 wrote:
       | FT Alphaville: High frequency trading
       | 
       | Skywave Networks accuses Wall Street titans of 'continuous
       | racketeering and conspiracy'
       | 
       | FT/Alphaville is blog attached to The Financial Times newspaper.
       | It free to sign-up for an account.
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/2vQm6
        
       | dinkblam wrote:
       | why would a radiowave that is reflected off the atmosphere (and
       | therefore taking the longer route) be faster than a direct fibre
       | cable?
        
         | FredFS456 wrote:
         | Speed of light in an optical fibre is about 2/3 that of the
         | speed in air
        
         | scrlk wrote:
         | Radio waves travel at nearly the speed of light, whereas light
         | in an fiber optic cable travels at ~67% of the speed of light
         | due to the refractive index of glass.
        
           | cypherpunks01 wrote:
           | Ericsson blog wrote:
           | 
           |  _In a vacuum, electro-magnetic waves travel at a speed of
           | 3.336 microseconds (ms) per kilometer (km). Through the air,
           | that speed is a tiny fraction slower, clocking in at 3.337 ms
           | per km, while through a fiber-optic cable it takes 4.937 ms
           | to travel one kilometer - this means that microwave transport
           | is actually 48% faster than fiber-optic, all other things
           | being equal._
        
         | _qua wrote:
         | Light doesn't go at light speed through optical fiber.
        
           | AStonesThrow wrote:
           | By definition, it does, because the maximum speed is
           | qualified by "the speed of light in a vacuum", so the speed
           | of light [in other media] is simply a function of how much
           | the medium slows it down, yet it is still the speed of light.
           | Funny how that works!
        
           | nimish wrote:
           | Sure it does. It's just that the speed of light in non-hollow
           | optical fiber is slower than light in a vacuum.
           | 
           | Microsoft bought a hollow optical fiber company for a reason.
        
       | biomcgary wrote:
       | Other than seemingly perverse incentives, is there a good reason
       | not to quantize trading time?
        
         | mikewarot wrote:
         | I've argued in the past that we should have batch settlements
         | every 30 seconds, instead of in real time. We don't really need
         | microsecond based skimming/front running.
        
           | biomcgary wrote:
           | 30 seconds seems reasonable. Don't the markets themselves
           | make a fair amount of money off of providing fast access to
           | the HFTs? Is that the primary perverse incentive?
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | I've read the arguments that the microsecond trading serves a
           | purpose that benefits all of us, but I fail to see how, even
           | with the explanations.
           | 
           | I'm with you. Every 30 seconds. Cap the power of connection
           | speed in trading. Trading should be based on the value of the
           | item being traded, not on how short the fiber run is.
        
           | harry8 wrote:
           | so now the race is to get the order in (or out) @
           | 29.999999985 seconds or 15nS before the batch deadline.
           | Interesting twist on the game. Unlikely to change who wins
           | it, could it be worse for retail punters?
           | 
           | We need to kill "front running" as a criticism of low-latency
           | algo trding with fire. It's garbage.
           | 
           | Front running is highly illegal and is where a broker knows a
           | client is going to do a big trade due to inside information
           | and trades on the account of others (themselves, typically)
           | to exploit that inside information. It's a straight up cheat.
           | 
           | Inferring from market data alone which way a price will move
           | is legal, honest, been attempted since forever and absolutely
           | fine. Also very, very difficult. Anyone who can do it makes
           | the market more efficient, reduces the money available by
           | doing it (which goes into investors pockets through tighter
           | spreads) and really earns their money. You don't have to like
           | them if you don't want to but it's worlds apart from front
           | running using inside information.
           | 
           | Where did algo trading profit come from? Won by being more
           | competitive from brokers profit with a good chunk of that
           | broker profit going to investors. Spreads are tighter.
           | 
           | Where are the clients' yachts? Well tech did something about
           | the some of the broker ripoffs earning their yachts - which
           | puts money in your pocket.
        
             | aeries wrote:
             | You could randomize the batching deadline.
        
               | harry8 wrote:
               | and it won't help retail investors either.
        
           | usefulcat wrote:
           | If there are multiple orders at the same price on the same
           | side, how should we determine which ones are filled first?
           | 
           | Or put another way, how should we determine which orders are
           | least likely to get filled?
        
           | infecto wrote:
           | Why not 1 minute then?
           | 
           | You have ignored the whole issue of how are you then ordering
           | those contracts in 30second batches?
        
         | usefulcat wrote:
         | If you're talking about something like having an auction (per
         | security) every N seconds, I don't see how that addresses the
         | underlying issue, which is how to determine order priority.
         | 
         | If you have a bunch of orders at the same price on the same
         | side, and an order comes in from the other side that crosses
         | those orders (or there is an auction and there are orders on
         | the other side which cross), how do you decide which of the
         | resting orders at the same price should be filled first?
         | 
         | The most common way is that the first order to arrive at the
         | exchange at that price gets filled first, and for that reason
         | being fast is inherently advantageous.
        
           | ssivark wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
         | infecto wrote:
         | There cases to be made that you get tighter spreads.
        
       | spirobelv2 wrote:
       | mev but for tradfi
        
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