[HN Gopher] Scythe Works Without Borders
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       Scythe Works Without Borders
        
       Author : highway-trees
       Score  : 43 points
       Date   : 2024-10-27 05:13 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scytheworks.ca)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scytheworks.ca)
        
       | HideousKojima wrote:
       | I mean it's an interesting idea, but it's weird to imagine that
       | small time farmers in poor countries are capable of obtaining and
       | using a sickle but are somehow not capable of obtaining and using
       | a scythe.
       | 
       | At least looking for ones here in the US, a decent quality sickle
       | seems to run in the $30-$60 range while places that sell scythes
       | seem to cost $100-$300, so I can't imagine it's some massive
       | price barrier either
        
         | burnte wrote:
         | It's usually lack of knowledge/understanding and simple
         | inertia, "this is how we've always done it."
        
           | broken-kebab wrote:
           | I'm afraid you just dismissed the question, not answered it.
           | Plenty of things changed in agriculture in spite of simple
           | inertia. Why does sickle-for-wheat-scythe-for-hay concept
           | seem to prevail for different cultures in distant lands for
           | so long?
        
             | vdupras wrote:
             | I'm not sure, but what I've read is that there's a loss of
             | grain associated with using the scythe on wheat when it
             | falls on the ground. Maybe it's a concern in some areas.
             | 
             | But I think that with a proper apparel such as the one we
             | see in the video on the website, the fall can be made
             | gentler while still keeping the significant efficiency gain
             | that the scythe offers over the sickle.
        
             | crabbone wrote:
             | Well, with a sickle you hold what you cut, and then you
             | bind it together, so the grain doesn't fall on the ground.
             | With a scythe you will have to somehow pick it up and
             | organize in such a way that you can later collect it
             | (without much dirt stuck to it etc.)
             | 
             | NB. In high-school, I worked one summer cleaning and
             | otherwise maintaining the local after-school building. It
             | had a huge lawn behind it, which I had to trim with a
             | scythe once every few weeks. So, I thought I knew how to do
             | that reasonably well...
             | 
             | And then, one day, some years later, me and few friends of
             | mine went on a trip into the mountains, and we put our
             | tent, as we later discovered, on some farmer's field. He
             | got mad at us, and wanted us to cut the grass for him, as a
             | form of compensation. Using a scythe on an incline, as
             | opposed to flat surface is a... whole different story. I
             | lodged it into the ground a few times, and then the farmer
             | almost killed us :) In the end, we bought him some alcohol
             | and left.
             | 
             | So, the moral of the story: scythe might not be always the
             | best tool, and in some situations it's far from obvious how
             | to use it efficiently.
        
               | haccount wrote:
               | A high speed processor And lidar with digital blade angle
               | control will probably make it work effortlessly on an
               | incline too.
        
         | Almondsetat wrote:
         | Taking inspiration from your nickname, how do you explain the
         | many technical aspects of Japan that are still stuck in the
         | 90s? They surely know how to look around and they surely know
         | better things have been battle tested for decades in other
         | countries, and yet...
        
       | efm wrote:
       | The Future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed.
       | William Gibson
       | 
       | What is the skill tree of development, and how do we speed run
       | it?
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | >What is the skill tree of development, and how do we speed run
         | it?
         | 
         | There used to be an easy answer to this, now it's not
         | politically or morally acceptable to support: colonization.
         | Colonization is what brought modern farming practices (and
         | their accompanying massive yields) as well as the development
         | of the infrastructure needed to support it and other
         | developments.
        
           | r14c wrote:
           | My guess is that's because people don't like being colonized.
           | "Modern" industrial farming is also depleting the soil, so
           | I'm not sure the jury is out on it actually being "better"
           | than local practices.
        
         | vdupras wrote:
         | In terms of joules spent per blade of grass cut, a well honed
         | scythe in the hands of a skillful operator is more efficient
         | than mechanized solutions. If you have an area where you
         | already have an abundance of agricultural workers, it might be
         | that scythe is a better solution than having your agriculture
         | sector being dependent on fossil fuels.
        
           | troupo wrote:
           | "If you already have a bunch of people doing back-breaking
           | labor, do not even think about giving them efficient
           | machines"
        
             | vdupras wrote:
             | Working in the field is difficult, yes, but the western
             | world still hasn't figured out an answer to the question
             | "what happens when we run out of dead dinosaurs[1] to
             | eat?". Until it has, any idea to not exacerbate the problem
             | until we figure it out is, in my mind, a good idea.
             | 
             | [1]: fossil fuels, with poetic license
        
             | Syonyk wrote:
             | "Efficient" in terms of what outputs, for what inputs?
             | 
             | You can't just handwave the term as a synonym for "I think
             | it's better!" - it actually does imply inputs, outputs, and
             | depending on what you want to optimize for, you may get
             | very different results.
             | 
             | If a scythe is genuinely better for the job than a sickle,
             | great!
             | 
             | But in a country without a lot of infrastructure and
             | without modern supply chains, I'm pretty sure a tractor is
             | the wrong solution to the problem. Unless, of course, your
             | problem is "how to burden nations with loans they will
             | never be able to pay back so you can come in and take
             | over."
        
             | xupybd wrote:
             | You have to incrementally improve. You can't jump an
             | economic step.
             | 
             | I'd love to have everyone have no labour to do and be
             | served by robots but let them eat cake doesn't work in
             | reality.
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | You can absolutely jump economic steps. Many countries
               | never got wide deployment of wired telephones, and never
               | will. They skipped right to wide deployment of mobile
               | phones. Many of those same countries skipped right past
               | desktop computers in every home and laptops to replace
               | desktops and have gone straight from limited computer
               | access to the mobile phone replaces desktop computers.
               | 
               | You certainly don't need to hit _all_ the economic steps,
               | but using capital to reduce labor doesn 't make sense
               | when labor is much less expensive than capital.
        
               | xupybd wrote:
               | By economic steps I meant you have to generate enough
               | capital to afford tractors. This is a good stepping
               | stone.
        
         | Syonyk wrote:
         | The skill tree depends on awful lot on what you care about, and
         | don't assume that western "high tech" solutions are the best,
         | because they're the most complicated.
         | 
         | From a "Built out of locally available resources, with minimum
         | energy, and robust repairability," it's hard to beat a scythe
         | or other similar tool.
         | 
         | And I guarantee a well built scythe will still work, if
         | tolerably cared for, long past the last of our over-complicated
         | tractors rusting in fields because the right software to update
         | the firmware to allow you to start the engine after changing
         | the oil was trying to talk to some server that no longer
         | exists...
         | 
         | Unless you're making this argument. I can't actually tell which
         | way you're arguing for.
        
       | dtquad wrote:
       | Insane that a country that hasn't invented the scythe yet has
       | also produced one of the authors of the "Attention is all you
       | need" paper.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | > regions where sickles (or machetes) are traditionally used
       | 
       | I don't understand how it's possible that there are regions that
       | don't use scythes (for crops that warrant them), when scythes
       | have been around for over a thousand years?
       | 
       | I would venture to say that if they haven't transitioned yet it's
       | because they don't want to (for whatever reasons--no idea what
       | those might be).
        
         | traverseda wrote:
         | Guesses at some reasons
         | 
         | * Scythes need to be sharp, a machete will work even when
         | poorly maintained.
         | 
         | * Machetes are cheaper to make.
         | 
         | * Machetes are easier to use
         | 
         | * Scythes are a specialized tool, where as I can buy a machete
         | for ten dollars at Canadian Tire. Economics of scale are
         | different.
         | 
         | > There are still several remaining scythe factories in the
         | world. In recent years a competitive, market-driven economy is
         | making it difficult for scythe making factories to retain the
         | quality level that was once a standard.
         | 
         | https://scytheworks.ca/swwobs-blade-choice/
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | Invention and adoption of technology, even "basic" technology,
         | is very contingent on circumstance. Bows are pretty near
         | universal (but not quite), but specific improvements like
         | recurved limbs are patchy. And people aren't exactly quick to
         | adopt new farming techniques when a failure could mean they
         | starve. I guess that's also why this organization is pushing
         | uphill. But I think it's very possible that lots of people
         | haven't heard of or seriously evaluated a scythe.
        
       | opwieurposiu wrote:
       | A good scythe is faster then a weed-wacker but slower then a
       | lawnmower. I have been using a scythe to cut my lawn for a few
       | years now. It works, and is fun, but you must keep it VERY sharp.
       | If the scythe is not razor sharp it will simply push the grass
       | over instead of cutting it. A sickle will still work when
       | somewhat dull, because it gathers the grass into the concave bit
       | and/or you can hold on the grass with one hand and cut it with
       | the other.
       | 
       | A scythe you have to sharpen every 5-10 min or so, normally you
       | keep a scythe stone in your pocket to do this. The sickle you can
       | just sharpen at the beginning of the day and that will be good
       | enough.
       | 
       | The sharpening process takes some practice to get good at,
       | particularly if you start peening it as well.
       | 
       | https://scytheworks.ca/knowledge-base/chapter-4-preparing-th...
        
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