[HN Gopher] A Venerable and Time-Tested Guide: The Chicago Manua...
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       A Venerable and Time-Tested Guide: The Chicago Manual of Style,
       18th Edition
        
       Author : NaOH
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2024-10-24 20:40 UTC (5 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lareviewofbooks.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lareviewofbooks.org)
        
       | garciansmith wrote:
       | Is this available as a pdf? Or just yet another online
       | subscription if you want to search it quickly? Part of the reason
       | I never bothered with the 17th Edition was that I couldn't find a
       | searchable pdf version (I last tried looking for one years ago
       | though). That and they deprecated the use of ibid, which made me
       | sad.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | does this mean "is this available as a pdf for no money and
         | copyable?"
         | 
         | The book publishing industry is unrecognizable economically
         | from what it was 25 years ago. Many people here have no idea,
         | dont care and maybe worse. It is important to note that the
         | book publishing industry also had its own excesses, some
         | warranted and many not. A staple of publishing like this
         | Chicago Manual of Style was used and abused to generate excess
         | profits no doubt about it. The college textbook industry was
         | (and still is) an eggregious offender for economic dark
         | patterns.
         | 
         | All said, a no-cost PDF of this book is not the answer in the
         | long term IMHO, economics and all considered. (USA here)
        
           | garciansmith wrote:
           | I'll gladly pay for a copy. Pretty much everything I write
           | uses the Chicago style (I'm a historian), I just want
           | something easily searchable and still usable without an
           | internet connection.
           | 
           | I love buying physical books, and could get one of the 18th
           | edition, but for reference material like this it's much
           | quicker to search a digital copy, especially since I know all
           | the basics of the style and it's the more obscure edge cases
           | I'll need to find.
        
         | simlevesque wrote:
         | https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/dam/jcr:bba47b07-61ba-4...
         | 
         | Seems like it's this one.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | .. the one from 1906
        
             | AdamN wrote:
             | We believe in the old gods and we only read the eleventh
             | edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica as well.
        
           | everybodyknows wrote:
           | Linked PDF says _Copyright 1906_ , and I see no edition
           | number -- apparently the first.
        
             | everybodyknows wrote:
             | The editors's assumed readership is authors preparing for
             | reproduction with full access to capabilities of a printing
             | press:
             | 
             | > 75. SET IN SMALLER TYPE. Ordinarily, all prose extracts
             | which will make three or more lines in the smaller type,
             | and all poetry citations of two lines or more. An isolated
             | prose quotation, even though its length would bring it
             | under this rule, may properly be run into the text, if it
             | bears an organic relation to the argument pre- sented. On
             | the other hand, a quotation of one or two lines which is
             | closely preceded or followed by longer extracts, set in
             | smaller type, may likewise be reduced, as a matter of
             | uniform appearance
             | 
             | This although the mimeograph (for copying pages from a
             | typewriter) was already in use:
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimeograph
        
           | garciansmith wrote:
           | I guess I should have specified a pdf of the 18th edition!
        
         | nemomarx wrote:
         | The article does mention this link:
         | https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/dam/jcr:bba47b07-61ba-4...
         | 
         | as a "fascimile" edition that's free.
        
           | antiframe wrote:
           | Is the CMS from 1906 still useful today? I don't know who
           | proportion of stylistic mores have changed since then.
        
       | klodolph wrote:
       | Chicago is my style guide of choice, although I have an older
       | edition. The only real alternative is the AP style guide, which I
       | don't favor because I'm not a journalist.
       | 
       | There's a lot of focus on citations in this review, but citations
       | are only a small part of the guide. I'm usually looking up things
       | like capitalization, punctuation, or quotation rules that I half-
       | remember.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | What do you think of the St. Martin's Handbook ?
        
           | klodolph wrote:
           | That's a different category of book, I think.
           | 
           | I haven't used St. Martin's, but it looks most similar to
           | _Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace_ , which I recommend.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | AP and Chicago are mostly quite similar although AP differs in
         | a few specific things, e.g. no Oxford comma. Where I used to
         | work, we generally used Chicago, Merriam-Webster, and IBM but
         | we would go with AP for things like press releases because
         | journalists generally use AP and we wanted to make it painless
         | for them to cut and paste press releases, public company blogs,
         | and the like.
        
       | wileydragonfly wrote:
       | Came in real handy once when the odd Harvard PhD I worked with
       | insisted I had written something improperly. She was so confident
       | that was beginning to feel like I had lost my mind. This book
       | told me that no, no, she was the incorrect one. (iirc it was
       | capitalization of certain words in a title or along those lines)
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | Depending exactly on what you are referring to, this could have
         | been an AP vs Chicago thing. Neither is wrong (or correct) in a
         | vacuum, but, your editors should pick one style guide and
         | adhere to it. Hopefully they will point you towards the style
         | guide when you have disagreement over a correction instead of
         | keeping you guessing, of course.
        
       | cge wrote:
       | It appears there is no legal e-book or offline digital version of
       | recent editions of the manual, at any price, with or without DRM.
       | There is only the printed, hardcover edition, and a subscription-
       | only, online-only website with the contents of the 17th and 18th
       | editions, presented as a single paragraph per page, and poorly
       | typeset, particularly for symbols. There's no legal way to obtain
       | a long-term digital copy of a particular edition; it's not clear
       | if the publishers intend to keep editions back to the 17th
       | available online for the subscription, or only the two most
       | recent editions: this is of relevance to me because I found the
       | mathematics chapter particularly useful and unusual for style
       | guides, and the authors decided to remove _the entire chapter_ in
       | the 18th edition.
       | 
       | Even if calculated as the cost of having access to an edition for
       | the approximately seven years it remains the most recent,
       | assuming the pricing doesn't increase, and using multi-year
       | payments, the legal online-only access involves a subscription
       | that would cost close to _four times_ the list price of the
       | hardcover book, something that you would own in perpetuity. It
       | doesn 't appear that the online subscription's content is
       | continually updated, or that it offers any advantage over the
       | book beyond being electronic, and having its page views used to
       | motivate decisions like removing the mathematics chapter. It is a
       | subscription, and online-only, merely by virtue of being a
       | digital version of a printed book.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, readers who aren't concerned about using a pirated
       | copy can easily obtain a clean, searchable, PDF from page images
       | and OCR, with the book's typesetting, and more than one paragraph
       | visible at once. This is, of course, usable offline.
       | 
       | The discrepancy between what is available to readers who want a
       | legal digital copy, _at any price_ , and readers who don't care,
       | is quite disappointing.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-29 23:01 UTC)