[HN Gopher] How Gothic architecture became spooky
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Gothic architecture became spooky
        
       Author : teleforce
       Score  : 155 points
       Date   : 2024-10-28 10:53 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.architecturaldigest.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.architecturaldigest.com)
        
       | skylurk wrote:
       | I know I've been on HN too long when I prefix "How" to titles
       | automatically.
        
         | xanderlewis wrote:
         | Just waiting for someone to post To Kill a Mockingbird.
        
       | tetris11 wrote:
       | The article didn't really say anything you wouldnt guess
       | yourself: repeated association in cinema.
       | 
       | It does hint at a book that maybe _just maybe_ started the
       | association ( _Castle of Otranto_ ) from someone who slept in a
       | Gothic revived house, but really doesn't tie the book or cinema
       | together and they could have been independent events.
       | 
       | I think the conclusion is: try sleeping in one, they're
       | inherently scary, which I feel is a weak takeaway.
        
         | Bjartr wrote:
         | It did offer the idea that the strength of the association is
         | boosted by the architects' intent to evoke a feeling of the
         | supernatural or unearthly. That I wouldn't have guessed.
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | >The article didn't really say anything you wouldnt guess
         | yourself: repeated association in cinema.
         | 
         | That assertion is easy to check. Go in the Amazonian jungle,
         | find a person who never saw western buildings and show him a
         | picture of a gothic building and one of a neoclassical
         | building. Ask him which one looks scary and which one doesn't.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | I think there is more to it than the cinema association. I
         | think the Gothic era architects went too far in associating it
         | with a higher authority and power until it was oppressive and
         | scary. Even the google AI result hints at it.
         | 
         | >The Gothic architectural style was initially met with derision
         | and contempt by some who wanted to revive the Grecian orders of
         | architecture. The term "Gothic" was used to describe the style
         | as barbarous and rude, and was attributed to the Gothic tribes
         | who destroyed the Roman Empire in the 5th century AD.
         | 
         | And form was following function. The church from the 12th
         | century to the 16th century was something to be very afraid of.
         | The Inquisition started in the 12th century.
        
           | mannykannot wrote:
           | I tend to agree - not only the inquisition (which I tend to
           | associate more with Romanesque) but the apparent
           | preoccupation with death, damnation, martyrdom and relics
           | (though I realize this is probably a simplistic view coming
           | from my ignorance.)
           | 
           | Oddly, I don't get these vibes when I am actually visiting
           | one of these buildings.
        
           | geye1234 wrote:
           | The Spanish Inquisition killed approximately the same number
           | of people every year as the State of Texas. The Roman
           | Inquisition killed far fewer. It was child's play compared to
           | 20th-century regimes.
           | 
           | Many more died at Hiroshima than over the centuries of the
           | Inquisition.
        
             | pixl97 wrote:
             | It gets easier to kill a lot of people when you have a lot
             | more people to kill. Texas has 4-6 times the population of
             | Spain 1400-1800. I mean, there is a reason you hear sayings
             | like "I'll Believe Corporations Are People When Texas
             | Executes One". This will stick with Texas for a long time.
        
         | blueflow wrote:
         | > repeated association in cinema.
         | 
         | These things are called "tropes", they are a form of fiction
         | and there is a whole wiki dedicated to them:
         | 
         | https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GothicHorror
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | I think the page you link to explains ti very well: its a
           | combination of the existence of Gothic ruins, a negative view
           | of the Middle Ages, and the association with the Catholic
           | church in the context of anti-Catholic prejudice in Britain
           | (and other Anglophone countries).
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | >Throughout the room were pictures of Cologne Cathedral, an 1880
       | church in Germany and one of Dr. Bork's favorite buildings. The
       | images, seemingly, caught the student's attention. "Dr. Bork," he
       | said. "Why does it look so evil?"
       | 
       | Having grown up in Cologne, it never seemed evil. As the article
       | alludes to when pointing out the architectural differences in
       | LOTR with the endorsement of Roman architecture for the "good
       | guys" and the gothic architecture for Mordor, it's obviously an
       | artifact of American culture.
       | 
       | Fascination with America as a Roman empire offspring, very
       | cartoonish ideas about the middle ages and a very saccharine
       | offshoots of Christianity compared to continental Catholicism.
       | It's sort of like asking "why does British sound evil?" Because
       | the studios made all the evil geniuses British (or sometimes
       | German or Russian).
        
         | arethuza wrote:
         | Having visited Cologne for the first time about 35 years ago
         | while inter-railing I was completely in awe of the building - I
         | am a atheist but my impression was very much "The people who
         | built this _really_ believed ".
         | 
         | I was so impressed that I purchased a number of architectural
         | drawings that I still have on the walls of our house!
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | It was more like not believing wasn't an option to express
           | publicly in a feudal society partially managed from Rome, in
           | the country that became the extension of the Roman empire
           | after the fall.
        
         | graemep wrote:
         | It seems an odd reaction and not entirely explained by American
         | culture - most gothic buildings in Europe attract tourists,
         | including lots of Americans, who visit them because they find
         | the beautiful. I have not heard that reaction from any American
         | i know, nor from other people from multiple cultures (who all
         | watch American media, of course!).
         | 
         | Gothic does convey a sense of age, which helps with spooky, but
         | feeling an association with evil sounds like an very individual
         | reaction.
        
           | marssaxman wrote:
           | America even has a couple of its own gothic cathedrals: St.
           | John the Divine, in New York, is a particularly awe-inspiring
           | bit of architecture.
        
         | teractiveodular wrote:
         | Describing LOTR as "obviously an artifact of American culture"
         | is a bit odd: it was written by a Brit and directed by a New
         | Zealander.
        
         | shermantanktop wrote:
         | If you'd like to experience the reverse effect, look around at
         | how the American Wild West has been depicted in Europe. It's a
         | fantastical, cartoonish view of a period which is already
         | fetishized in the US but when taken out of context it becomes
         | (to my American eyes) bizarre.
         | 
         | This may be fading, because it clearly originated in 1940s and
         | 50s Westerns from Hollywood. But whenever I've encountered it
         | I've felt like I'm looking into a funhouse mirror.
        
       | codeflo wrote:
       | Showing a picture of Notre Dame photoshopped against unsettling
       | clouds to make a point about the psychological effect of its
       | architecture is borderline fraud. Any actual photo makes the
       | building look a lot more majestic rather than scary:
       | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Notre-Da...
       | 
       | Also, I wonder to what extent this is an American perspective. Of
       | course, American culture is omnipresent in Europe, so the
       | association of Gothic buildings with horror movies has been
       | hammered into our minds as well. But still, I don't think any
       | European would look at Cologne Cathedral and be reminded of
       | _Ghostbusters_ of all things. I think unfamiliarity plays a role
       | here.
        
         | arethuza wrote:
         | I wonder if people think Milan cathedral also looks scary?
        
           | agos wrote:
           | the Duomo is a weird kind of gothic, most notably missing the
           | tall proportions of most gothic cathedrals. I've never seen
           | it described as scary, but it has its creepy details, like
           | the statue depicting San Bartholomew after being skinned,
           | wearing his own skin.
        
             | shermantanktop wrote:
             | That statue is a vivid memory for me ever since I saw it 30
             | years ago.
        
           | adrian_b wrote:
           | Even if I agree that Gothic architecture is the most
           | appropriate setting for horror action, and I also agree with
           | many of the arguments of the Italian Renaissance against what
           | they have called as "Gothic", I still consider the great
           | Gothic cathedrals as the most beautiful buildings that have
           | ever been built.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Where's your evidence it's photoshopped? It's credited to "Pete
         | Douglass/Getty Images" and Getty has a policy against
         | photoshopped images.
         | 
         | It's just a photo on a day and time with particularly dramatic
         | clouds. There's no "borderline fraud" here.
         | 
         | And of course it _does_ have a lot to do with weather and
         | lighting. Gothic horror is set in these environments at dusk
         | and at night, in moonlight and in storms. Gothic horror doesn
         | 't generally utilize bright sunny days, so your photo isn't
         | helping to illustrate the concept.
         | 
         | A building can be simultaneously majestic and inspiring during
         | a warm sunny day, and become spooky and creepy in low light
         | amidst the fog and cold damp.
        
           | a_e_k wrote:
           | My first thought when I read the article was that that image
           | must have been run through something like a contrast-limited
           | adaptive histogram equalization (CLAHE) process.
           | 
           | See here, for an example:
           | https://imagemagick.org/script/clahe.php
        
         | orblivion wrote:
         | Your photo still looks spooky to me.
        
       | doener wrote:
       | I really hate it that HN automatically deletes words like "How"
       | in titles.
        
         | vincvinc wrote:
         | Usually it's a good move for articles but for this title, it's
         | a bit distortive to the point of HN selfparody
        
           | brettermeier wrote:
           | Do you have examples where it's good to cut out "how" from
           | the title? I can't believe that it's helpful.
        
             | gostsamo wrote:
             | This is intended to hobble clickbite titles and not to help
             | anyone else. Not always ideal, but I actually like it for
             | the most part.
        
           | elpocko wrote:
           | Thinking that you can just edit any title by applying a regex
           | is a sign of hubris, doing it automatically and silently is
           | an arrogant affront. Not to mention it contradicts HN's own
           | guideline that says you should keep original titles intact.
           | It's a title mutilator.
        
         | andrelaszlo wrote:
         | "Became" doesn't add much -> "Gothic architecture spooky"
         | 
         | "Gothic architecture" and "spooky" is basically synonymous ->
         | "Spooky!"
         | 
         | Why use word when emoji do trick? -> U+1F47B
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | Could be worse. At one point SomethingAwful would ban/probate
         | you if you made a thread where the subject started with the
         | word "So".
        
           | whamlastxmas wrote:
           | Or chose the hot tag
        
           | seanw444 wrote:
           | Glad to hear I'm not the only one with that pet peeve. It's
           | the paragraph-starting equivalent to sprinkling in "like"
           | everywhere in spoken language.
        
       | stnderror wrote:
       | For a different but related take on this, check the video game
       | Blasphemous. It made me realise how dark the Baroque style and
       | Catholic iconography can be when presented out of context.
        
         | fmdragon wrote:
         | As someone who grew up Catholic I'd say it's dark within
         | context as well.
        
         | musha68k wrote:
         | Great indie series indeed. I'd just contend that the source
         | material is already dark in context? If only to create contrast
         | to heavenly transcendence?
         | 
         | Bloodborne is another one that plays with surreal gothic
         | verticality in 3D.
        
         | jackcosgrove wrote:
         | The Baroque style was supposed to lighten things up.
         | 
         | Medieval art is really dark, especially depictions of hell and
         | death, which were common. That subject reached its height with
         | Hieronymus Bosch.
        
       | blueflow wrote:
       | Down the rabbithole you go:
       | https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GothicHorror
        
       | coldfoundry wrote:
       | https://archive.is/zPTuA
        
       | Amorymeltzer wrote:
       | >Other important literature that was published during this time
       | was work by Watpole himself. His novel, Castle of Otranto, was
       | reportedly inspired by a dream he had while living at Strawberry
       | Hill. Set in a castle in the Middle Ages, the epic details a lord
       | and his family living in a haunted mansion. "In the late 18th and
       | 19th century, Gothic became associated with spookiness, which got
       | wound into ideas of the exotic and sublime," Dr. Bork says. "By
       | the 20th century, you have movies and mass media that start using
       | this."
       | 
       | That's... not a lot of detail.
       | 
       | The narrative I like comes from Walt Hickey's _You Are What you
       | Watch_. Basically, there was wealth in the 1870s and 1880s during
       | the Gilded Age, and those people built homes in the Victorian
       | /Gothic/Queen Anne style. Their kids grow up in those homes, and
       | suddenly books are becoming movies (early successes like
       | _Dracula_ in 1897 as a book and eventually movies), and horror is
       | a big hit, and the kids who grew up in those homes are writing
       | things that take place there. Meanwhile, the stock market
       | crashes, those homes are abandoned and unmaintained and derided.
       | "When a boring colonial-style home deteriorates with age, it
       | looks distinguishing. When a fantabulous, whimsical home
       | deteriorates with age, it starts to look spooky."
        
         | schneems wrote:
         | > When a fantabulous, whimsical home deteriorates with age, it
         | starts to look spooky."
         | 
         | That makes sense. Those abandoned theme parks with knock-off
         | cartoon characters with smiles slowly peeling off are very
         | unsettling. I hadn't thought of it, but it makes sense that
         | same principal applies to other grand displays.
        
         | jkarneges wrote:
         | > the kids who grew up in those homes are writing things that
         | take place there
         | 
         | This is kind of like how trench coats are associated with
         | detectives, because they were regular clothing for anyone
         | around the time of early detective films.
        
       | Freak_NL wrote:
       | Why is there a video called _Margot Robbie Takes You Inside The
       | Barbie Dreamhouse_ after three paragraphs? Is that nu-gothic
       | architecture?
       | 
       | Is this a glimpse of what the internet looks like without an ad-
       | blocker?
        
         | shrx wrote:
         | I have uBlock origin and it still showed me the video. I'm
         | never visiting the website again.
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | I have uBlock Origin and uMatrix, didn't show me anything.
           | (yes, I know it's no longer supported, but so far it still
           | works great; probably too fussy for most, but makes me very
           | happy)
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | I'm waiting for a Pi-Hole that is powerful enough to put in
           | my HDMI connection and just filter out the ads using AI.
        
           | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
           | You're holding it(uBo) wrong. Or it's location/client/os-
           | dependent?
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | I only see a couple ads for Architectural Digest itself - using
         | just NoScript, and defaulting to distrust all 3rd-party js.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Zero mention of gargoyles in an entire article about gothic
       | architecture and horror?
        
         | chromanoid wrote:
         | Yeah, I was wondering too. I mean those are meant to look
         | scary.
        
           | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
           | Apotropaic architecture has a long history before Gothic
           | architecture, though. See: the Gorgons on the Temple of
           | Artemis at Corfu:
           | 
           | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Gorgon_a.
           | ..
        
         | prmoustache wrote:
         | That was my first reaction too. Gargoyles are here to inspire
         | fear. Associate that to pointy stuff and yes a building becomes
         | less welcoming.
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | > Though perhaps intimidating in their grandeur, they weren't
       | intended to inspire fear. "It was supposed to be positive,
       | transcendent, and godly, not scary," Dr. Bork explains. However,
       | ...
       | 
       | Worth noting - all that "Godly" Gothic architecture was built in
       | an age when Christianity was _the_ religion in Europe. And
       | Christianity 's #1 message-to-the-masses during that time
       | amounted to "Do _exactly_ as you are told, or God will condemn
       | you to the fires of Hell for all of eternity ".
        
       | dkarl wrote:
       | This article is way off base, warped by architectural
       | _deformation professionnelle_. The association of Gothic
       | architecture with eeriness dates back at least to Gothic fiction
       | in the 18th and 19th centuries. 18th and 19th century readers
       | devoured these popular prose depiction of Gothic horror. However,
       | architects are obsessed with visual images, so the article
       | quickly glosses over Gothic fiction and moves on to film
       | depictions in the 20th century, even including a quote that
       | implies the connection _started_ with film, which is wrong by
       | over a century.
       | 
       | The article contains photos, movie posters, and embedded videos,
       | but not a single quote from a single Gothic novel, even though
       | readers first experienced Gothic horror through imagination
       | stoked by words on the page.
        
         | akamaka wrote:
         | I went looking for a quote that explicitly references gothic
         | architectural details, and quickly found one in Edgar Allen
         | Poe's _Fall of the House of Usher_ , from 1839.
         | 
         |  _The room I came into was very large and high. The windows
         | were high, and pointed at the top, and so far above the black
         | floor that they were quite out of reach. Only a little light,
         | red in color, made its way through the glass, and served to
         | lighten the nearer and larger objects. My eyes, however, tried
         | and failed to see into the far, high corners of the room._
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Also, even if we are focusing purely on visuals, it is
         | interesting that they didn't discuss the effect of these
         | buildings becoming darker over time as the ornate details are
         | hard to keep clean, which was exasperated by air pollution. I
         | imagine a bright white marble building would have looked much
         | more "heavenly and transcendent".
        
           | ajmurmann wrote:
           | I went to the article expecting pollution was going to be the
           | answer to how the "became spooky". I remember seeing a
           | display at the cologne cathedral as a child that showed one
           | of the new replacement parts before installation. I was
           | shocked seeing how the replacement are a so much brighter
           | color than the cathedral itself is now. If these buildings
           | were brighter, I think it would be totally different.
           | Especially the interior of the Sagrada Familia which is very
           | bright and feels very positive is a good example here.
        
         | mmooss wrote:
         | An epistemological issue: Why shouldn't someone write about
         | your comment, "This ... is way off base", just as you write it
         | about the article? What makes your writing better? How could a
         | reader know?
         | 
         | I'll contribute to the answer: In the larger world, when it's
         | serious about knowledge, the difference is _evidence_ ,
         | primarily, and also expertise. In HN comments, how do we
         | evaluate these different sources and claims ...?
        
       | lo_zamoyski wrote:
       | > This forebear was uniform and symmetrical, regulated by
       | harmony, ratios, and scale. In fact, each order of Greek design--
       | Doric, Ionic, and Corinthian--was based on the human body, and
       | therefore felt safe, approachable, and familiar.
       | 
       | I think the corollary is interesting, which is the answer to this
       | question: what does this say about modern architecture? Sterile,
       | bleak, chaotic, unfriendly, hostile, alien, ugly, pretentious.
       | Which is to say, while the gothic transcends (but benevolently
       | includes) humanity and the natural order in the signified
       | transcendence, much of modern architecture does the opposite. By
       | contradicting the immanent and the human, it doesn't lead to
       | transcendence, but dehumanization and vulgarization, mockery. So,
       | while the classical respects the merely human, and the gothic
       | includes the human and the natural and expands the horizon and
       | domain within which they can be understood, modern architecture
       | negates the human, reduces it, corrupts it, and ultimate hates
       | it. Since art is mimetic, this could rightly be called demonic
       | architecture. Where classical architecture is made in the image
       | of the natural order, and where gothic architecture reflects the
       | divine and the heavenly order (which includes the nature order,
       | restored), modern architecture is the image of hell.
       | 
       | > aesthetic theories generally classify the sublime as work that
       | showcases greatness beyond measurement, comprehension, or
       | experience; its magnitude is both awe-inspiring and terrifying.
       | 
       | Which is the way in which God is described in the Christian
       | tradition, hence "loving fear" or "fear of God". This fear arises
       | from awe of something sublime in its power, beauty, goodness,
       | truth, and magnificence. God is the most sublime, naturally, and
       | you could expect that an encounter with the unmediated divine, if
       | you were to survive it, would blow your mind and put you and
       | everything else in a new perspective. In Scripture, angels--
       | powerful, but finite--contrary to most Western art, are also
       | described as "terrifying" when they make themselves known, but
       | not in a malicious way (this famously occurs in the New Testament
       | when Gabriel tells Mary not to fear him).
       | 
       | I might also speculate about one reason why this transformation
       | of the gothic from awe-inspiring to haunted and terrifying might
       | have taken place from a psycho-theological point of view. Note
       | that evil often involves mockery or inversion of the good. Evil
       | as such is absence of the good, and thus absence of being. So,
       | qua evil, it cannot do anything but appropriate the good. A
       | cliche example might be the black mass, which mocks the Catholic
       | mass. Pornography is another example rife with mockery and
       | defilement (Al Goldstein's infamous words "Christ sucks" and
       | "Catholicism sucks" is all I intend to quote here). Drugs still
       | another, a kind of mock transcendental experience that involves
       | not the authentic elevation or expansion of one's faculties of
       | reason, but their corruption and diminishment.
       | 
       | Another reason why the gothic may have become haunted at around
       | the time of the Enlightenment has to do with how the beautiful is
       | received by the beholder, that is, that it will depend on the
       | mode of the beholder. You can see this perhaps most often in how
       | a man sees or reacts to a beautiful woman. A man with a vicious
       | and evil heart will dehumanize her in his mind and wish to use
       | her for his selfish gratification; a prideful man with an
       | insecure or guilty heart may hate her and project onto her faults
       | and slander, scapegoating her for his own defects and
       | inferiority; a man with bad intentions but an active enough
       | conscience may become anxious around her as intention meets
       | conscience; a man corrupted by a life of debauchery and a sordid
       | past but beginning to see the light may be saddened by his
       | impurity and his inability to relate to her fully like a human
       | being. But the humble man of pure and good intentions receives
       | beauty with joy, ease, and gratitude. So, here, the Enlightenment
       | was a direct assault on the Church (as was the Protestant revolt
       | before that). These cathedrals were now, in their eyes, like
       | corpses, dead, relics of the past, and not only dead, but dead by
       | the beholder's own hands (or his forefather's hands; the deed and
       | the guilt now institutionalized and infused into the culture). A
       | certain guilt or sorrow might haunt such a person. The haunting
       | is in the beholder who is shut out of the beauty of the gothic by
       | his own guilty conscience or the culture he was shaped by that
       | resulted from the guilty consciences of his forefathers. Similar
       | analyses have been done on the nature of the horror genre (e.g.,
       | "Alien" as an expression of horror and guilt in the wake of the
       | sexual revolution, or "Frankenstein" as a sublimation of
       | Shelley's guilt and painful past and the horrors of the
       | Enlightenment worldview).
        
       | bonthron wrote:
       | Horace Walpole's "The Castle of Otranto" is a ridiculously fun
       | book. Very short, and stuffed with melodrama. My copy has an
       | excellent introduction to Gothic architecture, literature, and
       | politics by Nick Groom, which goes much deeper than this article.
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | The article doesn't mention that death, especially childhood
       | dead, was far more common in the medieval and Victorian European
       | era than it is today. A couple with six children could expect
       | half those children to die of infectious disease before reaching
       | puberty, and there was also a significant probability of the
       | mother dying due to pregnancy-related issues over that period.
       | 
       | I'd assume Gothic architecture and religious design of the era
       | reflects that grim aspect of life in that period, which is
       | something relatively few families suffer today due to modern
       | medicine. Looking back it's not surprising it seems spooky and
       | dark.
        
       | chairhairair wrote:
       | I'm sure most readers here are using an adblocker.
       | 
       | Try disabling it for this website. It's incredible. The content
       | is difficult to see between all the various ad surfaces. My
       | browser came to a screeching halt.
        
         | consf wrote:
         | It's amazing how much we rely on ad blockers to make websites
         | usable without even realizing it
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | I don't think Gothic architecture ever drove the plots of Gothic
       | romance or horror, apart from a few choice novels. It was mostly
       | used as a setting.
       | 
       | The _spookiness_ , at least for Americans, came like so:
       | 
       | 1. Gilded Age upper classes built the fanciest mansions they
       | could afford, in the Neo-Gothic style which was fashionable at
       | the time
       | 
       | 2. Like the English country houses (see
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_country_houses_...),
       | eventually these rich owners couldn't afford the upkeep of these
       | massively oversized and ornate dwellings. And nobody would buy
       | them. So they moved out and left the mansions to become ruins
       | 
       | 3. Now lots of people know about the old abandoned mansion on the
       | hill. Gothic! Spooky! That includes Charles Addams, who starts
       | making jolly cartoons in the _New Yorker_ about the odd family
       | that live in a big spooky mansion, and it includes Alfred
       | Hitchcock who thinks a run-down mansion is a great setting for
       | _Psycho_
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | And the (perhaps unintentionally spooky) 1925 Edward Hopper
         | painting _House by the Railroad_ depicting one of these Gilded
         | Age houses, which is said to have inspired the fictional houses
         | in the Addams Family and in _Psycho_.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_by_the_Railroad
        
           | stvswn wrote:
           | One town over from my own hometown is Westfield, NJ where
           | Charles Addams is from, and there's a house on Elm Street
           | that looks a lot like the Addams Family house -- especially
           | the one he drew in New Yorker cartoons. The town has a
           | festival in his honor every year around Halloween and the
           | house in particular features proudly as _the_ Addams Family
           | house.
        
           | nilamo wrote:
           | That looks straight out of Beetlejuice lol
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | I wonder to what extent our conception of spookiness is driven
         | by what big buildings happened to be slightly but not
         | overwhelmingly run down, and available for cheap sets.
         | 
         | The fact that gothic houses happened to be in that state when
         | cameras became widespread Hollywood was inventing tropes
         | probably influenced things quite a bit!
        
           | parpfish wrote:
           | Interesting connection here to modern creepy settings leaning
           | on liminal spaces and run-down early 90s stuff in analog
           | horror.
           | 
           | The new scary settings are run down Chuck E. Cheese's and
           | empty office buildings.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | Yeah. Malls are another good one, although that seems to be
             | a bit of a boom and bust field or something... and we've
             | already had plenty of zombie movies set in malls.
             | 
             | Office building are an interesting one because, of course,
             | a ton of people can imagine working in an office building
             | (having done so).
             | 
             | Small colleges recently had a rough time of things, and
             | also could be a place that is likely to generate a horror
             | script writer, I bet we'll get a good college horror story.
        
             | amiga386 wrote:
             | e.g.
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Nights_at_Freddy%27s and
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Backrooms ?
             | 
             | Personally I liked
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_(video_game) whose
             | setting was largely inspired by imagining what goes on
             | inside the windowless skyscraper at
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33_Thomas_Street
        
               | parpfish wrote:
               | exactly.
               | 
               | control was amazing but had never really connected it to
               | backrooms, but it makes sense. that final set piece
               | synced up to the song was one of the best things i've
               | experienced in a video game.
               | 
               | i didn't know it was explicitly inspired by that
               | building, for some reason i kept thinking of this
               | brutalist beauty that houses the FBI
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover_Building)
        
             | twic wrote:
             | Perhaps this is what you were alluding to, but immensely
             | popular survival horror video game Five Nights at Freddy's
             | is set in a thinly veiled Chuck E. Cheese.
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | I don't disagree with as your points, but I also think a
         | structure made of spikes and points is inherently more evil
         | feeling than something round or oval. Also, religious
         | structures and religion veer towards the dark and ominous.
         | Catholics and christians depict a guy nailed to a cross with a
         | crown of thorns on his head in their cathedrals so that doesn't
         | help.
        
           | lukan wrote:
           | "Also, religious structures and religion veer towards the
           | dark and ominous."
           | 
           | I think that is mainly a christian thing. Buddhist and Hindu
           | temples for example are rather colorful. And I have not been
           | in a Mosque yet, but I do think they are also rather bright
           | and oval instead of spiky and dark.
        
           | DonHopkins wrote:
           | And all the dark and ominous child raping and protecting
           | rapist priests and the evil Popes who enable it and cover it
           | all up that the Catholic Church is so infamous for is pretty
           | creepy and doesn't help either.
        
         | rockfishroll wrote:
         | You see a similar trend again with "abandoned mental hospitals"
         | as settings for horror in TV and movies. The trend of
         | "deinstitutionalization" started in the 50s and 60s, meant that
         | by the 80s and 90s many psychiatric hospitals had been defunded
         | and shut down. As a result, it was a surprisingly common
         | childhood experience for people of a certain age to have an
         | "old abandoned mental hospital two towns over". Every kid "knew
         | someone who knew someone with an older brother who had spent
         | all night in one", and there were a ton of them around to use
         | as settings.
         | 
         | Maybe in 30 years, all horror movies will be set in abandoned
         | cup cake stores.
        
           | mercer wrote:
           | The way people were regularly 'treated' at these hospitals
           | probably also figured into it.
        
             | edm0nd wrote:
             | In retrospect, we should probably bring back
             | institutionalism of individuals and try to have more
             | psychiatric hospitals ran by the state. Some people just
             | cant be helped but need to be shoved somewhere for the rest
             | of their lives away from society. Hopefully though we could
             | raise standards so they are all treated fairly and have no
             | lobotomizations.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | Why did it take so long for them to be demolished/change
           | ownership after they were abandoned?
        
             | aerostable_slug wrote:
             | A lot of sites require substantial environmental cleanup
             | before they can be redeveloped. Things like underground
             | fuel oil tanks for boilers can be costly to remediate.
        
             | detourdog wrote:
             | The estate may have been abandoned for the city and as long
             | as the taxes got paid it could Rot.
        
           | theshaper wrote:
           | In twenty years, we'll probably see the same phenomenon with
           | 'abandoned Data Centers.' Teenagers will head to these old
           | buildings in small groups, looking for the ghostly Sysadmin
           | who killed his family because the AI in his neural link told
           | him to.
        
           | Tade0 wrote:
           | My bet is on malls, provided any of the structures survive.
        
             | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
             | Already a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_mall
             | and enjoyed by 'urban explorers'. (
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_exploration )
        
             | edm0nd wrote:
             | A lot of them are being turned into other things.
             | 
             | A dead mall here in Louisiana was purchased by Amazon and
             | turned into their second largest robotic warehouse in the
             | US.
        
         | KaiserPro wrote:
         | I suspect its fairly location specific.
         | 
         | In the UK a neogothic wasn't even a thing when the first horror
         | novels were made 1765 (Palladian style was all the rage)
         | 
         | around 1870 "high gothic"
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Victorian_Gothic was the
         | equivalent of glass and steel construction for us, or possible
         | more like Bauhaus, a homage to an earlier age, but with a
         | modern twist.
         | 
         | either way, it was uber modern.
        
         | stvswn wrote:
         | I agree with the idea that there's something dramatic about
         | evil things happening in an old house where one might find a
         | mysterious aristocrat behaving badly, but I think the theme
         | goes back to Regency era Britain an, when the industrial
         | revolution was upending society and old aristocrats were going
         | broke while new industrialists were getting rich -- causing the
         | old manor house in disrepair trope to be something you might
         | find in England. One person who inherited such a manor house,
         | but not the wealth to maintain it, was Lord Byron. His manor,
         | Newstead Abbey, is out of haunted-house central casting and, as
         | a romantic, he plays to all those tropes. He had also visited
         | the Balkans and was aware of Vampire myths, so when it's time
         | to participate in the famous scary-story-contest in 1816 (where
         | Mary Shelley submitted _Frankenstein_), Byron tells a story of
         | a vampire who seems a lot like himself. This story is ripped
         | off by Byron's physician who published his own story (The
         | Vampyre) where the main character is absolutely Byronic. Bram
         | Stoker's Dracula ends up with a similarly Byronic idea of
         | Dracula, and now we have a deeply embedded cultural heritage of
         | creepy stuff happening in run-down manor houses -- maybe just
         | because Lord Byron himself haunted such a setting.
        
       | jackcosgrove wrote:
       | I always thought gothic buildings were designed to look like
       | forests from within. The Catholic paraphernalia like relics and
       | candles are what's really spooky, but a well-lit gothic interior
       | is not spooky to me.
        
         | mmooss wrote:
         | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Sagrada+Fam%C3%ADlia+interior+pill...
        
       | Rexxar wrote:
       | Is it specific to English speaking countries (or maybe just USA)
       | ? I never saw gothic buildings as spooky.
        
       | 4star3star wrote:
       | I think if the stone were kept exceptionally clean, it would go a
       | long way. The dark stained look adds a lot to the sinister vibes,
       | IMO.
        
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