[HN Gopher] A Chopin waltz unearthed after nearly 200 years
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A Chopin waltz unearthed after nearly 200 years
        
       Author : perihelions
       Score  : 269 points
       Date   : 2024-10-27 11:57 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
        
       | pvg wrote:
       | https://archive.is/tjk6Q
        
         | mouse_ wrote:
         | thanks
        
         | atribecalledqst wrote:
         | Is it possible to view the music clip from this? Am I missing
         | something?
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | Here's a direct link if nothing else works,
           | 
           | https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/10/15/127974_1_chopin-
           | find-353... (.mp4)
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | This is either a true Chopin composition or there's some
             | brilliant musician out there able to make compositions that
             | sound like one.
             | 
             | A great execution too from Lang Lang.
        
               | iamnotsamaltman wrote:
               | obviously AI
        
               | ageitgey wrote:
               | It's funny now divisive Lang Lang is with classical
               | people. The Reddit classical threads are full of people
               | outraged that they had him play this and declare him the
               | worst possible person in the world to debut a Chopin
               | piece.
        
             | atribecalledqst wrote:
             | Thank you! I tried looking for a link in the HTML source
             | for the archive.is page but couldn't find it. Maybe I just
             | wasn't looking hard enough...
        
         | munchler wrote:
         | Here is a gift link to the full article on the NY Times site.
         | This should allow people to hear the music.
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/arts/music/chopin-waltz-d...
        
       | pama wrote:
       | Is there a link to the complete music score somewhere?
        
         | marcel_hecko wrote:
         | On the very first screen via link. 80 seconds of music.
        
           | desdenova wrote:
           | The link is under a paywall, though.
        
             | marcel_hecko wrote:
             | On the very first screen via the archive link
             | https://archive.is/tjk6Q
             | 
             | The original is not paywalled for me!?
        
               | melagonster wrote:
               | They offer limited number of free article
        
               | rzzzt wrote:
               | The original showed me a "We have updated our terms" pop-
               | up over a cookie permission pop-up over a login overlay.
        
           | pama wrote:
           | Thanks! https://www.themorgan.org/music/manuscript/452191/1
        
       | stevage wrote:
       | Seems pretty plausible to me. But as usual, there's a reason this
       | piece wasnt published - it's not great.
        
         | praptak wrote:
         | Mediocre pieces by otherwise great creators have huge value at
         | the meta level. They add to the evidence that greatness is more
         | than just being born a genius and then just cranking out
         | masterpieces.
        
           | mathgeek wrote:
           | Do folks generally still believe that the "masters" are/were
           | born great, rather than being born with an advantage of some
           | sort (whether by nature or environment) and then leveraging
           | that to achieve mastery of some craft?
        
             | detourdog wrote:
             | I don't know about born "great" but born with a different
             | perspective seems reasonable. The perspective maybe
             | nurtured by the environment. I think the environment could
             | be a repetitive task or plenty of leisure time.
             | 
             | I believe luck with timing is the biggest determination.
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | I do. There was nothing particularly special about Chopin's
             | environment, yet he was cranking out brilliant, innovative
             | works by his early teens.
        
           | mvkel wrote:
           | Great point.
           | 
           | Vonnegut comes to mind in literature. In one of his novels,
           | he even grades his other works A-F based on how good he
           | thinks they were. His grades seem remarkably accurate, too,
           | given my subjectivity as a reader, and his bias as the
           | author.
           | 
           | Seems like the passage of time has a role in accentuating the
           | genius of artists
        
             | sitkack wrote:
             | > passage of time has a role in accentuating the genius of
             | artists
             | 
             | That makes sense, I think genius is time evolving process.
             | 
             | One pattern, I have seen in high performers, is that they
             | are competing only with themselves, using introspective
             | feedback to continuously improve in an ego free way.
        
               | mvkel wrote:
               | Yes. If you come to conclusions independently and those
               | conclusions survive positively for hundreds of years,
               | credit is due
        
         | scottcha wrote:
         | Chopins posthumously published Nocturne in C# minor is a very
         | popular piece to play/listen to. I also think there are several
         | Debussy pieces he didn't want published but are very popular
         | now (maybe Reverie is one if my memory serves me)
        
           | stevage wrote:
           | Ok that's fair, I play it myself. Though it's also pretty
           | weird in its middle section.
        
         | motohagiography wrote:
         | After decades of liking his work, I learned one of his little
         | preludes recently and now he's just freddy the disconsolate
         | schmaltzmeister to me. the discovery seems too late, nobody is
         | going to be that maudlin again.
        
           | djtango wrote:
           | I was obsessed with Chopin for a while then went off his
           | music for many years. I have had a resurgence in my interest
           | in his music. Probably due to the Chopin competition
           | rekindled it alongside with finally getting hold of a piano
           | again.
           | 
           | The etudes are timeless
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | Have you tried the new Chopin podcast by Ben Laude?
        
           | vixen99 wrote:
           | Maybe unintentionally, the word 'little' is quite dismissive.
           | Perhaps you're thinking of one of the three very minor
           | Preludes which no one plays and not included in the 24
           | Preludes Opus 28.
           | 
           | If you do mean something like the 4th Prelude in E Minor for
           | instance, should it be prefaced with a trigger warning that
           | 'you're about to hear music that is - _effusively sad or full
           | of self-pity; extremely sentimental_ or  'tearful; easily
           | moved to tears; exciting to tears; excessively sentimental;
           | weak and silly? (American Heritage Dictionary definition of
           | maudlin).
           | 
           | Written much later, would you regard Rachmaninov's Vocalise
           | (1915) or Barber's Adagio (1936) as 'maudlin' not to mention
           | a vast number of other compositions that explore the kind of
           | intensity of feeling that is expressed in the 4th Chopin
           | Prelude. Given that the pianist Alfred Brendel considers
           | 'Chopin's Preludes as the most glorious achievement in piano
           | music after Beethoven and Schubert' you might wonder why he
           | takes a somewhat view from you. Could you be missing
           | something?
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | 1) I absolutely loved the execution by Lang Lang of it.
         | 
         | 2) You're really looking at this in terms of modern music
         | industry, which is nonsense, Chopin created music for his
         | friends too and would send them the scripts.
        
       | Jabbles wrote:
       | I wonder if music experts could have identified it as a work by
       | Chopin just by the sound? Obviously it's a bit late now, but it
       | would have been an interesting experiment - to ask 100
       | "professors of music" to guess which composer out of [1] wrote
       | this newly discovered piece.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:19th-
       | century_classica...
        
         | eXpl0it3r wrote:
         | Very likely. I'm nowhere near a professional nor am I giid at
         | recognizing pieces/composers, but some people have such a deep
         | understanding of yhe music from various composers, that they
         | likely categorize it correctly.
         | 
         | See for example Nahre Sol [1] who plays the same piece in the
         | style of different composers. In order to do that, you need to
         | have a deep understanding of each composer's "quirks".
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/SAtZawkqBG8
        
           | throw0101d wrote:
           | > _See for example Nahre Sol [1]_
           | 
           | Related to her, perhaps see her video "Is Chopin JAZZ?!":
           | 
           | * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcfRqsjQA-4
           | 
           | > _[1]https://youtu.be/SAtZawkqBG8?si=ZObBERSyYD29w4y4_
           | 
           | Meta: The "si=ZObBERSyYD29w4y4" parameter is tracking. When
           | cutting-pasting you may wish to remove it.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | This is topical:
         | 
         | https://www.thepianofiles.com/the-valse-melancolique/
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Mayer_(composer)
         | 
         | There was another (attributed) Chopin Waltz that was discovered
         | about a century ago, and "professors of music" argued whether
         | it really sounded like Chopin or not. I think they reached a
         | consensus that it wasn't Chopin, but an unrelated contemporary
         | called Charles Mayer.
         | 
         | - _" In an email exchange we had relating to this discovery,
         | Stephen Hough wrote (and gave me permission to publish) the
         | following comments:"_
         | 
         | - _" It was not so much the structure which made me think from
         | the first time I saw the piece (1936 edition) that it couldn't
         | be by Chopin but the compositional mistakes. Chopin was
         | fastidious about such things and there is false note-leading,
         | inaccurate spelling of accidentals and rough harmony (too many
         | thirds, bad spacing). I also never thought it sounded Chopin-
         | esque but much more Russian. I only put it on as a curiosity
         | and insisted that the notes explain its doubtful attribution."_
        
         | djtango wrote:
         | Composers have very distinct styles my teacher would joke
         | Mozart adored the triad, Beethoven the octave and Chopin the
         | tenth.
         | 
         | A fun game I like to play myself is "guess the composer". I
         | think I shocked my friend the most when I watched West World
         | with him and after seeing the intro only once I guessed
         | correctly that it was the same composer as the Game of Thrones
         | intro.
         | 
         | Sometimes I second guess myself too much between late Mozart
         | and early Beethoven but I think most the composers have their
         | own hallmarks.
         | 
         | Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his piano
         | writing was fairly innovative. He came up with a lot of new
         | ways to play the piano and his polish influences and focus on
         | salon music is very distinct
        
           | pubutil wrote:
           | If you haven't already heard of it, you might enjoy the Piano
           | Puzzler podcast[0]
           | 
           | "Bruce Adolphe re-writes a familiar tune in the style of a
           | classical composer ... [someone calls in and] listens to
           | Bruce play his Piano Puzzler(tm). They then try to do two
           | things: name the hidden tune, and name the composer whose
           | style Bruce is mimicking."
           | 
           | Of course, you can play along at home as you listen.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.npr.org/podcasts/381443927/performance-today-
           | s-p...
        
             | sho_hn wrote:
             | I like this one: https://youtu.be/WRfsibwR5x4
        
             | HERMANOPRIMERO wrote:
             | This reminds me of Hidden Melody from an old British quiz
             | show that I loved as a child: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wi
             | ki/Face_the_Music_(British_game....
        
           | Jabbles wrote:
           | Is the joke accurate in this example? Are there many tenths?
        
             | eitally wrote:
             | Yes, and it can be quite a stretch when playing. Similar to
             | Rachmaninoff in terms of "reach" (but absolutely not in
             | style).
             | 
             | (Am pianist, too.)
        
           | fsckboy wrote:
           | > _Chopin in particular was quite idiosyncratic because his
           | piano writing was fairly innovative_
           | 
           | I bow to your superior knowledge, just want to add for the
           | poor shlubs who are even dumber than me:
           | 
           | Chopin was not simply a composer, but a virtuoso piano
           | player, and i guess because of that he wrote what he wrote
           | for the piano; in contrast to say Mozart who performed at the
           | piano but mostly composed for orchestras, etc.
           | 
           | And the periods of time were different wrt, when Chopin was
           | active, Mozart, Beethoven et al's music innovations already
           | existed, along with larger audiences to play for, which
           | created Chopin's niche
           | 
           | or something like that, i'm not a music guy
        
             | Synaesthesia wrote:
             | Mozart, Beethoven, Bach and Brahms (as well as many other
             | composers) were all virtuoso piano or keyboard players.
             | 
             | Chopin is unusual in that he wrote almost exclusively for
             | the piano.
        
               | gmueckl wrote:
               | My understanding is that when writing for an orchestra, a
               | composer needs to adjust to the orchestra's skill level
               | and likely err a bit on the easy side for good measure.
        
               | tolciho wrote:
               | Most composers, most of the time. Beethoven, on the other
               | hand, refused to rewrite portions of the Ninth that were
               | maybe too high for some to sing, and you can probably
               | find difficult instrument parts if you chat to, say,
               | Bassoon players.
        
               | dbalatero wrote:
               | Heh to quote Beethoven (from:
               | https://brooklynrail.org/2007/07/music/third-party-
               | beethoven...):
               | 
               | > As practice gradually moved away from this insular
               | model, and standing, virtuoso quartets replaced ad hoc
               | groups as the chief vehicles of chamber music
               | performance, Beethoven's compositions became increasingly
               | experimental (and daunting). Legend has it that when
               | Ignaz Schuppanzigh--a well-known Viennese violinist and
               | Beethoven supporter--complained about a particularly
               | difficult passage in one of the Op. 59 quartets, the
               | master retorted, "Do you suppose I am thinking about your
               | wretched fiddle when the spirit moves me?"
        
               | fsckboy wrote:
               | maybe I don't use the words right, but go to each of
               | their wikipedia pages and search for the word "court".
               | You will see that Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven depended
               | much more heavily on the favor of the various noble
               | courts, while Chopin and the later Brahms were more
               | commercial (not in a bad way, just in a historical way)
        
           | bongodongobob wrote:
           | Check out Emmit Rhodes. My only music conspiracy theory is
           | that he was a ghost writer for Paul McCartney. The musical
           | similarities are absolutely uncanny.
        
           | tunesmith wrote:
           | There was a time when I was rather good at guessing the
           | composer from hearing a snippet of music I hadn't heard
           | before. We had a group exercise where I had a streak going of
           | guessing correctly every time. Then our instructor tricked us
           | by playing a snippet of a Chopin Concerto that didn't have
           | any piano in it. :)
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | Oh wow I had no idea westworld and got were the same guy!
           | Both themes were very noticeably a cut above; that totally
           | explains it.
        
           | yongjik wrote:
           | Another thing to remember is that the piano was very much an
           | instrument being developed during Mozart and Beethoven's
           | time. There's a reason why most of Beethoven's sonatas don't
           | utilize the uppermost and lowermost part of the modern piano:
           | he didn't have those keys then.
           | 
           | So, in a sense, these composers weren't writing for the same
           | instrument.
        
         | jancsika wrote:
         | > Obviously it's a bit late now, but it would have been an
         | interesting experiment - to ask 100 "professors of music" to
         | guess which composer out of [1] wrote this newly discovered
         | piece.
         | 
         | They'd have guessed correctly. But you already know ahead of
         | time that this newly discovered piece _is not_ , say, juvenilia
         | written by Scriabin specifically to imitate a Chopin waltz. And
         | in that case, 100 professors would have guessed wrong because
         | it would not have been the obvious answer.
         | 
         | Guessing composers based on sound/musical content alone is
         | problematic for many reasons:
         | 
         | 1. Common practice vs. composer's idiosyncrasies. Even
         | separating Mozart's oeuvre from Michael Haydn's (Joseph's
         | brother) has been non-trivial-- scholars have gotten it wrong
         | over the centuries. Also-- IIRC there is a research paper about
         | stylistic analyses leading to circular dependencies in the
         | attribution of works of Josquin. E.g., A is Josquin because it
         | sounds like Josquin's B, and B is Josquin because it sounds
         | like Josquin's A...
         | 
         | 2. Cross-contamination. Mozart _knew_ Michael and his music,
         | and was highly influenced by it. Compare the initial fugue at
         | the beginning of Haydn 's Requiem in C minor to Mozart's, plus
         | the upward cascade of vocal entrances. Additionally, Schumann
         | was influenced by Chopin, who was influenced by
         | Liszt/Schumann/Mozart/Bach/etc. The problem gets worse as you
         | go forward in history-- the next generation can take a
         | composer's entire output and use it as their bible, which leads
         | to...
         | 
         | 3. Experts are also composers, and the most highly trained ones
         | can write in the style of any composer whose works they have
         | access to. E.g., Scriabin's set of Preludes was obviously
         | written to be the _sequel_ to Chopin 's Op. 24 Preludes, (e.g.,
         | Chopin's no. 1 has a few fleeting quintuplets at the end,
         | Scriabin's no. 1 is _OMG all quintuplets phrased across
         | barlines till the very end [engine_revving.wav]!_ ). He
         | understood Chopin's formal and textural affinities, could match
         | his virtuosity at the keyboard, and fully immersed himself in
         | Chopin's harmonic language.
         | 
         | I have no doubt if Scriabin had wanted to do a prank (or, more
         | likely, an exercise) by writing a piece to fall convincingly
         | into Chopin's oeuvre, he could have done so at any point in his
         | career.
         | 
         | Plus...
         | 
         | 4. Confirmation bias. I _really_ want this to be a newly
         | discovered waltz by Chopin![1]
         | 
         | These are the reasons an article like this mentions things like
         | paper, ink and handwriting analysis.
         | 
         | 1: Digression-- scholars also like to omit things that they
         | feel don't reflect well on their favorite composer. For a fun
         | example, see:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_scatology
        
         | tristramb wrote:
         | Not now that AIs can generate music that sounds like any
         | composer.
        
           | t0bia_s wrote:
           | Not any. If you are careful listener, you can hear musically
           | nonsense (AI hallucinations) compositions. Of course it
           | depends on genre.
        
         | acheron wrote:
         | Chopin is pretty distinctive. I think the question would be if
         | someone could identify it as "actual lost Chopin" vs "modern
         | composer trying to imitate Chopin".
        
           | Archelaos wrote:
           | The question is, if someone who is a grand master in
           | identifying the "modern composer trying to imitate Chopin"
           | knows so much that his own Chopin imitations become
           | (statistically) undistinguishable from Chopin's own
           | compositions for anyone else. (Except for experts who know
           | every piece of Chopin and thus do not need to identify them
           | by style, but can use "brute force".)
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | AI will help/hinder this depending on individual views.
        
         | mrbonner wrote:
         | I gotta say that with Bach and Mozart, I feel like I could id
         | their pieces consistently. They have a distinct pattern of
         | symphony and motifs no other composers could mimic.
        
           | jhdias wrote:
           | No famous composers would want to mimic. Plenty of unknowns
           | can mimic.
        
             | powersnail wrote:
             | Fritz Kreisler faked some old composers'---e.g. Vivaldi's
             | ---work, claiming to have discovered some unpublished
             | manuscripts, but later revealed that they were his own
             | compositions all along.
             | 
             | It was mostly a prank on the music industry, but
             | nonetheless, mimicry of style was involved, and was enough
             | to fool many people for years.
        
             | klodolph wrote:
             | Famous composers mimicked other composers plenty, or
             | parodied other composers, copied them or played homages.
             | Mimicked, yes, famous composers definitely did mimic other
             | composers.
             | 
             | Prokofiev Symphony No. 1 is one of the more famous. It
             | mimics Mozart and Haydn (obvious choices!)
             | 
             | Stravinsky's Octet is another.
             | 
             | There are plenty of other examples. Those are just two of
             | the more obvious ones. Bach did it. Beethoven did it.
             | Mozart did it.
        
               | gmueckl wrote:
               | I guess the subtle distinction here is that these great
               | composers probably did it because they simply could do it
               | as one deliberate choice among many. Lesser composers may
               | be stuck mimicing a few styles because they lack the
               | skill to go beyond them.
               | 
               | But if some unpublished work mimics a certain style, I
               | would assume that it is an exercise to gain a better
               | understanding of that style.
        
             | mrbonner wrote:
             | Huh? Bach was the greatest recycler of all time. His
             | keyboard suites were all styled after popular dances in
             | Europe: the Allemande, the sarabande, courante and gigue.
             | He just one upped them to a whole new level.
             | 
             | If you listen to Haydn's sonatas, do you feel the
             | resemblance of Mozart's? Well, because Haydn taught both
             | Mozart and Beethoven.
             | 
             | Nothing is new under the sun, my friend.
        
         | shadowmanifold wrote:
         | You wouldn't have to be a professor of music for this.
         | 
         | Chopin has a unique style and it is a waltz.
         | 
         | This would have been a trivial question for any piano music
         | lover.
         | 
         | The only reason I might not have have guessed Chopin first is
         | it seems too obvious and easy if I had been asked. A new
         | Beatles song might be harder to guess than this.
         | 
         | I think it sounds pretty good too but I would want to hear it
         | performed by a pianist who I like the way they play Chopin to
         | judge it better. It sounds quite good considering I don't
         | really like the sound of the piano that is being used.
        
         | Tycho wrote:
         | I think the only composer who sounds at all like Chopin is
         | Scriabin.
        
           | richardfontana wrote:
           | Agreed, though I'm sure there were more obscure composers who
           | imitated Chopin.
           | 
           | Scriabin's op. 11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24_Preludes%2
           | C_Op._11_%28Scria... particularly shows Chopin's influence. I
           | have to admit I like these Scriabin preludes more than
           | Chopin's work.
        
       | mathgeek wrote:
       | Sounds like a great excuse to remaster/remake Endless Sonata.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I always assume these"long lost works" are fakes.
       | 
       | How do they know they aren't?
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | I bought an old school building from The Broude Brothers sheet
         | music archive.
         | 
         | https://imslp.org/wiki/Broude_Brothers
         | 
         | In addition to all the publishing activities they also acted as
         | verification service. Apparently it was common for Conductors
         | to modify compositions which over time drifted from the
         | original.
         | 
         | My understanding was that the family collection of sheet music
         | stretched back in time so they could verify the modifications.
         | 
         | The building had about 12,0000 square feet stacked floor to
         | ceiling sheet music.
         | 
         | Much of the sheet music ended up at the library of congress. I
         | can believe things could be both archived and lost.
        
           | analog31 wrote:
           | Indeed, I'm a jazz musician. There's huge amounts of material
           | created for the so called "big band" that exists only in
           | someone's basement, or is learned about by word of mouth.
        
       | lioeters wrote:
       | Rhymes with the "new" Mozart composition rediscovered last month.
       | 
       | > While compiling the Kochel catalogue's newest edition - an
       | authoritative list of all of Mozart's documented musical works -
       | classical music researchers rediscovered the manuscript of the
       | previously unknown piece from the Carl Ferdinand Becker
       | collection in Leipzig's music library.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganz_kleine_Nachtmusik#Redisco...
       | (Sept 2024)
        
         | Aidevah wrote:
         | Yes, although they are either juvenilia or relatively small
         | pieces that would not greatly change our understanding of the
         | composer in question.
         | 
         | On the other hand there is another piece of music "recovered"
         | this year not by rediscovery but by recomposition/restoration,
         | and it's quite a substantial piece that should provide quite a
         | useful new perspective on the composer[1][2].
         | 
         | [1] https://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/dc.asp?dc=D_CDA68460 [2]
         | https://doi.org/10.1093/em/caad055
        
       | 43natashalog wrote:
       | huh
        
       | G_o_D wrote:
       | Few slow tempo notes seems like i heard in some old indian drama
       | hatim soundtrack
        
       | rurban wrote:
       | Kirill Gerstein played it Friday in his Tschaikowsky concert in
       | Dresden. I didn't like it that much, compared to Tschaikowsky's
       | 1st and a Rachmaninoff. And the two modern pieces by Fagerlund
       | and Lutoslawski. Esp. Fagerlund blew away all the others.
        
       | visarga wrote:
       | From now on we must be wondering if AI was used to assist a
       | forgery whenever we "discover" old lost music.
        
       | plunderer wrote:
       | https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/27/arts/music/chopin-waltz-d...
       | 
       | https://vp.nyt.com/video/2024/10/15/127974_1_chopin-find-353...
       | 
       | https://archive.is/tjk6Q
        
       | jb1991 wrote:
       | As far as Chopin waltzes go, this is certainly not among his
       | best. It almost feels unfinished. I wonder if he dashed it off
       | quickly as a gift (suggested in one of the articles about it)
       | rather than ever as an intent to have published.
        
       | brilee wrote:
       | I transcribed the score, available here:
       | 
       | https://www.moderndescartes.com/essays/chopin_waltz_posthumo...
        
       | odyssey7 wrote:
       | This is genuinely a good waltz.
       | 
       | Sometimes, they will discover a lost piece by some known
       | composer, and the media will pick it up. But imo, when you have a
       | listen, it often turns out that the piece had been lost for a
       | reason.
       | 
       | What makes this waltz remarkable as a new discovery, in my
       | opinion, is that it is more or less a finished work; the
       | composition is so distinctively a work by Chopin; and the work
       | brings something novel to the oeuvre.
       | 
       | ----
       | 
       | As for the debut, I think someone involved could have been more
       | thoughtful. It feels as if some people in NYC saw a chance to be
       | the first to debut, and they ran with it. It was published in the
       | NYTimes, with a New York-based pianist, with New York's "Steinway
       | Hall," which reads like a product placement. Chopin wrote these
       | intimate pieces for the acoustics of small, intimate settings,
       | and for nothing like a modern Steinway concert grand piano.
       | 
       | Maybe they could have instead worked with some local cultural
       | organization in Poland, which could have made the debut a
       | significant local cultural thing? Maybe taking the chance to
       | promote an early-career pianist from Chopin's homeland, rather
       | than the career of a world-famous New Yorker?
        
         | gdevic wrote:
         | Agree. Lang Lang is all about theatrics, also.
        
         | tzs wrote:
         | > This is genuinely a good waltz
         | 
         | I thought that waltzes in classical music were meant to be
         | danced to. Listening to the performance from the Times article,
         | I'm not sure how one would dance to this. I'm not hearing
         | anything that tells me which notes I should be syncing movement
         | to.
         | 
         | What makes it a waltz instead of some other form that happens
         | to be in 3/4 time?
        
           | odyssey7 wrote:
           | Chopin is associated with waltzes and mazurkas, both of which
           | are dance forms in triple meter.
           | 
           | A mazurka will emphasize either its measures' second beats or
           | third beats. This might be kind of difficult to identify in
           | Lang Lang's interpretation, but a waltz differs from a
           | mazurka by having a more steady tempo and by placing the
           | emphasis on the first beat of each measure, usually matching
           | what you were probably expecting.
           | 
           | I'm not sure how many of Chopin's dance-form pieces were
           | meant for actual dancing, but it is fairly common for
           | composers to write according to stylistic elements of a dance
           | form without intending the work for an actual dance.
        
         | alkyon wrote:
         | Lang Lang doesn't need further promotion, but still his
         | showmanship is really not in the spirit of Chopin's muisc.
         | 
         | I would like to hear an interpretation of it by someone who won
         | International Chopin Competition in Warsaw in the recent years
         | (like Blechacz or Liu for instance).
        
         | jakubadamw wrote:
         | Thank you for this comment.
         | 
         | > Maybe they could have instead worked with some local cultural
         | organization in Poland, which could have made the debut a
         | significant local cultural thing?
         | 
         | I suppose the NYTimes could not be bothered to look for someone
         | to work with in Poland or Europe generally (France would be
         | another option), which is, indeed, a shame. In my home town
         | Krakow we have a wonderful chamber music collective which
         | performs music from this very period on historical piano
         | fortes, so very much the kind of instruments Chopin would play
         | on himself. I contacted them immediately after reading this
         | article and before your comment appeared. I am hopeful we will
         | hear the piece performed by them very soon!
        
           | aziaziazi wrote:
           | Thanks ! Fantastic ! Please share it here when ready !
        
       | alkyon wrote:
       | This is not about handwriting, the key thing is that this really
       | sounds like Chopin - a true signature is there even if not
       | written by hand.
       | 
       | I can't recommend more Alan Walker's "Fryderyk Chopin: A Life and
       | Times", which I happen to be reading now.
        
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