[HN Gopher] Apple wins $250 US jury verdict in patent case over ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple wins $250 US jury verdict in patent case over Masimo
       smartwatches
        
       Author : mistersquid
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2024-10-26 16:10 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.reuters.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.reuters.com)
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | Suggested Title change: s/wins $250/wins only $250.00/
       | 
       | That'd minimal editorializing - while making it quite clear that
       | there is no missing 'K', let alone missing 'M'.
        
         | stillwaitingpls wrote:
         | It's already old news at this point. The major damage you
         | highlighted is already done.
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | Email the mods (footer contact link) if you'd like to see the
         | title changed; make your case, or link your comment here, and
         | they may agree with you. Otherwise they probably won't see this
         | comment (whether it's upvoted or not).
        
         | lttlrck wrote:
         | "wins token $250"
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | A quarter of a cost of monitor stand.
        
       | HumblyTossed wrote:
       | Title really doesn't do the article justice. There's a BIT more
       | going on there than just the $250 that Apple got.
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Small discussion (13 points, 17 hours ago, 5 comments)
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41950858
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | In case the point is missed: Apple asked for $250, stating their
       | cases was on principle. The courts aren't slighting Apple.
        
         | borski wrote:
         | > Apple's attorneys told the court the "ultimate purpose" of
         | its lawsuit was not money, but to win an injunction against
         | sales of Masimo's smartwatches after an infringement ruling.
         | 
         | But on this point, they lost. $250 is the statutory minimum in
         | the US for infringement. Apple did not successfully win an
         | injunction, which was what they really wanted.
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | Interesting, I figured now they're going for an injunction,
           | now that they have the ruling, no?
           | 
           | I don't think you can get a jury ruling then immediately ask
           | for an injunction with the same judge and all
           | 
           | Fwiw I'm a bit confused overall, it seems like either Apple
           | is full on Baghdad Bob'ing or there's still an injunction to
           | go for. More I think about, it's probably A :p
        
             | borski wrote:
             | Apple sued for infringement of their design patents, for
             | Masimo's old watches and chargers, and asked for $250 in
             | damages. They won that set of claims, meaning Masimo's old
             | watches and chargers infringe.
             | 
             | Masimo's current products did not infringe, and Apple tried
             | to sue on the basis that they infringed their
             | technical/utility patents. On this set of claims, the jury
             | disagreed, and the damages Apple was asking for there was
             | injunctive relief against Masimo's current products (aka
             | taking them off the market). They lost that. They can't go
             | for an injunction since the jury ruled that Masimo's
             | current products do not infringe.
        
           | selimnairb wrote:
           | But now someone at Apple can treat themselves to a very nice
           | dinner.
        
             | sph wrote:
             | $250 for a nice dinner? In this economy?
        
               | selimnairb wrote:
               | In America 2024, $250 dinner eats you!
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | Well, no.
         | 
         | They didn't say it was on principle, they said they were going
         | for a ruling so they could then apply for an injunction.
         | 
         | They got a judgement on a discontinued charger, which makes it
         | seem unlikely they'll be able to go for an injunction on
         | today's watches.
        
       | kylehotchkiss wrote:
       | Does this mean watches will get their blood oxygen sensors back?
       | The news hasn't yet seemed to clear this up for me
        
         | inquirerGeneral wrote:
         | No
        
         | mauriciob wrote:
         | That's a separate case (Masimo suing Apple) which is still
         | ongoing. Apple countersued to try to block Masimo from
         | releasing their own smartwatch, this article refers to this
         | case.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | Right. Quite possibly to have a better bargaining position in
           | negotiations to be allowed to turn that feature back on.
           | 
           | Interesting to see what happens next. I never thought the
           | original injunction would go into place, let alone be allowed
           | to go on this long.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Yes, but not because of this specific verdict. This was a
         | (failed) attempt to impact the ability of Masimo to sell its
         | own smartwatch, in which case Masimo would've lost the ability
         | to continue blocking imports of Apple Watches with an enabled
         | pulse oximetry feature in the U.S.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Can you convert $250 to number of apple smart watches?
        
         | pinkmuffinere wrote:
         | Not sure if this request is serious, but it's approx 0.5 Apple
         | smart watches
        
       | Cheer2171 wrote:
       | Apple sued for violations of both design patents and tech
       | patents. Apple won that Masimo's design infringes on Apple's
       | design patents, for which they only asked for $250. Apple lost
       | the other technology patent infringement parts of the case, for
       | which they were asking for an injunction against Masimo selling
       | their watches.
        
         | borski wrote:
         | To be clear, Masimo's _old_ (and previously discontinued)
         | design infringes on Apple's design patents, not the one
         | presently on the market.
        
       | jijji wrote:
       | It looks like Apple's claims were related to the charging of the
       | watch itself... Which brings me to my question of why not use
       | standard USB Type-C charging ports instead of some proprietary
       | charging method? It seems like from the very beginning it is a
       | poor choice, on both parties, to charge a device using a non-
       | standard charging device.
        
         | arjvik wrote:
         | It makes sense to have wearables like watches and smart rings
         | charge via wireless inductive charging, because the physical
         | space of even a USB-C port inside a watch is quite limiting for
         | the electronics that can be placed inside the watch, and
         | physically wouldn't fit inside of a ring.
        
           | sjm-lbm wrote:
           | Wireless inductive charging also allows for a (more) sealed
           | case design, which is helpful for a device that will almost
           | certainly encounter moisture in normal use cases.
           | 
           | I can keep my phone somewhere dry when it's raining, I've
           | never thought to take off my watch when it rains.
        
             | MBCook wrote:
             | Even just sweat would be a problem, especially with fitness
             | being such a big selling point.
        
               | chedabob wrote:
               | Ye it's a big issue with Garmin's pogo-pin charge port.
               | The pins corrode, and for some unlucky people, create
               | quite serious skin irritation.
        
       | paultopia wrote:
       | Can someone please explain why Apple doesn't just buy Masimo in a
       | fight like this? Their market cap is like 5% of Apple's annual
       | profit...
        
         | adtac wrote:
         | so that the next company won't sue
        
         | sxg wrote:
         | Masimo's CEO and board have to approve the purchase, but it
         | appears that Masimo isn't interested in being bought.
        
           | MBCook wrote:
           | The CEO wasn't. Rumors were he was single-handedly refusing
           | to listen to any offer, which is why (supposedly) he was
           | pushed out recently.
           | 
           | Somewhat surprising a deal wasn't made after that. Perhaps
           | Apple though this would strengthen their bargaining position
           | and was waiting to see how this would go.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | The CEO has resigned as of a month ago (or forced out rather)
           | 
           | The primary investors seem quite upset with his handling of
           | this. Rumours are that he was hostile to a buyout but in his
           | lawsuit has also invalidated a lot of their own patents.
           | 
           | So it's a pyrrhic victory at best for him. I assume the new
           | CEO will be expected to look to play better and reduce the
           | damage.
        
       | andrewoneone wrote:
       | With this case it seems like Apple is just going to take them to
       | court again and again until the well runs dry and Masimo's
       | patents can be purchased for pennies on the dollar.
       | https://www.masimoconsumer.com/ Their products feel
       | simultaneously like knock offs and 5 years old all at once.
        
         | qwtree wrote:
         | Seems like a good outcome. Patent trolls should occasional
         | suffer some consequences of their actions (I know that Masimo
         | sells actual products but they pulse oximetry patent is just
         | silly...)
        
           | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
           | Masimo basically came up with the idea of how to do it
           | accurately long before anyone else right? Is that really
           | trolling? I don't recall the details but I remember thinking
           | they actually had a legitimate claim.
        
             | dagmx wrote:
             | They actually had the majority of their patents invalidated
             | during the legal process.
             | 
             | The one patent they have remaining (that is what Apple are
             | dealing with) is on a very particular sensor configuration
             | not the concept or technology in general beyond that.
        
       | amar0c wrote:
       | Why do hackernews people share links behind paywalls and pop-up's
       | that want me to disable ad blocker ?
        
       | ryanobjc wrote:
       | In every single press release Masimo complains apple hired away
       | staff.
       | 
       | Um, you are in California. There are no non-competes.
       | 
       | You just are confessing every single time you can't retain
       | talented staff.
        
       | wombatpm wrote:
       | Any reason that Apple just doesn't buy the company outright?
       | Market cap is only 7.5B.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-10-26 23:04 UTC)