[HN Gopher] The Japanese word ikigai refers to a passion that gi...
___________________________________________________________________
The Japanese word ikigai refers to a passion that gives joy to life
(2022)
Author : craigkerstiens
Score : 186 points
Date : 2024-10-22 15:41 UTC (4 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.japan.go.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.japan.go.jp)
| huvarda wrote:
| This article kind of feels like a "place, Japan" type of article
| not going to lie. "There is no other word like this in any other
| language." Passion? Purpose?
| MarkSweep wrote:
| Looking at an Japanese to English dictionary:
|
| https://jisho.org/search/%E7%94%9F%E3%81%8D%E7%94%B2%E6%96%9...
|
| Besides the examples you mention, the French phrase "raison
| d'etre" is commonly used in English well.
| vunderba wrote:
| But summing up their "profound discovery" in a single sentence
| wouldn't give them the opportunity to write a 200 page
| bloviated soft-serve yogurt treatise on the guaranteed secrets
| to true happiness.
| asdasdsddd wrote:
| that's how i feel about umami (savoury) and kawaii (cute)
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| People using "umami" in English is a big pet peeve of mine.
| It's so damn pretentious. "Savory" covers the meaning more
| than adequately and has existed in the language for a long
| time. There's no reason for the foreign loan word except to
| try to sound super smart.
| dymk wrote:
| It's not the same flavor
| yen223 wrote:
| Umami refers to a specific flavour, savoury refers to a
| broad category of foods that are basically not sweet. You
| can have "savoury" meals that have no umami flavour.
| quesera wrote:
| Umami is a subset of savory.
|
| It's not pretentious (when used correctly), it's more
| precise.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| That is correct. I buy a liquid specifically labeled as
| 'Umami' that my family adds to vegetables, rice, etc.
| echoangle wrote:
| Is the liquid MSG solution or is there something else in
| there?
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| No MSG.
| echoangle wrote:
| So what is it?
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| Yondu vegetable umami
| mock-possum wrote:
| Can you not distinguish the flavour of umami from other
| flavors?
| hatthew wrote:
| I disagree. As the other comments have stated, umami and
| savory are completely different words. I agree that kawaii
| and cute are synonyms, but I only see it being used in
| vaguely japanese-related contexts, where it's not necessary
| but also not in any way a misuse, similar to how "hors
| d'oeuvre" is used in place of "appetizer".
| musicale wrote:
| It's easy to find examples such as:
|
| "Taste receptors in the mouth sense the five basic tastes:
| sweetness, sourness, saltiness, bitterness, and savoriness
| (also known as savory or umami)"
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste#Basic_tastes
| trinix912 wrote:
| It is an article on a Japanese Government website, of course
| they're going to promote themselves.
|
| Honestly, I find it weird to have this posted here. It's just a
| classic "Welcome to ____" site for attracting tourists.
| creamyhorror wrote:
| I have to wonder who is upvoting this promotional material.
| Has this reconstructed ikigai concept not burnt through
| social media already, or will we have to see it resurge every
| few years?
| brabel wrote:
| There's a weird fascination in much of the Western world with
| Japan. We see posts talking about Japan on the first page of
| HN quite regularly.
|
| I am myself somewhat fascinated with Japan as I grew up with
| many Japanese descendants (their parents were "real"
| japanese, I am from Brazil and most of them came to Brazil in
| the 50's, so my friends born in the 70's and 80's were still
| first generation brazilians) and have been there to visit
| them once.... but I find it odd that there's no such
| fascination with most other countries.
|
| I suspect it's because Japan is both very different
| culturally, but very similar in level of development, so it's
| "easier" to like them instead of think of them as inferiors
| (which was how the West seemed to see them before the Great
| Wars, from what I read).
| Minor49er wrote:
| "Vocation" is a synonym, though it is misrepresented by the
| Venn diagram at the bottom of the article
|
| Looking up "vocation" in modern dictionaries just says that
| it's a career, but that is wrong. The real meaning is a
| "calling", or: something that brings good to the world, that
| you can do, that you enjoy doing, and that sustains your
| livelihood
|
| I grew up around Lutheran communities who stressed what a gift
| a vocation is because it isn't something that most people can
| reach. But we shouldn't stop looking for ours
| volemo wrote:
| What is "the real meaning" of a word though?
| Minor49er wrote:
| The definition it is given by the group that actually uses
| it
| quesera wrote:
| Have you heard of "vocational schools"?
|
| That use of the term is no more "wrong" than yours --
| i.e. they are both correct and clear in context.
|
| I'm very aware of the Latin root.
| card_zero wrote:
| On average, "water".
| SatvikBeri wrote:
| From the excellent 1913 Webster's dictionary:
|
| Vo-ca'tion (vo-ka'shun), noun [L. vocatio a bidding,
| invitation, fr. vocare to call, fr. vox, vocis, voice: cf. F.
| vocation. See Vocal.]
|
| 1. A call; a summons; a citation; especially, a designation
| or appointment to a particular state, business, or
| profession.
|
| 2. Destined or appropriate employment; calling; occupation;
| trade; business; profession.
|
| 3. (Theol.) A calling by the will of God. Specifically: -
|
| (a) The bestowment of God's distinguishing grace upon a
| person or nation, by which that person or nation is put in
| the way of salvation; as, the vocation of the Jews under the
| old dispensation, and of the Gentiles under the gospel.
|
| (b) A call to special religious work, as to the ministry.
| bovermyer wrote:
| I take issue with the phrasing, but not with the meaning,
| especially with the historical context.
|
| More or less: that thing which you seem to have an
| overriding passion for, which usually leads to talent. Even
| if it doesn't, though, it's still something that defines a
| significant part of your life and character, and that is
| not to be ignored.
| yen223 wrote:
| A "calling" seems like a perfectly cromulent word for what's
| being talked about
| wnc3141 wrote:
| I went to a Lutheran school that did a mini camp for finding
| vocation.
|
| However when interacting the job market, I realized early on
| in my career that the modern economy leaves little room for
| exploring just that. Those I've observed bucking that trend I
| would more describe as "following their curiosity" - because
| usually, some good comes of it, even if you're not sure where
| it leads.
| zikduruqe wrote:
| > the modern economy leaves little room for exploring just
| that
|
| If the needs of medical insurance was not tied to a proper
| "job", people might just follow their curiosities.
| tpoacher wrote:
| Not a Japanese person, but the way this has been explained to
| me feels slightly broader than the concept of vocation.
|
| The explanation was more along the lines of, "what gives your
| life meaning, joy, and purpose, and makes you motivated to
| get out of bed every morning and venture out into the world
| to do your thing and contribute to the world around you".
|
| So your vocation might be teaching more generally but your
| ikigai might be teaching that one class of delinquent kids
| nobody likes, and striving to make them succeed, for example?
| But maybe I'm wrong.
|
| Also, the venn diagram at the bottom is lacking the most
| important information, what the 'curved triangles' represent.
| There's a better one here:
| https://i0.wp.com/marieskelton.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2020/0... (ironically taken from another
| article like the one linked here.
| https://marieskelton.com/finding-your-passion-and-purpose/ )
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > that sustains your livelihood
|
| That is the part that makes it different. "Ikigai" isn't
| bound to an occupation or work, where "vocation" has to be.
|
| I'm also not sure it needs to have a positive connotation
| ("brings good to the world"), making people's lives a
| nightmare can be your reason and pleasure to live. That's of
| course not the PR piece's point of view, I agree with the
| other comments on how bad that Venn diagram is at the end.
| ninalanyon wrote:
| Which dictionaries are they? I've never seen that. Here's the
| entry from the Cambridge Dictionary:
|
| a type of work that you feel you are suited to doing and to
| which you should give all your time and energy, or the
| feeling that a type of work suits you in this way:
|
| I feel I've found/missed my true vocation.
|
| Most teachers regard their profession as a vocation, not just
| a job.
|
| To work in medicine, you should have a vocation for it.
|
| Synonym calling formal
|
| Compare career noun
|
| https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/vocation
| fildevtronic wrote:
| You do realise that this is published by the Japanese
| government, right?
| xelxebar wrote:
| I like to think of words having two layers of meaning: The
| first is closer to what we think of as The Meaning and is an
| extrinsic referent, such as a physical item, some cultural
| custom, or an emotion or feeling. The second layer is nuance,
| _i.e._ the cloud of homonymic overtones, cultural and
| historical associations, and habitual usages that color the
| first meaning.
|
| The second layer controls things like formality register (
| _e.g._ business languages vs. informal vernacular), mood,
| jokes, and all the elements of communication that go beyond
| just base information transfer.
|
| In my experience when translating between languages, it's
| virtually impossible to capture the subtleties of the second
| layer of meaning. You always have to make some concessions,
| pertinent to the intent and goals of the communication at hand.
| _E.g._ translating a joke in a business exchange will often
| choose different translations for the same words used in a more
| brass-tacks context.
|
| Anyway, all that is to say that, sure, "passion" or "purpose"
| are perfectly fine translations of ikigai (Sheng kiJia Fei ),
| but they simultaneously connote very different things. Passion
| invokes images of strong emotions, beliefs, or some fire under
| the feet. Purpose potentially conjures ideas of necessity or
| philosophical meaning. None of these things are really
| suggested by the Japanese word.
|
| More generally, the the "gai" suffix (Jia Fei ) is used on
| verbs to mean something like "to be worth doing" or "to have
| been worth doing". In particular, it's often used to refer to
| the particular result or effect that makes the thing worth
| doing. In the case of "ikigai", we combine it with "iki", from
| the verb "to live" (Sheng kiru), which gives us something like
| "the thing that makes life worth living".
|
| The main feeling difference between "ikigai" and "purpose" or
| "passion", IMHO, is that the Japanese is light, personal, and
| something that doesn't need significance beyond personal
| enjoyment, pleasure, or values.
|
| </2cents>
| m463 wrote:
| "get a life"? (seriously)
| wampwampwhat wrote:
| not to be confused with ikijime: The secret to tasty fish
| Minor49er wrote:
| "I want fugu!"
| isamuel wrote:
| At the end, there's one of the craziest Venn diagrams I've seen
| in a while. The diagram asserts that --- by definition --- you
| aren't good at your "mission," the world does not need your
| "profession," you can't be paid for your "passion," and you can't
| love your "vocation." Grim!
| kulahan wrote:
| That's not what it's trying to imply. It's saying that if you
| chose a job based on what the world needs and what you love
| doing, you're in the realm of completing a mission. Then you
| look at the diagram to see what you're missing to reach Ikigai.
| This is a very "glass half empty" look at a literal diagram
| lol.
| grisBeik wrote:
| There's this diagram, and there's David Graeber's book
| Bullshit Jobs.
|
| "What you love" and "What you are good at" certainly have a
| non-empty intersection, but that's mostly a distinct set from
| "what you can be paid for". "What you are good at" and "What
| you can be paid for" also have a non-empty intersection, but
| that set is again (mostly) distinct from "what you love". In
| brief, you can enjoy work, but then it will pay shit, or you
| can make money, but you'll hate it.
|
| The most interesting part however is the right hand side.
| "What you can be paid for" and "What the world needs" have a
| practically empty intersection. Regardless of both personal
| skill and drive, there is effectively zero money available
| for the sorest needs of society. (Public healthcare
| (including mental health), public education, public
| infrastructure, etc.)
|
| Nice diagram, but a pipe dream.
| iterance wrote:
| The obvious question to ask about this purported "pick two"
| triad is, _why must that be so?_
|
| - If one is good at their job, why does that imply that
| either they won't be paid well, or they'll hate it?
|
| - If one enjoys their job, why does that imply they must be
| paid poorly or suck at it?
|
| - If one is paid well, why does that imply they will be
| eaten alive by work or terrible at their job?
|
| The assertions such diagrams make just don't stand up to
| scrutiny when viewed in reverse. They should stand up to
| symmetry, and clearly do not; the veneer of logic is peeled
| away. Instead it reveals the underlying issue: they serve
| only to elucidate a cynical outlook.
|
| Perhaps in general, I'll admit, there is presently a
| shortage of opportunities working for the public good; but
| I'm reluctant to even give an inch on that because it lends
| itself to a cynical belief system about the world which the
| statement alone does not imply: it is not necessarily a
| true inference to say that, if there is a shortage, there
| will never be; or, that if one wants such a job, they will
| never be able to get it and best give up early.
|
| Don't let cynicism take you. It will take, and take, and
| take, and leave you only table scraps of joy.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| > The obvious question to ask about this purported "pick
| two" triad is, why must that be so?
|
| It is not a law of the universe, so the answer to your
| question is "it isn't necessarily". But even if it isn't
| always true, it's _usually_ true. And thus it 's a useful
| metric to keep in mind. Being lucky enough to get all
| three qualities in your job is rare, and you can't expect
| that it'll happen.
| shadowmanifold wrote:
| These are basically narratives from Romantic fiction of
| the starving artist that are still being repeated as if
| they are not just fiction.
|
| Of course, the starving artist can not be well paid. That
| would imply they are not a true artist, they are a sell
| out.
|
| The starving artist is starving because they are
| misunderstood by society so naturally what they love is
| not going to have a lot of economic value.
|
| None of this of course has anything to do with reality.
| Just the plot lines from 200 year old novels that we have
| forgot were just novels.
| aimor wrote:
| You're not reading it right. The labels overlap, they are not
| disjoint.
| euroderf wrote:
| and furthermore that particular configuration is not set in
| stone !
|
| The point of the exercise is to maximize the overlap ! Brown
| goooood.
| quesera wrote:
| > _The diagram asserts that --- by definition --- you aren 't
| good at your "mission,"_
|
| This is a misreading of the Venn diagram. Ikigai is the only
| section where Passion, Mission, Profession, and Vocation all
| intersect. The "Passion" etc sections are not bounded to the
| 2-layer overlaps where the labels sit, they extend into the 3
| and 4-layer overlaps also.
|
| But I'll grant you that the Venn diagram is crazy and
| overpacked.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Is this term actually used widely through Japanese culture or are
| they just riding the popularity train? E.g. if I'm in a "planning
| your future career" class in a high school in Japan, is the
| concept of ikigai going to come up?
| blargey wrote:
| It's a normal word/concept that everyone's familiar with.
|
| As for career planning, I don't think it's very relevant. The
| sorta-equivalent sayings like "do what you love and you'll
| never work a day in your life!" tend to be used in a way that
| puts existing preferences and interests first, and everything
| else as a consequence of it. The way I'd think of "ikigai" in a
| career context, the work being meaningful (as in the opposite
| of a "bullshit job") is what comes first. Since it's
| meaningful, it's something the world needs, so you can get paid
| for it. Since it's the opposite of a bullshit job, you're
| motivated to devote the time and effort and attention to
| be(come) good at it. A job well-done is satisfying. So I'd
| envision it as something you settle into, rather than plan
| ahead with your guidance counselor equivalent.
|
| It's also not necessarily a word specific to jobs/careers in
| the first place, and in a literal sense only means "I live for
| this" / "it's worth living for". The rest is a recent fixation
| by writers.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| No. It's just lifestyle marketing.
| Ferret7446 wrote:
| It's a normal term, but I'm not familiar with it being used
| like this. This does smell like a "self improvement" marketing
| push.
|
| The Japanese Wikipedia article seems to heavily cite Western
| sources as the origin for this usage.
|
| https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%94%9F%E3%81%8D%E7%94%B2%E6...
|
| Back in reality, the word is more commonly used in the
| expression Sheng kiJia Fei gaaru (ikigai ga aru) which means
| roughly "Life is good", "I'm glad to be alive", which you might
| use after sipping a really good beer for example.
| mcqueenjordan wrote:
| Most Japanese people do not use this term, and I'm fairly
| certain most Japanese people don't even really know the word.
| This is one of those "Big in Japan" things, except, uh, "Big
| outside Japan".
|
| Source: live in Japan, have asked Japanese people around me if
| they know about this concept (that is popular in USA). Usually
| hear: he~ , Quan Ran Zhi ranai.
| sweeter wrote:
| have hobbies and goals and participate in community activities...
| I don't know how I feel about platitudes like this. On one hand,
| it is obviously true and doing this things will make you feel
| better... but at the same time I think most people already
| understand this and its not a matter of simply not knowing that
| this is a helpful thing to do.
| revorad wrote:
| This is an interesting take on the concept of Ikigai -
| https://www.lkazphoto.com/blog/photography-and-ikigai
| lobochrome wrote:
| Good old orientalism
| rjaknba wrote:
| This is a meaningless diagram that CEOs roll out when they want
| to make the point that everyone should focus more on business.
|
| It has the same value as the Gartner Magic Quadrant.
| androng wrote:
| >When we asked what their ikigai was, they gave us explicit
| answers, such as their friends, gardening, and art
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong but almost no one is paid for friends,
| gardening or art. And the definition of ikigai is "something you
| can be paid for". So this concept of ikigai essentially does not
| exist.
| addicted wrote:
| Based on the article alone, you seem to be getting that from
| the Venn diagram. But the Venn diagram doesn't attempt to
| define Ikigai. It's a tool to help one find their own ikigai.
|
| The definition of ikugai in the article does not include
| something you can be paid for.
| somethoughts wrote:
| My hot take is that the part that got lost in translation as it
| transitioned into a pithy airport bookstore business book is
| that it originally didn't have to be a single activity that
| covers all of the Venn diagram.
|
| It is more about making sure the union of the Venn diagram is
| covered by one or more daily activities. So hobbies are about
| ensuring that you are not just focusing on the vocation circle.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I read the book referenced in the article. Recommended!
|
| Simple but effective ideas. Similar in vibe to the book The Four
| Agreements.
| somethoughts wrote:
| I found this useful
|
| The Problem with Ikigai
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeX6kNbaF0w
|
| The TLDR I got from is that first - that the diagram itself was
| made up by someone trying to write a business blog/book.
|
| The second is that the goal is not to find one singular activity
| to cover the intersection of the Ikigai Venn diagram. Instead it
| can be better to have multiple different activities which ensure
| the union of the Ikigai Venn diagram is covered so you aren't
| myopically focused on one area of it.
| hindsightbias wrote:
| Seems like someone would be lucky to have the intersection of
| three or four.
| silcoon wrote:
| I like how the sets in the articles show that you cannot love
| your profession
| Rendello wrote:
| My Japanese friend said "My Sheng kiJia Fei is travel". She was
| unfamiliar with the Venn diagram, for her she would directly
| translate it as "passion".
|
| Turns out the Venn diagram relation is from a random 2014 blog
| post. He just found a Venn diagram online and replaced the word
| "purpose" with "ikigai":
|
| http://theviewinside.wpengine.com/meme-seeding/
| turnsout wrote:
| I've talked to a number of Japanese people about Ikigai, and
| they either didn't know about the Venn diagram, or thought it
| misrepresented the concept. It's the modern-day equivalent of
| "the Chinese word for crisis" [0]. But now it's unstoppable--
| I'm sure you can find pillows on Etsy with the diagram.
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_word_for_crisis
| senectus1 wrote:
| I think I have an issue with knowing what I love.
|
| I dont actually know what I love, so I'm not sure I can ever find
| Ikigai in my life...
| 999900000999 wrote:
| According to this, if I ever make a living off music I'd be in
| paradise.
|
| Too bad Suno can crank out weird lofi beats faster than I can...
| wodenokoto wrote:
| Ikigai is a great branding for Japan. They've taken a word,
| declared it untranslatable and a unique component of Japanese
| culture.
|
| Denmark has done the same with the word "Hygge" and you'll find
| books named "hygge", next to books named "ikigai" in self-help
| section of any airport bookstore.
|
| I don't think discussing ikigai is uninteresting, but there is a
| feedback loop. Japanese soft power benefits from ikigai being
| special, and books and articles about ikigai also benefits from
| it being unique and special. The more books you can sell on
| ikigai, the stronger Japans cultural influence becomes and as a
| result, the potential readership of ikigai book grows.
| gwervc wrote:
| > They've taken a word, declared it untranslatable and a unique
| component of Japanese culture.
|
| Pretty sure this is foreigners who did this. On the other hand,
| a lot of Japanese are convinced they're living in the only
| country with 4 seasons.
| camgunz wrote:
| This reminded me of Japanese micro seasons [0] which I found
| delightful.
|
| 0: https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00124/
| helb wrote:
| I have these in my google calendar. Kinda forgot they were
| japanese and they don't line up with our (european) weather
| perfectly, but i still enjoy seeing them there.
|
| Found them on HN years ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20377098
| DavideNL wrote:
| Thanks for the link!
| InfiniteLoup wrote:
| There are a number of books about supposedly "unique" cultural
| phenomena like this one:
|
| - Niksen (Dutch)
|
| - Sisu (Finnish)
|
| - Dostadning (Swedish)
|
| - Lagom (Swedish)
|
| - Reussir sans forcer (French)
|
| - Raising Self-Reliant Children (German)
|
| - Wabi Sabi (Japanese)
|
| I wonder what other unique cultural concepts HN users have come
| across (perhaps from their own culture)?
| cwmoore wrote:
| - Freedom (US)
|
| I would like to see the Venn diagram for it?
|
| Here's ikigai's:
|
| https://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/pensights/finding-l.
| ..
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| > _the Venn diagram_ ( ijawfnltl: ( f ) af
| )
|
| ijawfnltl = is just another word for nothing left to lose
|
| f = freedom
|
| af = ain't free
|
| Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc
| d-trieu wrote:
| > Dostadning
|
| I've never heard of this despite living in Sweden for over 30
| years
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I would have thought the Swedish word encapsulating a
| better life, would have been "fika"
|
| Anyway, death cleaning seems more like a small Maria Kondo
| moment for Sweden than an actual cultural thing
|
| https://www.countryliving.com/home-
| maintenance/cleaning/a451...
| marttt wrote:
| Estonians as "forest people" -- Estonian researchers tracing
| the roots of this myth here:
| https://keeljakirjandus.ee/en/archives/26316
|
| A full-length article by the same scholars:
| https://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol81/remmel_jonuks.pdf
|
| FWIW, I'm by no means trying to be cynical, especially
| considering that I do some (lighter) forestry work myself,
| have done lots of tree planting and definitely love being in
| the wilderness. Forest and nature _do_ play a central role in
| our cultural heritage. Currently, however, other members of
| this same society carry out massive clear-cuttings in our
| forests. So... this is "us" as well, I guess. Demolishing
| and praising, side by side. That's why the work of these
| referred two scholars is really interesting, maybe even
| corageous in a way, considering that "forest wars" are a huge
| topic in Estonia these days.
| fuzztester wrote:
| Susegad in Goa.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susegad
| nabla9 wrote:
| Foreigners, especially journalists, do this in every article
| about Japan. Easy template:
|
| ____ the Japanese art of ____.
|
| For example:
|
| O-shiri-o-kaku the Japanese art of ass scratching.
|
| They do it with thumb or something.
| SpicyLemonZest wrote:
| I saw a coffee ad yesterday waxing poetic about the calmness
| and ancient history of traditional Japanese kissaten and my
| eyes just about rolled out of my head. It's totally unlike an
| American coffeehouse, you see, because they use _dark
| roasts_.
| left-struck wrote:
| To add to this, I would argue that ikigai can be directly
| translated to purpose in English. Sure purpose has additional
| meanings, and ikigai has a philosophy behind it which one word
| like "purpose" does not convey, but if you use purpose in a
| sentence that has something to do with how you find meaning in
| life and a reason to go on, then people will correctly
| understand your meaning.
|
| If purpose is not good enough then try "a reason for being" "a
| reason to live" etc
|
| Maybe people are confusing describing a whole philosophical
| concept with translating a word
| alentred wrote:
| This is one of the reasons I didn't like "The Toyota Way" book.
| I have read it after I have been exposed to the theory of
| constraints and some other knowledge about production
| organization, and I was turned off about all the "mystery".
|
| Same thing about meditation. Tried so many times and failed.
| Finally acquired the skill with a good self-hypnosis book.
| Appreciate the meditation/self-hypnosis ever after.
|
| In both cases, I think highly about these ideas and practices,
| be it "ikigai" or "a reason for being", "muda" or "eliminating
| bottlenecks", "meditation" or "trance". Each person has their
| own way to understand these and either is fine when it works,
| but the artificial mysticism is disappointing.
|
| ---
|
| Yet, it is interesting to observe that "ikigai" needs several
| words to be translated to English. I suppose it reflects the
| the importance of the concept in the culture. Like the 50
| eskimo words for snow.
| Cpoll wrote:
| > meditation/self-hypnosis
|
| That's an interesting comparison. What's the name of the
| book?
| soraminazuki wrote:
| If there was a massive push for "ikigai" either within Japan or
| outside of it, I totally missed it. To me, this looks one of
| those articles written by some random bureaucrat that no one
| really reads.
|
| Regarding the article, there are indeed many words and phrases
| that can't really be translated to English. I don't think
| "ikigai" is one of them, though. It's called a purpose.
| qrybam wrote:
| Amazing to see this. I just landed after a week in Japan where we
| discovered this word and instantly recognised how it applies to
| our team. Made heavy use of it when pitching to explain our
| passion for what we do.
| chengiz wrote:
| Do you know why people in Okinawa and Sardinia have great
| longevity? Is it Ikigai, or living simple village life, or eating
| maggot infested cheese? No, it's because of lack of record
| keeping, specifically families keeping people "alive" to collect
| pensions:
|
| https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704080v3
| nilawafer wrote:
| .
| chengiz wrote:
| "Recently been shown" by the paper I linked to.
| csallen wrote:
| Response from some blue zone demographers to the paper you
| linked: https://www.bluezones.com/news/are-supercentenarian-
| claims-b...
|
| It begins, "The pre-print is not new data, research, or a
| study. It is a theory - an opinion paper that the author has
| been unable to get published in any scientific journal or peer-
| reviewed publication. The original version of the paper was
| released as a pre-print in 2019 and still has not been properly
| published, meaning the theories have never passed any
| scientific peer review."
|
| And it continues with a point-by-point rebuttal.
|
| Worth taking a look at.
| chengiz wrote:
| Blue zones demographers from https://bluezones.com rebut
| research against blue zones? Color me convinced!
| csallen wrote:
| So your method of assessing the veracity of information has
| nothing to do with the information itself, but is entirely
| based upon who it's from?
| devoutsalsa wrote:
| It could be pension fraud!
|
| "Most Age Records are Pension Fraud, Scientist Says" =>
| https://youtu.be/VpwXswyt-zg?si=EyT1KpxA0JY7kk17
| asimpletune wrote:
| Nonetheless it's not uncommon to see 80 year olds riding bikes
| here in Italy.
| bitbasher wrote:
| Japan (historically high suicide rates), telling us how to live.
| I think I'll take my chances with another philosophy.
| dasil003 wrote:
| Maybe country-level culture is too coarse-grained to tell any
| individual what is right for them?
|
| (BTW, I get the irony of an American saying this, but I do say
| it sincerely)
| redwall_hp wrote:
| Stereotypically. In reality, it's middle of the pack in either
| 2000 or 2019 and lower than the US now.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r...
| dang wrote:
| Related. Others?
|
| _Ikigai: What We Got Wrong and How to Find Meaning in Life_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39777896 - March 2024 (83
| comments)
|
| _Photography and Ikigai_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31579522 - June 2022 (10
| comments)
|
| _Passion is self-centered crap. Find your Ikigai (2018)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20486393 - July 2019 (20
| comments)
|
| _Ikigai and Mortality (2008)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16248307 - Jan 2018 (1
| comment)
| kayo_20211030 wrote:
| I'm sure there are more. I recall tons of these posts, and am
| too lazy to search. It was, and I guess still is, a thing that
| people go back to over and over. I think it makes people feel
| good for no particular reason
| pezezin wrote:
| The Japanese word isekai refers to the desire to escape your
| miserable life and start from scratch in a new, better place /s
|
| Jokes aside, I live in Japan, and I wouldn't take them as the
| example of a happy, balanced society. Given the explosion of
| popularity of isekai animes in recent years, quite the opposite.
| agumonkey wrote:
| How to balance ikigai with society ? being averaged by groups and
| stuck in norms is probably the number one reason daily life is
| the opposite of ikigai.
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