[HN Gopher] Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to a Joyful Life
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Ikigai: The Japanese Secret to a Joyful Life
Author : craigkerstiens
Score : 46 points
Date : 2024-10-22 15:41 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.japan.go.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.japan.go.jp)
| huvarda wrote:
| This article kind of feels like a "place, Japan" type of article
| not going to lie. "There is no other word like this in any other
| language." Passion? Purpose?
| MarkSweep wrote:
| Looking at an Japanese to English dictionary:
|
| https://jisho.org/search/%E7%94%9F%E3%81%8D%E7%94%B2%E6%96%9...
|
| Besides the examples you mention, the French phrase "raison
| d'etre" is commonly used in English well.
| vunderba wrote:
| But summing up their "profound discovery" in a single sentence
| wouldn't give them the opportunity to write a 200 page
| bloviated soft-serve yogurt treatise on the guaranteed secrets
| to true happiness.
| asdasdsddd wrote:
| that's how i feel about umami (savoury) and kawaii (cute)
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| People using "umami" in English is a big pet peeve of mine.
| It's so damn pretentious. "Savory" covers the meaning more
| than adequately and has existed in the language for a long
| time. There's no reason for the foreign loan word except to
| try to sound super smart.
| dymk wrote:
| It's not the same flavor
| yen223 wrote:
| Umami refers to a specific flavour, savoury refers to a
| broad category of foods that are basically not sweet. You
| can have "savoury" meals that have no umami flavour.
| quesera wrote:
| Umami is a subset of savory.
|
| It's not pretentious (when used correctly), it's more
| precise.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| That is correct. I buy a liquid specifically labeled as
| 'Umami' that my family adds to vegetables, rice, etc.
| trinix912 wrote:
| It is an article on a Japanese Government website, of course
| they're going to promote themselves.
|
| Honestly, I find it weird to have this posted here. It's just a
| classic "Welcome to ____" site for attracting tourists.
| Minor49er wrote:
| "Vocation" is a synonym, though it is misrepresented by the
| Venn diagram at the bottom of the article
|
| Looking up "vocation" in modern dictionaries just says that
| it's a career, but that is wrong. The real meaning is a
| "calling", or: something that brings good to the world, that
| you can do, that you enjoy doing, and that sustains your
| livelihood
|
| I grew up around Lutheran communities who stressed what a gift
| a vocation is because it isn't something that most people can
| reach. But we shouldn't stop looking for ours
| volemo wrote:
| What is "the real meaning" of a word though?
| Minor49er wrote:
| The definition it is given by the group that actually uses
| it
| quesera wrote:
| Have you heard of "vocational schools"?
|
| That use of the term is no more "wrong" than yours --
| i.e. they are both correct and clear in context.
|
| I'm very aware of the Latin root.
| SatvikBeri wrote:
| From the excellent 1913 Webster's dictionary:
|
| Vo-ca'tion (vo-ka'shun), noun [L. vocatio a bidding,
| invitation, fr. vocare to call, fr. vox, vocis, voice: cf. F.
| vocation. See Vocal.]
|
| 1. A call; a summons; a citation; especially, a designation
| or appointment to a particular state, business, or
| profession.
|
| 2. Destined or appropriate employment; calling; occupation;
| trade; business; profession.
|
| 3. (Theol.) A calling by the will of God. Specifically: -
|
| (a) The bestowment of God's distinguishing grace upon a
| person or nation, by which that person or nation is put in
| the way of salvation; as, the vocation of the Jews under the
| old dispensation, and of the Gentiles under the gospel.
|
| (b) A call to special religious work, as to the ministry.
| yen223 wrote:
| A "calling" seems like a perfectly cromulent word for what's
| being talked about
| wnc3141 wrote:
| I went to a Lutheran school that did a mini camp for finding
| vocation.
|
| However when interacting the job market, I realized early on
| in my career that the modern economy leaves little room for
| exploring just that. Those I've observed bucking that trend I
| would more describe as "following their curiosity" - because
| usually, some good comes of it, even if you're not sure where
| it leads.
| fildevtronic wrote:
| You do realise that this is published by the Japanese
| government, right?
| wampwampwhat wrote:
| not to be confused with ikijime: The secret to tasty fish
| Minor49er wrote:
| "I want fugu!"
| isamuel wrote:
| At the end, there's one of the craziest Venn diagrams I've seen
| in a while. The diagram asserts that --- by definition --- you
| aren't good at your "mission," the world does not need your
| "profession," you can't be paid for your "passion," and you can't
| love your "vocation." Grim!
| kulahan wrote:
| That's not what it's trying to imply. It's saying that if you
| chose a job based on what the world needs and what you love
| doing, you're in the realm of completing a mission. Then you
| look at the diagram to see what you're missing to reach Ikigai.
| This is a very "glass half empty" look at a literal diagram
| lol.
| grisBeik wrote:
| There's this diagram, and there's David Graeber's book
| Bullshit Jobs.
|
| "What you love" and "What you are good at" certainly have a
| non-empty intersection, but that's mostly a distinct set from
| "what you can be paid for". "What you are good at" and "What
| you can be paid for" also have a non-empty intersection, but
| that set is again (mostly) distinct from "what you love". In
| brief, you can enjoy work, but then it will pay shit, or you
| can make money, but you'll hate it.
|
| The most interesting part however is the right hand side.
| "What you can be paid for" and "What the world needs" have a
| practically empty intersection. Regardless of both personal
| skill and drive, there is effectively zero money available
| for the sorest needs of society. (Public healthcare
| (including mental health), public education, public
| infrastructure, etc.)
|
| Nice diagram, but a pipe dream.
| iterance wrote:
| The obvious question to ask about this purported "pick two"
| triad is, _why must that be so?_
|
| - If one is good at their job, why does that imply that
| either they won't be paid well, or they'll hate it?
|
| - If one enjoys their job, why does that imply they must be
| paid poorly or suck at it?
|
| - If one is paid well, why does that imply they will be
| eaten alive by work or terrible at their job?
|
| The assertions such diagrams make just don't stand up to
| scrutiny when viewed in reverse. They should stand up to
| symmetry, and clearly do not; the veneer of logic is peeled
| away. Instead it reveals the underlying issue: they serve
| only to elucidate a cynical outlook.
|
| Perhaps in general, I'll admit, there is presently a
| shortage of opportunities working for the public good; but
| I'm reluctant to even give an inch on that because it lends
| itself to a cynical belief system about the world which the
| statement alone does not imply: it is not necessarily a
| true inference to say that, if there is a shortage, there
| will never be; or, that if one wants such a job, they will
| never be able to get it and best give up early.
|
| Don't let cynicism take you. It will take, and take, and
| take, and leave you only table scraps of joy.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| > The obvious question to ask about this purported "pick
| two" triad is, why must that be so?
|
| It is not a law of the universe, so the answer to your
| question is "it isn't necessarily". But even if it isn't
| always true, it's _usually_ true. And thus it 's a useful
| metric to keep in mind. Being lucky enough to get all
| three qualities in your job is rare, and you can't expect
| that it'll happen.
| aimor wrote:
| You're not reading it right. The labels overlap, they are not
| disjoint.
| quesera wrote:
| > _The diagram asserts that --- by definition --- you aren 't
| good at your "mission,"_
|
| This is a misreading of the Venn diagram. Ikigai is the only
| section where Passion, Mission, Profession, and Vocation all
| intersect. The "Passion" etc sections are not bounded to the
| 2-layer overlaps where the labels sit, they extend into the 3
| and 4-layer overlaps also.
|
| But I'll grant you that the Venn diagram is crazy and
| overpacked.
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Is this term actually used widely through Japanese culture or are
| they just riding the popularity train? E.g. if I'm in a "planning
| your future career" class in a high school in Japan, is the
| concept of ikigai going to come up?
| blargey wrote:
| It's a normal word/concept that everyone's familiar with.
|
| As for career planning, I don't think it's very relevant. The
| sorta-equivalent sayings like "do what you love and you'll
| never work a day in your life!" tend to be used in a way that
| puts existing preferences and interests first, and everything
| else as a consequence of it. The way I'd think of "ikigai" in a
| career context, the work being meaningful (as in the opposite
| of a "bullshit job") is what comes first. Since it's
| meaningful, it's something the world needs, so you can get paid
| for it. Since it's the opposite of a bullshit job, you're
| motivated to devote the time and effort and attention to
| be(come) good at it. A job well-done is satisfying. So I'd
| envision it as something you settle into, rather than plan
| ahead with your guidance counselor equivalent.
|
| It's also not necessarily a word specific to jobs/careers in
| the first place, and in a literal sense only means "I live for
| this" / "it's worth living for". The rest is a recent fixation
| by writers.
| anigbrowl wrote:
| No. It's just lifestyle marketing.
| sweeter wrote:
| have hobbies and goals and participate in community activities...
| I don't know how I feel about platitudes like this. On one hand,
| it is obviously true and doing this things will make you feel
| better... but at the same time I think most people already
| understand this and its not a matter of simply not knowing that
| this is a helpful thing to do.
| revorad wrote:
| This is an interesting take on the concept of Ikigai -
| https://www.lkazphoto.com/blog/photography-and-ikigai
| lobochrome wrote:
| Good old orientalism
| rjaknba wrote:
| This is a meaningless diagram that CEOs roll out when they want
| to make the point that everyone should focus more on business.
|
| It has the same value as the Gartner Magic Quadrant.
| androng wrote:
| >When we asked what their ikigai was, they gave us explicit
| answers, such as their friends, gardening, and art
|
| Correct me if I'm wrong but almost no one is paid for friends,
| gardening or art. And the definition of ikigai is "something you
| can be paid for". So this concept of ikigai essentially does not
| exist.
| addicted wrote:
| Based on the article alone, you seem to be getting that from
| the Venn diagram. But the Venn diagram doesn't attempt to
| define Ikigai. It's a tool to help one find their own ikigai.
|
| The definition of ikugai in the article does not include
| something you can be paid for.
| somethoughts wrote:
| My hot take is that the part that got lost in translation as it
| transitioned into a pithy airport bookstore business book is
| that it originally didn't have to be a single activity that
| covers all of the Venn diagram.
|
| It is more about making sure the union of the Venn diagram is
| covered by one or more daily activities. So hobbies are about
| ensuring that you are not just focusing on the vocation circle.
| mark_l_watson wrote:
| I read the book referenced in the article. Recommended!
|
| Simple but effective ideas. Similar in vibe to the book The Four
| Agreements.
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