[HN Gopher] Official Raspberry Pi NVMe SSD Review
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Official Raspberry Pi NVMe SSD Review
Author : geerlingguy
Score : 67 points
Date : 2024-10-24 19:52 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (bret.dk)
(TXT) w3m dump (bret.dk)
| teruakohatu wrote:
| > At this price point, it's easy enough to throw one in your
| basket when you're already spending a decent chunk of change and
| be done with it, safe in the knowledge that you have a well-
| performing boot device. I do still think it's a bit naff that the
| M.2 HAT+ doesn't fit in the official case but I won't re-open
| that can of worms.
|
| An rpi5 plus M.2 hat plus a branded ssd and you are well into the
| realm of Intel N100 SBC that don't need a hat, have a good GPU
| with encoding/decoding and a lot of CPU power. I really don't
| understand rpi anymore beyond the Zero, 2040 and CM range for
| commercial use.
| cosmotic wrote:
| Power consumption is a good contender for reasons to stick with
| rpis. The rough, quick search numbers I'm seeing for idle power
| are ~6w for the N100 SCB and ~1 to 2w for the pi. Max
| performance is like ~15w to ~4w.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| How often is that the case? Are you really saving so much
| more money with a 10W board vs a 15W system to offset the
| purchasing price?
| nine_k wrote:
| It's like 1.5x longer run time on battery power :shrug:
| brokenmachine wrote:
| Most things I see rpi being used for would be better done
| at 1/10 of the power with an ESP32, STM32 or arduino.
|
| The things that need an rpi and therefore must use power
| from the wall anyway, I always find myself thinking would
| be better done by a minipc, eg one using a laptop cpu
| like a 7730U.
|
| Costs more, but you get like 3-4x the speed at a similar
| power use, and have much more flexibility on what OS you
| can use because it's a "proper" PC.
|
| Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of rPi. I have a Pi
| Zero that I've used exactly once because I wanted to do
| something and I came across a project that did exactly
| what I needed that used rPi.
|
| I just find there's always a better option than rPi for
| every project I find myself doing.
| icelancer wrote:
| It's purely about battery runtime in these cases.
| nine_k wrote:
| Also, a bunch of GPIO if you want to control some hardware,
| not just run a Linux desktop or a media server.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| We are starting to see SBCs that bake in an RP2040 to drive
| some GPIO pins (without needing to tie up a physical usb
| port), which seems like a reasonable compromise... I do
| like the RPi Zero size/perf/price combo, but for anything
| that needs more horsepower it's hard to argue with the
| bigger NUC-a-likes.
| teruakohatu wrote:
| Yes there are N100 SBCs including a RP2040, so best of
| both worlds.
| sthlmb wrote:
| It's not quite as seamless though, sadly, it's just the
| same as having a Pico plugged in via USB but it's a good
| step, even if the X4 (assuming that's what we're
| referring to) has some other flaws!
| nxobject wrote:
| Especially when you want to work with PIO as well. Well,
| either way Raspberry Pi gets paid.
| gjsman-1000 wrote:
| Depends on where you live then. My home state of Minnesota
| has electricity for 11 cents per kWh, with only 19% coal.
|
| Very different than, say, Germany. Power efficiency becomes a
| much lower priority.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Wait, which raspberry pi are you talking about? Max
| performance on a rpi5 is closer to 20 watts technically, and
| a bit less than that usually because of thermals. But it's
| not 5 watts, at least nothing I've seen indicates that. The
| official rpi5 charger provides 5v5a, so 25 watts. And a lower
| power mode is used when a "standard" 15w charger is used.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > Max performance is like ~15w to ~4w.
|
| Peak power from the Raspberry Pi 5 is 12W, according to
| Raspberry Pi themselves:
| https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/introducing-raspberry-pi-5/
|
| The N100 SBCs have a much higher peak power and heat, but
| it's also fine to let them throttle down.
|
| Really though, I think most hobbyists would be perfectly fine
| with a base model 2GB RAM Raspberry Pi and a cheap USB to
| NVME enclosure. It's not optimal, but it works and you're not
| spending money to hot-rod something that will never be all
| that fast anyway.
| throwaway19972 wrote:
| While there is _some_ commercial /industrial use of RPi, that
| seems like an odd consideration when generally considering how
| they've positioned the brand. Meanwhile you can write and run
| very similar code across everything from the zero all the way
| up to the 5--which is enormous flexibility that x86 simply
| doesn't offer.
|
| Plus, my understanding is that the N100 still tends to have
| poor driver support issues that the Pi likely doesn't with such
| a large community.
| robotnikman wrote:
| >While there is some commercial/industrial use of RPi
|
| I thought the whole reason for the shortages the last few
| years was due to commercial applications buying out most of
| the Pi's available?
| MisterTea wrote:
| > Meanwhile you can write and run very similar code across
| everything from the zero all the way up to the 5--which is
| enormous flexibility that x86 simply doesn't offer.
|
| This doesn't make sense, can you elaborate?
| m463 wrote:
| I suspect you are describing a large part of consumer behavior.
|
| Someone gets a sporty-car, then starts working on the engine,
| the suspension, the exhaust, gets new rims and tire, new
| seats...
|
| and in the end they could have bought a porsche
|
| Thing is, it all depends on your use case.
|
| For the pi, it is lots better for hardware projects than a nuc
| style machine, via the gpios/csi/dsi. and specialized hats.
| There is also a huge community of forums/documentation/people
| to help you do new things, solve problems, get unstuck.
|
| But if you are doing linux PC kinds of things, like a nas or a
| media server, you need to do the math.
| erinnh wrote:
| Most hardware projects I tend to look at dont need the power
| of a Pi5 and are fine with a 2040 or zero.
|
| The niche of the Pi5 just has gotten so much smaller, imo.
| NovemberWhiskey wrote:
| I started down this thought path and ended up with a pair of
| reconditioned DL369 G9s.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Totally true. If you want a small server just get a N100.
|
| The pi makes sense for something where you need power (eg more
| than esp32 or 2040) and gpio. Not as a small server. Those days
| are gone.
| teamonkey wrote:
| I'd argue they were never a particularly good option as a
| server, especially a file server, because of their poor IO.
| You'd often get better performance by installing Linux on a
| NAS. Ironically the Pi5 is the only one that _is_ actually ok
| at being a file server. Pis are very good at being lots of
| other things though.
| shadowpho wrote:
| Yep rpi5 does not make sense anymore. N100 goes for $110 on
| sale with 512gb nvme/16gb of ram/psu/case all included. It
| completely roasts rpi5 while staying with x64 Linux.
| Koshkin wrote:
| One example:
| https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2024/07/radxa-x4-cheap-intel-n10...
| jamesu wrote:
| One issue I have with a lot of the N100 systems is there seems
| to be a lot of variants from different manufacturers, slightly
| different form factors, etc. The PI may be worse but at least
| you have a pretty good idea what you are actually getting most
| of the time.
| skrtskrt wrote:
| it's a known quantity with known good support for various
| things and a large community.
|
| People and particularly businesses want to buy something they
| know works, rather than trying to change and figure out new
| configuration nuances every time something with a slightly
| better looking spec sheet comes out.
| icelancer wrote:
| We've replaced most of our RPi units with the Beelink SER MAX 5
| or whatever at $300ish price point; just too good of a deal
| (and all of its hardware works with Linux, unlike some other
| MiniPCs).
|
| But we still use RPi4/5s when we want the ecosystem of the RPi,
| particularly around the GPIO stuff. Typical things include
| environment monitoring such as lighting and air quality - super
| simple plug-in devices that easily interface with Raspbian and
| the GPIO system.
|
| Power draw is much lower on the RPis which I think is relevant
| for some people; not really us. But that's a pretty valuable
| use case for those who are shipping battery-backed devices.
| starik36 wrote:
| It would be cool to have a nex gen RPi (perhaps even the Zero
| edition) that does away with the micro SD slot and replaces it
| with a built in NMVe one.
|
| In addition, replace most of the other ports (microUSB, etc...)
| with a number of USB-C ports.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Well, not an NVMe maybe (yet), but at least a built-in eMMC
| slot.
| bitwize wrote:
| eMMC is not a slot. It's a form of built-in storage. It
| conforms to the old MultiMediaCard interface... which was
| obsoleted by SD cards a LONG time ago. The eMMC variant is
| still used to cheaply bung in some usable flash storage into
| rinky-dink devices like thin clients, cellphones, and such.
| But for something like the Pi, if you want performance and
| reliability over SD cards you need a grown-up solution: NVMe
| or SATA SSD.
| Koshkin wrote:
| OK, "socket". (ODROID-N2+, for example, uses eMMC as a
| faster, better alternative to an SD card.)
|
| https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2-with-4gbyte-
| ram-2/
| jmholla wrote:
| Does anyone know if these will work with the PoE HATs?
| jsheard wrote:
| The official NVMe hat blocks access to the PoE header, but
| there are third party options that combine NVMe and PoE into
| one hat:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ceI0_r_Kg
|
| Alternatively you could get one of the NVMe boards that sits
| _under_ the Pi, and put a standard PoE hat on top.
| robjwells wrote:
| As an example of the latter, Pimoroni offer an NVMe "base"
| that would avoid this problem and leave the PoE header free:
| https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/nvme-
| base?variant=4121958...
| sthlmb wrote:
| The Pineboards PoE + NVMe HAT will be released next week and
| will allow you to have both, and some other 3rd party ones do
| the same. The official Pi M.2 HAT does block the PoE headers
| though sadly!
| Neywiny wrote:
| Back in college we used a Pi (not the latest gen because their
| code was out of date but whatever) and being a local with a car,
| I volunteered to get them for classmates who couldn't. This was
| back when you could really only buy them in person or pay a 3-4x
| markup. Anyway, the prof let us know we'd need a pi, card, maybe
| a case, and maybe a power supply. A lot of people just wanted
| everything so they didn't have to worry about it. I think most
| beginners don't want to deal with this stuff and don't care if
| it's a marked up Samsung drive or marked up whoever uSD card. And
| now that I'm in industry, I agree. I wouldn't use a Pi but first
| party accessories are usually worth it vs the debugging hours to
| find out you bought garbage.
| swijck wrote:
| Is supply chain still an issue or is it finally possible to buy a
| pi without making it like buying tickets to Taylor Swift?
| moffkalast wrote:
| Long solved, though some of the new stuff tends to be out of
| stock at launch for a bit at least.
|
| But it's still all produced in the UK and shipping + customs
| fees easily rack up another 30% so it's at least as expensive
| as tickets for Taylor Swift.
| thoughtpalette wrote:
| Looks pretty good per: https://rpilocator.com/?cat=PI5
| zamadatix wrote:
| Extremely available. E.g. pishop.us alone has 947 in stock to
| buy instantly.
| rixrax wrote:
| But what about the heat sinks / fan when you mount the m2 on top?
| Especially /w Pi 5, to get more perf out of it, it presumably
| should have a sizeable heat sink complete with the fan?
| distances wrote:
| The Active Cooler part (that contains a heatsink too) fits well
| under the HAT.
| jsheard wrote:
| The fan won't do much if there a second PCB stacked right on
| top of it though, unless there's cutouts for it.
| distances wrote:
| It does quite enough. Some test results are here:
| https://bret.dk/official-raspberry-pi-m-2-hat-
| review/#Temper...
|
| And for any moderate use cases the need for any cooler at
| all could be disputed. I bet most RPi use cases don't
| include heavy computing.
| zamadatix wrote:
| In what way is thermally throttling at 86.5 C quite
| enough cooling? "Active Cooler in Case with HAT" idles
| near the same temperature "Active Cooler" reaches under
| max, unthrottled, load.
| distances wrote:
| I think you misread the graph. "Active Cooler in Case
| with HAT" is pretty much the same temperature (74.8) as
| "Active Cooler" (no case, no hat, 70.6). None of the
| configurations with the cooler throttled.
| 0x073 wrote:
| A covered fan is not very clever and the rp5 need active
| cooling.
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| Using my Raspberry Pi 4, I find that interestingly enough, even
| just using the SD card slot on 1 GB of RAM, device usability is
| perfectly good.
|
| As soon as I need to use a web browser, performance goes out the
| window, and you're nearly stranded in terms of usability.
|
| I think that easily qualifies as "desktop usage," and it leaves
| this desire for a low resource consumption web browser.
| bitwize wrote:
| This is why I install netsurf on all my Pis. "But bitwize," you
| say, "netsurf doesn't support JavaScript!" To which I reply,
| "Oh no! Anyway..."
| JohnBooty wrote:
| desire for a low resource consumption web browser.
|
| What we really want is low resource consumption web content,
| right?
|
| When you pull up the browser's debugger and look at what a
| "modern" mainstream web page/app needs to deal with... you can
| see there's little hope for a low power device. Megabytes upon
| megabytes of obfuscated javascript, from multiple sources,
| nearly all of it needing decompression and decryption.
| Using my Raspberry Pi 4
|
| The Raspberry Pi 5 (8GB) I recently got is actually very close
| to tolerable for web browsing and running VSCode.
|
| (I realize VSCode is kind of a pig. I'm just kind of
| experimenting to see what might be viable)
|
| I run Firefox with uBlock, which seems to help somewhat. Total
| RAM usage with FF and VSCode according to htop is close to 4GB
| so I suspect that your 1GB Pi is running into swap once you
| start tooling around the interwebs with a web browser.
|
| Upgrading from an A1 SD card to a A2 SD seems to make something
| of a palpable difference in "desktop usability." Certainly the
| benchmark scores for the A2 card blow the A1 away.
|
| I've only had the Pi for a few weeks so I haven't experimented
| with more aggressive web optimization stuff, like switching my
| user-agent to request mobile versions or running a Pi-hole,
| etc. I'm also running at 4K native, so.... changing that
| certainly might help too....
| postpawl wrote:
| The official Pi 5 NVME hat doesn't work with the active cooler
| and doesn't fit full sized SSDs. I think the Pimoroni NVMe Base
| is a better choice since it doesn't have those issues.
| sunshine-o wrote:
| The problem of Raspberry Pi today is they need to be relevant as
| a cheap innovation platform in the AI space.
|
| They would need to do with AI what they did 10 years ago in the
| IoT and self-hosting space.
|
| I have no idea if their recently AI Camera or Hailo based AI HAT
| is. But my guess is they would need to offer something good
| enough for a fraction of the price of a Nvidia Jetson.
| nsteel wrote:
| > it's a bit naff that the M.2 HAT+ doesn't fit in the official
| case
|
| Pineboard have a hat that fits in the official case. Only PS9.
|
| https://thepihut.com/products/hatdrive-nano-for-raspberry-pi...
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