[HN Gopher] How I Got a Digital Nomad Visa for Japan
___________________________________________________________________
How I Got a Digital Nomad Visa for Japan
Author : pwim
Score : 192 points
Date : 2024-10-21 02:07 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.tokyodev.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.tokyodev.com)
| fxtentacle wrote:
| There's also the option of spending around $35k to purchase a
| Japanese business and use that to get an investor visa.
| Klonoar wrote:
| There's a world of difference in the level of effort between
| this and the digital nomad visa.
| hardwaresofton wrote:
| And a world of difference in stability and perception. If you
| have $35k+ to dedicate to this (and note that it does not
| _cost_ $35k, these are more like initial capital
| requirements), you should 100% go the investor route.
|
| People underweight how amazing it is to be able to pay less
| than $50k for the equivalent of a golden visa to a top 5 GDP
| nation that is well regarded, safe, has some opportunity and
| is generally easy to live in.
| csomar wrote:
| The golden visas usually have no strings attached. I am not
| sure about this particular visa but last time I checked
| Japan they demand that you have a certain amount of
| activity on the company to keep your residence.
| Klonoar wrote:
| Eh, I ran a business in Japan and have had that visa. I
| still tell most people who just want to dip their feet in
| that the digital nomad visa is totally fine and a good way
| to go.
|
| That stability and perception only matters if you _truly_
| want to live here, and quite a number of people spend ~3
| months here [1] and realize that it's got issues past the
| honeymoon period (like anywhere else). There's also no
| reason you can't change your visa type if you find you
| actually like it after the DN trip.
|
| [1] "here" because I'm back in Japan for a few weeks for
| friends at the moment, but you get the idea
| gwervc wrote:
| Yes, you run the company. IIRC the visa is about
| management not investment and the company is expected to
| be profitable for the visa to be renewed. That's quite a
| different bunch of requirements than just buying a visa
| and sleeping on it.
| internet101010 wrote:
| While this is purely anecdotal, the friends I have that
| ended up bailing earlier than planned got _really_
| annoyed by nonsensical things like ATMs having operating
| hours and having to use a fax machine to do something.
| They probably weren 't the main problem but more straw
| that broke the camel's back.
| n_ary wrote:
| Not sure if you are aware, but you described Germany as
| well. ;)
| dpeckett wrote:
| Lord almighty, at-least the ATM machines here don't have
| opening hour restrictions.
|
| Though ... https://www.ft.com/content/2778b6c4-4be7-4f38-
| acee-78f38feca...
| estebank wrote:
| Well, I _do_ describe Japan as "Kawaii Germany".
| themaninthedark wrote:
| The ATM working hours can be annoying but honestly I
| understand the reasoning, it's to prevent drunk guys from
| being taken advantage of or threatened into making
| withdraws.
|
| Other than those who have built up Japan as a magical
| place in their head and are inevitably disappointed that
| it fails to match, I think that the reason that people
| end up bailing out of any country is one where they are
| unable to adapt to a culture and it's nuances.
|
| Most people would get annoyed when you have to take a
| document to city hall, get it stamped at one desk thane
| take it 5 desks over for the stamp there as well. Or you
| can try and understand why their workflow may be this
| way. Or just not care.
|
| If you are the kind of person who gets annoyed, then you
| will end up leaving.
| afavour wrote:
| They're just totally different scenarios. Someone looking
| at a digital _nomad_ visa isn't looking to stay somewhere
| in the long term.
| abound wrote:
| But the actual article is about someone trying to live in
| Japan, the Digital Nomad visa was just seemingly their
| best option.
| lmz wrote:
| They were _trying out_ living in Japan. "I needed more
| time to judge whether I should take the leap to move
| there or not."
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| > People underweight how amazing it is to be able to pay
| less than $50k for the equivalent of a golden visa to a top
| 5 GDP nation that is well regarded, safe, has some
| opportunity and is generally easy to live in.
|
| The Japanese are incredibly racist and xenophobic. Numerous
| businesses outright place signs barring foreigners
| (particularly russians, chinese, etc)
|
| Japanese citizens are almost always completely trusted by
| police over anyone, say, white or black. So Japanese who
| want to fuck with someone will bait them into a
| confrontation (or just outright lie) so they're arrested -
| and Japan has a nearly 100% conviction rate, with the worst
| prison conditions in the developed world.
| therein wrote:
| I am glad they prioritize and look out for their own.
| That's how it should be. Not everywhere needs to be in
| love with globalism. And yes, I would say the same should
| be the case in other places as well.
| franciscop wrote:
| Some of those assertions are true, some half true, and
| some are twisting the truth so much that I'd like to note
| (been living here for 7+ years):
|
| - The Japanese are incredibly racist and xenophobic
|
| Half true, some Japanese are those, but not all and
| "incredibly" is stretching it a lot (also, it's not good
| to generalize a negative trait to a whole country, I
| wonder what that's called). There's also famously a lot
| of "positive racism" towards Westerners.
|
| - Numerous businesses outright place signs barring
| foreigners
|
| There's been a handful of places in a country with 120M
| people, and each and every one of those has made the
| news, exactly because of how rare they are!
|
| - Japanese citizens are almost always completely trusted
| by police over anyone, say, white or black.
|
| Sure, this is true.
|
| - So Japanese who want to fuck with someone will bait
| them into a confrontation (or just outright lie) so
| they're arrested.
|
| While I don't have any number against it, this feels like
| such an incredibly bizarre event that I'd like to ask for
| some sources since it sounds very unbelievable given my
| personal experiences.
|
| - Japan has a nearly 100% conviction rate
|
| Absolutely not true in that this statement is grossly
| misconstruing a narrative of "arrested => 100%
| convicted". ONCE the police decide to pursue a matter,
| then it's true, but they only do so with incredibly
| strong evidence. See wikipedias' notes: "If measured in
| the same way, the United States' federal conviction rate
| would be 99.8%."
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate#Japan
|
| - With the worst prison conditions in the developed world
|
| Fairly true, if we consider only the handful of countries
| that can be called "the developed world".
| wk_end wrote:
| This is heavily tilted.
|
| The Japanese conviction rate is high, but this is largely
| in part because the authorities are extremely reluctant
| to try cases unless they have a slam-dunk case. See https
| ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_justice_system_of_Jap..
| . Scholars say the biggest reason for
| Japan's very high conviction rate is the country's
| low prosecution rate and the way Japan calculates its
| conviction rate is different from other countries.
| According to them, Japanese prosecutors only
| pursue cases that are likely to result in convictions,
| and not many others. According to Professor Ryo
| Ogiso of Chuo University, prosecutors defer
| prosecution in 60% of the cases they receive, and
| conclude the remaining 30% or so of cases in
| summary trials. This summary trial is a trial
| procedure in which cases involving a fine of 1,000,000
| yen or less are examined on the basis of documents
| submitted by the public prosecutor without a formal
| trial if there is no objection from the suspect. Only
| about 8% of cases are actually prosecuted, and
| this low prosecution rate is the reason for Japan's
| high conviction rate.
|
| Also worth noting that, when evaluated equally, the US
| justice system has a similarly high rate:
| According to Bruce Aronson of New York University School
| of Law, Japan's conviction rate is misleading
| because it is the rate at which defendants admit guilt in
| the cases they are charged with. According to him,
| if the method of calculating the conviction rate in Japan
| is applied to the United States, the conviction
| rate of federal defendants in the United States in
| 2018 was also over 99%. According to him, when there is a
| discussion about Japan, it is easy to misunderstand
| because people quickly rely on broad cultural
| generalizations and stereotypes.
|
| None of which is to say that there aren't serious
| problems with the Japanese justice system (or the US one,
| for that matter).
| Pooge wrote:
| Used to live in Japan for more than a year. Heard about this visa
| a few weeks ago while traveling to said country.
|
| Since they don't give you a residence card, I wonder how easy it
| would be to get a phone number and bank account. If some
| government officials didn't get information on this visa, how can
| we expect companies to have? They will look at your passport with
| dead eyes and think you are fooling them with a fake stamp.
|
| I'm very interested in applying for that visa, but not being in
| the Japanese system (e.g. no health insurance, no residence card)
| is kind of putting me off because that spells more administrative
| nonsense.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| >Since they don't give you a residence card
|
| They don't? Then what use is the visa? You _cannot_ live here
| without a residence card. As a non-citizen, you 're actually
| _legally required_ to carry your residence card with you
| whenever you 're in public, and present it to a police officer
| upon request.
|
| Something doesn't seem right here.
|
| Edit: apparently you _can_ live here, without a residence card,
| in a temporary apartment, for up to 6 months with this visa.
| Just be sure to carry your passport everywhere you go.
| tjpnz wrote:
| Technically you would be expected to bring your passport
| everywhere you go.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| That's for foreign tourists who have a visa stamp in their
| passport. So I guess for these digital nomads, that would
| work too, as long as they don't overstay whatever date is
| on that visa.
|
| It's not going to help them find a place to live though:
| they'll be stuck in hotels the entire time they're here.
| lIl-IIIl wrote:
| The author was able to get an apartment and shared the
| website and the reddit thread be used to find it.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| I see now. Looking at the site, those kinds of apartments
| are called "monthly mansions"; I stayed in one when I
| first came here before I could find a real apartment.
| These places are very small, and furnished, so perfect
| for someone only staying 3 or 6 months. But they're quite
| expensive for what you get. But if you're only staying 6
| months, it's perfect.
| Klonoar wrote:
| > they'll be stuck in hotels the entire time they're
| here.
|
| Eh, Tokyo has plenty of monthly apartment rentals that
| are effectively corporate rentals that you can do without
| a residence card.
|
| (I used to do this before having an actual visa there)
|
| It's functionally better than a hotel, insofar as it
| doesn't read or act as one.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| True, and it generally has better amenities than a hotel
| too: a kitchen (though tiny), fridge, microwave, stove
| (no oven though), clothes washer, maybe a vacuum, etc.
| Also importantly, a mailbox, so you can receive
| deliveries (and in newer places, there's an automated
| delivery box system).
| tayo42 wrote:
| > stove (no oven though)
|
| Maybe I'm misremembering but I thought that was typical
| for Japanese homes?
| themaninthedark wrote:
| They have ovens...just super tiny and meant for fish only
| https://www.yamada-denkiweb.com/category/202/006/001/
| flemhans wrote:
| Rented a flat in Tokyo for a month too as a tourist. But
| it wasn't cheap. Around $1500/month, in 2011. But it was
| 3 rooms, and very nice. So maybe not so bad, actually?
| But then again, it was many years ago.
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| 3 rooms, in Tokyo, for a month, is bloody cheap unless I
| miss something.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Pretty much all non-luxury housing in Tokyo is built to a
| much lower standard than equivalent housing built in say
| Canada or the US in the same time period.
|
| Much thinner wall insulation, single glazed windows
| (until recently), much smaller elevators in high rises,
| etc...
|
| So on a quality and square footage adjusted basis it's
| still quite expensive.
| Twisol wrote:
| My _studio apartment_ in California is $1500 /month. At
| the same price, I would be in a 3-room Tokyo flat
| yesterday!
| fragmede wrote:
| And that's on the cheaper end of California!
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| I just left an apartment in Shanghai that was two
| bedrooms, a bathroom, and a kitchen for $700 / month. I
| was advised that prices have come down over the last
| year, so that if I was planning to renew my lease I
| should negotiate a lower price.
| soperj wrote:
| Studio in BC for over $2500 a month.
| CPLX wrote:
| That is comically cheap.
| digging wrote:
| I feel like everyone is missing "in 2011".
| csomar wrote:
| Tip: a photo of your passport and the stamp will most
| likely do in most circumstances. Much better than risking
| taking your passport with you all the time.
| Pooge wrote:
| Bad advice. Photos are not accepted and police will
| expect you to carry your passport at all times, just as
| you're supposed to carry your residence card at all times
| if you have one.
| csomar wrote:
| Not sure why people want to stick to a rule that could
| get them in real trouble. I am speaking from real
| experience. The police is very unlikely to want to
| arrest/take you to the station for not having your
| passport. On the other hand, if you _do_ lose your
| passport and you have a slow /far embassy then you are in
| real trouble.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| The police will stop you for any random reason, including
| walking alone in the street at an unusual hour or just to
| check your bike.
|
| From there, if you have nothing to officially prove your
| identity you might totally spend a while at the station,
| and potentially have them kindly escort you to your home
| so they get a look while you're looking for your
| passport.
|
| All of this is just mild inconvenience, except it will
| happen a lot more frequently than losing one's passport.
|
| PS: For the real trouble relative to passports, an
| embassy can reemit an emergency passport within a day,
| and you can probably reemit the visa at an immigration
| branch. It's not fun for sure, but I'm not sure it's real
| troubles.
| quacksilver wrote:
| I carry a locally notarized photocopy of my passport in a
| similar country. I am not sure if it is fully legal, but
| people tend to do that here in practice, particularly
| when the government office needs your passport for
| processing.
|
| The court was willing to stamp and sign that I have that
| passport and it matches me, so it is probably good enough
| for most police if I offer to show them the original at
| home.
| dagw wrote:
| I cannot think of any circumstances where someone would
| be demanding to see your passport and then accept a photo
| of your passport instead.
|
| That being said having a photo of your passport and
| relevant stamps is good advice, but only to make it
| slightly easier to deal with all the hassel that comes if
| you do lose your passport.
| csomar wrote:
| > I cannot think of any circumstances where someone would
| be demanding to see your passport and then accept a photo
| of your passport instead.
|
| Unless you are involved with a particular interaction,
| they just want to check your visa status. A passport
| photo/stamp will do if their system is digitized.
| Arresting someone (except for the US where the police
| _likes_ to arrest people) is a major hassle.
| tumult wrote:
| I am a resident of Japan. This is extremely bad advice.
| Do not follow this advice.
|
| To csomar: you are willingly spreading harmful advice.
| Stop it. Stop making people reply to clean up your mess.
| jacoblambda wrote:
| In most countries you can get what is called a notarized
| or certified "true copy" of identifying documents
| (passports being one of them). The intent is for you to
| submit them with applications so you don't have to submit
| the original copy. Now how you get a true copy depends on
| the country. Canadian passports for example can only have
| true copies made by their embassy or immigrations
| offices.
|
| Note that this doesn't include your passport stamp pages
| but Japan hasn't issued passport stamps for several years
| now and they just look up your passport in a registry
| instead. So for that purpose, a true copy should be
| effectively the same thing.
|
| That's where it comes down to what is essentially a
| technicality but given they carry an embossed seal and
| signature with the words "TRUE COPY" on them, they look
| very official and officials are very rarely going to push
| back on it even if whether they are to be treated as a
| full substitute for a passport (for identification
| purposes) is technically a grey area.
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| Getting a credit card as a long term resident alone is hard.
| Getting a phone number can be troublesome for some people fresh
| off the boat. One longstanding issue has been people who come
| to Japan expecting to settle down, then quickly realize it's
| not for them and take a flight home without telling anybody.
| Debts left unpaid and landlords not even contacted.
|
| People who come here with the intention of milking some cash
| and living in a "cheap" country have even less reason to be
| loyal to it. The consequence will be companies being even
| stricter, but parasites like AirBnB and similar companies
| making a killing off offering apartments 5x above normal asking
| price to rich nomads who will say "wow, it's so cheap!" without
| realizing they're being ripped off, and killing neighborhoods
| by driving rent prices up. Owners of multiple homes stand to
| gain, but typical companies have been doing the math for a long
| time and see nothing but losses. The general sentiment by
| locals towards this policy has been "So we're really becoming
| like Vietnam and Thailand, huh?", so the vast majority of
| people will not be welcoming nomads with open arms, or at all.
| There's already massive controversy over new apartments being
| bought up by foreign investors and locals being pushed farther
| out of Tokyo.
|
| People can downvote because they don't like hearing this. But
| it's the state of things here. It's a system forced against the
| citizens against their will. In a country with a noted history
| of centuries of distrust of foreigners, this visa scheme is not
| helping.
| tjpnz wrote:
| It's quite common for apartment blocks to forbid "holiday"
| rentals. Mine has visible signage about this in the lobby and
| the building manager also looks out for it. Your typical
| apartment owner has zero interest in all the trouble these
| arrangements bring.
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| They do. But lots of people buy homes just to rent them
| out. That removes a home from the market, and the
| competition pushes prices up.
|
| The problem isn't signage.
|
| Plus evicting/canceling a contract is an arduous process.
| It almost always favors the renter. And in the case of
| actually buying a home, there isn't much anyone can do.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| That's for regular apartments. The blog author went to a
| monthly mansion, which _are_ used for holiday rentals and
| other short-duration stays of a few months or so (such as
| people moving to a new city and needing a place before they
| can find a permanent apartment, or maybe people on
| temporary work assignments in a new city).
| esperent wrote:
| > One longstanding issue has been people who come to Japan
| expecting to settle down, then quickly realize it's not for
| them and take a flight home without telling anybody. Debts
| left unpaid and landlords not even contacted
|
| This really sounds like one of those not-quite-racist
| "problems with foreigners" that every country likes to
| pretend they have. Every "knows" it's a problem, there's no
| way to prove it right or wrong, but hey, it gives people
| something to complain about.
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| It might be racism. But those thoughts aren't going to be
| undone with visas for rich nomads/tourists who'll stay for
| 6 months and dip. It's only accelerating justification for
| racism amongst locals.
|
| And lumping any sort of economic concerns a country has
| into racism, then considering it something that shouldn't
| even be talked about because it's "racism", is how these
| issues start to snowball fast and more extreme racist
| reactions grow. A few European countries have taken hard
| right swings because people who said anything about
| immigration policies were shut down as racists. Now people
| don't even care about being called racist because the word
| is normalized. And that's a dangerous path to have started
| treading down. Japan is a country where being said to have
| some prejudice isn't something people will shamefully back
| away from; things could snowball much faster than in
| Europe.
| BoringTimesGang wrote:
| It's not a 'Japan thing'. I pay a higher rate on my
| mortgage because my spouse was not a citizen of where we
| live when we took it out. There are fewer providers willing
| to offer mortgages in this situation but, presumably,
| there's still enough of a price incentive that the premium
| isn't pulled out of thin air.
|
| It's also common for landlords to ask for higher deposits
| or months paid up-front.
| esperent wrote:
| It's also possible that the banks have less legal
| requirements to non-citizens so they make up a bullshit
| reason for charging you higher. Which is _absolutely_
| something a bank would do.
| nicbou wrote:
| It's exactly the same in Germany. It's not that the system
| is designed against foreigners, but that it's not designed
| for them at all. It's a sort of "Falsehoods states believe
| about people" situation . This leads to a lot of Catch-22
| situations where you need A to get B and B to get A, and
| the only way to fix it is to go through expensive
| loopholes.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| > but parasites like AirBnB and similar companies making a
| killing off offering apartments 5x above normal asking price
| to rich nomads who will say "wow, it's so cheap!" without
| realizing they're being ripped off, and killing neighborhoods
| by driving rent prices up.
|
| The parasites in this case are the landlords, not AirBnB. And
| they're the one driving the rent prices up, not the renters.
|
| Why does everybody refuse to adress the elephant in the room?
| Because they have parents and uncles who live by exploiting
| young workers for rent, and don't want to hurt their
| feelings?
| diggan wrote:
| > The parasites in this case are the landlords, not AirBnB.
| And they're the one driving the rent prices up, not the
| renters.
|
| What about considering both as parasites, just different
| methods for achieving basically the same thing: "More money
| for me".
|
| Obviously, the landlords are the ones who raise the prices.
| But I think it'd be ignoring reality if you didn't consider
| the fact that AirBnb made all of this so much easier and
| simpler from the landlords. There are platforms that let
| you sync to many portals, and even see what weeks you
| should raise the prices to optimize for as much profit as
| possible. AirBnb and the other platforms are contributing
| to a constant, collaborative raise of prices.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| AirBnB plays a very minor role in this. Yes, they make
| short-term rentals possible for landlords who are too
| dumb and lazy to be able to do it otherwise. There were
| other simliar platforms before AirBnB, there will be
| others after them.
| rty32 wrote:
| That's why the original post says "like Airbnb", and laws
| like those in NYC ban all of them.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| What does that have to do with my comment? The blame is
| squarely on the landlords, blaming AirBnB or other
| similar websites is just because people can't deal with
| the fact that the persons harming them are nearby. So
| they need an outside force to put the blame on.
|
| Good on NYC to ban short term rentals of residential
| properties. Short term visitors should stay in buildings
| especially made for that purpose, such as hotels.
| tjpnz wrote:
| You won't be getting a phone number or bank account without
| one. You might also have problems getting prescriptions filled.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| In my experience, you need more than a residence card to get
| a bank account here: you also need a certificate of
| employment from your employer.
| tjpnz wrote:
| Shinsei sorted me out without one. But wouldn't surprise me
| for any of the "respectable" banks.
| creakingstairs wrote:
| Getting a bank account via SMBC Olive was a painless
| experience for me. It can all be done an app and a phone
| call later confirming some details. I was not employed at
| the time.
| gwervc wrote:
| No you just need your residence card, fill a form, sign (no
| hanko required) and you can open a bank account at the Post
| Bank. At least that's how it went 10 years ago as a
| student. It's easier to open an account as a foreigner
| there than opening an account as a citizen in France... (no
| appointment bullshit, no proof of residency asked)
| Pooge wrote:
| This is still how it goes.
|
| I became a client of Sony Bank (yes, _that_ Sony) but
| they would accepted "financial resident of Japan" which
| means people that have either 1) a work contract or 2)
| lived for 6 months in Japan.
|
| It absolutely blows my mind why Japan Post is the only
| one to not have those restrictions.
| rootsudo wrote:
| Pretty hard, there are some services like sakura sim card and
| another that just uses your passport, but the rates/services
| are pretty meh. But it is a softbank sim card, a JP number
| (thay may not be used for line verification sometimes) and the
| lowest priority data - meaning if you're in shibuya or
| shinjuku, sometimes you have no signal.
| morpheuskafka wrote:
| There's at least one company (Mobal) that will give you a
| "real" (not VoIP prefix) phone number with a passport as a
| tourist, so that would work for DN too. The data part of their
| eSIM wasn't great but the voice part worked fine when I tried
| it.
|
| If you need health care it would definitely be a hassle at
| least if you don't have a lot of spare cash--you'd have to see
| if the mandatory travel insurance you purchased has some sort
| of direct payment arrangement with selected clinics. But it
| shouldn't be any issue to just receive the service and pay the
| full cash price, again same as a tourist.
|
| The real issue is going to be a bank account, which would
| primarily be needed if you tried to rent a "regular" apartment.
| The best workaround might be to see if the owner would take
| cash, up front if needed. You'd be within the "treated as
| nonresident" period at first anyway, so it would already be
| hard to get an account even with a residence card. If you don't
| need it for rent/utilities (ex. share house that takes online
| payments, hotel/airbnb, etc.) then you probably wouldn't want
| the hassle of opening and closing a local bank account anyway.
| carlosjobim wrote:
| Can't you do international wires to Japanese bank accounts
| for paying rent?
| quacksilver wrote:
| Look for 'Nomad travel insurance' and see if it fits your
| individual needs for health insurance
|
| I use one called safetywing, though thankfully have never had
| to claim and don't know if they are better or worse than
| their competitors. (posted as an example and not a
| recommendation or endorsement)
| _rm wrote:
| What's the difference between this and just visit twice on a
| tourist visa?
| gentile wrote:
| It's mentioned in the article, the US embassy advises against
| unauthorized employment.
| https://jp.usembassy.gov/services/visas-japan-u-s-citizens/
| _rm wrote:
| It also avoids differentiating on two very different
| scenarios: coming to Japan without a work visa to work
| illegally for a local company, and doing work for an employer
| or client not in Japan while being in Japan.
|
| On paper, all laws are strict. In practice, some of them, and
| some interpretations of them, are considered a higher
| priority than others (which can range to straight up ignoring
| them or even violating them themselves).
|
| The point I'm making is I don't get why they've bothered with
| such a pointless visa, and it sounds like some PR stunt. If
| it extended to a year or was a residence permit then it'd be
| an actual valuable visa worth the effort.
|
| The only thing I can think of is maybe they hoped it'd be
| used by digital nomads to come work for local companies for 6
| months, but that doesn't sound likely. PR gimmick or "we're
| doing things" purpose more likely.
| laurieg wrote:
| Is you are on a tourist visa then you cannot work. Actively
| working as a nomad ok a tourist visa waiver is breaking the
| law.
|
| Of course, nomads often did come and with in this status. They
| would exist in a grey area, arguing their with was more
| incidental in nature and bit the reason to be in Japan (just
| like replying to a few with emails while in holiday).
|
| The nomad visa is essentially formalizing this grey area. As
| other commentors have mentioned, it's not a particularly useful
| status as you don't get a residence card and you can enroll in
| national health insurance too. You'll also find it harder to
| find apartments to rent too
| _rm wrote:
| Right so it's a compliance thing.
|
| Rather than just visiting on a tourist visa and relying on
| the fact that no immigration officer is going to come bust in
| your hotel door and yell "hey are you doing work on that
| laptop!", you go through a bunch of tedious bureaucratic
| hoops to get the assurance that _they definitely for certain_
| won 't come inspect what you're doing on your laptop.
| djtango wrote:
| People are being too individualistic here - Japan or any
| other country is never going to go after individuals who
| happen to work for remote companies or freelance while they
| globe trot working on tourist visas.
|
| But when companies like Shopify go fully remote, if they
| suddenly have a lot of employees who are frequenting Japan,
| they are painting a giant target on their back and exposing
| themselves to legal risk. A company is never going to
| expose themselves to this kind of legal risk so HR will
| very quickly (and understandably) clamp down on this. This
| is why even the most progressive "work from anywhere"
| policies tend to have fine print that amounts to "your
| country of residence and any home countries you can legally
| work in". This is then why we often see "remote" coming
| with all kinds of conditions like US remote or EU remote
| etc because the reality of legal compliance for HR is a
| huge headache.
|
| These nomad visas are a baby step in the right direction
| towards unburdening companies from this liability.
| notpushkin wrote:
| > This is then why we often see "remote" coming with all
| kinds of conditions like US remote or EU remote etc
| because the reality of legal compliance for HR is a huge
| headache.
|
| Could they just hire those individuals as contractors
| instead? It should be up to the contractor to ensure
| compliance then. (IANAL)
| djtango wrote:
| Some do but from observation lawyers/HR find reasons to
| resist this.
|
| The most likely explanation is there could be risk but
| there is zero risk associated with saying no so legal and
| HR say no to this arrangement because they don't want
| more work and legal and HR are cost centres so they can't
| magically pull budget out of thin air to appease some
| annoying digital nomads. A company is also not going to
| let their entire workforce of full time employees
| transition to contractors overnight either, which would
| be a giant headache for both HR and senior management.
|
| For example VCs prefer "headcount" over contractors for a
| number of reasons so there is pressure from the top to
| incentivise full time employees. Large multinationals
| have a lot of considerations around taxation (its always
| taxes...)
|
| These are some of the practicalities I've uncovered that
| provide inertia towards remote working
| notpushkin wrote:
| Makes sense, thanks!
|
| > A company is also not going to let their entire
| workforce of full time employees transition to
| contractors overnight either
|
| This could actually look like tax evasion (in countries
| with lower taxes for sole proprietors / self-employed
| people), so not a great idea in any case.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Well whole contractor status is very murky in many
| places. Either very strict like in UK. Or then you need
| all sorts of agreements in between, meaning that you
| might need to give cut to some third company. And then
| those companies have same problems.
|
| Even inside EU with freedom of movement spending more
| than 180 days in single country can lead to tax
| implications. Doing this globally is even bigger mess as
| ways of counting time might not be the same.
| notpushkin wrote:
| > Or then you need all sorts of agreements in between,
| meaning that you might need to give cut to some third
| company. And then those companies have same problems.
|
| It could be a viable solution actually. There's a bunch
| of companies that can both employ or subcontract a person
| on behalf of another company.
|
| I think if the company is not against it in principle, it
| becomes just another negotiation point, e.g. you can
| agree to a lower net salary so that the gross amount the
| company has to pay is the same (including the middleman
| fee).
| michaelt wrote:
| First of all, that's complicated and employees can easily
| fuck it up.
|
| I once worked at a tiny company, and their first
| 'contractor' employee didn't realise he had to set aside
| money for certain taxes, and didn't realise he'd have to
| record certain details to be able to fill out certain
| forms, and things like that.
|
| This ended up being a bunch of hassle for the company as
| he... thought? hoped? expected? that they were paying
| those taxes, as they would have done if he was a regular
| employee. Now the guy's resentful, feels you've ripped
| him off, and is constantly distracted.
|
| Secondly, there can still be local laws you have to
| comply with. Some countries have problems with sham
| contractor arrangements, where they insist their normal,
| regular employees are 'self-employed contractors' to
| avoid giving them sick pay, holiday, pension, maternity
| leave, minimum wage, redundancy pay, complying with
| safety rules, and so on. So they have laws saying that
| under certain circumstances, contractors effectively turn
| into regular employees.
|
| As I can't read Kazakh, how am I supposed to know if the
| Kazakhstani tax code has similar rules?
| naniwaduni wrote:
| Also, while they're unlikely to spend resources toward
| going after individuals who happen to work remotely on a
| tourist visa, it's comparatively trivial to pull people
| out _at entry_ (and that 's going to be a regular and
| well-documented occurrence because the alternative of
| overstaying your visa is absolutely something countries
| with governments tend to care about).
| djtango wrote:
| What circumstance are you referring to with "at entry"?
| jonasdegendt wrote:
| Leaving and coming back on a new tourist visa within a
| short time frame, as opposed to just overstaying your
| initial tourist visa in the first place.
| GardenLetter27 wrote:
| There are cases of this being enforced against
| individuals in the USA and UK after posting on social
| media though.
| ghaff wrote:
| I have to assume that's pretty rare but I probably
| wouldn't post that I'm working remotely or use a co-
| working space.
| d13 wrote:
| No one will ever know or care if you're working remotely
| while in Japan on a tourist visa. Just AirBnB and get
| ordinary travel insurance.
|
| For a paltry 6 months this nomad visa seems like a massive
| amount of paperwork for no benefit.
| lIl-IIIl wrote:
| Apparently they do, from the article quoting the US
| Embassy:
|
| Japanese Immigration officials are aware of the pattern of
| people staying for 80-90 days as "tourists," spending a few
| days in Korea, Guam or some other nearby area and then
| seeking to re-enter Japan for another 90 days. Persons with
| such a travel pattern can expect to face questions at
| Japanese Immigration and may be denied entry with the
| suspicion that they have been or will work illegally in
| Japan. In that Japanese Immigration records are
| computerized, a "lost" passport does not serve to mask long
| stays in Japan.
| notpushkin wrote:
| I think it's mostly for the visa runs, not the woking per
| se. (I would still not recommend it, especially not if
| you are planning on getting a permanent residence status
| later on.)
| csunbird wrote:
| Well, EU prevents this kind of workaround by restricting
| stays to 90 days within 180 days period, so leaving EU
| for a couple of days after a stay of 90 days and coming
| back to stay another 90 days won't work, you will go over
| your quota.
| bamboozled wrote:
| Imagine if they just had a sane immigration policy
| instead ?
| yunohn wrote:
| Well, the USA and EU are also equally (if not more) strict
| about not working on tourist or business visas. You have to
| get a work visa.
| Klonoar wrote:
| There is technically a "hidden" six month tourist visa if
| you can show you have a significant amount of money in your
| bank account. In practice all it does is save you an
| entry/exit.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| Who do you show the significant amount of money to and
| how?
| hiatus wrote:
| This page appears to have more information:
|
| https://www.mofa.go.jp/ca/fna/page22e_000738.html
|
| The amount seems to be 30 million yen or just under
| $200k.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| What is the definition of work?
|
| If you mainly passively own a business in a different
| country, is that work?
|
| If you mainly passively manage your portfolio of foreign
| assets, is that work?
| hiatus wrote:
| Seems like a question better directed to the relevant
| country's authorities.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| Isn't Japan an expensive country?
| notpushkin wrote:
| It is a mixed bag: apartments can be pretty expensive,
| especially in Greater Tokyo area. Food is pretty cheap IMO.
| Taxis are prohibitively expensive, but railroad system is
| really really good and compensates for that pretty well.
|
| But people don't go to Japan because it's cheap - it's just a
| really nice place to live for some.
| shiroiushi wrote:
| Apartments even in Tokyo are still quite cheap compared to
| today's rents in major American cities, and not needing to
| own a car also cuts living expenses massively compared to
| living in the US.
|
| Someone coming from a German city with good public transit
| might not think it's that cheap though. But a lot of digital
| nomads are Americans.
| dagw wrote:
| _apartments can be pretty expensive_
|
| Poking around sites online it was quite easy to find
| apartments fairly centrally in Tokyo for $1000-1300/month if
| you were staying for 3-6 months. While that is far from
| cheap, I certainly wouldn't call it expensive in the grand
| scheme of major international cities.
| rwmj wrote:
| My relatives built a house in Tokyo which was absurdly cheap
| (PS300K), but maybe I'm just used to London prices. As you
| get out of the major cities, akiyas can be basically "free",
| although will require a huge amount of time and effort to
| make habitable again.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I don't know what you are comparing against, but taxis are
| not expensive, though I wouldn't call them cheap either.
| famahar wrote:
| Apartments are way cheaper compared to other major US cities.
| They're probably smaller though but the convenience makes up
| for it. You can also find something as low as $300 in Tokyo
| if you are fine with a very long commute to the station. I
| used to have a sharehouse apartment in Shibuya for $600.
| Shared kitchen, bathroom and shower. It was pretty good
| considering I didn't spend much time at home other than to
| sleep.
| csomar wrote:
| Depends on how much space you need to live. If you are fine
| with very little space, Japan is actually pretty affordable.
| Cheap food is good/health. Public transport is cheap and
| good/great. Lots of activities to kill time for cheap. Not sure
| about health care though.
| cedws wrote:
| I visited Tokyo from London recently and found it to be much
| cheaper. A decent meal is half, or less than half of what you
| would pay here, not to mention healthier. Another comment
| mentioned taxis are expensive, but I found the opposite, my
| journey was cheaper than it would have been in London, and the
| drivers are much more professional. As for apartments, you can
| live much cheaper and more centrally (~PS1500 is the minimum
| you need to play with if you want to live in central London.)
| Public transport is also cheaper, faster, and more reliable.
|
| So yeah, on the whole, Tokyo is like half the cost of London
| and you get more for your money.
|
| https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...
| Ylpertnodi wrote:
| Serious question, and not being flippant: crine in .jp vs
| .uk? Noticeable?
| warmcompress wrote:
| Answering your comment seriously, with an appropriate level
| of flippancy:
|
| On the Tokyo metro this year I saw many advertisements for
| hair issues; lots of ads with balding noggins, contrasted
| with thick gorgeous heads of hair that you can acquire by
| making an appointment through a (naturally!) Japanese
| domain. In London, meanwhile, I saw zero ads for any hair-
| related products or services on the tube. Though if there
| were, I would imagine most would be advertised with a UK
| TLD.
| triceratops wrote:
| Japan is absurdly safe and law-abiding, even by developed
| country standards.
|
| They're 12th on this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li
| st_of_countries_by_intention...
|
| The top 10 are mostly microstates or Pacific Island
| nations.
| cedws wrote:
| I had never felt so safe while I was there. I knew I didn't
| have to check over my shoulder, or walk down a side road if
| I wanted to use my phone so as to avoid having it grabbed
| from my hands. When I rented a bike, I could simply park it
| up without a lock, and knew I would come back to see it
| exactly where I left it. I forgot my bag in a taxi and got
| it back the next morning by going to the taxi office. I
| left my umbrella on a chair and came back to see it exactly
| where I left it.
|
| It's how living in a civilised, first world country should
| be.
| imp0cat wrote:
| > walk down a side road if I wanted to use my phone so as
| to avoid having it grabbed from my hands.
|
| Is this really a thing in London?
| cedws wrote:
| Yes, phone theft is rampant in London. The thieves are
| rarely caught and if they are, they get off lightly. Or
| released early from prison, because our prisons are full.
| xenospn wrote:
| Japanese salaries are very low (compared to the US). So if
| you're coming from North America, local prices combined with
| exchange rates make it super affordable.
| Klonoar wrote:
| OP is not getting paid in yen, so frankly it doesn't matter.
| The Yen's abysmal at the moment.
| bamboozled wrote:
| If you come with USD you basically double your money the
| moment. Its yen has crashed.
| cedws wrote:
| Hoping to apply for this visa soon without too many issues. I
| know people just go and work remotely on tourist visas but I'd
| rather not take the risk, especially as I want to use coworking
| spaces.
|
| It's unfortunate that the visa is only 6 months and not
| extendable, but if I really end up liking Japan maybe I'll go to
| language school so I can stay for longer.
| neillyons wrote:
| You can also get a Japanese Working Holiday Visa which allows you
| to work in Japan and stay for a year. https://yoyogi.io/en/how-
| to-get-a-japanese-working-holiday-v...
| jotaen wrote:
| That was covered in the article, but as the author was already
| older than 30 years, it wouldn't have been applicable for them.
| It also seems the Working Holiday visa is intended for
| "employment as an incidental activity of their holidays for the
| purpose of supplementing their travel funds" [1], whereas the
| author rather appeared to be looking for a "working full-time
| with some incidental holidays alongside" situation.
|
| [1]: https://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/w_holiday/index.html
| kmeisthax wrote:
| Also, Working Holiday is a reciprocal visa category and the
| US doesn't have an equivalent visa, so Americans can't get
| Japanese Working Holiday visas.
|
| Now, if it was called Working _Vacation_...
| Klonoar wrote:
| (Americans can't)
|
| Otherwise yes
| grecy wrote:
| > _My first thought was to work remotely and use the 90 days
| permitted by the tourist visa. Yet working in Japan on this visa
| is a gray zone at best and a practice I would stay away from. In
| fact, the US Embassy in Japan strictly advises against this_
|
| I've always wondered why countries care about this. If I'm
| employed in my home country, earning money there and paying
| taxes, what difference does it make if I happen to sit in another
| country?
|
| Or if I save up 6 months of PTO, then go to another country for
| those six months. I'm very much earning money and paying tax in
| my home country. Why is it ok for me to open my laptop and spend
| 10 hours a day on random stuff, but not "work stuff"?
| arandomusername wrote:
| > what difference does it make if I happen to sit in another
| country?
|
| Because you're breaking the law in that country and your
| country is actually trying to be help you not do that.
| returningfory2 wrote:
| But why is the law this way? Why not permit it?
| elzbardico wrote:
| Those laws where designed before you had the relativelly
| new phenomenon of digital nomads.
|
| They were created so the local companies wouldn't hire
| foreign citizens under the table, skirting taxes and
| depressing wages for local workers, which would be an
| unpopular outcome amongst voters.
| grecy wrote:
| Working for a local company is an entirely different
| thing, and not what I'm asking about at all.
| arandomusername wrote:
| Because the laws were created before the idea of working
| remotely.
| triceratops wrote:
| > go to another country for those six months
|
| > paying tax in my home country
|
| Don't you think you've answered your own question?
| wdrw wrote:
| This makes no sense... consider these scenarios:
|
| A) You work for a US company, earn money from the US company,
| pay income taxes in the US, live and spend money (and thus
| sales taxes) in the US
|
| B) You work for a US company, earn money from the US company,
| pay income taxes in the US, but live and spend money (and
| thus sales taxes) in Japan
|
| Clearly (B) is better for Japan economically? I think these
| laws are mostly enforced out of inertia and not any rational
| reason.
| triceratops wrote:
| > Clearly (B) is better for Japan economically?
|
| Scenario B is amazing for the US. I don't see how it's
| clearly better for Japan. I don't know about you but I pay
| far more in income tax than sales tax. You spend money but
| you also consume government services and infrastructure
| while paying less in tax to Japan than a resident employed
| in Japan would.
| wdrw wrote:
| But in scenario (B) you're spending money in Japan,
| basically you're directly injecting US money (your US
| salary) into the Japanese economy. Don't see why it's
| "amazing" for the US and not for Japan.
| triceratops wrote:
| > Don't see why it's "amazing" for the US
|
| Because you're paying US income taxes while consuming
| next to no US government services or infrastructure.
|
| > But in scenario (B) you're spending money in Japan
|
| Anyone who lives and works in Japan spends money in
| Japan. What's great about that? Most of those people also
| pay taxes.
|
| > basically you're directly injecting US money (your US
| salary) into the Japanese economy
|
| Japan might say: if this US company doesn't mind someone
| working from Japan and paying them an American salary,
| why not a person who already lives there and pays taxes
| there? That's obviously better than someone new who
| doesn't pay taxes there.
| hotspot_one wrote:
| > If I'm employed in my home country, earning money there and
| paying taxes, what difference does it make if I happen to sit
| in another country?
|
| Why does "home country" have tax priority over "sitting in"
| country? How does that make sense vs having the taxes paid in
| "sitting in" country instead of "home country"?
|
| with perhaps the strongest argument being jurisdiction. What
| gives "home country" the legal right to claim taxes on income
| earned in "sitting country"?
|
| and that's where things get complicated. In order to pay taxes
| in "sitting country" you need a "sitting tax ID number" and
| other admin, also if the taxes involve wage withholding, who
| does the withholding and ensures compliance, etc, etc.
|
| How does this align, in the US, with state-level taxes? If you
| were born in MN and moved to FL, do you pay MN or FL state
| income taxes (noting that FL does not have state income tax)?
|
| Is "home country" the state with the home office of the company
| which employs you, or the state you live in? Should employees
| of a California company pay California state income tax even
| when working remote from Texas (another no income tax state)?
| Or the classic Washington/Oregon divide?
| chrisfosterelli wrote:
| > with perhaps the strongest argument being jurisdiction.
| What gives "home country" the legal right to claim taxes on
| income earned in "sitting country"?
|
| Usually a treaty. At least here in Canada the government has
| tax treaties with most other countries whereby both countries
| agree the citizen should pay taxes to the country they reside
| in the majority of the year.
| junar wrote:
| The relevant portion of the US-Japan treaty is Article
| 14(2). As the IRS explains:
|
| > Paragraph 2 sets forth an exception to the general rule
| in paragraph 1 that employment income may be taxed in the
| Contracting State where the employment is exercised. Under
| paragraph 2, the Contracting State where the employment is
| exercised may not tax the income from the employment if
| three conditions are satisfied: (1) the individual is
| present in the other Contracting State for a period or
| periods not exceeding 183 days in any 12-month period that
| begins or ends during the relevant (i.e., the year in which
| the services are performed) calendar year; (2) the
| remuneration is paid by, or on behalf of, an employer who
| is not a resident of that other Contracting State; and (3)
| the remuneration is not borne by a permanent establishment
| that the employer has in that other Contracting State. In
| order for the remuneration to be exempt from tax in the
| source State, all three conditions must be satisfied. This
| exception is identical to that set forth in the U.S. and
| OECD Models.
|
| https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/japante04.pdf
|
| https://www.mof.go.jp/tax_policy/summary/international/tax_
| c...
| chrisfosterelli wrote:
| > I've always wondered why countries care about this. If I'm
| employed in my home country, earning money there and paying
| taxes, what difference does it make if I happen to sit in
| another country?
|
| Based on the practical enforcement I get the feeling that most
| countries don't really care about this, but this situation
| started happening much faster than visa law changes. Hence the
| grey area.
| digging wrote:
| When you put it that way, the answer seems obvious. You're not
| paying taxes to the country you're residing in. You're not
| paying taxes for the infrastructure you're using.
|
| Why is it ok for pure tourism? Because tourism is expected to
| be shorter-term, and you're likely to be putting more money
| into the local economy as a tourist.
|
| So they need to register this at the very least. I don't know
| if they tax digital nomad work but they do obviously want to
| have some control over it.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| Well, they probably want to double-tax your wages[0]. But
| that's why the digital nomad visa class was established.
|
| But the real explanation is mostly just that it's how the law
| was written. _In general_ , laws are brokered agreements
| between those who are currently in power, so they have no
| principles. More specifically, when countries[1] started
| implementing categories-and-quotas based immigration control,
| they decided leisure travel should have its own category, and
| wrote a restrictive definition of a tourist into the law.
|
| It's important to remember that at the time these laws were
| written, _remote workers didn 't exist_. If you were entering a
| country and doing work, it was going to be for a local
| business, and that visa category had far more restrictive visas
| intended to privilege native workers over foreign in the labor
| market. Ergo, the tourism visa _has_ to exclude any work at
| all. This separation was carried forward into the various
| reciprocal[2] visa-free travel arrangements that made it so you
| don 't have to physically go to an embassy and file paperwork
| to get a tourist visa.
|
| Of course, all of this is silly in the Internet age, but good
| luck convincing every country in the world to allow worldwide
| labor rights.
|
| [0] Fun fact: the US taxes based on citizenship, not residency,
| so you will _always_ be double-taxed as a US emigrant, even if
| you 're not remotely working for a US company.
|
| [1] I realize Japan is probably a bad example for this
| discussion, because they used to be completely closed to both
| immigration _and emigration_ for over a century. This policy
| even has a name: "sakoku". In contrast, America used to have
| an extremely racialized immigration policy, which is what was
| replaced with the (deracialized) categories and quotas. Before
| _that_ policy, we actually had a really liberal immigration
| policy.
|
| [2] COVID-19 notwithstanding
| lovegrenoble wrote:
| Lucky you )
| synergy20 wrote:
| with US passport I can stay in Japan for 90 days without a visa,
| if I want to work occasionally remotely for jobs at US part time,
| do I still need go through all the paperwork to get a Nomad visa?
| what's the purpose of Nomad visa when everyone has a laptop and
| can work remotely if they want to?
| maltyr wrote:
| The article addresses this.
|
| > My first thought was to work remotely and use the 90 days
| permitted by the tourist visa. Yet working in Japan on this
| visa is a gray zone at best and a practice I would stay away
| from. In fact, the US Embassy in Japan strictly advises against
| this:
|
| > Persons found working illegally are subject to arrest and
| deportation.
|
| > Persons believed to be entering Japan without a working visa
| but who intend to work here can be denied entry into Japan.
| This means that you will not exit the airport and will be
| required to return directly to the U.S.
| synergy20 wrote:
| Did more quick reading, Nomad visa gives you 6 month(tourist
| is 90 days), as long as you don't take local jobs you're
| fine, and there is no need to pay tax to Japan as well. now
| it seems just like a visa double the duration of tourist visa
| to me.
| VincentEvans wrote:
| Right, "working illegally" here means taking local jobs,
| not working for your own employer located in a foreign
| country.
| shintoist wrote:
| If you read the article the author does quote the US embassy in
| Japan strictly advising against this and that you risk arrest
| and deportation, that immigration officials do crack down on
| digital nomads, especially re-entering Japan to renew 90 day
| tourist visas to work.
|
| A lot of countries have laws against working remotely without a
| visa, although apart from the US few actively enforce them.
| CharlieDigital wrote:
| Seems like the restriction would only make sense in the
| context of working for a Japanese company. Similar to US
| visas for visitors where the traveler cannot visit the US for
| work purposes with a US-based employer.
|
| Otherwise, opening a work laptop and answering some work
| emails for your foreign employer would be risky.
| VincentEvans wrote:
| Precisely this - countries protecting their job markets
| against foreigners working illegally (not paying taxes,
| undercutting wages, etc).
|
| This has nothing to do with you working for your own
| foreign employer while on vacation.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| >> what's the purpose of Nomad visa when everyone has a laptop
| and can work remotely if they want to?
|
| Because you are working in a country, consuming its services,
| but not paying the local income tax. A work permit either
| officially ops you out of this or allows you to properly
| file/pay taxes.
|
| And fyi to Americans reading this: you still owe taxes to the
| IRS for work done overseas. There are all sorts of deductions
| and such, but only if you actually file. Not filing in either
| country could see you owe a huge amount to both, even if that
| means paying more than 100% tax. Don't risk it.
| andy_ppp wrote:
| When the girlfriend was living in Japan I stayed for 89 days and
| then went to Taiwan (amazing country, highly recommended) and
| came back for another 87 days and nobody cared. I guess if you
| did this a lot it would be an issue but you're reasonably fine to
| do it once I think. I was not working but I did have "free"
| accommodation in the smallest apartment I've ever been in so I'd
| be more concerned about this if I was actually breaking the rules
| and didn't have a reason to be there.
| jonatron wrote:
| "You are only allowed to stay as a "Temporary Visitor" for a
| total of 180 days during a 12-month period." Similarly, the EU
| has a 90/180 day rule, so it doesn't work long term.
| eftychis wrote:
| As the sibling comment noted, you were within the legal
| prescribed boundaries. The flag is automatic if something is
| off. No person (I think/in general/most countries) sits and
| counts days. The computer does.
|
| In fact if they note they can not track exactly how many days
| you were in and out of the country that is a separate flag,
| that would likely in most jurisdiction lead to questioning.
|
| (Source: friend had to pull his tickets and explain his travel
| path, when following unusual route via Schengen in between his
| entry/exit.)
| alibarber wrote:
| Currently in the countries of the Schengen area - a person is
| supposed to do preciesly that at border control, the
| electronic entry-exit system, targeted for launch in 2022 is
| (was) supposed to be that computer however.
| unkeen wrote:
| Can someone please explain to me why it is called "Visa" in some
| languages and "Visum" in others? My understanding is that "visum"
| means "that which has been seen" in Latin. What does "visa" mean
| then?
| jlaurend wrote:
| They're both forms (perfect passive particle in particular) of
| the latin verb "video". So they both mean "having been seen".
| The difference is in gender. visa = feminine; visum = neuter;
| visus = masculine.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > My understanding is that "visum" means "that which has been
| seen" in Latin. What does "visa" mean then?
|
| Basically the same thing, from the same root verb "videre";
| visum is "that which has been seen" (noun), visa is "which has
| been seen" (adjective), from which English and some other
| languages have derived a noun "visa" as a shortening of the
| modern Latin "charta visa" ("paper/document which has been
| seen") possibly through a french intermediary before English
| (different sources I've seen disagree on this.)
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