[HN Gopher] Everything I built with Claude Artifacts this week
___________________________________________________________________
Everything I built with Claude Artifacts this week
Author : recvonline
Score : 156 points
Date : 2024-10-23 20:52 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (simonwillison.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (simonwillison.net)
| swah wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41904595
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41913378
|
| Not sure why no discussion at all - maybe the design is
| underwhelming.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Maybe because we're all exhausted by these kinds of demos. I'll
| be interested in AI when I can integrate it with a large
| codebase and it provides any benefit. I'm happy for you that
| you can stand up little toy apps that pull down an NPM library
| and call it, but it's not useful in my professional life.
| mattnewton wrote:
| If you have one of those larger codebases you aren't afraid
| of Cursor Co. getting a copy of, I would really try out
| Cursor. The indexing of medium sized mono-repo I've been
| working in is pretty flawless (contains code for a static web
| page, a singe page web app, and some python services along
| with deployment configs)
| stonethrowaway wrote:
| That doesn't sound like a medium sized repo?
| mvdtnz wrote:
| There's absolutely no way I'd share my codebase with some
| fly-by-nighter ~crypto~ AI company, but the codebase I work
| on is upwards of 60 million lines of code so I doubt any
| "AI" solution would come close to being useful.
| ben_w wrote:
| At 60 Mloc? Sure, for now I'd agree. An AI needs to use
| other tools to handle that kind of size, it doesn't
| (practically) work so well if you try to hold the whole
| thing in context.
|
| And while tool use is being worked on, the results I've
| seen are are the "that's an interesting tech demo" level
| rather than the mind-blowing change when InstructGPT
| demonstrated the ability for a language model to generate
| any meaningful code at all from natural language
| instruction.
| riku_iki wrote:
| > I work on is upwards of 60 million lines of code so I
| doubt any "AI" solution would come close to being useful.
|
| that's what rag is supposed to solve: they chunk your 60M
| loc, and then retrieve and process only relevant
| depending on your inquery.
| sigh_again wrote:
| That's not a medium sized repo, that is a baby you can
| entirely memorize in your own head. Cursor is also dreadful
| at anything that isn't Javascript and Python.
| bloopernova wrote:
| Exactly. When the LLM can create valid tests that cover all
| branches, then it will be useful to me.
|
| I use copilot every day, but it's only so good.
|
| The LLM hype feels like it's been driven by FOMO.
| jkaptur wrote:
| I had a pretty cool experience with that the other day. I
| wrote some production code (LLM had no idea what was going
| on), then I measured the coverage and determined a test
| case that would increase it (again, just using my brain),
| BUT when I typed "testEmptyString" or whatever, the LLM
| filled in the rest of the test. Not a massive change to the
| way I work, but it certainly saved me a bunch of time.
| NitpickLawyer wrote:
| I swear half the people in this thread have spent 5
| minutes with the first chatgpt, pre 3.5, wrote it off and
| are so convinced of their superiority that they won't
| spend the time required to even see where it's at.
|
| Ever saw someone _really bad_ at googling? It 's the
| exact same thing with LLMs (for now). They're not magic
| crystal balls, and they certainly can't read everyone's
| minds at the same time. But give them a bunch of context,
| and they'll surprise you.
| unshavedyak wrote:
| I dunno, i think it's really cool still and i barely use it
| because i find it more work to use than to not.
| written-beyond wrote:
| Same. I've felt any LLM for coding has saved me
| mechanical time, but as of now anything slightly more
| complex than that just makes me waste more time figuring
| stuff out.
|
| Other than the automation aspect, it is a pretty good
| alternative to in-depth googling.
| williamcotton wrote:
| My duties as a data scientist and forensic investigator
| involve writing lots of "little toy apps" for ETL and
| analysis.
|
| BTW, why the disparaging reference to "little toy apps"?
| mvdtnz wrote:
| How would you refer to the example apps in the OP's link?
| They are almost definitionally toy apps, and definitely
| little (a handful of pages of code including all of the
| HTML).
| skydhash wrote:
| It's related to this: https://xkcd.com/1205/
|
| As a programmer (which is the requisite to build such tools
| even with LLMs), I have a plethora of tools to do the
| tasks, what I choose and how much time I invested in in
| that depends on something similar to this chart, but with
| an added dimension: interest.
|
| Take for example the URL extraction. For one single
| occasion, I'd probably use VIM and macros to quickly do it.
| If it were many pages, I'd write a script. If it were
| infrequent, but recurrent, I'd take the time to write a
| better script and would only write a web page if the use
| case was shared with other people or if I wanted a cross
| platform solution.
|
| I believe the first question one should ask before building
| is why. That leads you to find a better UX than shoehorning
| everything inside a web app.
| sigh_again wrote:
| >BTW, why the disparaging reference to "little toy apps"?
|
| It's an unmaintainable, single use piece of software (that
| doesn't even implement the features, it just glues together
| already existing code) that any CS student could write in a
| week. Congrats on getting a really fast CS student I guess
| ? Not to mention the fact that perfectly viable, better
| alternatives are available in many places.
|
| It's like me nailing two 2x4s together to make a shelf.
| Yeah, sure, I made it myself and I didn't need any
| woodworking knowledge, but let's just hope I don't put
| grandma's heavy china on it.
| IggleSniggle wrote:
| As a professional 2x4 nailer and gluer, I assure you that
| I have a ton more deliverables for my client. The
| downside is that now I actually have to put some thought
| into my work; you know, put some engineering work into
| it.
|
| The upside is that I can produce a shit-ton of one-shot
| code in record time, so I've got time to face the
| downside.
| infoseek12 wrote:
| It's extraordinary!
|
| Perhaps how quickly we become jaded should be taken as evidence
| of how quickly the world is changing right now.
|
| When I looked at the examples they seemed like the kind of one
| off scripts, of limited complexity, that we've seen many times
| in the last year or so.
| yen223 wrote:
| To have discussions people need to be able to see your post,
| and on HN it can be a matter of luck.
| rtzand wrote:
| Perhaps people want to read other blogs once in a while. We are
| at a stage of AI glut. If people pump out so much content in
| such a short time, no one can read it all (or is interested to
| read it).
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| It's just not a big deal.
| M4v3R wrote:
| It's funny how we went from "it's impossible for a computer to
| write meaningful code by itself" to "yawn, another one of these"
| in like 2 years.
| tomrod wrote:
| It's still not great at complexity. Though autocompletion does
| have some cool outputs.
| thierrydamiba wrote:
| Runtime complexity or complex as in difficult problems?
| onion2k wrote:
| _It 's still not great at complexity._
|
| That's a feature, not a bug. Complexity is something to
| avoid.
| 7thpower wrote:
| Sometimes great products require bugs, I guess.
|
| Being able to tackle complex tasks is still a real
| challenge for the current models and approaches and not all
| problems can be solved with elegant solutions.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| How would you suggest writing something like.... say...
| Photoshop or Chrome, without introducing any complexity?
| How about an optimising compiler or better yet something
| behind the firewall like a medical imaging device or
| financial trading software?
|
| Complexity is inherent in many problem spaces.
| curtisblaine wrote:
| _unnecessary_ completely is something to avoid. Inherent
| complexity is something to embrace. We 're trained to
| remove unnecessary complexity so much that sometimes we
| think we can remove all complexity. That's a fallacy.
| Sometimes, things are just complex.
| leptons wrote:
| Copilot knows what I want to console.log almost before I do.
| I like that aspect of it. It also gets it wrong sometimes,
| which is kind of dumb, especially when I just copied the
| variable name to my clipboard. It should know.
| HaZeust wrote:
| I said this last year[1] and still FIRMLY believe it:
|
| "It's even crazier to me that we've just... Accepted it, and
| are in the process of taking it for granted. This type of
| technology was a moonshot 2 years ago, and many experts didn't
| expect it in the lifetimes of ANYONE here - and who knew the
| answer was increasing transformers and iterating attention?
|
| And golly, there are a LOT of nay-sayers of the industry. I've
| even heard some folks on podcasts and forums saying this will
| be as short-lived and as meaningless as NFTs. NFTs couldn't re-
| write my entire Python codebase into Go, NFTs weren't ever
| close to passing the bar or MCAT. This stuff is crazy!"
|
| 1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37879730
| iwontberude wrote:
| Nay-sayers are taking it for granted because it's not what
| the they expected or wanted. It's not some flippant inability
| to have gratitude. Since you brought it up, when JFK said we
| would put a man on the moon by the end of the decade, the
| expectation was succinct and understood. There has been so
| much goal post moving and hand waving that we aren't talking
| about the same expectations anymore.
| HaZeust wrote:
| Well, that's too bad - isn't it? The world will sometimes
| change before your very eyes, and you'll sometimes be in a
| group that's affected at the forefront. C'est la vie -
| never become too comfortable that you stifle your ability
| to be an early adopter!
| SubiculumCode wrote:
| I am not a professional coder, being in research I do not
| need to think about scaling my code as most of it is one and
| done on whatever problem I am working on at the moment. For
| me, this is a lot about stringing a bunch of neuroimaging
| tools together to transform data in ways I want, LLMs have
| been fantastic. Instead of spending 20 minutes coding it, its
| often 0-shot visit to Claude...especially when its a
| relatively simple python task e.g. iterate through
| directories of images, inspect these json, move those files
| over here, build this job, submit. Its not ground breaking
| code, but the LLM builds it faster than I would, and it does
| what I need it to do. Its been a 20x or more multiplier for
| me when it comes to one aspect of my work.
| cloogshicer wrote:
| > NFTs couldn't re-write my entire Python codebase into Go
|
| Neither can LLMs. They can produce output that _looks_ like a
| plausible re-write of your codebase, but on closer inspection
| turns out to have many minor and major errors everywhere.
|
| The problem is that the closer inspection part is very often
| more work than writing the code by hand in the first place.
|
| There hasn't been enough evidence for me that this will be
| possible to fix.
| HaZeust wrote:
| I've used GPT-4 to do what I had said. I pasted the errors
| I was given, and did so for 2-3 more iterations, and it
| successfully ported critical in-house infrastructure from
| Python 3 to Go.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| you're never going to convince people that are in an
| ideological battle against AI.
| bigstrat2003 wrote:
| And you're never going to convince anyone if you assume
| without evidence that they are ideologically opposed to
| AI. Lots of people have tried these tools with an open
| mind and found them to not be useful, you need to address
| those criticisms rather than using a dismissive insult.
| HaZeust wrote:
| What evidence would you like?
|
| You're posting on a thread that hyperlinks to a list of
| code and Claude Artifacts for pet-projects that can make
| thousands a month with some low-effort PPC and an AdWords
| embed, and some mid-size projects that can be anything
| from grounds to a promotion at a programming role - to
| the MVP for a PMF-stage startup.
|
| What, specifically, would pivot your pre-conceived
| notions?
| epolanski wrote:
| Issue is, it takes time to learn how to interact with
| these tools and get the best out of them. And they get
| better quite fast.
| sergiotapia wrote:
| you are replying to a submission with a dozen or more
| examples of real tangible stuff, and you still argue?
| pointless.
| VirusNewbie wrote:
| But how do you know those were the only errors?
| HaZeust wrote:
| What's this question even mean? Because they're the only
| ones that came up in the debugger portion of the IDE, the
| output serves the intended purposes, the logging and
| error handling that I wanted to include were in the
| initial write-up prompt, and I could read the code it
| wrote because I partially knew the outputted language -
| and when I wasn't sure of a line, I asked it for
| clarification and a source from a reputable knowledgebase
| of the language, and GPT provided it?
| lionkor wrote:
| It can autocomplete, it can't write good code. For me, that
| goal post has not moved. It it cant write good code
| consistently, I don't care for it all that much. It remains a
| cool autocomplete
| HaZeust wrote:
| Tell it to write code like a Senior developer for your
| respective language, to "write the answer in full with no
| omissions or code substitutions", tell it you'll tip based
| on performance, and write more intimate and detailed specs
| for your requests.
|
| Since mid 2023, I've yet to have an issue
| mrbungie wrote:
| What I would expect is a lot of "non-idiomatic" Go code
| from LLMs (but eventually functional code iff the LLM is
| driven by a competent developer), as it appears scripting
| languages like Python, SQL, Shell, etc are their forte.
|
| My experience with Python and Cursor could've been better
| though. For example when making ORM classes (boilerplate
| code by definition) for sqlalchemy, in one of the
| filesthe assistant proposed a change that included a new
| instantiation of a declarative base, practically dividing
| the table/class metadata in two. I had to stop for at
| least 20 minutes to find out where the problem was as the
| change was hidden in one of the files. Those are the kind
| of weird bugs I've seen LLMs commit in non-trivial
| applications, stupid 'n small but hard to find.
|
| But what do I know really. I consider myself an skeptic,
| but LLMs continue to a amuse everyday.
| lelandfe wrote:
| My friend who can't code is now the resident "programmer"
| on his team. He just uses ChatGPT behind the scenes. That
| writ large is going to make us tech people all care, one
| way or another :/
| leptons wrote:
| I'll care when I get to consult for that company to fix
| all the messed up code that kid hacked together.
| epolanski wrote:
| Nobody really cares about code being good or bad, it's not
| prose.
|
| What matters is it meets functional and non functional
| requirements.
|
| One of my juniors wrote his first app two years ago fully
| with chatgpt, could figure out by iteratively asking it how
| to improve it and solve the bugs.
|
| Then he learned to code properly fascinated by the
| experience. But the fact remains, he shipped an application
| that did something for someone while many never did even
| though they had a degree and a black belt in pointless leet
| code quizzes.
|
| I'm fully convinced that very soon big tech or a startup
| will come up with a programming language meant to sit at
| the intersection between humans and LLMs, and it will be
| quickly better, faster and cheaper at 90% of the mundane
| programming tasks than your 200k/year dev writing forms,
| tables and apis in SF.
| leptons wrote:
| The "AI" is still just as much hit-or-miss with code as it is
| writing a paragraph about anything. It doesn't really know
| what it's doing, it's guessing an output that will make the
| user happy. I wouldn't trust it with anything important, life
| life support systems or airplanes, etc. but I'm sure with the
| race to the bottom that we're in, we'll get to that point
| someday soon.
| randito wrote:
| To state the obvious (again), it's shocking the rate of
| progress is with these tools. If this is 2 years of progress,
| what does 10-20 look like?
| foobarqux wrote:
| If what you said were actually true in a practical sense there
| would have been a perceptible revolution in products and
| services. There hasn't been.
| IggleSniggle wrote:
| I have no idea if you're correct about this or not. With 8
| billion people in the world, and a significant number of
| those people working as "intelligent agents," how would you
| perceive the difference?
| jsheard wrote:
| I think we have different definitions of meaningful code, most
| of these are pulling a library from NPM which practically
| completes the given task by itself. For example the "YAML to
| JSON converter" uses js-yaml... which parses YAML and outputs a
| Javascript object that can be trivially serialized to JSON. The
| core of that "project" is literally two lines of code after
| importing that library. const jsonObj =
| jsyaml.load(yamlText); const jsonText =
| JSON.stringify(jsonObj, null, 2);
| betaby wrote:
| YAML to JSON literally has `script
| src="https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/js-yaml/4.1.0/js-
| yaml...`. I don't see how went anywhere judging from examples.
| foobarqux wrote:
| I just don't seem to find this stuff as useful to me as people
| are portraying. Take the "extract URLs" example: I would just do
| curl -sL $URL | htmlq 'a' -a href
| cpursley wrote:
| Yeah, sure - if you have the memory that allows that sort of
| recall. For the rest of us, LLMs are like Alzheimer's
| medication or eye glasses. Believe it or not, these types of
| esoteric commands are very difficult for some of us to remember
| - but AI is amazing at this sort thing (Unix commands, etc as
| well as trouble shooting them).
| skydhash wrote:
| > _Yeah, sure - if you have the memory that allows that sort
| of recall._
|
| You don't memorize them. You learn the foundational knowledge
| (in this case how http works and the html format, and a bit
| of shell scripting), then read the manuals and compose the
| commands. And as days pass, you save interesting snippets
| somewhere. Then it becomes easier each time you interact with
| the tools.
|
| Anyone would find ffmpeg or imagemagick daunting if they
| don't know anything about audio or graphics.
| sureglymop wrote:
| I mean they may also make your memory worse if you always go
| straight for the llm instead of trying to remember.
| ben_w wrote:
| I can't remember, was it Aristotle or Plato who said that
| about _writing_?
| foobarqux wrote:
| That might be a reasonable argument if the LLM suggested
| something similar to the command I posted instead of an
| incredibly complicated webapp.
|
| As is it just spits out migraine-inducing "it-works-
| doesn't-it" solutions from someone starting to learn to
| program.
| pnut wrote:
| That's pretty happy path for one, and for two, how exactly are
| you doing it? Not by holding down a red button on your phone
| and talking into it, that's for sure.
|
| For three, add one more subtle requirement to the task, and now
| you're reading awk manpages and trial-and-erroring perl
| oneliners.
| throwup238 wrote:
| The new Sonnet version is pretty great at code but I keep hitting
| output size limitations in the Claude app when I usually didn't
| use to before. Anyone else experiencing "Claude's response was
| limited as it hit the maximum allowed length at this time" a lot
| more now?
|
| At this point their limited output limit is far behind
| o1/o1-mini. I really hope they significantly improve that next.
| shubb wrote:
| It's annoying but if you you just type continue it's pretty
| good at writing the rest of the code in a new file that you can
| copy paste together...
| StickyRibbs wrote:
| i'll start panicking when it can productionalize an app and
| deploy it to GCP without any errors.
| shishy wrote:
| I used cursor to manage spinning up and deploying a full stack
| app in AWS last week. Took me one afternoon.
| trhway wrote:
| I think you've just gave an idea to somebody's next startup,
| and we'll probably see it is being done in half-a-year. In
| general all that tedious YAML/etc. is ripe for the
| "autocompletion AI".
| skydhash wrote:
| And then you'll find out a node was deployed with no backup
| strategy while there are multiple useless ones burning money.
| sigh_again wrote:
| "Don't look at your Kubernetes configuration, trust our AI to
| do it well" sounds like a psyop straight out of GCP or AWS to
| charge you four times what they need to before telling you
| "no, you absolutely need that $500 charge for your 1RPS
| static website, yes yes absolutely."
| trhway wrote:
| And for auditing your config and for reviewing your cloud
| provider's [autogenerated by AI] offers and suggestions
| will be another AI which will also be able to chat with
| their customer support AI.
| corytheboyd wrote:
| Just in case you need it: https://github.com/gchq/CyberChef
|
| I was just trying to be helpful, since it was relevant to content
| in the post...
| burgerquizz wrote:
| if i want to just paste an url, of full page of HN, and extract
| all comments in a json format. would that tool work?
| sigh_again wrote:
| [...document.querySelectorAll(".commtext").values().map((it)
| => it.innerText)]
|
| Works in every single web browser. No calls to OpenAI needed,
| and I'm rusty on Javascript. Make it a bookmarklet, and you
| don't even need to run a dedicated webpage on your machine
| for that.
| corytheboyd wrote:
| You already know the answer to that. This is just a very
| helpful interface for arbitrary data conversions, that I
| thought passers by might like to know about. It's not an LLM,
| but it does what some of the examples in the article does,
| and more.
| xster wrote:
| Anthropic is so close to getting to a WeChat-esque store-less
| super-app state. It just needs a way to gather all your published
| artifacts and surface them easily in the sidebar like your
| favorited chats.
|
| Since Elon is so interested in that model, if xAI had Claude's
| capabilities, they would surely go with that angle
| skydhash wrote:
| I don't know if I'd take less time, but I would definitely type
| less.
| ToJans wrote:
| I fully agree.
|
| I think Claude offers me 10x productivity, especially for all
| these helper apps and technical POCs that I typically create
| during the week.
|
| And that's without even mentioning mail chain replies, analysis
| of legal or financial documents, helping my kids with their math
| assignments,...
|
| It's a huge enabler for me, and it's getting better every month.
|
| We are getting up the abstraction ladder faster and faster, and I
| cannot even imagine where we will end up within a few months, or
| a few years.
| djoldman wrote:
| @simonw: jina is getting cranky:
|
| https://tools.simonwillison.net/jina-reader?
|
| {"data":null,"code":451,"name":"SecurityCompromiseError","status"
| :45102,"message":"Your request is categorized as abuse. Please
| don't abuse our service. If you are sure you are not abusing,
| please authenticate yourself with an API
| key.","readableMessage":"SecurityCompromiseError: Your request is
| categorized as abuse. Please don't abuse our service. If you are
| sure you are not abusing, please authenticate yourself with an
| API key."}
| flakiness wrote:
| TIL Jina Reader API has (low rate limit) API key free option.
| https://jina.ai/reader/
| rty32 wrote:
| I'm sure there are plenty of examples like this, but one thing
| that I find really hard to deal with is to integrate such tools
| into existing codebase -- you can make all these things as
| standalone pages, but for a professional developer, you have
| certain standards and conventions, and often it takes a lot of
| work to review/revise the code to make it work with existing
| codebase, so much that you end up using inline completion just to
| help with obvious stuff or boilerplate. I woule rather spend 20%
| extra amount of time to write the code myself yet have
| confidence, than spend time tweaking the prompt or giving follow
| up instructions.
| salviati wrote:
| Have you tried https://aider.chat ?
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| Can those kinds of things work in monorepos with 50 million
| files?
| salviati wrote:
| I believe they can as long as you're able to identify a
| contained task that touches no more than a handful of
| files. Still very useful to automate some tedious work or
| refactoring if you ask me.
| codingwagie wrote:
| cursor.sh, add context to the prompt
| v3ss0n wrote:
| None of them worth writing home about
| nichochar wrote:
| We built an open-source and local tool that allows you to take
| these even further. Highly recommend plugging in the latest
| model, but you can keep iterating on the apps.
|
| Currently also on the front page
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41926067
| thimabi wrote:
| I take tools like these as an inspiration. All of us have at
| least some trivial tasks that can be automated. In the past,
| automating them might have been a hassle, but with LLMs, that's
| no longer the case. I, for one, have a "scripts" folder with
| dozens of one-off mini-apps to handle specific tasks, and this
| folder keeps growing every day.
| yapyap wrote:
| wish there was an option to hide all chat AI related topics on HN
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