[HN Gopher] Sam's Club CTO to Exit Due to Walmart Relocation Policy
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       Sam's Club CTO to Exit Due to Walmart Relocation Policy
        
       Author : jihadjihad
       Score  : 88 points
       Date   : 2024-10-21 20:50 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | dduugg wrote:
       | https://archive.is/fY0jZ
        
       | yunohn wrote:
       | I mean, being forced to move is bad enough, but Arkansas? That's
       | a tough one for someone in tech I feel.
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | Bentonville is being gentrified by the Walton Family
         | philanthropy. I hear young people talking about how great
         | Bentonville is.
        
         | vineyardlabs wrote:
         | Going to chime in. Young(ish) person in tech. Have heard
         | nothing but great things about Bentonville. I'm into mountain
         | biking and the city is like a spiderweb of awesome looking
         | biking/walking trails built by the Waltons.
        
           | korkybuchek wrote:
           | It's great until you find yourself looking for another tech
           | job, particularly with another RTO company.
        
             | chrisco255 wrote:
             | Yeah but I imagine CTOs of fortune 50 companies are paid
             | more than enough to relocate and probably have a golden
             | parachute package that more than compensates for any relo
             | costs and job search time.
        
               | bradly wrote:
               | I haven't work with Cheryl for probably 15 years now, but
               | at the time her family was very important to her and I
               | don't imagine that has changed. There are more than just
               | monetary costs for relocating.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | She has probably gotten accustomed to living somewhere where
           | you can comfortably be outside more than 4 months out of the
           | year. Or, you know, maybe she doesn't want to move her family
           | across the country.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | I think the implication was that the majority of the
           | demographic will find a deep red state governor a non-
           | starter. Perks of a given city aside, for decades their tax
           | dollars will get thrown away fighting causes like trans
           | rights, same as with all the losing battles against civil
           | rights, interracial marriage, gay marriage, heavy metal,
           | video games, etc.
        
             | pnw wrote:
             | That's an interesting objection so I asked ChatGPT to
             | clarify:
             | 
             | California Attorney General's Office (2024-25 Budget):
             | $1.28 billion total
             | 
             | California per capita spending: Approximately $32.92 per
             | person, based on a population of 39 million.
             | 
             | Arkansas Attorney General's Office (2024 Budget): $36
             | million total.
             | 
             | Arkansas per capita spending: Approximately $12 per person,
             | based on a population of 3 million.
        
           | reportingsjr wrote:
           | As an avid mountain biker and having been to bentonville
           | twice, the trails are just ok. Immaculately maintained and
           | there are some neat features, but the hills there are
           | seriously lacking elevation.
           | 
           | The small downtown area of bentonville is neat, but the
           | greater area is... meh.
        
         | pram wrote:
         | Yeah especially because it's a "company town" feels like
         | putting literally all your eggs in the Walmart basket.
        
           | msisk6 wrote:
           | Both JB Hunt and Tyson Foods are nearby. Both very large
           | Fortune 500 companies. Lots of smaller companies that work
           | with Walmart have offices there, too.
           | 
           | And as others have said, it's mountain bike heaven. Super low
           | cost of living, too.
           | 
           | Not my thing and I wouldn't move there, but for some folks
           | it's very attractive.
        
         | weezin wrote:
         | Depends on the person. Northwest arkansas is a beautiful place
         | with tons of outdoor activities and the ability to live like a
         | king on a major company CTO salary. I'd rather live there than
         | Seattle or San Francisco.
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | You'd live like a king on $14.5 million/year, regardless of
           | where you lived.
           | 
           | https://www1.salary.com/Suresh-Kumar-Salary-Bonus-Stock-
           | Opti...
        
             | mkipper wrote:
             | That link is for the CTO of Walmart, but TFA is about the
             | CTO of Sam's Club.
             | 
             | It looks like they're one rung down the ladder so I'm sure
             | they're doing just fine even in California, but they're
             | probably making quite a bit less than $15M/year.
        
         | sys_64738 wrote:
         | Having been to AK, all I can say is it's a toilet. I wouldn't
         | ever want to suffer living there. Only MS is worse in my
         | estimation.
        
           | marcus0x62 wrote:
           | AK is Alaska. Arkansas is AR.
        
       | jraines wrote:
       | Good for her. The exit tech alone should be proof enough that you
       | don't have to be physically close to tHe bUsINeSs to bring value
       | to millions of customers.
        
       | Tostino wrote:
       | I hope they have to offer some significant compensation to find a
       | competent replacement willing to move to Arkansas.
       | 
       | Companies need to be humbled a little with these policies they
       | want to force.
        
         | awill wrote:
         | they don't care. It's not like the person making this decision
         | will then be held accountable for having the pay a replacement
         | more.
        
           | hparadiz wrote:
           | It goes both ways. The comps being paid in the tech industry
           | right now would pay off an average single family home in
           | California in under 5 years. At this point these people are
           | driving around in Porsches with second homes choosing to
           | retire at 45.
        
         | midnitewarrior wrote:
         | They are promoting from within, presumably someone who is
         | already going to be in Bentonville.
        
       | tshaddox wrote:
       | I wonder who the highest-ranking employee will be who actually
       | _does_ move to Bentonville, Arkansas.
        
       | baoha wrote:
       | Nice, meanwhile the bigger CTO (Suresh Kumar) can stay in
       | Sunnyvale
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | midnitewarrior wrote:
       | "There's not enough money to get me to move my life to Arkansas."
        
         | passwordoops wrote:
         | Can't speak for Bentonville, but Little Rock is awesome!
        
           | Asparagirl wrote:
           | Arkansas currently has a 100% total abortion ban. They do not
           | even allow abortion at any week if you're raped, if you're a
           | child who has been raped, or if you're a victim of incest. No
           | woman in her right mind would ever move there, and this CTO
           | is female.
        
             | roughly wrote:
             | To expand on this, just to push off the inevitable: it's
             | not just about abortions, it's about women's healthcare
             | overall. It turns out there's a whole shitload of grey
             | areas, doctors aren't willing to go to jail, and it puts
             | women's lives in danger to have this theocratic bullshit in
             | place.
        
             | delichon wrote:
             | The longest drive from within Arkansas to an out of state
             | abortion clinic is about five hours. There is no place to
             | live without compromises. I'm in a state with free choice
             | and the nearest to me is a three hour drive. My distance to
             | access is greater than 90% of the population of Arkansas. I
             | can understand not wanting to live there due to that policy
             | on principle but not on practicality.
        
               | zippothrowaway wrote:
               | And what if it's an emergency?
               | 
               | Some compromises are not worth making when it could kill
               | you.
               | 
               | Note this law is actually working as designed - they want
               | pro-choice people to leave their state so they can
               | entrench their power there.
        
               | delichon wrote:
               | Here's the first sentence of the law:                 (a)
               | A person shall not purposely perform or attempt to
               | perform an abortion except to save the life of a pregnant
               | woman in a medical emergency.
               | 
               | https://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/title-5/subtitle-6/
               | cha...
        
               | sys_64738 wrote:
               | No medical provider in one of these garbage states will
               | offer any type of procedure for fear of being sued to
               | oblivion. These states banning this are filled with
               | garbage people.
        
               | roarkeful wrote:
               | Thanks, appreciate being called a garbage person. Have
               | you considered having empathy for people with different
               | views than you?
        
               | roughly wrote:
               | > Have you considered having empathy for people with
               | different views than you?
               | 
               | This is an interesting response in a thread defending an
               | abortion ban.
        
               | almostgotcaught wrote:
               | > The longest drive from within Arkansas to an out of
               | state abortion clinic is about five hours.
               | 
               | Arkansas isn't so bad because I can drive 300 miles to a
               | different state if I need medical care. Ok.
               | 
               | > There is no place to live without compromises.
               | 
               | Sure but calling an abortion ban a compromise is like
               | calling a nuclear warhead a nonlethal weapon.
        
               | protonbob wrote:
               | Do you fail to see the irony in comparing abortion to a
               | weapon and not meaning the actual killing of the fetus?
               | (Abortions to save the life of the mother are a very
               | small percentage of abortions)
        
               | marcuskane2 wrote:
               | You can get medical care there. You just can't end the
               | life of a baby, unless the mother's life is in danger.
        
               | Asparagirl wrote:
               | Words mean things, and the four-week fetus of a raped
               | eleven-year-old is not a "baby". Medical care to
               | terminate that pregnancy and that fetus is literally
               | medical care -- and is illegal in Arkansas.
        
               | delichon wrote:
               | I am much more pro choice than you are if you are
               | anywhere near the Overton Window. Every single state has
               | laws that shock my conscience as much as the Arkansas
               | abortion ban shocks yours. If you don't have to make such
               | compromises I envy you.
        
             | IncreasePosts wrote:
             | What a ridiculous take. 50+% of women in Alabama think
             | abortion should be illegal in most cases. And Alabama was
             | in the top 10 for percent inbound migration last year,
             | meaning there are tens of thousands of women who made the
             | choice to move to Alabama.
             | 
             | And you're saying all of them must be "not in their right
             | mind".
        
               | themadturk wrote:
               | How many are moving there because their husbands are
               | moving there and don't want divorces?
               | 
               | 50%+ of them being in favor of restricting abortion means
               | the rest don't like restricting abortion, but may not
               | have the means to leave.
        
               | IncreasePosts wrote:
               | Probably some, but no where near all.
               | 
               | Maybe - instead of saying that a state of millions of
               | people is filled with only helpless or mentally unwell
               | women - maybe we can just say that different people can
               | have different viewpoints on abortion while still being
               | mentally normal.
        
               | blackhawkC17 wrote:
               | Some people are so stuck in their bubbles that they can't
               | imagine anything else.
        
             | shrubble wrote:
             | CTO in the article appears to be beyond the age at which
             | pregnancy is possible?
        
               | lambdasquirrel wrote:
               | I did not get that impression from seeing a recent
               | photograph from her, and this might be missing the point.
               | Imagine that the law on the matter would be hostile
               | towards a younger aspiring-professional image of her. Is
               | Bentonville only going to be okay for women who've "made
               | it" and lived past their child-bearing years?
        
               | kjs3 wrote:
               | This will probably be a huge surprise for you, but some
               | people care about other people.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | Can't speak for Bentonville, but Little Rock is awful.
        
           | maxerickson wrote:
           | That isn't really an answer to the statement about moving
           | their life.
           | 
           | If they have been well compensated, they likely have other
           | prospects and don't really care about money, so their friends
           | and other relationships could be a priority.
        
         | babyent wrote:
         | I live in SF. I actually thought about moving out for a little
         | bit and realized California has some of the best protections
         | and social safety net for entrepreneurs compared to other
         | states.
         | 
         | I will never leave California.
         | 
         | It's the best place for forward thinking individuals and the
         | politics are what I imagine will lead to Star Trek and not a
         | dystopian nightmare where we live under capital allocator
         | warlords.
        
           | ethanwillis wrote:
           | I just have to say that from my perspective it's the Bay Area
           | politics that has produced the capital allocator warlords.
           | 
           | Gig work did not sprout from places like Arkansas.
        
       | almost_usual wrote:
       | According to LinkedIn they live in San Jose.
        
         | jorts wrote:
         | Wonder why they wouldn't work out of the Sunnyvale office then?
        
       | ian-g wrote:
       | Good. If you're going to require RTO, don't exempt higher ups
       | from it. Looking at you, Starbucks
        
         | fragmede wrote:
         | Starbucks' CEO famously commutes to Seattle from Newport Beach
         | in California, which is like a thousand miles.
        
           | sksxihve wrote:
           | Weekly in a private jet, while still having an at-home office
           | for days he isn't in Seattle. All because he didn't want to
           | relocate.
        
       | archeantus wrote:
       | I spent 7 amazing years working for Walmart Labs (what they
       | called it at the time) and it was a great place to work. I was
       | being paid like I lived in the Bay Area, but I lived in a much
       | lower cost of living area. I worked my tail off for them and got
       | two promotions. On the second one they declined to increase my
       | annual RSU target because I was making too much for my geo. I saw
       | the writing on the wall regarding their plans for remote workers
       | and left to a competitor that has been much more remote friendly.
       | 
       | I know so many amazing people that were doing the work of their
       | lives that quit or were laid off because of the RTO mandate. I
       | can't believe that they are doubling down on this, despite the
       | human and financial costs associated with it.
       | 
       | Ultimately it highlights an important fact about working at WM
       | (and lots of other companies, I am sure): you aren't as special
       | or irreplaceable as you think you are. Look out for yourselves
       | and do what makes sense for you, always!
        
         | delichon wrote:
         | I picked an outfit where the CEO, CTO and everyone else is
         | remote. There is no office to return to. I'm not a second class
         | citizen as remote staff. Recommended.
        
           | slyall wrote:
           | I worked at a company like that. This was 10 years ago when
           | remote was less common but the company was in the work-from-
           | home space so it was sort of in line with the product.
           | 
           | We got a new CEO from Austin. They opened a new office there.
           | Over the next few years they closed the most of the other
           | offices and stopped WFH.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | This comment is interesting to me because I know a lot of
         | people who went to Walmart Labs with similar stories: Amazing
         | at first, then sudden drop in compensation when they didn't
         | refresh RSUs, then slow slide into being pushed out.
         | 
         | The strange part is that all of the stories I've heard covered
         | different time periods, often not overlapping. Off the top of
         | my head I can think of 4 people I've run into at local meetups
         | who went from thinking Walmart Labs was a great place to work,
         | to having nothing good to say about the place at all.
         | 
         | It's natural for new jobs to have a honeymoon period that wears
         | off over time, but I've heard this same story arc so many times
         | that, as an outsider, it feels like something must be wrong
         | with how they approach long-term employees. Obviously the RTO
         | mandate is a huge blow to one of their original selling points,
         | too.
        
           | awill wrote:
           | I think it's straight forward. They made a decision to pay
           | top dollar because they had ambitious plans, and wanted the
           | silicon valley types. All went well.
           | 
           | Then, as this part of the company grew, some bean counter
           | decided it was a huge expense, and something had to be done.
           | 
           | I suspect these walmart labs people were costing triple the
           | standard walmart webdev, and so to the bean counters, the
           | path forward was obvious.
           | 
           | It's really unfortunate when non tech people make decisions
           | like this. I've worked at a FAANG for 10 years, and before
           | that was at HP and other mid-sized companies. HP's average
           | principal engineer would be outperformed by our interns.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | Were you writing Clojure there?
        
       | game_the0ry wrote:
       | > ...is leaving the company due to a policy requiring thousands
       | of corporate employees to relocate to headquarters in Arkansas...
       | 
       | > Walmart has asked many of its employees from smaller offices,
       | as well as remote workers around the US, to move to the company's
       | larger corporate offices. Most employees are going to Arkansas.
       | 
       | Wow. Just wow.
       | 
       | Let me get this straight -- Walmart management actually wants
       | people to up-root their lives, take their kids out of school, re-
       | arrange their routines with childcare, move away from family that
       | may be nearby...I could go on and on...and move to Arkansas?
       | 
       | "Move or go fuck yourself."
       | 
       | Clearly, Walmart management does not care about their employees.
       | 
       | As a side note, while I acknowledge the benefits of RTTO, working
       | remote is something that increased the quality of my life
       | tremendously. But management-types just can't help make their
       | employees miserable -- pathological.
        
         | lenerdenator wrote:
         | When you examine most of the Walton family's shenanigans, it
         | becomes fairly apparent that they're on the narcissistic
         | people-user side of things. This isn't surprising.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > Clearly, Walmart management does not care about their
         | employees.
         | 
         | Well duh. They've been on the top 5 companies with employees on
         | food stamps for years [1] and, like Amazon, just _love_ to set
         | up shop in areas with lots of unemployment to have a captive
         | audience of employees who can 't afford to escape.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/walmart-mcdonalds-
         | larges...
        
       | mikeortman wrote:
       | Artificially aiming to increase natural attrition through
       | requiring employees to make like-altering decisions (or else) is
       | evil. At the bare minimum, it should be seen as a layoff.
        
         | throwaway48476 wrote:
         | Or at least recognized as constructive dismissal.
        
       | yieldcrv wrote:
       | Who can you get to move from California to Arkansas
       | 
       | especially if they can already afford to live in California
       | 
       | even the few wage workers subject to California's taxes at higher
       | brackets can become aware of all the other places with lower
       | taxes
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | But on the salary they are willing to pay you can have like
         | five bass boats.
        
       | ErikAugust wrote:
       | Aren't the people who make the bulk of what Walmart sells remote
       | workers? It's not like they go into the office...
        
       | Centigonal wrote:
       | This isn't your typical RTO story. Walmart is asking their staff
       | to move across the country to the home office in Bentonville, AR.
       | 
       | Bentonville is a company town with not too much nearby. It's a
       | nice enough place, with good schools, a few surrounding towns,
       | and a fantastic art museum, but above all it's Walmart town. If
       | you move there from another state and ever decide to work
       | somewhere else, you're probably going to want to uproot your life
       | again and move your family across the country. It's a great
       | retention strategy for Walmart, and the lower CoL doesn't hurt
       | either. If you prefer a more cosmopolitan lifestyle and the
       | option to work elsewhere without moving, the Bentonville deal is
       | a pretty unattractive one.
       | 
       | At least they've put windows in some of the office buildings now,
       | that's a plus.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-21 23:00 UTC)