[HN Gopher] Scratches in 2001: A Space Osyssey (2018)
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       Scratches in 2001: A Space Osyssey (2018)
        
       Author : hyperific
       Score  : 91 points
       Date   : 2024-10-20 06:33 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (aphelis.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (aphelis.net)
        
       | mmsc wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/8lxPO
        
       | Aardwolf wrote:
       | This seems to require some preexisting knowledge on forensics of
       | scratches on film reels, or something, and I have trouble
       | following the article. Is there a TL;DR of what exactly the main
       | message is, is there anything special proven by these scratches
       | or anything that's different than other films?
        
         | rnewme wrote:
         | Nope, just random ramble on and on. But some interesting
         | tidbits about the filming of the movie itself in the second
         | part.
        
         | justin66 wrote:
         | _The fact that the scratches always appear within the confines
         | of one of the computer displays indicates they occurred on one
         | of the many 16 mm loops used in rear projection to fill the
         | screens with animated readouts. Because of the color of the
         | scratches, it is possible to infer they occurred on the
         | emulsion side of the 16 mm film_
         | 
         | > anything that's different than other films?
         | 
         | It's not like there were a ton of films simulating a
         | sophisticated computer display by playing a separate little
         | film inside a frame.
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | Douglas Trumbull was the technician behind the special
           | effects. He had been working making films for NASA describing
           | future space missions.
        
             | JKCalhoun wrote:
             | He is mentioned in the article but they left off _Silent
             | Running (1972)_ as one of his credits. Perhaps they think
             | it is lesser known?
             | 
             | Also mentioned, Brian Johnson -- but they leave off that he
             | was The Special Effects Guy behind the TV series _Space
             | 1999_.
             | 
             | Brian's comment in the article about "blimping" the
             | projectors to cut down the noise is an interesting throw-
             | back to when they would wrap a camera or projector in some
             | kind of throw-together enclosure to try to block the noise
             | it made. I believe in addition to using padding to dampen
             | the sound, they sometimes used thin lead sheets to build
             | the enclosure with as well.
             | 
             | How you vent a blimped projector that is probably running a
             | 1000 Watt bulb to keep it from overheating and melting the
             | film is something of a wonder.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | Also used many years later to spectacular effect in War Games
           | (1984).
        
         | KineticLensman wrote:
         | For me a central message that comes out really well is that
         | Kubrick created flat screen computer graphics by back
         | projecting manually prepared films onto the screens. In other
         | words, although the space parts of 2001 were full of computer
         | screens, none of these were actual computer output.
         | 
         | Admittedly this is a bit buried in the discussion about the
         | scratches but it was fascinating nevertheless.
        
           | svantana wrote:
           | > none of these were actual computer output
           | 
           | Not surprising since real-time, high-def color CGI hadn't yet
           | been done in 1968.
        
             | justin66 wrote:
             | Bowman and Poole are effectively using/watching tablet
             | computers at a couple points early in the movie. It's an
             | eye opener comparing that to the much lower budget computer
             | stuff in the eighties sequel, filmed by a different
             | director. Lots of CRTs and wireframe graphics.
        
           | qubex wrote:
           | This is also true for the large NORAD screens in WarGames
           | (1983).
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | Fascinating to imagine all the 16mm projectors hanging off
           | the back of the consoles in order to simulate what would,
           | many decades later, be a 1/8" thick OLED display.
           | 
           | I still think that was a rather prescient glimpse of the
           | future of technology for 1968 (or earlier when art production
           | began). Was that "common knowledge" in the sci-fi community
           | back then? That future displays would be flat, thin,
           | rectangular? I am thinking that the book _Fahrenheit 451_ had
           | wall-sized TV screens so perhaps that was already a popular
           | perception of the future.
        
             | KineticLensman wrote:
             | Interestingly the 1982 Bladerunner used CRTs for many of
             | its computer terminals which (to me) give it a somewhat
             | dated look - the screens have noticeable curves
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | Given the film-noir vibe and recycled-future look, CRT's
               | might have been an intentional artistic choice.
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Yes and be didn't just predict space travel and display
             | tech but also AI.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Arthur C Clarke collaborated closely with Kubrick on
               | developing the story.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Oh yeah true I forgot it was just based on a book.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | The book and movie were done at the same time. Clarke
               | wrote multiple versions of it - see "The Lost Worlds of
               | 2001".
               | 
               | The concept is from a short story "The Sentinel" by
               | Clarke.
        
       | mikepalmer wrote:
       | Love this. The adhd spirit is inspiring.
       | 
       | Right at the end of the article: "There is also an extra colon
       | mark in the line just below." pretty sure that's a semicolon!
        
         | arcadeparade wrote:
         | reminds me of this:
         | https://stanleykubrick.neocities.org/barrylyndoncandles
        
       | bloqs wrote:
       | I commend the effort, though I'm not sure if I'm commending the
       | author or their Adderal prescription
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | What's interesting is that Kubrick, famous for 100 takes to get
       | everything right, didn't spot this, or if he did was
       | unable/unwilling to fix it.
        
         | jvanderbot wrote:
         | Even after it was called out, and after looking at it, it still
         | looks like a low res planet crescent or other attempts to make
         | animated logo graphics. Why are we sure that wasn't the intent?
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | Evidence he was more doing that to project an image (no pun
         | intended) than anything.
        
         | zoeysmithe wrote:
         | I think the "perfectionist" is social and Hollywood (and
         | tabliod/lawsuit) cover for "this person abuses people on set."
         | In Kubrick's case it certainly was, famously with Duvall in the
         | Shining, but rumored with other talent too.
        
       | vertnerd wrote:
       | Now I have to watch it _again_. How did I never notice.. ?
       | 
       | I thought this was going to be about the _other_ scratches that
       | are visible in the film: the ones on the piece of glass that is
       | used to create the illusion of a floating pen. I never noticed
       | that until I saw my first screening of a pristine 70 mm print in
       | a smallish theater. I was hoping to read about that and any other
       | physical scratches I might have missed.
        
       | shawa_a_a wrote:
       | In the spirit of scratches, it was only at a recent 70mm film
       | screening that I spotted the rig used for the floating pen scene
       | as Floyd falls asleep in the shuttle.
       | 
       | As the weightlessness begins, his pen floats away - if you look
       | really really carefully you can spot that it's actually embedded
       | in a thin plastic film which is rotating about an axis, given
       | away by minute scratches on its surface.
        
         | cgh wrote:
         | They literally taped the pen to a sheet of glass, which they
         | rotated around. As low-tech as it gets but it looks wonderful,
         | except I guess for the scratches you spotted.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | Fascinating that this film continues to draw attention.
       | 
       | Watching it again recently in BluRay I noticed that the Moonbus
       | cockpit has nixie tubes near the joysticks. (Must have been an
       | older model.)
        
       | yawpitch wrote:
       | > Today, [Douglas] Trumbull is a highly regarded special effects
       | supervisor
       | 
       | Love this article and its maniacal detail orientation, but man
       | what an understatement; the late Doug Trumbull is highly
       | regarded, in the SFX/VFX context in much the same way as Einstein
       | was a highly regarded physicist.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | BTW, there is a YouTube user (1) that has created "video loops"
       | that look like these displays from the film that you could use as
       | a screensaver or what-have-you. Very cool.
       | 
       | 1) https://www.youtube.com/@TheHALProject
        
         | pndy wrote:
         | I think folks behind this did a great job imitating HAL and
         | other computer screens seen in the film. Wish it would be a
         | part of XScreenSaver project.
        
       | pndy wrote:
       | These computer screens, readouts in 2001 are fascinating -
       | there's focus on the information, a little bit of graphic there
       | and here and nothing else. Probably HAL manages the rest.
       | 
       | If AI will become the basic form of interaction with computers
       | then perhaps our interfaces will be simplified as well - at least
       | for the mass-market end users.
       | 
       | The other GUI I really like is MAGI from Evangelion - all these
       | black screens with classic amber color accompanied by red, green
       | and teal fit very well together - especially with the volumetric-
       | holographic displays from new tetralogy
        
       | _wire_ wrote:
       | SPOILER ALERT WHAT'S SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN
       | 
       | Much regard heaped upon 2001's effects, including the zero-G
       | sequences, but if you just watch the people, they are so
       | obviously carrying their own weight and the weight of objects:
       | the posture and movement yells 1-G at you from the screen. When
       | the stewardess reclaims the floating pen, she's balancing her
       | weight with each step and touching the seat backs for support,
       | then stoops and leans. In the ship crossing to the moon, the
       | stewardess is walking and her hips sway to her weight with each
       | step and her feet compress. The food trays slide out of kitchen
       | console by gravity. When the trays are delivered to the flight
       | staff, one reach out his hand under a tray to steady it from
       | below. When an officer visits crew in the cabin, he comes up from
       | behind their seats, leans in to talk and rests his arms on the
       | seatbacks. As food is sipped through clear straws, it rises and
       | falls with G pressure. Floyd stands with his own weight in
       | contemplation before the long instructions for the zero-G toilet.
       | In the Discovery, spacesuits hang from the wall and the crew sit
       | at the table to perform the antenna-module diagnostic.
       | 
       | The toilet instructions are a static print on plastic with a
       | backlight. The joke about the length of the instructions is now
       | lost to absurdity of the display.
       | 
       | On the moon, the excavation of the monolith is surrounded with
       | floodlights that reveal a distinct atmospheric haze.
       | 
       | The camera used at the excavation site is beautifully retro. That
       | it's used to take a group photo is quaint, especially when you
       | consider more modern ideas like the survey "pups" deployed to map
       | the site of the Engineers' spacecraft in the movie Prometheus.
       | 
       | While 2001 has been one of the most affecting movie experiences
       | of my life-- I first saw it by myself in a nearly empty large
       | auditorium in 1972 at the age of 10 and have seen it maybe 10
       | more times since 2001's effects seem more prosaic with every
       | viewing and my mind wanders into disbelief about the entire mis-
       | en-scene. Eroding amazement is replaced by a fascination with how
       | quickly a fantasy about an amazing future has become retro in its
       | fashion.
       | 
       | The Stargate crossing seemed like one of the weaker elements in
       | the movies heyday, but to me it's holding up better than most
       | other design elements. The ape costumes are holding up uncannily
       | well, as do the intro landscapes. Other elements are quirky: the
       | mule painted like a zebra, the vastly over-complicated landing
       | pad on the moon with the pizza-slices retractable dome, the
       | clouds of dust swirling at the landing, and the absurdly ornate
       | elevator than descends beneath the moon surface. Hal's memory
       | closet with arrays of keyed optical modules that slowly eject to
       | inconsistent extents. The oddly opaque schematics and diagnostics
       | for the Discovey's "malfunctioning" antenna unit. The external
       | air supply hose for the space suit. The extendable pads for the
       | pods. The chain of blocks design for the Discovery, with the
       | large off-axis mass of the antenna. Why is a pod needed to reach
       | the antenna? Etc, on and on.
       | 
       | The ultimate movie about the future of mankind is now a beautiful
       | relic.
       | 
       | With every viewing of 2001 I recall with more appreciation Andrei
       | Tarkovsky's lament about what he might have been able to achieve
       | with his Solaris if he had access to the kind of wealth available
       | to Kubrick.
        
         | hulitu wrote:
         | > With every viewing of 2001 I recall with more appreciation
         | Andrei Tarkovsky's lament about what he might have been able to
         | achieve with his Solaris if he had access to the kind of wealth
         | available to Kubrick.
         | 
         | He might have achieved the Steven Soderbergh version. /s
        
       | nsxwolf wrote:
       | I wonder if they are on the CED version.
        
       | jl6 wrote:
       | Wow, it hadn't even occurred to me to think that in 1965 they
       | wouldn't have had computer monitors capable of displaying those
       | images, and would have had to fake it by projecting the image
       | from behind.
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | Is this article out-of-date?
       | 
       | There is a (wonderful) 2001 4k uhd disk that has come out that is
       | unmentioned.
       | 
       | EDIT: December, 2018
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KH8W76F
        
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