[HN Gopher] Love being interrupted when my monitor asks me to ac...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Love being interrupted when my monitor asks me to accept user
       agreements
        
       Author : h2odragon
       Score  : 283 points
       Date   : 2024-10-19 17:27 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | Y_Y wrote:
       | Is this the future you wanted?              (Agree) (Later)
        
         | Certhas wrote:
         | I want that T-Shirt.
        
           | domoregood wrote:
           | Your LG monitor likely just read that comment and will bill
           | you for the T-shirt immediately.
        
         | disqard wrote:
         | (Later) --> Remind me (Tomorrow) (3 days Later)
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Aargghh, a prompt similar to this is going to make me an
         | extremist that'll wage j**d on IT companies!
         | 
         | Google Photos wants you to turn on backups so you blow through
         | your 15GB quota and buy storage from them, so once in a while
         | when I open the app it screams "Back up is not turned on! You
         | risk losing your photos!" (ok maybe not that hysterically).
         | 
         | Then the "Back up photos" slider is active, and I just have to
         | hit "Continue". I'd have to slide it to off, and the button
         | changes to "Continue without backup" and I have to hit it.
         | 
         | It's freaking disgusting that software companies now change
         | your settings (ok, thankfully it still asks for your
         | confirmation) and nag you about it every few weeks.
         | 
         | BTW Google, I have a Google Pixel 1 phone that has lifetime
         | unlimited photos backup, and I intend on abusing that
         | functionality by using automated transfers between my daily
         | phone -> my NAS -> Pixel 1 -> your servers until you fuck me
         | over and delete my account.
        
         | Nition wrote:
         | Please scroll to the bottom and confirm you have read the
         | entire FUTURE EULA before continuing.
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | By definition, another "future I wanted" _can only arrive_
         | "later" than now, so those two options actually kinda make
         | sense. :P
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | And if you gaze for long into an LG(tm) liquid-crystal display
       | monitor, the LG(tm) liquid-crystal display monitor asks your
       | permission to gaze also into you.
        
       | HPsquared wrote:
       | Is this a side effect of allowing monitors to use USB-C? Is there
       | some driver via WHQL that allows the monitor to connect to the
       | internet???
       | 
       | This seems to me like a potential security issue.
        
         | johnnyo wrote:
         | That was my question as well. What is the user benefit of the
         | monitor having a network connection?
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | special offers!
        
           | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
           | Once you've identified the viewer you can see if they have a
           | license for that they're viewing and report the thoughtcrime
           | if not.
        
             | jerf wrote:
             | Why does my monitor need to do that? My OS, the Intel
             | Management Engine, my application, the website I'm using,
             | my internet provider, my modem's hardware stack, and the
             | several networked microphones in my home are already doing
             | it.
        
               | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
               | Consider the case where there's a quiet observer looking
               | at the screen alongside you. The monitor also needs to
               | identify them so that it can ensure that you're not an
               | accessory to thoughtcrime by letting them look at your
               | screen.
        
               | rakoo wrote:
               | Your monitor manufacturer isn't on the list and also
               | wants a piece of that fresh brain meat
        
               | wolpoli wrote:
               | Until we could tap into your optical nerve or directly
               | into your brain, the monitor is the closest we could get.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | I don't think that really caught on that much. Film studios
             | care about it, but TV manufacturers don't really.
             | 
             | This is for advertising plain and simple (and probably
             | selling user data to some extent). That's direct income for
             | the manufacturers so they care about it a lot.
        
           | secondcoming wrote:
           | I use my monitor's network connection so devices connected to
           | it via thunderbolt also have ethernet.
        
             | wholinator2 wrote:
             | But, why doesn't the ethernet just connect to the device
             | directly? Have they really taken so many ports away from us
             | that the only way to connect to ethernet is to daisy chain
             | through a fucking smart monitor?
        
               | unsnap_biceps wrote:
               | Single cable docking. You plug your laptop into the
               | monitor via USBC and it charges your laptop, provides it
               | a Ethernet connection and drives the monitor display.
               | 
               | It's neat, but not this dystopian neat.
        
               | jonathanlydall wrote:
               | Not defending the sickening concept of a "spy" monitor.
               | 
               | But my Dell P2423DE monitor has a USB-C "dock" built into
               | it so that I plug a single cable into my laptop which
               | connects it to 2x 1440p monitors, power, mouse, headset
               | receiver, keyboard and a wired ethernet connection.
               | 
               | Quite frankly, it's awesomely convenient.
               | 
               | It's totally legitimate to have a network port on a
               | monitor.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | That does not sound to me like a network port on a
               | monitor. That sounds like a monitor / docking station
               | combination.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | I've never heard of this. What specific devices, if you
             | don't mind me asking?
             | 
             | I had no idea a Thunderbolt hub could serve as a parallel
             | Ethernet hub, nor that there were devices that could or
             | would want to take advantage of this.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | A few manufacturers are now shipping monitors with the same
           | OS as their smart TVs, so they can stream Netflix and stuff
           | standalone. OP has an LG one, and I know Samsung are also
           | doing it on some of their newer models. Thankfully there's
           | still plenty of dumb monitors on the market for now,
           | including _most_ LGs and Samsungs.
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | Given how garbage the software quality is on hardware
             | devices, why would I ever want them to be connected to the
             | internet? Ad/privacy or security concerns aside, even
             | companies who should know better have shown they cannot be
             | trusted and will continue to load up irrelevant patches
             | onto a device until it eventually crawls under the
             | increased computational demands. Slowing a previously
             | responsive system.
        
         | dgraph_advocate wrote:
         | The manufacturer could have added connectivity via mobile
         | baseband and a SIM card, just for the privilege of harvesting
         | your viewing habits and passwords.
        
         | Animats wrote:
         | Hm. Will Linux drivers permit this thing to talk to the
         | Internet? And if it can't reach the mothership, will it still
         | work as a monitor?
         | 
         | This has exploit potential. If a properly crafted ad can
         | successful take over a monitor, the attacker now owns a USB-C
         | device with an Internet connection. From there, it can make the
         | device pretend to be some other USB device, such as a keyboard,
         | mouse, and USB storage. From that point, they can do almost
         | anything.
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | My TV did this. The worst part was that it disappeared so quickly
       | I didn't have time to get the remote and acknowledge it. There
       | did not appear to be any way in the settings to go and handle it
       | manually. I just had to wait and get lucky.
        
       | yu3zhou4 wrote:
       | This is the first time I ever thought we need an open source
       | monitor hardware
        
         | beretguy wrote:
         | I feel like we need open source hardware cellphones too, and
         | everything else.
        
           | yu3zhou4 wrote:
           | Fair point
        
           | moepstar wrote:
           | Need? Absolutely.
           | 
           | How good will it be? Hopefully better than the OpenMoko
           | Freerunner I once had - good idea, worst execution ever.
           | Wouldn't even work half decently as a phone, not to mention
           | any other aspects of it...
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | I have started preparing myself mentally for a future where I
         | give up on most of modern technology in the home and just go
         | back to paper books/vinyls/etc.
        
           | yu3zhou4 wrote:
           | I guess it could become so difficult that it could be easier
           | to RE the hardware and remove all the spying stuff
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Same. My newest computer is from 2015... That said, at least
           | one vendor is making computers I'm willing to purchase:
           | https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/mnt-reform-next
        
         | krenzo wrote:
         | Unfortunately, DisplayPort and HDMI specifications are kept
         | private unless you're a paying member. I've successfully
         | implemented DisplayPort 1.2 in an FPGA from specification
         | documents I found, but I could never find the specification for
         | anything better.
        
           | kebokyo wrote:
           | Do you have anything online documenting how you did this?
           | That's actually really cool
        
           | mafuy wrote:
           | I thought only HDMI is problematic, and DP is quite open?
        
       | rspoerri wrote:
       | Better get a firewall for you monitor. Maybe a usb-c plug that
       | filters non visual traffic? /s
        
         | meindnoch wrote:
         | A prepaid cellular modem is installed to transmit _essential_
         | telemetry.
        
           | micahdeath wrote:
           | This would be a great thing to hack to get free internets. =D
        
             | meindnoch wrote:
             | Those SIMs usually have very limited bandwidth packages.
        
               | tremon wrote:
               | Great, make sure you max out that bandwidth with random
               | garbage (preferably to the same endpoints that the
               | telemetry goes to) to prevent your owned devices from
               | exfiltrating your life.
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | The idea of TVs doing this smells of urban legend to me, but
           | a friend bought a new car recently, and he can connect to it
           | from his phone (obviously over the cloud), he was wondering
           | how it works because he didn't have to subscribe to anyhing,
           | but yeah it has cellular connectivity paid for by the car
           | manufacturer...
        
       | ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 wrote:
       | This is one from a line of LG monitors that state they come with
       | webOS
       | 
       | https://www.lg.com/us/smart-monitors
       | 
       | https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32sq730s-w-smart-monitor
        
         | nuancebydefault wrote:
         | Wow the Q&A's answers seem AI generated... Everything about
         | these 'smart' monitors feels quite 'fabricated' to me. I feel
         | next time I shop for a monitor I will skip LG.
        
       | morkalork wrote:
       | Coming soon to monitors with integrated webcams: please drink
       | verification can to continue working!
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | Sadly they've only given us Mountain Dew flavored Doritos but
         | not the other way around yet...
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | Doesn't microsoft have that patented?
        
           | Randor wrote:
           | I know you guys are joking, but there use to be a Microsoft
           | energy drink, that was only available to employees.
           | 
           | https://www.google.com/search?q=Microsoft+employee+Talking+R.
           | ..
           | 
           | The blue one actually tasted really good. Was available on
           | campus for several years in nearly every building. :)
        
             | moffkalast wrote:
             | A-ring-a-drink-a-Bing
        
           | zinekeller wrote:
           | Actually, it's Sony's patent 8,246,454 which has that
           | "interactive networked video game" feature
           | (https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en), and AFAIK
           | there isn't a "drink verification can"-style patent yet.
        
             | WaxProlix wrote:
             | Not sure if it's this one in question, or even from a real
             | patent at all, but I think this is what GP was referencing;
             | it made the rounds a few years back.
             | 
             | https://i.redd.it/wb7lhfporqj91.png (sorry for reddit pic
             | link, poked around a bit and this was the one I could find)
        
       | andrepd wrote:
       | DRINK VERIFICATION CAN
        
         | 93po wrote:
         | mountain dew is for me and you
         | 
         | in a life-imitates-art twist, Xbox did in fact release an Xbox
         | minifridge that was mountain dew colors many years after this
         | greentext
        
         | dredmorbius wrote:
         | For those as out of the loop as myself, apparently a 12 year
         | old 4chan greentext meme:
         | 
         | <https://imgur.com/please-drink-verification-can-dgGvgKF>
        
       | CoastalCoder wrote:
       | I'd love to see a lawsuit regarding them knowingly shipping a
       | monitor with this defect.
       | 
       | When the EULA is blocking the content, the monitor isn't working
       | as advertised. And they willingly shipped it like that.
        
       | mimischi wrote:
       | So is this Recall by Microsoft, without having to use Windows?
       | Great!
       | 
       | /s
        
       | rglullis wrote:
       | I am seriously considering creating a dropship company focused
       | _exclusively_ on buying and selling electronic components that
       | are sold for parts and people can assemble them at home, Ikea-
       | style.
       | 
       | I would start with selling 50" and 65" inch "dumb" TVs. Just the
       | panel, a nice enclosure and a board with an IR receiver, TV tuner
       | and HDMI outputs. BYO top box and Soundbar. I wonder how fast it
       | would take to get 10000 orders.
        
         | CooCooCaCha wrote:
         | Is it even possible to just buy panels for normal consumers?
        
           | beAbU wrote:
           | Look up "large format display". Its basically a TV sans any
           | smart shit. Used in commercial display applications, dynamic
           | menus in restaurants, info panels etc.
           | 
           | They are mad expensive because presumably they are not
           | subsidised by the shitware that "smart" tvs ship with.
        
             | wpietri wrote:
             | I'm sure the ad revenue is part of it, but the commercial
             | ones are also built for 24/7 operation over the course of
             | years. And I expect another part of the added expense is
             | that they know commercial purchasers aren't as price
             | sensitive.
        
             | Ferret7446 wrote:
             | The entire reason that smart TVs are cheap with ads is
             | because consumers "prefer" that. If (most) people bought
             | expensive TVs with no ads, companies would, you know, sell
             | that.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | Consumers only have a choice among what is already been
               | made available in the marketplace.
        
               | FireBeyond wrote:
               | Even the high end $3,000, $4,000+ TVs have ads. Show me a
               | mainstream TV that doesn't.
        
         | meindnoch wrote:
         | Customer here!
        
         | seletskiy wrote:
         | Drop me a line if you ever decide to start. Be glad to help.
        
         | pixiemaster wrote:
         | please do. but it seems it would be more expensive to produce a
         | tv with less features: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/dumb-
         | tvs-heres-why-you-ca...
        
           | leereeves wrote:
           | "Google pays between $12 and $15 per unit to a manufacturer
           | like TCL or Hisense per TV that uses Google TV."
           | 
           | I'd be willing to pay a $15 premium for a TV that is built to
           | do what I want, not what an advertiser wants.
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | As a journalist once said to me, regarding a different
             | topic (local politics in some city), something like: _I
             | wasn 't surprised that bribes were happening; I was
             | surprised that the bribes were so small._
             | 
             | Similar applies here: incredulous that, in various aspects
             | of the tech industry, customers/users are often being sold
             | out for such small amounts of money.
             | 
             | (Though manufacturing is easier to understand than a lot of
             | software-only businesses, which aren't about cost
             | engineering.)
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | It sort of makes sense. Like, I'm very bothered by this
               | spyware-industrial system and put a high value on my
               | privacy. But, objectively, I am extremely boring and
               | seeing what I'm looking at is actually worth much less
               | than $15.
               | 
               | It is actually really weird how popular this business
               | model has become (I guess it is a thing because people
               | don't read the fine print). Invasion of privacy is, I
               | think, extremely asymmetric, so the business model of
               | spying on people is a huge destroyer of value.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | I would absolutely love something like that.
        
         | snakey wrote:
         | I've also thought about this in quite some depth. I think
         | people would be willing to pay a premium for simple, quality
         | electronics.
         | 
         | I also think there could be a good opportunity to expand this
         | to kitchen appliances too. Premium quality but really dumb. I
         | would be a loyal customer
        
           | doe_eyes wrote:
           | With kitchen appliances, it's already a thing. For example,
           | there's a "retro" brand that sells microwaves with a timer
           | knob:
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/Nostalgia-NRMO7YW6A-Countertop-
           | Microw...
           | 
           | The problem in that segment is that it's basically the same
           | disposable, non-repairable tech that's destined to the
           | dumpster in a couple of years. The company is selling the
           | _appearance_ of having a different design philosophy, and it
           | works because the consumer has no way of telling.
           | 
           | So, if you want to do anything more profound in that space,
           | it's going to be hard to compete.
        
             | Nition wrote:
             | I think you make a good point in general, but the Ikea
             | TILLREDA microwave might be a better example of cheap and
             | simple: https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/p/tillreda-microwave-
             | oven-white-6...
             | 
             | That one you linked has actually quite a lot of features -
             | the 12 presets, auto cooking mode, weight setting, the
             | potentially confusing buttons like "express" and "micro
             | power".
        
           | Tempat wrote:
           | Microwaves that are just time and power setting, cooktops
           | that are just four knobs, ovens that are just mode and heat,
           | maybe a simple timer... I'd buy those too.
        
         | bloqs wrote:
         | Sign me up
        
         | jbombadil wrote:
         | I would love to buy a TV with a great image quality, a bunch of
         | ports, image tweaking and nothing else. No wifi, no cellular,
         | no internet, no speakers.
         | 
         | Honestly? Doesn't even need a remote provided CEC works fine
         | with my Apple TV.
        
           | cassianoleal wrote:
           | How would you tweak the image via CEC over the Apple TV?
        
             | throwup238 wrote:
             | Potentiometers on the side. (I'm only half joking)
        
             | meindnoch wrote:
             | HDMI CEC v1.3 specification, page 38: "Device Menu Control"
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | I think you'll find the price at that volume and without
         | subsidy a bit higher than a lot of people want to pay.
         | 
         | It may be cheaper and even easier to just buy and somehow
         | modify Onn/Hisense into dumb displays, though I've never
         | explored the idea myself to know how feasible it even is.
        
           | neuralRiot wrote:
           | Honestly when you see what a modern TV has inside and how it
           | is assembled you realize that there's not much "subsidy".
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | Just don't connect the "smart" Tv to the internet. It's still
           | a "dumb display" if you don't give it internet access. Don't
           | give it wifi access, don't plug in an ethernet cable.
        
             | M_bara wrote:
             | I think the hdmi standard allows for Ethernet over hdmi.
             | That's a sneaky way in for your tv
        
               | sgerenser wrote:
               | While its allowed by the standard, its not something that
               | is often used. Certainly the AppleTV that I use does not
               | even offer an option to share its network connection over
               | Ethernet. And I'm not aware of any other box that does.
        
             | jodrellblank wrote:
             | It'll only be a matter of a few years before it has a 5G
             | modem and doesn't give you a choice to "just" not connect
             | it to the internet.
        
               | kjkjadksj wrote:
               | If apple can't get free data for their cellular devices
               | theres no hope for vizio et al.
        
               | jodrellblank wrote:
               | Amazon set a precedent with Kindle 3G keyboard edition
               | many years ago; it had free worldwide cellular access for
               | buying books and had an experimental web browser good
               | enough for webmail. I never thought it was free from the
               | carriers, I assume the bill went to Amazon.
               | 
               | If Vizio can't arrange that alone, they could pool
               | together many manufacturers and devices, offer the phone
               | companies a copy of the data, or wait until the cost
               | drops low enough.
        
               | marshray wrote:
               | The data required to exfiltrate the telemetry and serve
               | ads is vastly smaller than that used by the average
               | iPhone.
        
           | moepstar wrote:
           | Problem is: you'd still be stuck with a Hisense TV. They got
           | planned obsolescence built in, most of their TVs power
           | supplies go out after only 4 years or even less.
        
         | edgineer wrote:
         | How about BYO tuner while you're at it?
         | 
         | See the LG 48 CX OLED television versus the Gigabyte AORUS
         | FO48U OLED monitor. The LG was a jump in quality and
         | performance (4K 120Hz) and many people bought it to use as a
         | computer monitor. But it's smart (cannot disable advertising
         | itself over Bluetooth while on), cannot be woken up over HDMI
         | (requires using the remote control to turn on each day) and it
         | does not have displayport in.
         | 
         | The Aorus is the same panel but not a TV, functions as a
         | monitor should, and I would have bought that instead had I
         | known.
         | 
         | If a product finder like alternativeto.net existed, where you
         | find non-shittified alternatives to a popular appliance, I
         | would use it every time I shop.
        
         | mhuffman wrote:
         | You can search NewEgg or Amazon for "Business TV" or
         | "Commercial TV" and they will almost all be "dumb" TVs. They
         | are readily available.
        
           | ska wrote:
           | Readily available at a good premium.
           | 
           | You can sometimes get a great deal on these during
           | liquidation though.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | Nope, you're getting the ad-infested TVs for a good
             | discount.
        
               | kibwen wrote:
               | Well, they're at a discount if your privacy has no value.
        
               | avmich wrote:
               | You have to decide what's more valuable to you - an extra
               | chunk of money or the privacy which is endangered with
               | the cheaper option.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | No, they're at a discount period. They're sold for less
               | money.
        
               | rowanG077 wrote:
               | I really doubt manufacturer lose money on smart tv sales.
        
               | water-your-self wrote:
               | I wanted to find a reputable source to back up this claim
               | but instead I found a link from the atlantic. I did not
               | read it, its behind a paywall and its not peer reviewed.
               | The general concensus is that smart = subsidized by
               | adware
               | 
               | https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/01/sm
               | art...
        
               | gradstudent wrote:
               | > I did not read it, its behind a paywall
               | 
               | Browse to the article, click reader mode, click refresh.
               | Might need to be in a private window, in case of cookie
               | shenanigans.
        
               | rowanG077 wrote:
               | The link simply states that they make a lot of money from
               | the malware on TVs, something I'm not disputing. I am
               | disputing that if I would buy a TV burn it without ever
               | turning it on they manufacturer would lose money. In
               | essence: The ads are simply pure profit on top of the TV
               | sale.
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | > Readily available at a good premium.
             | 
             | You have this backwards. The consumer "smart" units are
             | subsidized by the monetization of the data they hoover up
             | as you use it. This subsidized price has become accepted as
             | normal price, but they clearly are discounted prices.
             | 
             | Yeah yeah, economy of scale on consumer vs prosumer+ units,
             | but if you really believe that is the sole reason you are
             | sorely mistaken
        
         | mananaysiempre wrote:
         | The Framework folks hit an unexpected snag with a similar idea:
         | turns out the US tax on a laptop assembled in Taiwan is much
         | lower than on a box of parts made in Taiwan that you can
         | assemble into a laptop yourself. (Why? Because.) Thus the
         | strange not-really-DIY "DIY edition".
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | What is a laptop anyway? Can somebody sell 60 2-in-1
           | convertible laptops where the top bit comes off and also has
           | an HDMI in port? The computer could be a raspberry pi or
           | something...
        
             | borski wrote:
             | Probably. This is a thing with guns, too. In CA, for
             | example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal.
             | But separate the upper from the lower, and you no longer
             | have an AR15; now you have parts, none of which are
             | semiautomatic and center-fire on their own. That's no
             | longer illegal (though if they can prove intent everything
             | changes, of course).
             | 
             | IANAL, but I always found that kind of loophole
             | fascinating.
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | No, the lower is still legally considered a firearm. It
               | can't fire anything, and it's not a gun in practical
               | purposes, but for purposes of regulation it is still a
               | firearm.
               | 
               | The reason it's probably still legal to have in
               | California is that California bans a lot of largely
               | cosmetic or non-functional items. For example, many
               | states ban threaded barrels which by itself doesn't
               | change any characteristics of the barrel other than the
               | fact that it has a thread on the end of it.
        
               | everforward wrote:
               | I believe California has some laws that specifically
               | apply to semiautomatic firearms, which an AR15 lower is
               | not. The lower is incapable of semiautomatic fire (as in
               | the gas blowback/piston system is in the upper).
               | 
               | They sell single-shot .50 BMG uppers, non-semiautomatic
               | AR15 uppers do exist.
               | 
               | I believe the majority of stuff California regulates
               | attaches to the upper anyways, which isn't a firearm
               | under federal law (unsure if Cali is weird about that).
               | Bump stocks and responsive triggers are the only things I
               | can think of California might regulate that go on the
               | lower, and last I heard the ATF was tracking those down
               | as an NFA violation.
        
               | zmgsabst wrote:
               | The bump stock ban was struck down as exceeding statutory
               | authority [*] in June.
               | 
               | https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-strikes-
               | dow...
               | 
               | [*] - edited reason after rereading; this wasn't 2nd
               | amendment, but ATF misinterpretation of the law
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | The lower is the serialized part, and is regulated in
               | isolation as a firearm in every instance I am aware of
               | (but I am not familiar with California gun laws
               | specifically).
               | 
               | Unless a CA-licensed attorney knowledgeable in California
               | gun laws and ATF regulations specifically told you that a
               | particular CA law applying to "semiautomatic firearms"
               | does not apply to your AR-15 lower in isolation, do not
               | listen to random internet comments about it _especially_
               | when they begin with  "I believe." Regardless of where
               | you fall on the issue politically or ideologically, it's
               | an objective fact that California's government is hostile
               | toward its citizens possessing and bearing firearms, and
               | being fuzzy on what is or is not a felony is a risky
               | proposition.
               | 
               | If you're wrong, best case scenario you will lose all
               | your guns, worst case you will end up in federal prison.
        
               | WillPostForFood wrote:
               | CA regulates magazines and pistol grips (in combination
               | with other parts) which attach to the lower receiver. Not
               | sure you are fully correct in saying the lower is not a
               | semiautomatic firearm. While the lower by itself is
               | clearly not a complete and functional firearm, and not
               | capable of firing without an upper, the
               | sear/disconnector, which determines semi/full auto is
               | part of the lower.
        
               | somat wrote:
               | Specifically in the case of ar-15 pattern firearms,
               | having the lower be "the firearm" is hilarious. the lower
               | is a low precision, low pressure part. it is actually one
               | of the easiest parts of the firearm to make. and because
               | the lower is the controlled part, every other part, the
               | ones that are hard to make, are readily available.
        
           | meindnoch wrote:
           | You mean import tax? Then the solution is simple: assemble a
           | dummy device from the components, pay the lower import
           | duties, and then disassemble it and sell the parts. This is
           | called tariff engineering.
        
         | svilen_dobrev wrote:
         | i think somebody is already doing it - you may combine forces.
         | Check this thread, about year ago:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35484594
         | 
         | also, check this one from yesterday:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855403
        
           | epcoa wrote:
           | Wouldn't hold my breath.
           | 
           | The relevant subthread really is this:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35487062
           | 
           | Industrial panels make horrible TVs. Even if you use an
           | appropriate panel, there's more than just designing a sheet
           | metal case.
           | 
           | Based on people suggesting commercial large format displays,
           | apparently some don't understand this. The market for someone
           | foolish enough to drop $3k on a large screen without Dolby
           | Vision is very small though. People that are absolutely cost
           | conscious will continue to buy the loss leader crap TVs.
        
         | alkonaut wrote:
         | Try buying the regular smart ones and disabling the spyware
         | while keeping the rest of the subsidized price. It would be a
         | legal battle about whether you can actually enforce some terms
         | of use that would prohibit it. The rough part is having to
         | cover the warranty when resold which will cost a lot. But
         | probably still cheaper than the dropshipped dumb panels.
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | I recently picked up an 85" Sony TV from Costco on clearance
         | for $1399 (this model originally retailed for $2500, its only a
         | step or two down from their top-of-the-line). I connected it to
         | a hardwired ethernet cable, let it do the software updates,
         | then unplugged it. No need for it to be online if I'm just
         | using it with an AppleTV box anyway. I'd suspect an 85"
         | "business TV" would be at least 4-5x the price.
         | 
         | Funny thing was after the software updates, the next day the TV
         | prompted me to install a firmware update on the remote. First
         | time I've ever seen that one.
        
         | Ancapistani wrote:
         | IR receiver is optional IMO. Most people would plug an Android
         | TV box or media PC into it anyhow, which will handle volume
         | control and power via HDMI.
        
         | White_Wolf wrote:
         | Just order a standard, add infested one, and a basic chinese
         | board for it. Sellers will flash them for your panel and all.
         | It can't any more basic than that.
        
       | bogwog wrote:
       | I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott
       | feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy
       | button on a product page. Customers can choose to join one of the
       | boycotts instead of clicking the buy button, and then get
       | redirected to a list of alternatives.
       | 
       | It won't ever happen obviously, but I wonder if it would solve
       | these types of problems? Consumers collectively boycotting
       | something is the most powerful way to fight things like this, but
       | I can't think of a successful example of that in recent times.
       | Even "viral" boycotts on social media platforms are likely to get
       | limited reach due to algorithm fuckery. Or is it that nobody but
       | us tech nerds actually cares about stuff like this, and even a
       | blatant in-your-face boycott feature on Amazon wouldn't make a
       | difference?
        
         | squiffsquiff wrote:
         | It would probably be possible as a third party extension. See
         | Fakespot extension for instance.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | > I wonder what would happen if Amazon introduced a boycott
         | feature. It could be a list of active boycotts next to the buy
         | button on a product page
         | 
         | A feature that simultaneously discourages sales, encourages
         | retailers to pull products from the platform, and heavily
         | incentivizes abuse from competitors who would benefit from
         | convincing customers to boycott their competitors products? For
         | some reason I don't imagine Amazon product managers are going
         | to like this idea.
         | 
         | Boycotts are wishful thinking in the modern era of online
         | shopping. The Venn diagram of people who would actively boycott
         | a product like this and the people who would seek it out on
         | Amazon has no overlap. These products are targeted at people
         | who do purchasing for their office or who click the buy button
         | without taking 1 minute to glance at reviews. The people who
         | care enough to actively boycott have already read reviews of a
         | product before they seek it out for purchase.
        
           | bogwog wrote:
           | If Amazon were competing to win customers, they might do
           | something like this to increase trust in the quality of the
           | products on their store. Of course, that's not Amazon. The
           | only significant threats to Amazon today are anti-trust
           | regulators.
        
             | talldayo wrote:
             | I don't think it's competitive, it's suicidal. No rational
             | storefront would ever tell you all the terrible things
             | about the products they stock, no matter how large or small
             | they are. It's insulting to the suppliers and _more
             | importantly_ , stops people from impulse-buying big-ticket
             | products.
             | 
             | You might argue that showing these "boycotts" would stop
             | people from returning these products, but it would also
             | curtail a whole lot of buyers that would consider it "good
             | enough". Amazon deserves their fair shake by the FTC but if
             | you think _this_ is the reason then you 've got pretty
             | bizarre expectations.
        
               | hyperadvanced wrote:
               | Agreed, sadly comment OP is in dreamland about why an
               | E-commerce company would ever even consider doing
               | anything to stop people from buying things, regardless of
               | quality or any other external factor.
        
         | jonnycoder wrote:
         | This would be a fantastic chrome extension because Amazon would
         | never do this. It would be great to vote on the reasons why to
         | boycott, allowing the most egregious reasons at the very top.
         | 
         | I'm on the fence regarding a "likely boycott" for Ooni pizza
         | ovens, specifically the Karu 16 dual fuel. There are many
         | videos about defective or improperly installed thermocouples.
         | Ooni has some really helpful FAQ guides for fixing it on your
         | own, but I was amazed at how many videos exist about this
         | problem for an $800 pizza oven.
        
           | netsharc wrote:
           | Hah, like the ad-block extensions you'll be able to download
           | boycott-lists.
           | 
           | But as Basil Fawlty said... don't mention the war!
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | Not buying alone sounds a pretty powerful boycott thing.
         | 
         | Unluckily, so many care less than nothing, buying whatever is
         | the cheapest and loudest in praising itself with the biggest
         | lies or misdirection. There is a huge and successful market for
         | these kind of customers. Actually it overwhelms the small group
         | of conscious costumers. So manufacturers are making less and
         | less 'honest' products.
        
       | acd wrote:
       | Have your pet accept the EULA :)
        
       | andrewinardeer wrote:
       | Did they really get interrupted or did they willingly click into
       | 'Settings' and select 'Reset AD ID'?
       | 
       | Why would a device, monitor or TV or refrigerator, randomly reset
       | it's AD ID?
       | 
       | I believe this is just your stock standard X (formerly known as
       | Twitter) ragebait post.
       | 
       | Congratulations, you fell for it.
       | 
       | It's a shame ragebait is now popping up on this site.
        
         | zizee wrote:
         | I don't think the "interrupt" part of this is what I find
         | concerning.
        
         | vaindil wrote:
         | The title text is from the quoted tweet, not the one that's
         | directly linked.
         | 
         | https://twitter.com/snwy_me/status/1847389300687860062
        
         | h2odragon wrote:
         | apologies for the confusion, i could have linked the first
         | tweet but the further exploration was also interesting
        
       | scrubs wrote:
       | Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula
       | junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins
       | or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored
       | for 6months running.
        
       | scrubs wrote:
       | Related: my mac bugs the hell out of me to accept new cloud Eula
       | junk after os upgrade ... it's constantly popping up every 5 mins
       | or so and can interrupt shutdown. Out stubbornness I've ignored
       | for 6 months running.
        
       | buttercraft wrote:
       | What keyboard is that and where do I get one?
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | Topre Realforce R2, but that colorway was a limited edition and
         | it's already gone.
         | 
         | https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/products/topre-realforce-r2-...
        
           | amatecha wrote:
           | Nice, I've got the same (default colorway)! Such a good
           | keyboard! I built/bought many keyboards and finally got tired
           | of the search and decided to finally try the fabled Topre...
           | so good <3
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | I just want a somewhat trustworthy group to create a 'dumb'
       | certification.
        
       | saxonww wrote:
       | I wonder if they bought these on purpose, or if the monitors were
       | provided by their employer. That looks like an office.
       | 
       | It's hard to sympathize with someone buying one of these in 2024
       | and then being outraged that it wants to do ad tracking. 'Smart'
       | monitors are so easy to avoid right now, they are all clearly
       | marketed as such and it's still the case that premium 'dumb'
       | monitors are available in every category.
        
       | Spooky23 wrote:
       | We updated security policy at our company to prohibit use of
       | monitors that aren't specifically authorized.
       | 
       | One of our customers detected a risk in an audit - it hadn't
       | occurred to anyone. Now we log display connections and customer
       | facing folks can be terminated for violating the rules.
        
       | amatecha wrote:
       | Holy. This is so dire. I like how "smart" is always a euphemism
       | for "shitty" when it's the prefix of a technology product.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | Jury's still out on the Smartphone with a good number of
         | pros/cons.
         | 
         | I'd bet that many who are enraged by this story, have already
         | accepted numerous such agreements in the software/sites they
         | use.
        
       | kristjank wrote:
       | I am outraged by the lack of outrage over this enshittified
       | dystopia. I would like to think myself better than that but
       | things have really escalated to a point I really wish death and
       | illness upon the advertiser leeches that started and continuously
       | fueled the enshittification train till the point that we're at
       | now.
        
       | mysteria wrote:
       | A lot of vehicles also show this on the nav screen every time you
       | start the car, and many websites also display similar popups when
       | you visit. It's a disgusting practice but it certainly isn't new.
       | 
       | BTW if you want a TV that doesn't have any of these smart
       | features you can get one of those commercial displays used in
       | malls, train stations, and such. They're expensive though.
        
       | bri3d wrote:
       | For what it's worth, this is a Smart TV (ie, a streaming box)
       | that happens to also be monitor sized. I have no idea why anyone
       | would buy one of these for primary use as a computer monitor, and
       | the marketing and messaging is clear and up-front that these are
       | streaming devices running an Internet connected OS.
       | 
       | Why streaming devices need to be so ad-infested is a different
       | interesting topic, but IMO this "my monitor has an EULA" thing is
       | just engagement bait.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Agree - this _twitterbait_ is purposely omitting relevant
         | details that this is _NOT_ a traditional external display in
         | any sense of the word. I mean the category of displays on LG 's
         | website is labelled "Smart Monitors with webOS" - which should
         | be a clue right there.
         | 
         | That Samsung/LG/etc. are sulfurous pits of spyware is a
         | completely different and well understood problem (but
         | coincidentally too pedestrian to garner the desired rage
         | induced upvotes).
        
         | tealkitsune wrote:
         | LG has a page dedicated to "LG SmartMonitors", and the photo
         | shows a desk with mouse and keyboard, no mention of TV or Smart
         | TV
        
       | tlonny wrote:
       | I would love to create a simple, searchable directory of consumer
       | appliances, software and services that list all the ways you are
       | _objectively_ fucked over as a consumer (I.e. whether something
       | sells your data, requires always-on internet connectivity,
       | requires additional subscriptions to unlock full functionality,
       | etc..)
        
       | sxp wrote:
       | It appears to be this line of Smart Monitors:
       | https://www.lg.com/us/smart-monitors
       | 
       | Why the fuck would anyone buy a "smart monitor" that is hooked up
       | to a computer? Are they too incompetent to directly watch
       | Netflix/Prime/etc on the computer? What is LG's target audience
       | here?
       | 
       | I'm guessing snwy_me got the monitor from someone else and forgot
       | to factory reset it and disable WiFi.
        
         | bialpio wrote:
         | I bought something like this from Samsung. Honestly, was an
         | oversight that I only started regretting when I learned that
         | the controls to change the input source suck in a major way
         | (not possible to switch source via a provided remote, source-
         | switching buttons are very inconveniently placed at the bottom
         | of the monitor and sometimes enter full settings instead of the
         | source-switch menu). Lesson learned the hard way. And yeah, I
         | keep the wifi disabled on that thing, except when occasionally
         | checking for updates in the hopes that they fixed that shit via
         | a software update.
        
         | karmakaze wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm trying to see what the problem is here. Seems like
         | just a reason to gripe. What difference does any of this makes
         | if the monitor itself is only fed a video signal (i.e. don't
         | connect its wifi). Does the monitor fail to operate without its
         | WiFi connection or something?
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | My partner has the Samsung equivalent of these.
         | 
         | It's the only way to get a good hidpi panel in the 5K space
         | without breaking the bank. They also have DEEP integration with
         | the Samsung ecosystem like dex integration.
         | 
         | LG has been getting into this market; their target market
         | appears to be folks that want to have a miniature tv at their
         | desk in small (studio) apartments to watch Netflix, etc on
         | without fiddling with a pc. Which makes sense: in Korea and a
         | lot of other places now, 200sqft apartments are becoming more
         | common and the affordable option without splitting with others.
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | I have a similar monitor from LG. I pair it with a MacBook, and
         | there are times when the MacBook isn't connected, but I still
         | want to watch Netflix. Or even when the MacBook is connected,
         | if I'm not at my desk it's easier to control with the remote.
         | It actually sees more use as a standalone streaming device than
         | as a monitor.
         | 
         | I think smart monitors are convenient multi-purpose displays
         | and make a lot of sense for home use. Not so much for office
         | use like in the source tweet.
        
       | JayGuerette wrote:
       | Any TV that doesn't have your WiFi password is a dumb TV. No TV
       | I've owned to dated has _required_ network connectivity to work.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Yeah this is something I feel like doesn't get talked about
         | enough. I have a raspberry PI that acts as my streaming device
         | connected to my Samsung "Smart" TV and since Samsung can't get
         | on the WIFI it's effectively just a display terminal.
        
       | wcfields wrote:
       | I'll keep repeating this but I used to be a TPM for "advance
       | analytics" for a major media agency and we used this data in our
       | reporting for ad reach effectiveness.
       | 
       | From a previous comment of mine:
       | 
       | > ... my Insignia TV (best buy store brand) with fire tv built in
       | is basically unusable. Echoing a previous comment I made too,
       | about "smart tvs" and the "streaming sticks": Hey, have you ever
       | thought of why even the $149 Black Friday loss-leader no-name-
       | brand TVs all have Amazon Fire, Roku, or are now "Smart" in some
       | way? Certainly isn't because they need to incentivise you to
       | connect it to the internet so it acts as a Nielsen-esq
       | measurement device of all media you view on the screen via
       | digital fingerprints that exist in all commercial media and
       | advertisements. [1][2]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ispot.tv/
       | 
       | [2] https://www.samba.tv/
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | A particularly annoying aspect of monitor makers blurring the
       | distinction between monitors and TVs that I hit with my Samsung
       | S9 5K is that my Samsung TV remote can turn the monitor on/off
       | and the monitor remote can turn the TV on/off.
       | 
       | Did it not occur to Samsung that people might have their computer
       | in the same room as their television?
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | I don't know, I am still processing the 'remote for a monitor'
         | idea. Sounds like the 'remote for a car stereo' kind of thing.
         | Is this for people with short arms perhaps?
        
       | fortran77 wrote:
       | Many of the responses to the post on X don't seem to realize that
       | the _monitor_ is putting up this message, and they're blaming
       | "windows"
        
       | talldayo wrote:
       | HN will really say anything except "We should regulate common-
       | sense bad behavior" huh?
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | I don't know why everyone here thinks it is unconscionable for a
       | hardware vendor to block user access to content with a pop up,
       | when this is _standard practice_ in the entire software
       | industry.[1][2]
       | 
       | I've had Microsoft Teams interrupt my presentation to a CEO to
       | force me to click through some stupid dialog that a self-
       | important developer put in there at the direction of an an even
       | more self-absorbed manager.
       | 
       | "STOP TALKING NOW! You are nothing! Only our imagined legal risks
       | matter! Click here to accept. DO THIS NOW."
       | 
       | It didn't _exactly_ say that, but it may as well have. That was
       | the meaning.
       | 
       | [1] https://how-i-experience-web-today.com/
       | 
       | [2] Command line tools used in unattended workflows will hang,
       | waiting for EULA acceptance from a human who isn't there:
       | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5151034/psexec-gets-stuc...
        
       | doright wrote:
       | New video game idea: In the 21st century, with increases in
       | computational and networking power it is now inevitable that any
       | device with a screen attached can be reconfigured to show ads.
       | You fulfill this inevitability by hooking up your portable
       | advertisement control computer to every car infotainment system,
       | smartwatch, and Adafruit 16x16 RGB LED matrix in sight. Bonus
       | points (your salary) for stealth interstitial insertion.
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | Player controls a character that runs around putting ads on
         | every screen and empty surface, gameplay is periodically
         | interrupted by satirical EULA updates.
        
       | fmajid wrote:
       | I knew most Smart TVs do these shenanigans, but computer
       | monitors?
        
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