[HN Gopher] Traveling with Apple Vision Pro
___________________________________________________________________
Traveling with Apple Vision Pro
Author : tosh
Score : 306 points
Date : 2024-10-16 13:48 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (azadux.blog)
(TXT) w3m dump (azadux.blog)
| edmundsauto wrote:
| I recently took a long flight and brought my Quest device, set to
| travel mode. It worked great! Pretty much the same experience as
| this article describes.
|
| One protip, I bought a 512G flash drive and loaded it with
| content. Then I could pop the drive in and play movies off it. I
| did not want to deal with needing connectivity for DRM or other
| server checks.
|
| Highly recommend that people try this out, the next time you
| travel. It's a killer use case for VR.
| illegalsmile wrote:
| Sounds great, what did you use for audio?
| kreetx wrote:
| Would guess regular wired headphones/earplugs, as bluetooth
| has a lag which is pretty bad for gaming.
| edmundsauto wrote:
| There's a headphone port in the Quest 3. I just got a $20 set
| of wired headphones for it. I think you can connect via
| Bluetooth for wireless but I have t tried.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Aside from the Meta integration which will always be a non-
| starter for me, it would be great if Quest and other headsets
| followed Apple's design with an external battery pack. I wonder
| if there are/will ever be "dumb headsets" that are powered/ran
| by a phone.
| romanhn wrote:
| You can extend your Quest with third-party accessories to do
| this. I got a better head strap with external battery support
| + 2 batteries and charger from BoboVR. With the magnetic
| snap-in the batteries can be easily replaced mid-play, in
| essence providing infinite charge time.
| sofixa wrote:
| XREAL Air do this, the headset itself is the size of
| sunglasses, and powered by the USB C used for display in.
| dylan604 wrote:
| The very first gen of untethered headsets were powered by the
| phone. They quickly realized that the phone stack in that
| phone stole too many resources to reach the performance they
| wanted. The Quest came out "shortly" after that Carmack
| presentation.
| thecapybara wrote:
| I have a Quest 2 and a Quest 3 - both headsets allow you to
| continue using them while they're plugged into an external
| battery pack or charger, so you can absolutely do this
| already.
|
| I agree it'd be nice to have an external CPU pack for heat
| and weight reasons, but we're not quite there yet. The
| closest thing currently is wireless streaming via a PC
| running Steam VR, but that's not exactly portable.
| numpad0 wrote:
| I believe XREAL headsets are exactly that. Bulky sunglasses
| form factor, Pepper's Ghost optical setup, dumb display by
| itself + 3DoF for comfort with an adapter, takes DP Alt
| input.
| blensor wrote:
| Pretty much yes, there are already hints that this will be
| coming but for the current experience what would be the
| benefit Quest with battery included is already the same
| weight as the Vision Pro without the battery. So just add an
| external battery bank via USB and you have the same weight
| experience
| talldayo wrote:
| Yeah, as a first-gen Quest owner I got no idea what they're
| going on about. My favorite feature is how light it feels
| with the battery included - I can use it comfortably with
| _no wires_ for 2-3 hours, then take it off and let it
| recharge. If I need more runtime, I plug it in.
|
| If Meta made new versions of the Quest without the battery
| built in I think I'd actively avoid it.
| agar wrote:
| Do you know that you can create a Meta account with a one-
| time email address, fake name, and no connection to any other
| Meta service but the Quest platform? That may still be more
| connection to Meta than you prefer, but to many "Meta
| integration" implies an automatic linkage to Facebook or
| Instagram.
|
| They only recommend your real name in case you need to
| recover your account.
|
| From
| https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/accounts/account-
| se...:
|
| ---- To create a Meta account using your email address, you
| will need to provide:
|
| Email: You can only create one Meta account per email
| address.
|
| First and last name: We recommend using your real name in
| case you need to recover your account or manage your store
| purchases.
|
| Birthday: You need to be at least 13 years old (or the
| applicable age in your region) to set up and manage your own
| Meta account. If you are between 10 and 12 (or the applicable
| age in your region), then you need a Meta account that's
| managed by a parent or guardian.
|
| Password: This must be at least 8 characters. Avoid passwords
| that someone could easily guess.
| piyuv wrote:
| How did you acquire the content? Buy the blu-rays and rip them?
| calf wrote:
| I have a Quest One collecting dust, but now I'm thinking it
| might be fun to bring it on a long flight if I know the onboard
| entertainment will be really lacking--some airlines I've been
| on have really reduced the TV/movie selections for some reason.
| ghaff wrote:
| An iPad works pretty well for in-flight entertainment like
| video or reading. Though I'll just bring a Kindle on a
| shorter trip where I sort of know I won't be watching video.
| willemlaurentz wrote:
| Agree with author that the plane seems to be the only place where
| it is socially acceptable to wear the skimask.
|
| My wife still makes fun of me when I'm working at home with
| Vision Pro - I wouldn't wear it out in public. See:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41836437
| throwaway48476 wrote:
| I saw someone parked in their car wearing one.
| ljf wrote:
| It is also one of the few public places to 'safely' do it.
|
| Would you feel comfortable wearing one and limiting your
| awareness of your surroundings on a public bus? In a coffee
| shop? Sitting outside a coffee shop? In a park? In a pub?
|
| And also your answers may be yes if you are male, but I can
| imagine in the current world we live in a lot of women would
| feel potentially at risk if they were wearing these in public.
| tesch1 wrote:
| Train travel is great with one too.
| prmoustache wrote:
| You have a whole screen (large windows) at the side of your
| seat with landscape and stuff to actually enjoy on a train.
| dagmx wrote:
| You assume that most train rides offer a good view, and a
| view that the commuter would find novel.
|
| If I'm taking a commuter train every day , my view is not
| something great. Most of the time it's rundown houses,
| tunnels or fences. This has been my experience in the UK,
| US and Canada.
|
| If I'm taking a more long distance train, you assume I'm
| sat on the side with a view. Ever taken a mountain train?
| One side just gets rocks wizzing by.
|
| You also assume they're travelling in weather and a time
| of day that affords them a good view. Traveling at night?
| Traveling in misty weather?
|
| And all that aside, you assume they'd prefer to look at
| the same things you do.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I guess that is based on experience as I have commuted in
| the swiss alps for years by train. There is even a tunnel
| when you are comming from Freiburg in direction of
| Lausanne/Geneva where you can count down the exact moment
| the tourists will let escape a collective woooaaaaah once
| the train exit the tunnel to a majestic view of Lake of
| Geneva with the alps and the Mont Blanc in the
| background.
|
| There are some views you never get tired of looking at,
| especially as seasons, weather, clouds and time of the
| day makes it an ever changing postcard.
|
| All in all in most of europe the trains usually offer
| nice views and I often find myself daydreaming about
| climbing that dirt trail on the left with my bike, riding
| my motorbike on that twisty road on the right side a few
| minutes later and what kind of life was it living 500
| years ago in the old castle I can see here.
| dagmx wrote:
| This feels like you're judging others for not being
| fortunate enough to live in the same place you do. It's a
| bit narcissistic of a viewpoint imho.
| pests wrote:
| At the same time, I feel you are being dismissive of the
| beauty around us every day. I used to bus the same route
| every day for months; and every day I would look out my
| window and just take it in. People watching, seeing
| buildings grow under construction, the changing of the
| trees. The sunset is always beautiful, imo.
|
| Why must we always escape?
| dagmx wrote:
| Because not everyone has the same view afforded to them
| at all times?
|
| Again, you are fortunate to have a view that you enjoy.
| That doesn't extend to others, unless you believe that
| there are no other situations on the planet other than
| your own.
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Aren't you escaping too? You could be alone with your
| thoughts, but instead you are piping inconsequential
| outside details into your brain.
| FredPret wrote:
| I think he's just saying he has a nice train ride.
| dagmx wrote:
| No, he's telling other people to also act like he does.
|
| It's great he can enjoy it but it's self centered to tell
| others to do the same.
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| This is one of the most tone-deaf moments I have ever
| seen in an internet discussion. The guy lives in the
| closest thing we have to heaven on earth, a bountiful
| paradise of gorgeous beauty admired from afar the world
| over, and says to those of us living in crap-world that
| we should be grateful for what nature gives us.
| CPLX wrote:
| I mean you literally live in Switzerland. It's the most
| photogenic place on the planet.
|
| Some of us live in places like Baltimore, or Staten
| Island.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I am not living there anymore and I still like to take
| the train and enjoy looking at the window. Sometimes it
| is just looking at people doing stuff.
|
| You might find that real life is boring, I find that most
| tv shows and movies are super predictable, following the
| very similar scenaristic mechanics and aren't more
| entertaining. Obviously some are also very nice, but
| these are the ones you would like to watch comfortably on
| your sofa or in a theater, not in a train or plane
| anyway.
| richardw wrote:
| Maybe record that amazing commute so the less fortunate
| train travelers can play it on an Apple Vision Pro? Bit
| of a rubbish arrival surprise at work, but we can solve
| that next!
| brailsafe wrote:
| Still, are those temporary inconveniences so dull that
| you can't read a book or something? Why cling to a
| desperate need for hyper stimulation when you could just
| relax with a newspaper or book. Oh jeez, it's misty out,
| and I forgot my ridiculous VR goggles, guess I'll just be
| sad :(
| dagmx wrote:
| Because other people might enjoy things other than books
| or newspapers?
|
| Seriously, is everyone on here so narcissistic that they
| can't imagine other people want other things?
| jedberg wrote:
| When I take trains in Europe, I tend to look out the
| window, and they often have nice views.
|
| When I take trains in the USA, I usually look out for a
| few seconds every couple of minutes, because it's mostly
| the same -- lower-middle class housing or warehouses if
| we're in a city, or ugly terrain outside of a city.
| erickhill wrote:
| You'd enjoy the Amtrak from Seattle to Vancouver along
| the water at sunset. You can buy a glass of wine and
| enjoy the majestic views.
| samatman wrote:
| Having ridden both routes, the Amtrak from Denver to Reno
| has a spectacularly better view than the Eurostar from
| London to Brussels. The food is also better.
|
| These kinds of broad comparisons are utterly useless.
| Continents are much too large for that kind of thing to
| be anything resembling accurate.
| Arrath wrote:
| I have to say, taking the night train from Moscow to St
| Petersburg was eye opening.
|
| I went from modern metropolis of skyscrapers and tower
| cranes to run down rusty industrial facilities that
| wouldn't look out of place in a STALKER game to sod
| roofed villages that look as they might have when
| Napoleon was making an ill fated expedition. Then of
| course a vast expanse of nothing at all.
| threeseed wrote:
| That gets old after about an hour.
|
| Especially if you're travelling through cityscapes that
| aren't that appealing.
| cchi_co wrote:
| It's nice to have something to switch to
| baxtr wrote:
| Can you elaborate on the working part?
|
| I tested the device in an Apple Store and was blown away by the
| experience. Such an amazing tool to explore, enjoy and relax.
|
| The work part though? I had the same feeling as with the iPad
| early on. I need a keyboard and a mouse to be productive.
| nine_k wrote:
| I don't see why won't you be able use a keyboard if you can
| touch-type. I can imagine that a CAD or an animation app
| could make great use of the 3D views, a mouse for precise
| coordinate input, and a keyboard for numeric and text input.
|
| I wonder how soon will Maya or CATIA offer good enough
| integration. Maybe they already offer it at the high end.
| theturtletalks wrote:
| Apple Vision Pro can recognize a Macbook and turn that screen
| into the "theater" screen so you can continue using your
| Macbook as is with the keyboard and trackpad.
|
| There was even a Youtuber that got annoyed of the black
| screen on the Macbook when doing this that he removed the
| screen from a Macbook altogether[0].
|
| 0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUa_pPUbpGQ
| Terretta wrote:
| > _The work part though? I had the same feeling as with the
| iPad early on. I need a keyboard and a mouse to be
| productive._
|
| Both my iPad Pro and my Vision Pro have a keyboard and
| trackpad:
|
| - The iPad Pro of course uses the excellent Magic Keyboard.
|
| - The Vision Pro uses an Apple keyboard w/o numpad side by
| side with the Magic Trackpad, in a custom tray to hold both.
| (Make sure that your carryon's front pocket can hold the full
| tray.)
|
| For sure if I thought I could only do work on a MacBook not
| an iPad Pro (what most people seem to think, insisting iPad
| is a consumption device), then I definitely couldn't work on
| a Vision Pro.
|
| But once you've figured out how to code (e.g. VSCode using
| blink code, or Koder, Working Copy, Textastic, etc.), do
| graphic design (e.g. Affinity suite), or run Office on an
| iPad (Teams, Outlook, Word, PowerPoint, Excel), the Vision
| Pro does those too but with "all the app windows at once"
| (ofc, iPad Pro 13" makes excellent use of Stage Manager for
| window groups).
|
| All that said, I haven't felt a burden to pull AVP out on the
| plane.
|
| iPad Pro 13" HDR with AirPods Pro USB-C using Spatial Audio
| that anchors to your iPad screen seem more than enough.
| Especially since you can share audio with a seat mate who
| also has AirPods, and both watch the same movie together.
|
| Not often talked about: for doing real work, do consider a
| fresh glasses prescription and the Zeiss add-ins. To keep
| windows rectangular instead of trapezoid, insist you're under
| 40 regardless of your age, otherwise Zeiss do a stealth
| "progressive" that warps window sizes.
| cheschire wrote:
| I had no idea that's what Spatial Audio meant. I thought
| naively that it was just another marketing jargon for
| surround sound.
|
| Now I wish I had gone for the bose QC ultra buds instead of
| the QC II buds.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| It's really unfortunate that they decided for an ios variant
| instead of a macos variant for the vision pro. Even if the
| power of macos (a real filesystem and the software library)
| is hidden behind a 'expert mode' or some shit.
|
| I want to replace my macbook, I don't want to replace my
| ipad. I can't work properly on my ipad unless i'm using it as
| a dumb terminal. And at the price point of a macbook that's
| what it should be replacing.
|
| People may point out that i can use it to mirror my macbook
| screen.. but now i'm paying 2x to replace a screen. I think
| this is a primary misplay in he vision pro strategy.
|
| Give me a windowing system that lets me place windows, not in
| a little box that is essentially a virtual monitor, but
| wherever i want in my immediate vicinity. Let me put my
| goland/ide window front and center, let me put a terminal to
| the left, and my music player above.. whatever.
|
| I'd take a vision pro with much of the compute hardware
| stripped out but that I can tether to a macbook via
| usbc/thunderbolt as well.. just not an ipad strapped to my
| face.
| cchi_co wrote:
| The Vision Pro might be brilliant for consuming content, but
| if you're trying to get work done...
| cchi_co wrote:
| At least you've got some tech freedom at home
| latexr wrote:
| > Be it by train or by plane, it offers an unparalleled
| opportunity to selectively tune out your environment and sink
| into an engaging activity like watching a movie or just working
| on your laptop.
|
| The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that the
| world would be better if we tuned out our environment less.
|
| > But damn, based on how well it all works now, you can just tell
| by the 4th or 5th generation, Apple Vision Pro will be on the
| face of every frequent flyer.
|
| If it even gets that far. I'd almost be willing to take that bet,
| but 5 generations for this device could mean more than a decade
| so I don't think any of us can say for sure.
|
| All that said, I haven't read the full review yet and I doubt
| it'll do anything to convince me, but still I appreciate you
| writing it up and putting it out there. From what I've read so
| far it looks well thought out and it clearly took some effort, so
| kudos.
| 39896880 wrote:
| >The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that
| the world would be better if we tuned out of our environment
| less.
|
| Depends on what environment that is. I mean, is there some
| value in hearing an ambulance siren at full volume while I'm
| walking down the street? Or the sound of people trying to get
| my attention to hand me some flyer? Or the sound of the BART?
| realreality wrote:
| Yes, it would be wonderful to be able to tune out the
| wretched poor people. Maybe a future headset will include a
| forcefield to actively repel potential muggers or oncoming
| vehicles.
| adamc wrote:
| I think there might be some psychological benefit just in
| experiencing life and being in the moment, even though it
| isn't all pleasant.
|
| I listen to books or music during a lot of my daily walks,
| but I've noticed that when I don't, I sometimes experience
| life differently.
| chasd00 wrote:
| i agree but i think what the parent and other folks up
| thread are saying makes sense. It's nice to have the choice
| to tune in or tune out but no one wants that decision made
| for them. No one wants to be forced to engage with 100+
| random people in very close proximity with really no option
| to standup let alone leave like on a plane. Another way to
| look at it is imagine the person to your left and to your
| right are super fans of the political party opposite to
| yours. That wouldn't be very fun unless you like to fight
| for 3hrs.
| luismedel wrote:
| I like to be able to ear any siren around me, to be honest.
| They're the way they are for a reason.
| renewiltord wrote:
| This is kind of why I like living near highways and train
| tracks. Most people live in suburbs and they don't hear the
| noise of the city. They just miss out on so much
| environment. Sadly, my wife hates this (she is not in tune
| with her environment) and so we moved from a place where
| there were crazy people screaming to a place which is
| relatively quiet.
|
| Sometimes I'm at home and there aren't any sirens or bells
| or people screaming and I just think about how out of touch
| we are with the environment.
|
| This has spread to everyone. Paul Graham has lost his
| connection to the environment and instead writes about
| silence. What a fool! If only he was more in touch with his
| environment.
| chasd00 wrote:
| > Sometimes I'm at home and there aren't any sirens or
| bells or people screaming and I just think about how out
| of touch we are with the environment.
|
| at least in the suburbs you can engage with and
| experience the leaf blowers.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Anecdotally, I heard _way_ more leaf blowers while living
| in the city than in the suburbs. Lots of times in the
| suburbs people just leave them on the ground. But it gets
| to be a gross mess pretty fast in an urban environment so
| they are cleaned up relentlessly through the fall.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| I genuinely can't tell if this comment is serious or
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law .
| 39896880 wrote:
| They are designed to be heard at a distance and through
| automobile glass, not walking beside it on a sidewalk.
| Besides, the siren is not a meaningful signal to me: I'm
| not on the road.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| "at full volume"
| mtalantikite wrote:
| I generally agree with this sentiment of people being too
| tethered to technology and not paying attention to the world
| around them, but I don't see a problem with it on a flight.
| You're generally going to be seated in one place for hours at a
| time. It's much more infuriating to be walking out of the
| subway here in NYC and people are just in zombie mode walking
| up the stairs slowly while staring at their phones. Or down
| busy streets. Or driving in their cars.
|
| I coincidentally demoed the Vision Pro this past weekend and
| expected to hate it, but was pretty impressed with it. I
| definitely don't want people walking around NYC with it
| strapped to their faces, but on a long plane or train ride I
| can see it being pretty nice.
| bbor wrote:
| Well put! Though I would argue that the issue being discussed
| is not short-term distraction in highly dangerous situations
| like driving a car or sharing a sidewalk in NYC, but rather
| the long-term psychological effects of filling every spare
| moment with entertainment. Ever since being forced to bus an
| hour+ to high school (sans smart phone! Can you imagine?!)
| I've learned to appreciate what long stretches of
| contemplation can do for a person. Or, at least, do for me.
|
| Of course, my attention span typically maxes out around 2h
| unless I'm in a particularly thoughtful place in life, such
| as my bus ride to a new city after undergrad graduation, or
| the flight home after a big family event. And, of course,
| being in the window seat is a must -- you'd have to be
| something of a zen master to peacefully "raw-dog" a flight by
| just starting at the seat in front of you!
|
| Rant aside, I absolutely agree that being stuck in place for
| hours at a time is good reason to want _some_ form of
| entertainment, and this is arguably the perfect application
| for VR. Being stuck on a long bus /train/plane without
| entertainment can feel downright claustrophobic, and it's not
| like there's any communication with others anyway. Other than
| the nice flight attendants, which we still have, for some
| weird reason -- I thought it was a nice touch to clarify that
| talking to them with the headset for more than a phrase or
| two feels disrespectful.
| latexr wrote:
| > Though I would argue that the issue being discussed is
| not short-term distraction in highly dangerous situations
| like driving a car or sharing a sidewalk in NYC, but rather
| the long-term psychological effects of filling every spare
| moment with entertainment.
|
| Correct. And I also had in mind how those individual
| psychological effects affect our interactions with the rest
| of reality and other living beings, which collectively
| shapes society.
|
| I'm reminded of something I read years ago (I don't recall
| the source at all and am likely adding details) which
| argued that US politics were less aggressively divisive in
| the past because politicians from both sides regularly saw
| each other and spent time together, meaning they could form
| more empathy and see the opposition as real human beings
| and not caricatures. As they spend less time together, it's
| easier to fall into the trap of seeing the other side as a
| "them" unworthy of respect.
|
| > I thought it was a nice touch to clarify that talking to
| them with the headset for more than a phrase or two feels
| disrespectful.
|
| Agreed.
| jon-wood wrote:
| > Other than the nice flight attendants, which we still
| have, for some weird reason
|
| They're trained to get everyone off the plane in under 90
| seconds in case of emergency. The handing out of drinks and
| snacks is a pleasant side effect of their presence.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| > but rather the long-term psychological effects of filling
| every spare moment with entertainment.
|
| Oh, for sure. I mean I'm in my 40s and have never owned a
| TV and have spent every morning with my meditation practice
| for a very long time. Even on 14+ hour flights I tend to
| just sit there, maybe listening to music a bit, but largely
| doing my meditation practice. I'm totally on board with
| people being present in their environments.
|
| But of all the places for someone to use something like the
| Vision Pro, an airplane seems totally reasonable to me. I'm
| much more concerned with people needing to scroll TikTok
| while on the escalator at Whole Foods and what that says
| about society than someone watching a movie on an
| international flight!
| nordsieck wrote:
| > The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that
| the world would be better if we tuned out our environment less.
|
| That may or may not be true in general, but air travel is one
| of the most oppressive environments people regularly find
| themselves in. Being in an extremely crowded environment with
| very little personal space is psychologically uncomfortable for
| a lot of people. And it's basically not possible to escape that
| environment until the plane lands, which is typically hours of
| time. If it's OK to tune the world out anywhere, it's got to be
| in an airplane.
| latexr wrote:
| > That may or may not be true in general, but air travel is
| one of the most oppressive environments people regularly find
| themselves in.
|
| What do you think is going to happen if, as the author
| predicts, "Apple Vision Pro will be on the face of every
| frequent flyer"?
|
| My prediction is that the experience would get even shittier.
| Since everyone would be tuned out, there'd be even less
| reason for the airline to care.
| tesch1 wrote:
| My prediction is that airlines will start offering VR
| headsets much like they added seatback screens.
| latexr wrote:
| Lovely, just what we need: cheap devices with a motion-
| sickness-inducing laggy passthrough, poor resolution
| screens (when they work at all), covered in other
| people's face grease.
| tesch1 wrote:
| Solution: bring your own!
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| Devices owned by someone else pointing a camera at your
| eyes and doing eye tracking...
| makeitdouble wrote:
| I'd bet on them removing screens and not replacing them,
| potentially also getting rid of the headphone jack.
|
| Perhaps they extend the charging ports some airlines are
| offering, with a bit more juice than a phone's battery to
| let people use their device for a bit longer.
| chasd00 wrote:
| That's a really interesting idea. Do planes have access
| to Starlink now? I could see a market for passengers to
| purchase a vr headset and decent inet connection on a
| flight. It would be tough to keep the headsets in good
| shape and clean though...
| nordsieck wrote:
| > Do planes have access to Starlink now?
|
| There's a number of airlines that have signed contracts,
| like United. I think it'll take a while for everything to
| be completely rolled out.
| asciimov wrote:
| Sounds like a lovely way to get pink eye.
| nordsieck wrote:
| > My prediction is that the experience would get even
| shittier. Since everyone would be tuned out, there'd be
| even less reason for the airline to care.
|
| What can the airlines do to make it worse? I suppose they
| could cut out soda and pretzels. And get rid of the HUD on
| the back of the chair. But I don't think most people care
| that much about that stuff, especially since a lot of
| chairs have power outlets on them, even in coach.
|
| IMO, the thing that people really care about is the amount
| of space they have access to - both width and depth. And
| I'm not sure how much more airlines can realistically
| squeeze that.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| > That may or may not be true in general, but air travel is
| one of the most oppressive environments people regularly find
| themselves in.
|
| Most people don't regularly travel by plane. This is a very
| "1%" (as shorthand for a privileged minority of people
| globally, not literally exactly 1% of the population)
| problem.
| aaomidi wrote:
| > Most people don't regularly travel by plane. This is a
| very "1%" problem.
|
| Except, they do in a country like the US that has massive
| distances between cities.
| tsimionescu wrote:
| Even in the US, _most_ people (50+% of the population)
| certainly doesn 't _regularly_ (say, more than once a
| decade) travel by plane.
| renewiltord wrote:
| 49% in the last year according to this
| https://www.airlines.org/dataset/air-travelers-in-
| america-an...
|
| Statista survey pre-pandemic says majority fly every year
| https://www.statista.com/statistics/316365/air-travel-
| freque...
|
| Americans fly quite often.
| tsimionescu wrote:
| Oh wow, I didn't imagine it's this many people. I stand
| corrected, thank you for looking up the numbers.
| dwaite wrote:
| Families tend to get spread out and vacations tend to be
| very short. There is a strong encouragement to meet for
| recognized holidays, so these are by far the busiest
| times at airports.
|
| Last year, the prediction was 4.7 million people in the
| US traveling by plane over the thanksgiving holiday,
| which demolishes the 1% comment immediately.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| 4.7m is ~0.05% of ~8bn
| aaomidi wrote:
| If you look at everything in the larger group of world
| population you'll end up with a lot of useless info.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| You are greatly underestimating how common it is for
| Americans to travel by plane. Almost half of Americans
| fly at least once a year. It is sufficiently inexpensive
| that almost everyone can readily afford to.
| diggan wrote:
| I think that's supposed to be
|
| > Except, they do in a country like the US that don't
| have any other suitable alternatives
| rootusrootus wrote:
| A little bit of both, and they are related. Trains are a
| tough sell because they aren't competitive for most
| travel. Even at 300kph, they're only good for local-ish
| travel (by that, I mean up to perhaps as much as 1000km).
| Would be great for Portland to Seattle, or Portland to
| LA, but if you're going out of region (which is extremely
| common), an airplane will be way faster and almost
| certainly cheaper too.
|
| I'd _love_ a moderately fast train, say 200kph, between
| cities like Portland and Seattle. That 's a _great_ use
| case.
|
| But as a nationwide network, there won't ever be a
| suitable rail alternative, unless it gets subsidized.
| Amtrak is already stupidly expensive for what you get.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| They didn't say most, they said people.
| DrScientist wrote:
| 1% of 300 million is still a 3 mill market size in the US
| alone.
| MPSimmons wrote:
| I don't think it's a 1% problem, but it's a 40% problem:
|
| https://www.airlines.org/new-survey-nearly-90-percent-of-
| ame...
|
| 44% of Americans flew commercially in 2022.
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| There's a whole world outside of the USA.
| petesergeant wrote:
| Sure, but 11% of the global population fly in a year
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095937
| 802...
| dkdbejwi383 wrote:
| And how many of those are regular vs. irregular trips?
|
| Probably not enough to make the statement that flying is
| a situation people find themselves in regularly.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Yeah, but "Rest of World cannot afford luxury travel" is
| not a notable fact. The US is rich. Americans are rich.
| For many things, the US is the only market where it's
| feasible. A self-driving car is useless in India (1/6 of
| all people), for instance. Labour costs are too low.
|
| It's clear the Vision Pro didn't find its market but I
| don't think it's an air travel thing.
| talldayo wrote:
| 80% of _those_ people are flying economy class and
| already get along fine with earbuds and their phone. The
| remaining 20% that can afford something like Vision Pro
| almost certainly will choose not to.
| macintux wrote:
| People used to get along fine with a magazine or book;
| that doesn't mean they weren't ready for something
| better.
| talldayo wrote:
| _If_ those uncertain people decide they want to distract
| themselves with VR, do you think they 'll buy the $350
| headset or the $3,500 one?
|
| I just don't see the market Apple envisions
| materializing. I'd expect 20 people to be using a Quest
| in economy before you see 2 people using a Vision Pro in
| business.
| PierceJoy wrote:
| The author specifically says he believes people will be
| using the 4th or 5th iteration of the Vision Pro for this
| purpose. Why are you comparing prices of devices that
| won't exist for another 5+ years?
| talldayo wrote:
| Because you and I both know Apple will never be price-
| competitive with the commodity segment. They are a luxury
| brand that relies on luxury margins, so I want to know
| why their business model will succeed.
|
| If plane seating is anything to go by, most people don't
| _want_ a luxury experience but a practical and cheap one
| instead. Most seats aren 't reserved for premium
| passengers because they are a minority, maybe a
| profitable audience but not at all the primary one.
| ponector wrote:
| >The most recent such poll was conducted online between
| January 9-31, 2023, in which Ipsos interviewed roughly
| 11,000 adults age 18+ from the continental U.S., Alaska,
| and Hawaii.
|
| Same poll can result with statement "100% of Americans
| use internet."
| stnmtn wrote:
| Well, about 94% of the American population use the
| internet so it's a good base by which to conduct reliable
| surveys.
| ghaff wrote:
| And a lot of those probably flew once to visit family at
| the holidays.
| mat_epice wrote:
| Google's AI tool says that 20-25% of the world's population
| flies at least three times a year. Not a good source, but
| at least a surprising statistic if true.
|
| Some hard data says that 12% of US flyers take 66% of
| flights [1]. Those are all likely very frequent fliers, and
| is much more than 1%.
|
| 1. https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-
| travel/2021/03/31...
| goalieca wrote:
| > most oppressive environments people regularly find
| themselves in.
|
| It's boring but not oppressive. It's okay to let the mind
| wander without completely disconnecting yourself from
| reality.
| aaomidi wrote:
| This completely depends on the person. The environment of a
| plane (dry humid air, loud engine humming, babies crying
| etc) is oppressive to a lot of people, even more so if
| you're neuro-atypical.
| blargey wrote:
| I hope you repeat that lecture to everyone wearing an
| eyemask trying to sleep, or wearing heaphones for their in-
| flight movie (god forbid they brought noise-cancelling
| ones!)
| michaelt wrote:
| The flying experience is oppressive in the sense of being a
| constricting, heavy-handed and overbearing environment,
| indifferent to your inconvenience or discomfort.
|
| Where else can you get a full body cavity search, be denied
| water, be delayed by several hours without so much as an
| apology, be nickle-and-dimed with overpriced shitty food
| and $5 fees for a cab to drop you off, and have your
| luggage smashed up, all under one roof?
|
| Of course, I'm not sure the Apple Vision Pro can do much to
| improve on the situation.
| Staross wrote:
| >And it's basically not possible to escape that environment
| until the plane lands
|
| Ever heard of closing your eyes ?
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| For five hours?
|
| It takes a _lot_ of meditation practice to get up to
| "entire plane flight" level.
| bentcorner wrote:
| Weirdly enough I love being on a plane (and airports).
| There's something psychologically freeing about them that I
| feel whenever I fly. I look forward to flying so much. And
| it's not like I'm flying first class or anything - I fly
| economy every time.
|
| Maybe if I flew more frequently I'd grow to dislike it (I fly
| maybe once a year), but honestly airports and flying are my
| favorite part of a trip (yes, I like them more than any
| possible destination). TBF I haven't flown to anywhere
| particularly exciting but I fail to imagine any place
| matching the pleasure of an airport + flight. After writing
| this it sounds ridiculous but I'm 100% serious - I can't
| quite explain why I enjoy it so much.
| chasd00 wrote:
| I don't like flying that much but airports are an
| interesting place. I like people watching and just the
| spectacle of it all.
|
| There's some funny tweets about airports like: "The airport
| is a lawless place, want to get drunk at 7AM? Go right
| ahead. Tired? Just sleep on the floor. Chips cost $15".
|
| edit: came back to post this, i definitely get an odd
| feeling of liberation once i'm at an airport. I travel
| sometimes for work and once i get in to the airport waiting
| to board I feel like work and every day life ceases for a
| time and i'm free to do whatever. It's odd because i'm
| trapped in this building with hundreds if not thousands of
| other people waiting to get on a pressurized metal tube
| blasting through the sky at hundreds of miles/hr. Nothing
| very liberating about that but for some reason being in the
| airport feels that way to me.
| bentcorner wrote:
| > I travel sometimes for work and once i get in to the
| airport waiting to board I feel like work and every day
| life ceases for a time and i'm free to do whatever.
|
| Yes, this is very much how I feel. 0 responsibilities and
| there's nothing I can actually accomplish during my time
| there. I just sit there reading a book or something, just
| waiting.
| floren wrote:
| Can't stand airports, because from the instant you
| arrive, the success of your trip is now basically out of
| your hands but also incredibly precarious.
|
| Maybe there's some ticketing snafu and it takes an hour
| just to drop your checked bag (sanctimonious carry-on
| fliers hold your posts like you hold the seventeen bags
| you try to drag on the plane)
|
| Maybe security is insanely backed up or just run by
| incompetents, like the time at SFO where it took them 30
| minutes to screen the 10 people in front of me.
|
| Then once you get past security, a whole new list of
| potential problems comes up:
|
| Maybe the incoming flight is delayed, possibly delayed so
| much you're going to miss your connection.
|
| Maybe you'll board but the plane will be broken because
| the airlines don't believe in preventive maintenance, and
| you'll have to deplane again.
|
| Maybe you'll board but due to various circumstances in
| airport operations you spend 3 hours sitting on the
| tarmac while the airplane gets increasingly hot and your
| toddler gets increasingly fussy.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Do you have to deal with the TSA where you fly? I take
| psychological damage any time I have to deal with them.
| bentcorner wrote:
| I do - I like to arrive early at the airport so it's just
| a long line to me. Unpacking my stuff to get xrayed is
| indeed a hassle but it's not a big deal to me.
| ghaff wrote:
| I have TSA pre-check and while you still have lines now
| and then 5 to 10 minutes is pretty normal when I leave
| for a flight.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| Waiting in line is not the problem.
| arethuza wrote:
| I actually don't mind the flying bit too much but I
| absolutely _hate_ airports...
| croes wrote:
| In a crowded plane you don't want to sit next to someone who
| tuned out their environment
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Why not? It sounds pretty good to me.
| croes wrote:
| Tuned out, plays something like fruit ninja and makes a
| hard cut to the right ... in your face
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > people regularly find themselves in.
|
| To me this is the most intriguing part of it all.
|
| I understand tech reviewers and journalists raving about
| having something to do on planes, as they probably spend an
| awful lot of time there. Then perhaps sales people also
| flighting on company's dime.
|
| But regular people don't spend much time on planes, and many
| of them don't need it to be an entertaining or efficient
| time, they can just spleep if the flight is long enough (I
| can't imagine lugging along a luggage the size of the Vision
| Pro for just a 2 hour flight)
|
| In particular the plane staff won't let you tune completely
| out if you're awake: the whole safety sequence , take off and
| landing, turbulences, the in-flight meal, all the guidance
| for international flights, your neighbours when you've pulled
| the middle seat etc.
| throw4950sh06 wrote:
| Many regular people bought tablets, expensive noise
| canceling headphones and other hardware with the express
| purpose of using it on a flight 2-6 times (1-3 round trips)
| a year. Of course, it gets used outside of a plane too -
| but that applies to VR gear just as well.
|
| If they can get the price below $1500, I'm sure many
| regular people will buy it even if they fly less than 10
| times a year.
| RandomThoughts3 wrote:
| > And it's basically not possible to escape that environment
| until the plane lands
|
| You can buy a business class ticket. I will hasard that the
| overlap between people who can afford to buy a 3000$ VR
| headset and people who can fly business is pretty much total.
| skhr0680 wrote:
| > psychologically uncomfortable
|
| My brother in god, you can travel from any point of the Earth
| to any other point on the Earth in less than a week. At what
| point are modern people going to "deal with it"?
| nordsieck wrote:
| > My brother in god, you can travel from any point of the
| Earth to any other point on the Earth in less than a week.
| At what point are modern people going to "deal with it"?
|
| Clearly people do "deal with it" since lots of people fly
| all the time. But that doesn't mean that the experience
| can't be improved.
| ghaff wrote:
| But the improvement has almost nothing to do with
| entertainment options. It's about space and comfort. To a
| lesser degree cabin service but that quite a way down the
| list.
| moolcool wrote:
| > air travel is one of the most oppressive environments
| people regularly find themselves in
|
| How much of this would be solved by VR though? To me the
| unpleasantness of flying mostly comes down to physical
| discomfort. The seats are cramped, the air is dry, the food
| isn't great, the bathroom situation is uncomfortable, and you
| can't really walk around. VR would visually transport you
| somewhere else, but physically, you're still very much on a
| plane.
| countvonbalzac wrote:
| There's a reason people watch movies on planes - it's to
| distract you from the uncomfortable environment you're in.
| VR is more immersive than a 2D screen so it's more
| distracting.
| threetonesun wrote:
| As someone with generalized anxiety I hate almost every
| part of flying from the point at which I leave the house
| until I arrive, but none of what you mentioned bothers me
| terribly.
|
| I'd be curious to try a device like this and see if it
| helps. I usually just use noise cancelling headphones and
| play a game or watch movies, which isn't too different from
| removing myself into VR, but I'm also aware that sometimes
| completely removing my sense of my surroundings can be more
| unnerving.
| kccqzy wrote:
| > Being in an extremely crowded environment with very little
| personal space
|
| I don't disagree with you but I can tell you don't take the
| NYC subway or Paris metro or the London Underground with any
| regularity. If you think an airplane is "extremely crowded"
| then you have no words to describe actual mass transit.
| ghaff wrote:
| And then the person next to you needs to jostle you because
| they need to use the bathroom.
| keiferski wrote:
| > The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that
| the world would be better if we tuned out our environment less.
|
| Agreed 100%. Apologies for linking to my own essay, but I think
| this can be more generally stated as a difference between
| "isolated" and "integrated" arts. A device like the Vision Pro
| (and most tech devices, for that matter) is pushing society
| further and further into isolated chambers, and thus further
| incentivizing media and creators to focus on creating isolated
| aesthetic experiences, not ones that are integrated with the
| environment.
|
| This is such a baseline unquestioned assumption that we have
| about the structure of the tech economy, that to think a
| company like Apple would make a device that brings people
| together in the real world seems absurd.
|
| I wrote a bit more about this idea here:
| https://onthearts.com/p/modern-culture-is-too-escapist-part
| bbor wrote:
| Thanks for sharing, I for one found it relevant! I've always
| found it somewhat monstrous how much art is in museum
| archives -- surely "showcasing stuff behind glass" is
| something our civilization can manage??
|
| I'd quibble that what you're really pointing to here is
| capitalism, though. Architecture isn't monotonous because of
| our cultural attitude towards architects/Architecture, it's
| monotonous because capitalists build most buildings, and
| they're predictably interested in perceived efficiency above
| all else. There's good reason to argue that beautiful
| surroundings augment worker productivity so it's not even a
| clean tradeoff, but in practice, only the richest companies
| and universities end up taking that risk with beautiful
| structures[1][2][3] and/or sculptures/fountains/gardens/etc.
| Obviously, the same dynamic applies to the exclusivity of
| contemporary art galleries and private collections.
|
| In Apple's(/"tech"'s) defense, I think they'd absolutely love
| to sell integrative products whenever possible. The Nintendo
| Switch was originally marketed[4] as such, and despite being
| a bit goofy, I imagine it helped sell a lot of units. That's
| why Apple spent ungodly amounts of money trying to make real
| AR work before compromising with "passthrough" -- they know
| that people are social creatures, and that a huge driver of
| their sales is perceived social value.[5] Again: the problem
| is the system of incentives, not individual bad actors.
|
| [1] Google's newest 'Bayview' campus:
| https://blog.google/inside-google/life-at-google/bay-view-
| ca...
|
| [2] Huawei 'Ox Horn' campus: https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/co
| mments/1fuo1tt/huawei_has_bu...
|
| [3] Vanderbilt University's main campus:
| https://admissions.vanderbilt.edu/wp-
| content/uploads/sites/4...
|
| [4] "The rooftop party"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzJdYXk6tjA
|
| [5] The iPhone's status among teens:
| https://www.phonearena.com/news/Heres-why-iPhones-are-so-
| pop...
| keiferski wrote:
| I agree that the fundamental issue may simply be capitalism
| itself, but I am more prone to blame it on a kind of
| individualism, both in culture and in the nature of how
| corporations sell products as individual objects to
| individual people, and not to any larger social
| organization. (Except as a placeholder for a group of
| individuals.)
|
| The difficulty is in imagining some kind of economic
| structure in which an Apple or Microsoft could make
| billions from selling products/services that are somehow
| public goods, or enhancing public spaces. We can conceive
| of top design minds at Apple spending billions to create a
| new personal computing device, but the same minds working
| on a way to improve public spaces - say, by removing
| graffiti easily, or planting trees easily - just somehow
| doesn't make sense or fit into the "types of things" they
| would do.
|
| It may also just be a fundamental structural issue, as I
| talked about in the latter part of the essay. There are far
| fewer legal restrictions on individual objects than there
| are on spaces. I.e., while everyone can use an iPhone
| everywhere, using a device to remove graffiti would come up
| against all sorts of property rights laws.
|
| It's quite a difficult topic to wrap one's mind around, at
| the end of the day. But yeah in general I agree that it's
| not necessarily individual bad actors, and incentives are a
| huge part of it.
| frankvdwaal wrote:
| I have a little unproven hypothesis that fits that last
| statement, that it would be absurd for a company like Apple
| to bring people together in the real world.
|
| My hypothesis is that these companies want to make money by
| "taking" your senses. They want your attention to be with
| them at all times, by being in your ear so you'll hear them,
| by being on your wrist so you'll feel them, by being on your
| eyes so you'll see them.
|
| I'm thinking these companies are building up technological
| ecosystems - Apple's specialty! - that they hope will
| eventually form a proxy for you to experience reality.
| Because if they can convince you to experience life through
| them, they'll have your wallet too.
|
| Maybe it's just a silly thought of mine, but it kind of fits.
| polo wrote:
| Very well put. I agree with you, and yet I still wouldn't
| give up using my Vision Pro. Though I hope I'll be able to
| draw the line at the Apple NosePods ;-)
| samatman wrote:
| This is such a strange take to me.
|
| A phone is fundamentally a communications device. I use
| mine to catch rides, figure out where I'm going, call and
| text my loved ones, all of these things connect me to other
| people. I listen through headphones to music, and to talk
| to people, neither of these are isolating experiences.
| AirPods even have a mode which specifically turns off audio
| when someone is speaking to you, I like this, because I do
| enjoy listening to music or a podcast when I'm alone at the
| grocery store, and I do not like to be isolated by that
| from people around me, or the cashier.
|
| I also use it to take photos, and then share them with
| people I care about, sometimes photos _of_ people I care
| about, which I can then enjoy when they aren 't around.
| These things enhance my senses, they don't steal them.
|
| Phones certainly have some _apps_ available which are
| addictive, I see people enduring self-imposed isolation in
| the presence of others due to that addiction, and that 's
| sad, which is why I've dropped those social networks from
| my life and don't have those apps installed. Apple doesn't
| make those apps though, the closest thing is Messenger,
| which is a way to communicate with others, it doesn't have
| upvotes, it isn't public, none of those things.
|
| I don't see a way to square all that with the thesis that
| Apple's specialty is isolatory sensory theft. Even the
| headset, which is clearly not designed to enhance the
| social parts of life, has several features which exist
| specifically to connect the user at least in part to their
| surroundings, and I think the fact that Apple never sold a
| VR headset without those features is a better reflection of
| their corporate philosophy than some paranoid yarn about
| how they make more money if users are cocooned in some
| Apple-provided sensory replacement bubble.
|
| Did you mean to say Meta? Because if so, you made the
| mistake twice in the same post.
| nonameiguess wrote:
| It's obviously hyperbole. I'm a fairly frequent traveler at
| this point and probably will continue to be in another decade,
| and there is no plausible future in which I'm strapping on a VR
| headset for the duration of a flight. Sometimes I'll read a
| book but not consistently. More often than not, I watch the
| landscape pass and get a thrill out of recognizing landmarks
| from high above. I also like to count the rubberized tracks in
| a city as it consistently surprises me how many there are when
| I can never seem to find one to run on where I actually live.
|
| On the other hand, I try to take a middle ground here. As much
| as I get annoyed and shake my fist at clouds these days when
| I'm trying to run past people on the sidewalks and they've got
| their faces buried in phones and don't see me coming, I can
| recognize a lot of people seem to have a deep-seated need for
| non-stop mental stimulus they don't seem to get from the real
| world for whatever reason and I'm not going to judge them for
| that. They're just different from me and that's fine.
|
| But I do exist too and it'd be nice if reviewers like this
| didn't typical mind everyone, either.
| dagmx wrote:
| What environment on a plane would someone be better out not
| tuning out?
|
| It's a multi hour flight. I don't know anyone around me, most
| are asleep.
|
| Many people already tune out the noise with their noise
| cancelling audio products.
|
| Why would it be weird to tune out the visuals too?
|
| The Vision Pro lets me also see people while wearing it and
| they can see my eyes. If I'm tuned out and someone approaches
| me they fade through.
|
| Meanwhile someone with the headset can watch movies on a larger
| screen and feel less claustrophobic.
| jayd16 wrote:
| Well they probably mean it would be nice if people were bored
| enough to be friendly.
| dagmx wrote:
| That would require a serendipitous level of
|
| - sitting next to someone who you get along with and don't
| run out of things to talk about for the entire duration of
| the flight
|
| - neither one of you wanting to sleep or do anything else
| for the duration of the flight either
|
| - not caring about the other passengers around you who
| might also want to sleep
| latexr wrote:
| I was on a flight not too long ago where the two people
| sitting next to me had apparently just met. They were
| from different countries travelling for different
| reasons. They had a friendly chat for a while about where
| they were from, why they were on that plane, and some
| things they enjoyed to do. The whole interaction lasted
| maybe twenty minutes, from sitting to take off. Then they
| said "cheers", one of them went to sleep and the other
| began watching something on the phone. They didn't speak
| again until we landed and from the outside it didn't feel
| any of them felt awkward for even a second.
|
| I'm not suggestion you strike up a conversation with your
| seat partner on a plane, but if you do you don't have to
| feel beholden to them.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| So what I get out of this is that while they were nice
| and friendly and had a good chat, they _also_ tuned each
| other out for basically the entire flight. Sounds like an
| example in favor of dagmx 's argument, which is not to be
| unfriendly, but that friendliness is rarely a way to pass
| multiple hours in a plane.
| latexr wrote:
| They didn't "tune each other out" nor did they tune out
| the world entirely. Any of them could have resumed the
| conversation if they wanted to. Heck, _I_ could have
| easily started up a conversation with them if I felt like
| it. That's not tuning out, it's simply not interacting.
|
| Have you never sat in someone's company, be it a pet or
| another person, each doing your own thing yet the
| presence of another made it more pleasant? That doesn't
| mean tuning out the other person, quite the contrary.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| The intangible benefit of "I could have talked to them,
| but didn't, and it was nice to be nearby" is going to be
| a minuscule part of the plane experience.
|
| It doesn't support the idea above of "it would be nice if
| people were bored enough to be friendly" as a way to
| handle entire plane trips, it just suggests a slightly
| different way of focusing on your own activities.
|
| And what you described versus a vision pro is like, a
| difference between being 75% tuned out and 85% tuned out.
| It's not all that impactful.
| dagmx wrote:
| And with a headset on, they could have still resumed the
| conversation.
|
| Or is it also rude if one tries to sleep? Or if they
| decided to listen to music or watch a movie on the
| screens?
|
| Really the fact is that all those things are normalized
| and this isn't. The arguments against it would equally
| apply to all of the rest of the things people do on
| planes to occupy their time.
| dagmx wrote:
| Your story just says what my comment does though. They
| ignored each other the rest of the time.
|
| Nobody is saying you tune out the entirety of the world
| the second you sit down. But there is an awful amount of
| people acting like the environment around you on a plane
| is worth paying attention to the entire time
| beepbooptheory wrote:
| There is something subtle going on with the "passthrough"
| feature. All the marketing and fans continually point to it in
| a way that feels like tacit acknowledgement of this very point
| wrt "tuning out." We are all primed for full VR Wall-E
| experience machines to suck us up into our own world, but the
| future seems to be more and more about the overlay. Not
| replacing one picture with another, but just painting and
| filtering ontop of the original. Not "I am somewhere else right
| now", but "I am here, but I am doing something you can't see."
|
| Which, I gotta say, is an even darker formulation at the end of
| the day! Like at least if we all plugged in and went the Oasis
| we are truly _sharing_ some base experience of the place; or if
| its going to be solitary experience machines, at least those
| experiences would be holistically directed towards me in some
| consistent package; but with this stuff, you start to think
| about how much more ground these crooks can still take in
| stratifying the experience of simply the world itself as we
| perceive it.
| tyfon wrote:
| We're getting closer and closer to the world Solaria in Asimovs
| universe.
|
| I'm personally trying (and to some degree failing) to disengage
| from screens and other digital interactions.
|
| My advantage is that I live quite remotely and can just hop
| into my boat and go fishing or something without the phone, but
| the craving that result in are scary.
| leeoniya wrote:
| > it offers an unparalleled opportunity to selectively tune out
| your environment and sink into an engaging activity like
| watching a movie or just working on your laptop.
|
| https://southpark.fandom.com/wiki/Buddha_Box
| plandis wrote:
| > The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that
| the world would be better if we tuned out our environment less.
|
| I'm curious what you do on a 6 hr plane ride that's not tuning
| out your environment?
| latexr wrote:
| Read, sleep, think, stare out the window... While you can
| argue reading and sleeping are tuning out the environment,
| I'm never completely disengaged from my surroundings. Even if
| you stare at a screen with headphones on1, someone can still
| get your attention via your peripheral vision.
|
| Either way, I get why people do it, I was making more of a
| general point. It's common for me to be walking down a street
| and see other people, also walking, so glued to their phones
| they notice _nothing_ around them, to the point they have no
| reaction to near collisions.
|
| I also find it telling that while the author mentioned (and I
| quoted) planes and trains, all of the many responses so far
| has centred on planes.
|
| 1 Which I don't do but won't criticise anyone for it either.
| vunderba wrote:
| _> The more time passes, the less I can shake the feeling that
| the world would be better if we tuned out our environment
| less._
|
| While I appreciate the sentiment behind the statement, try
| living in an area where 90% of the environment is car stereos
| with subwoofers cranked so loud that you can practically see
| the air vibrating around you and get back to me. Given that (at
| least in the west), noise pollution is never really going to be
| properly legislated, the ability to tune it out is a god send.
| latexr wrote:
| On the flip side, continuously tuning out discomfort is a
| vicious cycle. You need to feel some of it to be motivated to
| do something to change your situation.
|
| I'm not advocation for _never_ taking a break, I'm saying
| that we keep doing more and more of it and should perhaps
| consider dialling it down. Or at the very least not take
| tuning out as a slam dunk desired benefit without adverse
| consequences.
| aspenmayer wrote:
| I read recently that Apple is working on foldables for 2026 and
| AR/XR glasses for 2027, and a non-pro Apple Vision I think next
| year?
|
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-10-13/apple-...
| jonpurdy wrote:
| For those who wear N95s on planes, I can confirm that 3M Aura
| 9205+ works great with Vision Pro* and doesn't hinder using it at
| all, nor reduce comfort, at least for my head and face shape.
|
| * - Tested during my 30 min demo (more like 45 mins) at the Apple
| Store.
| klabb3 wrote:
| Not criticism, genuinely curious: why? I thought cabin air was
| exceptionally well cycled and filtered, much more so than other
| indoor spaces.
| isodev wrote:
| At the very least so one doesn't sneeze over the person on
| the next seat.
| jonpurdy wrote:
| I used to think this especially since airlines touted how
| good the air filtration was when COVID hit.
|
| It's actually quite poor and significantly worse than most
| indoor spaces I've entered (most spaces aren't great at
| around 800-1600ppm). On planes I've measured* very high CO2
| levels (1800-4000ppm), with the worst air during boarding and
| deplaning. This matches the findings of others (both amateur
| and professional researchers).
|
| * - using Aranet4
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| Are CO2 levels a useful way to measure filtration?
|
| Are we expecting almost all the clean air to be from
| outside, minimal amounts from recirculation?
| jonpurdy wrote:
| Apologies, I specified "filtration" but meant "quality",
| which I would define as filtration + fresh air intake.
|
| I'd have expected a better mix (more fresh air) since
| even with filtration removing many particulates and
| viruses, high CO2 levels still cause worse cognitive
| performance.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| It's hard to get lots of fresh air into a pressurized
| plane, so I'm willing to have a good bit of leeway on
| that front. And airflow patterns are important; a lot of
| fresh air running from front to back would likely do more
| harm than good.
| criddell wrote:
| How does an N95 help with CO2 levels?
| macintux wrote:
| I would wager it's not a matter of helping filter out
| CO2, but rather CO2 is one way to assess how effective
| the air management is on a plane.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Airplane air is clean but there are just too many people
| aboard and for too long. Something like a quarter of all air
| travel passengers get a respiratory illness within a week.
| Some hypothesize that the incredibly low humidity of cabin
| air (in most aircraft, except the very newest) makes it
| easier to acquire infections. A face mask, in addition to its
| normal role, also solves this problem because it is very
| humid _inside_ the mask.
| sbrother wrote:
| I don't know, but I always tended to get sick after flying. I
| started wearing a mask while flying during COVID and it's the
| one place I still do it. Not scientific but I feel like I
| have gotten sick after flying less frequently since then. It
| could even just be the effect of making myself breathe humid
| air in what's normally an extremely dry environment.
| AnarchismIsCool wrote:
| There are long periods where the filters aren't running
| during startup and shutdown, you'll notice once the seatbelt
| sign turns on at the beginning and right after it turns off
| at the end, things get stale super quickly and the temps
| start rising. That's because they turned off/haven't switched
| to air supplied by the jetway yet.
| RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u wrote:
| Slightly OT but I much prefer the 9211+: the vent[*] makes a
| difference in comfort when worn over long periods. Or the 9105
| / 9105S which sticks out further away from the face, and its
| elastic design makes it a bit quicker to don / doff at
| checkpoints.
|
| [*] Yes I'm prioritizing my comfort over safety for others, but
| that's the American Way (tm), isn't it.
| JoshTriplett wrote:
| There are masks with full N95 filtration that have a fan
| built in to pull the air through the filter. Makes it much
| more comfortable to wear for long periods.
|
| (I switch to a mask with no metal in it for airport metal
| detectors, but I can switch back again immediately
| afterwards.)
| iyn wrote:
| Any recommendations for such masks?
| jonpurdy wrote:
| Thanks for this recommendation; I was considering ordering
| these for my next trip since they should fit the same as
| 9205+.
|
| (I don't see an issue with wearing an exhalation vent next to
| folks who aren't wearing masks themselves. If they cared
| about the air they'd also be wearing a mask. If I sat next to
| someone wearing one I'd switch back to the 9205+.)
| btbuildem wrote:
| I really wish they were made in not-stark-white. And, is it
| just me, or have these steadily been going up in price?
| justin66 wrote:
| 3M make some colorful Aura masks, for Brazil. I wish they
| were more universally available.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSs4KMEuWkk
| leptons wrote:
| Same here. I use the Honeywell Saf-T-Fit masks, with the
| exhaust, either N99 or P100. They have a soft cushion where
| it touches the face and I find it's far superior in comfort
| on long flights to masks without the soft inner part. A
| little more expensive, but I'll never fly with a regular N95
| again.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-14110404-SAF-T-FIT-
| Particul...
| amelius wrote:
| > But damn, based on how well it all works now, you can just tell
| by the 4th or 5th generation, Apple Vision Pro will be on the
| face of every frequent flyer.
|
| And they can stop paying extra for business class, because it
| stops mattering.
| diggan wrote:
| The times I've flown business, the best part has been how the
| seat can fold down fully so one can sleep property and lying
| down. None of the other stuff really mattered to me.
| joshstrange wrote:
| Just flew across the Atlantic on lay-flat seats. They are
| absolutely a massive improvement over anything I've flown in
| before but I still couldn't sleep well. Maybe I'm too big (6'
| 2" and not skinny) but I couldn't lay completely flat because
| I ran out of leg room as the seat reclined.
|
| It was an amazing ride other than that.
| abecedarius wrote:
| Sounds like you're under 6' tall. (I've never flown business-
| class, though.)
| yitianjian wrote:
| Or a normal/skinny weight. Even my shoulders are too wide for
| modern economy seats.
|
| I fly a lot of business class, and the comfort and space is
| what you pay for, not entertainment. But having good wifi
| helps a lot, even in a cramped seat.
| aeturnum wrote:
| This is the main reason I see to get a vision pro - basically a
| travel friendly monitor. Glad to see it does well under these
| conditions, though it's still a tough sell considering the price
| tag.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| tangent, but: i think reclining your seat in economy class is
| incredibly selfish. i wish they'd weld them all.
| digital-cygnet wrote:
| It's always interesting when I see this take because I was
| raised the opposite way and was really surprised to learn a few
| years back from articles like [1] that some people consider
| this an etiquette breach.
|
| From what I can tell there are two populations: those who
| prefer to recline and those who prefer not to. As long as an
| entire column of seats belongs to one population you're fine
| (if everyone wants to recline no one loses space, we all just
| shift around to a configuration in which everyone is more
| comfortable). But when you have someone more comfortable
| staying upright sitting behind a recline-preferenced person,
| that's where issues arise. It's not clear to me whether it's
| morally wrong for the front person to recline in that case,
| given that's basically just preferencing the default of
| "upright", which is arbitrary.
|
| Nothing here should be read as justifying people who don't pay
| attention to what's going on behind them and/or recline
| suddenly/aggressively. It's always something that should be
| done with a glance behind and a smooth, gentle motion. Maybe
| also a word to the person sitting behind though again I'm not
| convinced that's a moral imperative.
|
| [1] https://thepointsguy.com/airline/airplane-seat-reclining-
| eti...
| redhed wrote:
| Personally I don't get on a high horse about it and just deal
| with it, but if the person ahead of me reclines I lose leg
| room that me reclining does not give back.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| i do prefer to recline. i choose not to, even though the
| airline says that i am entitled to, because i know that
| reclining has a high likelihood of inconveniencing the person
| behind me (primarily due to loss of legroom and inability to
| use a laptop).
| mft_ wrote:
| Same here; except I'll recline after dinner on long-haul
| flights, because that's the point virtually everyone does,
| especially when the lights are dimmed. I would never
| recline on <4 hour flights, and am irked by those who do.
|
| (I wonder if it simply driven by an individualistic vs.
| collectivist mindset?)
| malthaus wrote:
| nice stance to have if everyone around you has the same in a
| full plane.
|
| as soon as one person starts reclininig, you can die on that
| hill all alone and i'm reclining faster than you can sigh in
| disappointment
| pmarreck wrote:
| A little bit of reclining means the difference between my head
| drooping forward or to either side if I fall asleep (very
| uncomfortable) or staying in a vertical position with the
| weight slightly on the back of the head (far more comfortable).
|
| This is really a case of "don't hate the player, hate the game"
| (be mad at the airlines for packing people in like sardines,
| don't be mad at the people for trying to take a bit of extra
| comfort which has been made available to them)
| tesch1 wrote:
| Or get mad at yourself for not paying for more space.
| Airlines are a business, and you chose that particular seat
| knowing full well ahead of time what the parameters of that
| purchase were.
|
| Would airlines be able to offer more space for more money?
| Sure they would. Would people pay for it? The market has
| already answered!
| pmarreck wrote:
| That's fair if you fail to consider that I am 6'3", my
| partner and child are much smaller, and I'd essentially be
| the only one to gain from such an upgrade while having to
| pay for 3x, unless I wanted to sit separately from them and
| endure much consternation. lol
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| (for the record, i don't get mad at people over this and i
| don't think people should get mad at others for this.)
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| Being in an airplane seat for any amount of time is unpleasant.
| IMO, getting upset at the person in front reclining the
| allocated 2 inches to ease some of that discomfort sounds
| vaguely narcissistic. If you want to get upset, get upset at
| the airline.
| DutchRanger wrote:
| I take out my earbuds even saying Hi to the bus driver I can't
| imagine talking to a flight attendant while wearing a VR device.
| It seems very uninterested in the person you are talking to.
|
| Could be just me but I think a lot of older generations share
| this experience. It is not hard to take out your earbuds or take
| off your VR device to show you are paying attention to the person
| you are talking to.
| cybrox wrote:
| There's a huge shift in this field at the moment. I personally
| find it disrespectful to talk to people while wearing
| headphones/earbuds and I'd still consider myself young but a
| lot of younger people, especially u25 seem to find this
| completely normal.
|
| I'm not sure I like this development. Ignoring the
| "disrespectful" part, it has become accepted to toy with your
| phone while listening to someone and let's be honest, we all
| know you're not REALLY listening or engaging with the
| conversation.
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| I personally also take them out. But don't see it as rude or
| disrespectful if others don't.
|
| Especially with AirPods gaining hearing aid functionality, it
| shouldn't be a sign of lack of focus.
|
| As an aside, I personally able to concentrate _more_ in
| certain scenarios when I am fiddling or have background noise
| playing. It quiets the part of my brain that otherwise gets
| distracted. I use that method for video conferences to
| increase the amount I am focused on the speaker and content.
| Quothling wrote:
| I think your perception of what is being played inside the
| earbuds may be why you're confused about this. Around here
| it's extremely common for people to keep their earbuds in for
| short conversations, but everyone will pause and activate
| surrounding sounds while they talk. There are obviously
| assholes who don't, but in general it's completely normal to
| assume someone wearing earbuds is listening to you.
|
| Contradictory to your experience with it being young people
| who wouldn't listen to you it tends to be the 45ish business
| man who continues to talk on their phone in my experience.
| drcode wrote:
| > in general it's completely normal to assume someone
| wearing earbuds is listening to you
|
| Just because you emphatically state that something is
| normal, that does not make it normal
| Quothling wrote:
| I think it's a little disingenuous for you to take what I
| said out of the context I said it in, but you're right as
| far as it's in my anecdotal experience. Which is why I
| said "around here", but I guess I could've made it even
| clearer.
| darknavi wrote:
| What about earbuds aiding in hearing? Lots of scenarios where
| earbuds can help with hearing and not impede it. I use AirPod
| Pros on flights for cancelling out the loud background noise
| of the plane but it makes talking to others much easier.
| kccqzy wrote:
| It doesn't give any social cues on how you are using it.
| That is, people cannot tell whether you are using earbuds
| to block outside sound or to enhance outside sound.
| Therefore it doesn't work, until social norms change.
|
| I remember the real hearing aids of yesteryear. They look
| sufficiently different from earbuds that they are always
| acceptable.
| KTibow wrote:
| These days there's open earbuds that look a lot like
| hearing aids
| jayd16 wrote:
| It actually is a real pain to put the headset on and off
| frequently. Much, much more so than earbuds. It's a major UX
| issue.
|
| I don't even really see people take off headphones in this
| scenario, just uncovering an ear. It would be fairly hilarious
| to see someone lift up one side of an AR headset to make
| (singular) eye contact, tho.
| dailykoder wrote:
| >Could be just me but I think a lot of older generations share
| this experience.
|
| I am only 32 and wouldn't consider myself old.
|
| I used to get very uncomfortable, maybe even angry, when people
| at the cashier in the supermarket just did not get off their
| headphones and just leave a simple hello to the person at the
| counter. Nowadays I am just mildly irritated sometimes, but I
| still think it's stupid. Especially if the cashier is a really
| nice and polite person. Leaving on your headphones and not
| saying a word, sometimes not even giving them a look, feels
| like a f- you in their face. Just be nice to other people and
| it even works if you are a very socially awkward person like
| me. The world can be nice and even give you a smile every once
| in a while.
|
| This obviously got worse since corona. Germany used to be a
| cash-heavy country, but now since "everyone" is just paying by
| card, they just pull it out, wave around with it to signal that
| they want to pay with it, so that they don't even have to say
| one single word. So weird.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| I guess the flip side of this is that you look like a fucking
| dork.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| The main impediment I would experience to wearing this on a
| plane.
| atestu wrote:
| I think that will fade. I don't know if you remember how mocked
| the airpods were when they first came out ("They look like
| q-tips"). All it'll take is a few celebrities spotted using one
| and they'll turn cool in no time.
| mft_ wrote:
| You're not wrong, but I think there's at least a couple of
| orders of magnitude of awkwardness between the Airpods and
| the the Vision Pro that will have to be overcome, before the
| VP becomes mainstream.
| Terretta wrote:
| Imagine the first person wearing bell bottom jeans. Some
| folks just DGAF, and next thing you know ...
| nine_k wrote:
| There were times when going to an office wearing a T-shirt
| felt crazy, like going to an office while wearing a bikini,
| or wearing a clown attire, would be now. It changed maybe
| in late 1990s.
|
| Things like these change very slowly, then suddenly, once
| the views of the _perceived_ majority around most people
| change enough that the people start to see the new state as
| proper and confirmant, a new norm.
| asdff wrote:
| airpods at least had the equivocal wired headphones
| normalizing that look for a decade before they appeared.
| ks2048 wrote:
| I don't think it will pass, but I think subsequent versions
| will be slimmer and less mock-prone. In 10 years people will
| look back at the first version the way people look back at
| the first bulky cell phones.
| righthand wrote:
| Airpods aren't cool though, the majority don't wear them nor
| can they afford them.
| samatman wrote:
| You appear to be a bit unclear on what cool means.
| righthand wrote:
| Are you sure you're not conflating cool with elitism?
| TillE wrote:
| Zillions of people are out there wearing cheap AirPod
| knockoffs too.
|
| I don't think any ear buds are "cool", but certainly
| nobody cares, it's perfectly normal.
| kibwen wrote:
| Air pods are about as cool-looking as a hearing aid. At
| best, they're utilitarian.
| pmarreck wrote:
| I was a high school computer nerd in the 80's. They all said
| that about me then too, and I didn't care.
|
| But to your point, it will probably get slicker over time. For
| this one, they erred on the side of high fidelity, and they
| nailed it pretty well.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| Oh, I have no doubt that it will get better over time, but I
| think people forget that part of the early adopter tax is
| often that you look like a fucking dork. Which in my mind
| isn't a bad thing - it shows that you're committed to making
| it work. There's something noble about that, wouldn't you
| say?
| usui wrote:
| Upvote for doubling down on the "look like a fucking dork"
| phrase. I wasn't sure at first if this was self-deprecating
| humor, but now I am. Neeeeeerd!
| pmarreck wrote:
| "early adopter tax"- love that, may have to borrow it
|
| And you're right! And some of us will happily pay that! It
| is the _bleeding_ edge, after all.
| tesch1 wrote:
| Also be sure not to let anyone see you browsing HN.
| sterlind wrote:
| HN isn't well-known outside deep tech circles. anyone who
| clocks you reading it probably reads it too.
| isodev wrote:
| Yup, the person wearing one literally gets the "drives a
| cybertruck" spotlight.
| accrual wrote:
| At least the AVP seems like a reasonably engineered piece of
| equipment. The cybertruck has a seemingly unending list of
| flaws documented in /r/cyberstuck.
| elevatedastalt wrote:
| And yet the Cybertruck was the 3rd highest selling Electric
| vehicle in the US this year.
| accrual wrote:
| It's possible for those concerned with this to overcome it!
| Most people are way more focused on themselves than whatever a
| random person is wearing in public, and will likely forget the
| encounter the second they set foot off the plane.
| righthand wrote:
| Apple fans don't care about that, look at the way their screens
| aren't even designed correctly causing the software to have to
| compensate. Look at the way they all walk around with PVC pipe
| growing out of their ears. It's all about getting Apple users
| to dig deeper and deeper into the psychosis of it all. You'll
| look like an idiot but it's okay, you over payed for all of
| this stuff so you could look that way and tell people you're an
| Apple fan.
|
| It's all about compensating for whichever "cool design" they
| throw your way. It's not about utility.
| hbn wrote:
| To their credit, Apple users save a lot of money by living
| rent-free in your head.
|
| 99% of Apple users are not thinking about how much better
| they are than other people for buying the phone or computer
| they did. They just bought it because it's the obvious choice
| and they've had good experiences with it in the past.
|
| Every time an anti-Apple zealout busts out the spec sheets to
| prove why alternatives are so much better, there's about 8000
| gotchas and usability issues that aren't worth the tradeoff
| for most people. You're free to not think the tradeoffs of
| Apple devices are worth it for you, but for everyone else
| (most people) they make the best option that puts up the
| minimal amount of fighting and a handful of workflows that
| you simply can't recreate in other ecosystems without dozens
| of asterisks.
| righthand wrote:
| Every time an Apple zealot busts out counter points to
| prove their purchasing choice is better there's about 8000
| gotchas of what Apple won't let you do on their device that
| aren't worth the trade off for most people. You're free to
| think the tradeoffs of non-Apple devices aren't worth it
| for you, but for everyone else (most people since most
| people don't own an Apple device) they make the best option
| that puts up minimal amount of fighting to customize your
| device and use it how you like without restriction. A
| handful of workflows that you simply can't get in the Apple
| ecosystems without dozens of Apple zealots telling you're
| wrong for choosing something else and bragging that their
| choice is somehow superior.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Many people simply like one product, and many other
| people like another product. Almost nobody is a "fan" or
| a "zealot."
| gamblor956 wrote:
| _99% of Apple users are not thinking about how much better
| they are than other people for buying the phone or computer
| they did._
|
| You must not spend any time around teenagers. Teenagers
| absolutely judge people for not having iPhones.
|
| _best option that puts up the minimal amount of fighting
| and a handful of workflows that you simply can 't recreate
| in other ecosystems without dozens of asterisks._
|
| This is backwards.
|
| My mentees (and on the other end of the age scale, my in-
| laws) are always shocked that I can do something on my
| Android in seconds that takes them minutes on an
| iPhone...assuming they can even do it on their iPhones at
| all.
| valval wrote:
| It's funny because I was you for 25 years. I then got an
| iPhone and an M1 MacBook and never looked back. The Apple
| ecosystem doesn't have competition, and products are very
| high quality.
|
| Then again, Apple is one of the most valuable companies in
| the world. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude
| that they're offering something valuable.
| righthand wrote:
| Oh I see you joined the cult, and you like the koolaid,
| what a great point.
|
| I don't know what drugs you take to believe they have no
| competition. That must be part of the cult requirements.
| Are you admitting that you think they're a monopoly?
|
| Apple is one of the most valuable companies in the world
| because the incessant fandom that actively chooses to never
| consider anything else, any company can make a good
| product. No sticks up butts required.
|
| Edit: Also a VR headset, wireless headphones, etc is not
| something valuable to humanity. It's valuable to 1st world
| peoples that need a pedestal to validate the amount of
| money they throw away.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| https://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI
|
| Relatedly, if other companies make better, less expensive
| products then why don't consumers buy them?
|
| The customer is always right in matters of taste. Just
| because you don't like the taste doesn't mean they're
| wrong about their own situation.
| righthand wrote:
| They do...is that belief that people don't buy other
| products that aren't overpriced a part of the cult
| beliefs? Do you have a passive aggressive youtube video
| for that idea that allows you to passively be a dick
| about the products you don't buy?
|
| No it doesn't mean they are wrong, just closed minded.
| albumen wrote:
| You're carrying a lot of anger, making reductionist and
| polarizing arguments that sound like Mac vs PC platform
| wars from the 90s. I hope you find a more balanced
| approach to dealing with the world around you.
| gamblor956 wrote:
| _Apple is one of the most valuable companies in the world.
| It doesn't take a rocket scientist to conclude that they're
| offering something valuable._
|
| So is Louis Vitton...and a whole host of companies that
| don't offer anything valuable beyond status-based luxury
| goods.
| Oreb wrote:
| I'm not a working while travelling kind of person (I often have
| the ambition to work while flying, but for some reason I always
| feel too tired); my Vision Pro stays in my bag for the duration
| of the flight. For work when away from home more generally,
| however, I find it a fantastic device. It's basically a portable
| Apple Studio Display that I can use wherever I go. As someone in
| a long distance relationship who is often away from home for long
| periods of time, this is extremely useful.
| sleepybrett wrote:
| Paying three grand for a monitor you can buy for your 'second
| place' for a few hundred dollars seems like a choice.
|
| I'm in the same position. I considered the vision pro, but
| couldn't justify it, even if I used it on the flights etc. I
| depend on my switch/steamdeck for the plane, laptop if i have
| to work (I try not to, it's terrible)... and then I just went
| on amazon and bought a pair of 27" lg widescreens for a few
| hundred a piece. When I'm not in her apt we stow one of them in
| a closet (she dislikes two monitors on a purely aesthetic
| level). I fly in with my laptop and my keyboard and I'm ready
| to go.
| sylens wrote:
| Just reading this blog makes me feel like it is actually not a
| great device to travel with. For me, a good travel device is one
| that takes up minimal room when packing to the point where it
| becomes easy to forget I even have it in my bag. The Vision Pro
| typically requires its own dedicated spot on top of your carry on
| as you go through the airport - kind of the opposite. The author
| talks about just packing it with a single cover for the goggles
| but that also makes me nervous given its MSRP
| tesch1 wrote:
| I travel regularly with a vr headset and it takes a minority of
| my carry on space packed in a protective case. Non issue.
| prmoustache wrote:
| It is not necessarily the space used but the inconvenience of
| packing/unpacking stuff from a carry on bag in a cramped
| environment.
|
| I guess that would be different if I was flying first or
| business class.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| Yes exactly.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| A kindle/book/tablet seems superior in this regard. You get
| your entertainment for the plane and you don't have to worry
| about unpacking it on the plane, being precious with a very
| expensive piece of equipment and they are negligible in terms
| of lugging around/storing in your hotel. You can even
| reasonably use these if you have a little down time waiting in
| a line, during quick trips, will be without power for a while,
| etc.
| cryptoz wrote:
| The last time I remember flying with a tablet, it was so
| suspicious that airport security hauled me into a private
| room and interrogated me about it. They questioned why I
| didn't take it out of my bag for the scanner (since it was a
| 'laptop'). They asked what it was. They made me turn it on
| and use it. They were extremely rude and kept me holed up for
| a long time while investigating it.
|
| So I don't fly with a tablet any more haha! Although, I get
| that time has passed and I would no longer be accosted so
| much, I assume. Must be pretty common now. My story takes
| place in ~2011 with the Motorola Xoom tablet. I guess they
| had never seen a tablet before.
|
| I was also working hard on a plane one time, writing code to
| access barometer data on mobile devices to build a
| distributed weather sensor network that could be activated in
| software. The flight attendant came by and told me, "okay,
| time to put your toys away sweetie" referring to my tablet
| and phone. Oooooooooh my god.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| In the 13 years since your experience, airport security
| around the world has had time to be extremely blase about
| most electronic devices.
|
| That said, security rules vary from airport to airport. SFO
| with TSA Pre is practically a no-op, but CDG security
| requires that you remove from carry-on any device with a
| >20cm dimension!
| cubefox wrote:
| > The flight attendant came by and told me, "okay, time to
| put your toys away sweetie" referring to my tablet and
| phone.
|
| The audacity! I hope you called them sweetie too.
| ValentineC wrote:
| I believe the main reason laptops have to be separated is
| because they appear as just a large chunk of metal on the
| X-ray. A tablet would look similar.
|
| Pre-iPad, most airport staff (who aren't hardcore techies,
| or might not have the privilege of higher education) might
| think of a tablet as a laptop anyway.
| wizardofaz wrote:
| The author (me) specifically recommends to not buy the bulky
| travel case from Apple and instead, just use the default front
| cover + a lens protector.
|
| This is specifically to not to take up any extra room than is
| necessary. The only room it takes up is essentially the width
| of the HMD itself (even negating the strap)!
| Terretta wrote:
| For those that might find themselves nervous with a naked
| AVP, consider this popular option, a Syntech Hard Carrying
| Case compatible with various goggles:
|
| Small: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0C4YFV9F9/
|
| Medium: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09QPN321B
|
| Syntech recommend medium. Folks likely would prefer small,
| but caution about cracking glass front.
| agar wrote:
| FYI, you may want to revisit a couple of your "only me"
| points on the AVP with the release of the Quest 3S.
|
| The 3S has an IR blaster that allows it to work in total
| darkness. Meta also enabled a travel mode[1] a couple of OS
| revisions ago (back in June or so).
|
| [1] https://www.meta.com/help/quest/articles/in-vr-
| experiences/o...
| pradn wrote:
| I've stopped carrying my over-ear noise-cancelling headphones
| for this reason. They take up like a quarter/half of a normal
| item-sized backpack. I can sleep with plane noise. But I always
| bring a sleep mask, because I can't sleep with bright lights
| turning on and off all the time. I did recently get some in-ear
| headphones w/ noise cancelling, perhaps they're enough.
|
| There's always the fear of losing stuff when you're moving
| objects around so much, too. One less thing to worry about.
| calf wrote:
| I lost my favorite hair comb on my last trip, so I'm
| literally building a detailed packing checklist spreadsheet
| for next time I go anywhere.
| ghaff wrote:
| There are both wired and wireless noise canceling earbuds
| that work well. Never had an interest in the bulky over the
| ear ones. I pack pretty light even for 2-3 week trips.
| skydhash wrote:
| > _They take up like a quarter /half of a normal item-sized
| backpack_
|
| I love the Sony XM3/XM4 for this reason. They fold up to a
| very compact volume
| 76SlashDolphin wrote:
| In my experience my Airpod Pros and Huawei Freebud Pros
| achieve 95% of the audio and noise cancellation quality of my
| Sony XM3s that I just barely use the big headset anymore. I
| understand that they are technically different categories of
| products but for me and a lot of other non-audiophiles I know
| switched to TWS earbuds once they got half decent ANC.
| sspiff wrote:
| While this seems like a good use case for mixed reality headsets
| like the AVP, I still find it kind of creepy that someone is
| hiding most of their face while also potentially filming
| everything that's going on.
| knorker wrote:
| I've used Google's Daydream on flights. I agree, it's great.
| petesergeant wrote:
| These are an order of magnitude cheaper and will display whatever
| you can stick USB-C into:
|
| https://www.xreal.com/
|
| One area in which they're significantly worse is tracking -- they
| only really work well with the screen in a fixed position
| relative to your eyes, but this has been great for a movie.
|
| I can't get them setup to program on well tho
| nerdjon wrote:
| I bought an xreal pro hoping for a cheaper vision pro while
| technology catches up.
|
| Honestly xreal's marketing is generous at best. They seem to
| really try to push it as being an AR device when its really
| nothing more than a monitor stuck to your face that you can't
| change the size of.
|
| Using the beam or the software on your computer adds some AR
| ability, but due to the way it works on your Mac it really is
| not a pleasant experience and uses a ton of resources. The
| tracking is not great.
|
| The lack of any sort of pass through (all you can do is dim it)
| makes it fairly useless in many situations, like the one
| mentioned in this article.
|
| Options are great, and it is great that is significantly
| cheaper. But I bought the xreal pro, I keep trying to use it
| for watching something, games, programming or other work. But
| every time I use it for maybe 20 minutes and just get
| frustrated and put it away for a few more weeks.
|
| It is one of the reasons I think that the price (and size) of
| the vision pro is justified. The tech to make something smaller
| and cost less just isnt here yet. All of those headsets like
| the xreal have serious compromises while trying to push an "AR"
| narrative for features they just don't really have.
| youoy wrote:
| > A big bonus for watching movies in VR on a plane is the fact
| that you don't need to conscious about movies that contain
| graphic scenes. You don't need to turn down the brightness and
| rotate the screen away from children!
|
| Ah! I was not understanding why would anyone prefer this over
| other less invasive or smaller options, but now I get to the real
| advantage! /s
| Takennickname wrote:
| I burst out laughing when I saw the size of VR screen is the same
| size as the screen on the chair in front of him.
| prmoustache wrote:
| Yes and for some reason I would probably find it weird watching
| a moving with a weird landscape being shown around the "virtual
| screen" instead of...reality.
| wizardofaz wrote:
| It can be any size that you'd like.
|
| In fact, the virtual display is higher resolution/high scaled
| than 13 inch MacBook (source:
| https://azadux.blog/2024/10/08/traveling-with-apple-
| vision-p...)
| Manuel_D wrote:
| Sort of. Headsets have limited FOV per eye. You can blow up
| the screen to be huge, but you'd only be able to see part of
| it at a time. But yeah, 110 degrees FOV can accommodate a
| very big screen.
| Terretta wrote:
| I used to wonder how people watch movies on their iPhone then
| realized many people sit so far from their living room TV
| screen that if they held up their iPhone it would be the same
| apparent size.
|
| By contrast, you can readily set the apparent screen size in
| the AVP to 40+ degree angle:
|
| _x 1.2 (corresponding to 40-degree viewing angle)_
|
| _THX recommends that the "best seat-to-screen distance" is one
| where the view angle approximates 40 degrees,[26] (the actual
| angle is 40.04 degrees). Their recommendation was originally
| presented at the 2006 CES show, and was stated as being the
| theoretical maximum horizontal view angle, based on average
| human vision. In the opinion of THX, the location where the
| display is viewed at a 40-degree view angle provides the most
| "immersive cinematic experience", all else being equal. For
| consumer application of their recommendations, THX recommends
| ... multiplying the diagonal measurement by about 1.2._
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_HDTV_viewing_distance
| Manuel_D wrote:
| The field of view is deceptive in 2d photos. With the VR
| headset your focal point is at infinity, and in practice it
| feels more like sitting in front of a big 60" TV on your couch.
| Someone1234 wrote:
| If you kept reading to understand the context of that image,
| you'd realize that it could be any size, but that you need to
| enable "partial virtual environment." That was the entire point
| of that chapter/image, to showcase the three different modes
| (full virtual, partial, and full pass-through with collision).
|
| I'm no fan of the AVP, but it is inane to post a comment on a
| picture from the article without taking the time to read the
| text surrounding it to understand the context. The blog went to
| great pains to set out the pros/cons, limits/advantages, just
| to have people half-read it or just look at the pictures...
| hectdev wrote:
| Another bonus, which I've found traveling with my Vision Pro, is
| when I get to my AirBnb/Hotel, I don't have to log into my
| streaming services when I want to relax. I've brought my whole
| home theater experience with me.
| salzig wrote:
| kinda true, but I'm surprised how some apps expect you to watch
| movies upright (TV+, Disney), which makes watching movies
| laying down quite "non ergonomic". ;)
| crazygringo wrote:
| The Meta Quest 2/3 finally fixed that a few months ago [1],
| where you "tilt" the horizon of the entire OS [2]. So it
| doesn't matter if an app doesn't support it -- you can lie on
| your bed and watch a screen directly above you even if it was
| only designed for horizontal use. It's a game-changer if you
| have back/neck problems.
|
| Does the AVP not have something equivalent? To be honest, I
| was surprised it took Meta so long to get around to
| implementing it.
|
| [1] https://www.engadget.com/you-can-now-lie-down-while-
| using-a-...
|
| [2] https://www.meta.com/en-gb/help/quest/articles/headsets-
| and-...
| kuba-orlik wrote:
| Why would you need to re log-in into streaming services in a
| hotel? How does AVP alleviate that need?
|
| Do you mean you watch it on a smart TV in a hotel? Then I guess
| you could connect a laptop to that TV with an HDMI cable and
| not have to re-log in, right?
| hectdev wrote:
| Correct, I don't have to log into the streaming service on
| the TV. HDMI + Laptop would do this too if I traveled with a
| laptop and HDMI cable.
| bobmcnamara wrote:
| 12kmAh -> 12Ah
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| False.
|
| 12 kilometer * amp * hours is simply a very long lightsaber.
| pmarreck wrote:
| Just putting in my take for the vision-pro-curious, coming from a
| tall/big tech guy with excellent vision who owns one:
|
| I kept mine this whole time and I still actually use it regularly
| and it still amazes me. There's a steady trickle of interesting
| things that appear for it, and it's VERY useful as a giant
| virtual extended laptop screen if you have a Macbook. Especially
| if you are in a recliner and can tilt the virtual screen above
| your head a bit- vastly more comfortable. Very much looking
| forward to the extra large virtual curved monitor they're working
| on, hopefully this fall.
|
| The thing is still kind of magical.
|
| When I first got it, I would get some eye fatigue and/or
| dizziness after about an hour of using it, but that seemed to
| improve after a couple weeks (adaptation?) and I can now use it
| for 2-3 hours at a time uninterrupted without any discomfort.
| Chewing ginger apparently helps (same as with VR headsets).
|
| Drinking coffee from a mug with it on is difficult. Get a straw.
|
| I'm a big guy (6'3", 260lbs) and the headset is still a bit
| heavy.
|
| The gestural and eye-focus UI is extremely good, my only
| complaint is that I still find it hard sometimes not to make
| erroneous inputs which can get frustrating, but that is more the
| fault of web UI's with closely-clustered controls that were not
| designed with this interface in mind- but sometimes with text
| input as well, it's sometimes frustrating.
|
| The quality of the passthrough video (AR) can be improved, it's a
| bit shimmery (although still clear enough to comfortably read
| things on your phone or watch). It's stitched together from a
| bunch of cameras so it is surely already a technical feat.
|
| The FOV is OK, but more is always better.
|
| The immersive environments (and being able to dial them in and
| out) are FANTASTIC. Shout-out to the Bora Bora one in vOS 2.0
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKueDGv4OVQ and the Marvel and
| Star Wars ones provided by the Disney app
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lisof6XWtII&t=491s I also love
| the moon one. Each one has both a "daytime" and "nighttime" view
| as well.
|
| It's fantastic on a plane, if dorky.
| pazimzadeh wrote:
| Haven't used mine in a while, can you recommend some apps for
| it as I try out the 2.0 OS?
| rckt wrote:
| This is not traveling. This is sitting in a plane with Vision
| Pro, instead of sitting at home/office.
| figers wrote:
| I love the tech, but don't want the isolation from reality, I
| like to look around, away from a screen while thinking when I
| work.
|
| I don't mind using my laptop or iPad for movies and work on
| planes...
|
| To each their own...
| Ukv wrote:
| > (the video itself was blacked out when capturing the
| screenshot).
|
| I already disliked DRM like this, where the user's device acts
| against them, but something about the form factor makes me extra
| uneasy about it. Maybe the fact that it's directly on your face,
| integrating tightly with your vision.
|
| Hopefully by the time we move onto AR contact lenses or implants
| there'll be some good user-respecting alternatives, though I'm
| not too hopeful.
| farceSpherule wrote:
| The problem with flying today is deregulation. It made flying
| cheap and for the masses. Completely killed the experience.
| atorodius wrote:
| Recently discovered that on long flights, ear plugs (that just
| block noise, no music!) and a kindle is way more enjoyable for
| me. Less headache. Can't imagine having a vision pro on a 10h
| flight
| asdff wrote:
| I just sleep and teleport
| outcoldman wrote:
| Have AVP since day one. I have traveled probably 5-6 times on
| planes since then. One for the first one I took it with me. Sure,
| it was a nice experience to watch a movie. But I would rather to
| watch the same movie or tv show with SO, than to watch it in a
| questionable better environment. The main issue, it is heavy and
| bulky for traveling.
| isodev wrote:
| > unparalleled opportunity to...
|
| Well, the Vision Pro has no substantial unique features which
| aren't available via the older Quest even.
|
| Sure, Apple over-engineered the lenses to the point of excluding
| people who don't conform to the prescribed possibilities... and
| the App Store is limited to pedestrian experiences of 2D apps
| rebuilt to work on visionOS and a handful of cool VR/MR apps.
|
| All that aside, I wouldn't travel with something so expensive and
| fragile. Putting on and off, looking for where to place it while
| talking with staff / other people... sounds very uncomfortable.
| scudsworth wrote:
| >The fact that you just look at the buttons that you'd like to
| interact with and pinch your fingers while your hand is resting
| on your lap is a massive plus for not looking like a dweeb.
|
| i dunno. repeatedly making little pinchies in your lap with your
| $3500 goggles on still seems very dweeb-coded to me. i almost did
| a spit take when i looked up how much the vision pro costs, lol
| xnx wrote:
| > But damn, based on how well it all works now, you can just tell
| by the 4th or 5th generation, Apple Vision Pro will be on the
| face of every frequent flyer.
|
| A 4th or 5th generation Apple Vision Pro (and other corresponding
| advancements) may obviate the need for a lot of travel.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| I don't know. Memory is not like reality, even computer-
| assisted memory
| dmattia wrote:
| Will it let me feel the breeze at the top of Half Dome?
|
| Or have me chase a squirrel around after it stole my snacks?
|
| Or have me feel the pride of accomplishing a long hike that I
| trained for?
|
| Or let me talk with interesting people along the route and hear
| about their travels?
|
| Or help me find an incredible pizza restaurant with concepts
| that aren't in my local suburban area?
|
| Or give me the health benefits of hiking outdoors?
|
| I'm not sure how a headset could ever obviate the desire for
| travel
| selykg wrote:
| Certain types of travel will always exist. But traveling for
| work? That's an entire idea I can get behind avoiding.
| agos wrote:
| Me too, but if you're not avoiding it now the Apple Vision
| will not make a big difference
| asdff wrote:
| Why can't you avoid it now? Just open zoom. No need for gen
| 5 avp.
| RandomThoughts3 wrote:
| And yet everyone who has ever worked with an offshore
| team knows that nothing beats time spent in the same
| room. I don't expect VR to change that.
| asdff wrote:
| Well when you account for the time spent travelling, the
| time spent socializing and shmoozing, the boxed lunch
| hour, etc, that adds up to a whole lot of wasted time on
| top of what could have easily been a 45 min zoom meeting,
| or an email. Its fun I guess if you get all your social
| outlet from your coworkers, but if you get it from
| anywhere else it probably feels like you just got drafted
| when you get sent to meet the distributed team in person.
| RandomThoughts3 wrote:
| You are missing the point here. Plenty of things can't be
| a 45 minutes meeting. Sometime what you incorrectly call
| schmoozing and I call building a bond is the point and is
| extremely necessary. People are not machine.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| A need for _a lot_ of travel, not _all_ travel.
|
| You mention hiking several times, I assume it is something
| you enjoy. Now, imagine, instead of regularly having to
| travel to Yosemite from your local suburban area, you instead
| go live in Yosemite and use your headset to do the things you
| did in your suburban area. More hiking, less time spent in
| transport.
| rbanffy wrote:
| One feature I'd love to see in see-through VR sets is
| hyperspectral vision. Would be useful to see IR and UV around
| you.
| piyuv wrote:
| Useful how?
| rbanffy wrote:
| Identify hot surfaces could be an obvious thing for IR. For
| UV, you could at least delight yourself with seeing flowers
| the way bees do.
| ane wrote:
| And birds!
|
| https://www.uvbirds.com/
| calf wrote:
| You know how
| urbandw311er wrote:
| That's very funny
| rbanffy wrote:
| That as well.
| AnarchismIsCool wrote:
| In my experience working with multi/hyperspectral systems,
| usually for turning brown kids into various forms of air
| pollution, or at least that's all anyone seems to want to buy
| them for.
|
| Also, as another user is probably allewding to, certain thin
| synthetic fabrics are semi-transparent to particular
| wavelengths in the IR band.
| sterlind wrote:
| how long did you work in the space before your conscience
| caught up with you?
| AnarchismIsCool wrote:
| You're confusing multispectral and hyperspectral. If it was
| hyper you'd have the ability to slide through at image "cube"
| where the z axis is wavelength. Would be cool, but current
| hyperspectral cameras are extremely low resolution because
| they're just a prism array on top of an off the shelf
| panchromatic sensor using blocks of pixels to form that z axis.
| selimnairb wrote:
| If you wear this on a public plane, air marshals should be able
| to automatically render you to a black site.
| dlmatter wrote:
| It's called a deny site.
| edmundsauto wrote:
| Why do you think wearing some tech is a crime? Genuinely
| curious what made you form such an extreme opinion.
| unusualmonkey wrote:
| "The movies that play in virtual screens are native to the films'
| aspect ratios, which can vary movie to movie, eliminating the
| black bars of "letterboxing" and "pillarboxing" you typically
| have on iPads, iPhones, or MacBooks."
|
| Then proceeds to show screenshots where more than 50% of the
| screen is background. Just because you decided to show cloud
| instead of black doesn't mean it's not letterboxing.
| Terretta wrote:
| The screenshots are misleading. "Inside" an AVP watching a
| movie the corner to corner angle can exceed THX recommendation
| of 40 degrees.
|
| Doesn't seem like a lot until you hold a protractor up to your
| eyeball. And then you realize how much area falls outside that
| angle, surroundings you don't think about at the theater.
|
| The AVP has to render that unwatchable area for you as well,
| and it ends up in screenshots.
| unusualmonkey wrote:
| You can do the same thing with any screen by holding it the
| appropriate distance.
|
| Keep in mind that all that unwatchable area is pixels that
| aren't being used to improve the movie image.
| wayeq wrote:
| Airlines should rent these, already set up for movies or
| whatever. I'd pay to give it a try. I wouldn't want these taking
| up my carry on space going to and from the airport or to deal
| with security, so that's another advantage.
| trzy wrote:
| I don't want your pink eye infected skin flakes in my eyes.
| Have you seen how airlines "clean" plane seats?
| LeafItAlone wrote:
| So don't rent it?
|
| There are already tons of places you can go and rent time
| with VR. Or even just 3D movies and experiences where you
| need special glasses.
|
| Airlines already have reusable noise cancelling headphones
| and drink glasses in first class.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| Absolutely not. First, the light seal would be different for
| each person, making for a subpar experience (an experience
| you're paying for). Second, given the germs and potential
| disease spread via the face/eyes, this seems like a terrible
| idea unless you were able to sterilize each AVP after each
| flight, a task that might work for the Bose headphones they put
| in business class, but that would def be a thing I wouldn't
| trust most airlines to do well. Third, you know these things
| would break all the time, again, leading to a subpar rental
| experience.
|
| That said, I am a little surprised the Middle Eastern and Asian
| airlines haven't adopted these for their international first
| class cabins (your Singapore Suites, Ethiad Apartments and the
| private rooms on Emirates).
| dailykoder wrote:
| Can I read a book with it, too? Or just enjoy the boredom without
| much digital interaction?
| phodo wrote:
| you can use the iPad kindle app and it works great.
| posterman wrote:
| weird to film someone doing their job just to prove you could ask
| for tea without taking off your big vr headset. hope they asked
| for permission to post this.
| masterj wrote:
| I am surprised I had to scroll down this far to find this. This
| was deeply upsetting to me
| mlok wrote:
| I was wondering exactly the same : did the flight attendant
| consent to being in a video on the internet while doing her job
| ?
| drewg123 wrote:
| For air travel, I _really_ like my Xreal Air glasses now that I
| have a newer iPhone 16pro. Just plug in the USB-C cable, and you
| have a virtual 60 " screen in front of you which works perfectly
| for Netflix, etc. And they cost less than 10% of the cost of an
| AVP, and are not limited to 2-3 hours of battery life (they get
| power from the phone).
|
| Note that if you have an older (lightning) iPhone, don't bother
| with these. They require a pair of dongles. Not only does that
| make things really awkward, but one of the dongles ends up
| apparently blocking HDCP, and prevents you from using anything
| but ... your own... downloaded content.
| astrostl wrote:
| Still works with a USB-C computer, or tablet, or Xreal's own
| Beam Pro. I'm sticking with my 13 Mini as a phone but still
| happy to travel with Xreal Air glasses.
| cchi_co wrote:
| Keeping things simple and still enjoying all the tech perks
| the_arun wrote:
| I wear prescription glasses. Does Xreal Air help folks like me
| or forces me to use Contacts?
|
| update: nvmd. I found this -
| https://vroptician.com/prescription-lens-inserts/nreal-air
| arbot360 wrote:
| I use the Viture which supports negative prescriptions by an
| adjustment dial on the optics.
| cuvinny wrote:
| Interesting, always wanted to try AR for office work
| because I travel a lot but the glasses part has always been
| a killer. Do they work with Linux at all?
| okasaki wrote:
| I think they're just a usb-c monitor, so no reason it
| wouldn't.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| I got the prescription inserts for the xreal air 2 pro. They
| were a little more expensive than I would've liked ($150 plus
| $40 because I need -8 SPH) but I have somewhat severe myopia.
| balls187 wrote:
| How well does it work with ios screen mirroring? I assume it's
| not like when I plug my iphone into my monitor and I have a
| portrait display.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| It's exactly like that. You get a mirrored display in
| portrait mode. It'll rotate if you disable orientation lock
| and hold it in landscape.
| davidzweig wrote:
| I have Nreal Air glasses (they changed name?), they aren't
| useable for programming really, image is too soft, but neat for
| watching Netflix on the train etc.
| dgellow wrote:
| Can you use them with a steam deck? That would be a pretty cool
| use case!
| longitudinal93 wrote:
| Absolutely. Been travelling with a SD and Xreal Airs for the
| past 2 years. Fantastic for gaming and video consumption.
| jeeva wrote:
| There's also a fantastic plugin specifically for the Steam
| Deck that adds a bunch of excellent functionality.
| parhamn wrote:
| Does such a thing exist that works for coding? Don't need the
| AR. My posture/back could use this for when I'm not working at
| my desk.
| worldsayshi wrote:
| I've been looking for this as well but have never heard
| anyone that found glasses good enough for coding.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| As I get older, a gin and tonic (or two) is what makes air
| travel more relaxing.
| EasyMark wrote:
| Cranberry and vodka but basically yeah
| yapyap wrote:
| a good pair of earbuds is what does it for me
| Scoundreller wrote:
| That and ear plugs _with_ noise cancelling headphones and an
| eye mask and I can sleep through it all.
| derefr wrote:
| Taking a flight as an opportunity to indulge in a moment of
| blissful idleness is great... on a three-hour flight.
|
| But on a 14-hour trans-continental flight, you've gotta have
| _something_ to do. If nothing else, to distract you from how
| uncomfortable it is to be effectively confined to your seat +
| a few feet of narrow walkway for that long. That 's more
| confined than a prison cell!
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Does the screen stay in one place or does it move when you move
| your head? That turned out to be the thing that made viture
| glasses unusable for me. I get that slam can be hard but I
| would be okay with sticking a target sticker up somewhere in my
| field of view and having the glasses force the screen there.
| alpb wrote:
| I just did a two-way total 12 hour Hawaii flight and watched 12
| hours of Apple TV series in a fully immersive environment
| completely isolated using Vision Pro. As long as the airplane
| seats have AC charger, you're good to go. I also use the Dual
| Solo Knit Band mod to increase head comfort.
| AceJohnny2 wrote:
| One gotcha to add:
|
| Remember to _turn off_ the AVP between charging it at home and
| using it on the flight. You do this by "choking" it, i.e.
| pressing both buttons physical for ~10s, to bring up the "Power
| Off" dialog, so it's really not obvious.
|
| I once had my AVP completely discharge between charging it one
| night, and wanting to use it on the flight <24h later. I'm
| guessing that the motion from the packing and trip to the airport
| was constantly waking it up, draining power.
| kridsdale3 wrote:
| I think it's just constantly on Wifi, checking for updates,
| like any iOS device.
| cchi_co wrote:
| A forward-thinking perspective, balancing enthusiasm with
| pragmatism. Yet is Apple really onto something that could
| transform how frequent travelers engage with tech on the go?
| marinhero wrote:
| If the truly cared about that they would let us run a desktop
| OS on their iPhones so we don't carry laptops all around.
| steelframe wrote:
| My concerns are around the normalization of pointing high-
| resolution cameras at people around you all the time. Perhaps
| this specific device may have a company behind it that, at least
| at the moment, will resist handing the video feed with you in it
| to the data brokers.
|
| Make no mistake though, the data brokers are foaming at the mouth
| to get access to high-resolution constantly-streaming video
| content that includes your face, your location, and your
| activities. Imagine the sorts of things that are going to be sold
| to whoever is buying.
|
| "Jake Jacobs, who is married, is striking up a lengthy
| conversation with the young woman seated next to him. His wife
| might be interested in ads for divorce lawyers."
|
| "Jeff Jones is taking a middle-of-the-week flight to San Jose,
| and he just finished writing an email to a recruiter from another
| company who is based out of that city. His company is paying the
| data broker for intel on employees who may be shopping around, so
| let's get this info to them stat."
|
| "Jennifer Smith looks to be 3 months pregnant and is flying from
| Texas to Colorado. She's reading a Planned Parenthood pamphlet.
| The State of Texas passed a law in 2026 requiring data brokers to
| report on such activities, so of course we'll let them know."
|
| As competing products come along that are cheaper than the Apple
| doohickies in part because of the subsidies they get from the
| data brokers, portable VR headsets are going to bring along a
| significant deterioration of our already-dismal privacy
| protections.
| hammock wrote:
| >My concerns are around the normalization of pointing high-
| resolution cameras at people around you all the time.
|
| This already exists with CCTVs on every major city streetcorner
| and Ring cameras on every doorstep. Not to mention Tesla cloud-
| connected cameras pointed inward and outward.
| massysett wrote:
| Most of the CCTV and Ring cameras are pretty lousy and
| they're in fixed locations. All the time I'll be out walking
| and hear an obnoxious "You are currently being recorded"
| announcement, but I'm far enough away from that cheap camera
| that I'm probably a shadowy figure in a grainy video.
|
| These VR headsets on the other hand are high-quality, very
| close to other people, and mobile.
| hammock wrote:
| >Most of the CCTV and Ring cameras are pretty lousy and
| they're in fixed locations.
|
| The CCTVs in Chicago are 360 degree panning plus up/down,
| and can zoom-in four blocks away with enough resolution to
| make out a face and license plate.
| https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/09/29/chicago-police-
| cam....
|
| Here is an example of the cameras in action:
| https://x.com/CWBChicago/status/1445124776742227980
| oefnak wrote:
| Did you have to pick a video where somebody is killed?
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Don't confuse temporary with forever. I remember folks
| dismissing digital cameras out of hand, and now you can
| barely buy an alternative.
| heeton wrote:
| I feel it's harder for a tesla to capture footage of a
| teenager reading a pamphlet on a plane, but who knows what
| Elon's plans are.
| hammock wrote:
| The airlines can do that themselves:
|
| "Newer seat-back entertainment systems on some airplanes
| operated by American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, United
| Airlines and Singapore Airlines have cameras, and it's
| likely they are also on planes used by other carriers."
| https://apnews.com/article/4c3ca3b46c704c6080ba026729fc8d21
| renewiltord wrote:
| Oh yeah, no, you're definitely streaming high-definition video
| from the airplane. You'd better put your phone in airplane
| mode. The front camera is silently recording and selling your
| complaints about the airplane food to a competing airline in
| full HD. Some say they can tell from your pores. Airlines
| specifically upgraded in-flight wifi to 100 Gbps upload so that
| we could get seamless data brokering on-demand. A data broker I
| know sometimes hits a button to get instant live-streaming
| access to the inside of the seatback pocket. He really likes
| it. "He's watching Modern Family S4 E3" he laughed the other
| day. "He doesn't know the airline doesn't have S4 E4! He's
| going to be so disappointed"
| alexashka wrote:
| Yes, the chairs on the Titanic aren't perfectly aligned with
| one another.
| tqi wrote:
| This is complete science fiction / FUD. Amazon can't even stop
| showing you ads for vacuum cleaners after you buy a vacuum
| cleaner, you think they have the compute for something that
| sophisticated?
| Aeolun wrote:
| It'd probably be mostly happening on-device. Why waste their
| own compute on it when they can just drain your battery and
| send themselves only the pertinent details.
| gizajob wrote:
| If I saw someone wearing one of these on a flight, I'd think they
| were a complete dickhead.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| Really interesting point about the utility of the look-and-pinch
| interaction rather than waving your hands around in the tight
| space confines of the plane. This was definitely my main issue
| using the Quest which was otherwise a fantastic experience.
| bsimpson wrote:
| I've never tried traveling wearing a VR headset, but I did get a
| Legion Go that I like to use in that scenario. It's basically a
| Steam Deck with a nicer screen, more powerful GPU, and shit
| battery that needs to be constantly charged.
|
| As I learned when I tried to charge it with a 140W Apple charger,
| planes have current limitations. If you plug in too high of a
| wattage charger, it can totally disable the power socket.
|
| One of the dances to figure out if you're going to use a VR
| headset on a plane is how high a wattage can the plane constantly
| support. Then again, you probably don't want your face physically
| tethered to the middle seat anyway.
| yapyap wrote:
| yeugh
| seydor wrote:
| Maybe the devices found their target audience: airlines
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Airlines spend a fortune moving screen and other kit needed for
| in-flight entertainment around: the fuel costs alone can be low
| seven figures a year for that added weight. And then are the
| content licenses.
|
| Meanwhile customers are turning up with devices with their own
| licensed content (they've already paid the streaming services
| or paid for the download), but can't use it on the plane.
|
| It's pretty obvious what should happen, and what eventually
| will, but it'll take a while.
| sterlind wrote:
| too expensive and fragile for airlines themselves, at least
| outside of first class, but I think air travel is a killer app.
|
| I do find the idea of a plane full of goggled humans packed in
| like sardines to be a touch dystopian, but I feel that way
| about the infotainment screens already.
| tqi wrote:
| > In fact, of all the screens and displays in my house, my Vision
| Pro is hands down the highest quality display that I own, so I
| very much look forward to watching visually compelling movies in
| it.
|
| How does a vision pro compare to a say 60 inch 4K tv, in terms of
| perceived sharpness (I get that it has more pixels, but they are
| closer to your eye and cover your whole field of view)? I owned
| an OG quest, and for me watching movies just didn't quite match
| up to the experience of an actual tv.
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