[HN Gopher] Apple introduces iPad mini built for Apple Intelligence
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple introduces iPad mini built for Apple Intelligence
        
       Author : diwank
       Score  : 312 points
       Date   : 2024-10-15 14:35 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | 234120987654 wrote:
       | A17 Pro huh, that's a first for putting a pro chip in a non pro
       | iPad, isn't it? I guess it's, as they advertise, to handle Apple
       | Intelligence although I don't understand why they are doubling
       | down on this _now_ while nothing from the newly announced AI
       | stuff is available as of today...
        
         | mcintyre1994 wrote:
         | I'm guessing the delays to Apple Intelligence came late in the
         | process and it was supposed to release with the new iPhones?
         | And then they just left hardware plans as-is when the software
         | got delayed.
        
           | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
           | I'm guessing they were aiming for iOS 18 but caved to what
           | they perceived was the popular demand at the time
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | It makes sense, the iPad Pros graduated to using full blown M
         | series chips so the A Pro chips they used to use can filter
         | down the stack.
         | 
         | edit: oops I mixed up A Pro and A X
        
           | JonathonW wrote:
           | The A17 Pro (originally in the iPhone 15 Pro; now also in the
           | iPad Mini) and A18 Pro (currently only in the iPhone 16 Pro)
           | are the only chips Apple has produced with a "Pro" suffix.
           | 
           | Apple used to use the X suffix for bigger versions of their
           | phone processors that went into iPads (starting with the
           | A5X); that went away when the M-series was introduced.
           | 
           | And the "Pro" suffix itself doesn't seem to denote anything
           | in particular-- there was never a non-Pro A17, and the "A17
           | Pro" going into the iPad Mini is itself a cut-down version of
           | the chip that went into the iPhone 15 Pro (it has one GPU
           | core disabled).
        
       | jerojero wrote:
       | I wish they had improved the screen a little bit as well.
       | 
       | It makes sense to update the model with apple intelligence but
       | that might not be enough for a lot of people to upgrade.
       | 
       | Perhaps we're looking at a device that simply will be out of
       | lineup soon (next few years).
       | 
       | I do like this form factor a lot though, well, eventually we'll
       | get foldable phones to become mainstream I hope.
        
         | lovethevoid wrote:
         | The alleged roadmap leak indicates they're aiming for 2026/2027
         | foldable screens (no word on whether it's horizontal or
         | vertical) so if all goes according to plan, you would be right
         | that this is the last update for the "iPad mini" device.
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | There was some chatter on Macrumors that they flipped the
         | orientation of the controller board so that the Jelly scrolling
         | will be gone when used in portrait mode. That was the #1
         | display complaint on the outgoing model, so if its true then
         | I'd count that as a win on improving the screen.
        
           | seunosewa wrote:
           | Wouldn't that cause jelly scrolling in landscape mode?
        
             | matrix2003 wrote:
             | I think so, but fewer people use it in that orientation
             | when reading.
        
         | bananapub wrote:
         | > It makes sense to update the model with apple intelligence
         | but that might not be enough for a lot of people to upgrade.
         | 
         | that's fine? it's a very mature segment - medium-price small
         | screen tablet. it hasn't even really been updated since 2021,
         | and that was basically new case+usb-c.
        
           | volemo wrote:
           | I thought the case and USB-C were in iPad mini already?
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | Mature segment? Is there any other tablet with a square
           | aspect ratio that is smaller than 10"? Two years ago I was on
           | the market, I only remember Microsoft's Surfaces, which are
           | all 10", no other square tablets.
        
             | hollandheese wrote:
             | Well.. technically you could say the Google Pixel Fold.
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | The iPads are basically appliances. They release a new model
           | of fridge every year but I've never once considered
           | "Upgrading" my existing one.
           | 
           | My 2014 ipad air 2 is only just starting to feel old.
        
             | chemmail wrote:
             | The base models maybe, but the Pros have crazy OLEDs that
             | almost have me drooling. The speed hasn't changed much, i
             | just got a 11 Pro with M1 and it isn't any faster in normal
             | stuff than the A12 on my 12.9". I always get my Apple
             | devices from used shops and got my 11 Pro for $250 when it
             | was 2 gens old and feel I won't get the OLED one till I
             | find one for $300ish.
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | > I wish they had improved the screen a little bit as well.
         | 
         | What do you mean, the iPad mini has a higher ppi (326) vs iPad
         | Air (264).
         | 
         | I think the issue is that, iPad OS is scaling the display to a
         | weird resolution.
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/
        
           | fckgw wrote:
           | Probably a 120hz screen like the Pro has
        
             | michpoch wrote:
             | Then it'd also get the IPad Pro price?
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | 120hz panels are dirt cheap at this point, look beyond
               | the Apple ecosystem and they're everywhere at nearly
               | every price point. Even barebones office monitors meant
               | for doing spreadsheets are often ~100hz now, there's no
               | reason to make them 60hz when faster panels are more or
               | less the same price.
        
               | heraldgeezer wrote:
               | >120hz panels are dirt cheap at this point
               | 
               | So is storage and RAM but every OEM has their added
               | vendor tax and so does Apple.
               | 
               | 2TB Samsung pro nvme SSD is 170$, how much is 2TB Apple
               | storage...
               | 
               | Same with screens.
        
               | michpoch wrote:
               | > now, there's no reason to make them 60hz
               | 
               | Product differentiation.
               | 
               | Promotion is a way to make clients upgrade to iPad Pro.
               | One of the very few left.
        
           | hollandheese wrote:
           | It's much less bright than the iPad Pro and iPhone in
           | daylight. In a bright day it's barely visible.
           | 
           | And adding OLED would make it the great for nighttime
           | reading.
        
           | mort96 wrote:
           | Who mentioned DPI?
        
       | tommica wrote:
       | Looks really nice, wish could afford it, but Apple products are
       | so expensive... Commodity products for premium price
        
         | skadamat wrote:
         | I usually like to buy these 1-2 years old off Craigslist /
         | Marketplace and that's been a sweet spot for price and quality.
         | 
         | Apple has always been about premium price and quality but I
         | agree that it's not for everyone and their needs.
        
         | mezeek wrote:
         | It's ok, lotsa people have the money for it.
        
         | auc wrote:
         | Apple products are not commodity, because there is very little
         | fungibility due to network effects.
         | 
         | Maybe their hardware is commodity (arguable), but the product +
         | integrations are not.
        
         | meroes wrote:
         | Many of these devices aren't actually fungible commodities
         | though.I tried to buy a phone in the $200 range and Android
         | phones were so much worse than used iPhones. I they would drop
         | calls and freeze on the dial pad during long calls where I was
         | on hold. Tried two different models and had the same issues. I
         | could have tried a used $200 Android but I was not wanting to
         | try for a third Android. All I wanted/needed was to make
         | important calls.
         | 
         | So I guess I don't see them as commodities which implies
         | fungibility.
        
           | II2II wrote:
           | I realize that there are bad Androids out there and the
           | abundance of choice makes it difficult to sift through the
           | good and the bad, but there are good Android phones out there
           | in the $200-$300 USD range. My current phone is a bit over
           | three years old and it is still very usable.
        
             | dsissitka wrote:
             | Especially with companies like Motorola. The 2022 Edge cost
             | $400 on release. A bit over a year later it was on sale for
             | $140.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | > All I wanted/needed was to make important calls.
           | 
           | Can I recommend you a 40EUR _phone_? They 've been making
           | models that can do calls for a while now and they needn't
           | cost as much as an Apple-branded device to do just that
           | 
           | > they would drop calls and freeze on the dial pad during
           | long calls
           | 
           | Never heard that happen to anyone with any phone model. If
           | you've ruled out some software-specific issue like a call
           | recorder you've installed or so, that sounds borderline
           | implausible. Then again, given the number of issues I
           | experience with software (of any kind)...
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | Smartphones failing to make phone calls is not exactly an
             | unknown concept.
             | 
             | https://www.tomsguide.com/news/some-pixel-users-cant-
             | dial-91...
             | 
             | https://www.slashgear.com/842545/why-antennagate-was-a-
             | compl...
             | 
             | https://www.online-tech-tips.com/android-phone-wont-make-
             | cal...
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | What's with the sour grapes? I can't afford a Pagani. Doesn't
         | mean I can't appreciate the engineering.
        
           | tommica wrote:
           | Not sure why you're calling me "sour grapes"? I only lamented
           | the fact that I could not afford the thing
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | "Commodity products for premium price" definitely sounds
             | like sour grapes.
             | 
             | If the products are actually commodity, just buy something
             | else.
        
             | accrual wrote:
             | I was curious what was meant by that too too, turns out
             | it's a legitimate phrase in the dictionary:
             | 
             | sour grapes, plural noun, disparagement of something that
             | has proven unattainable
             | 
             | > his criticisms are just sour grapes
             | 
             | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sour%20grapes
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Its commodity you can buy from dozens of other vendors for much
         | cheaper price.
        
           | skywhopper wrote:
           | Uh, where can I buy a cheaper iPad?
        
             | lucb1e wrote:
             | And while we're at it, can someone finally tell me where
             | people find cheap ferraris? I really want a car but they're
             | just too expensive!
        
           | dmitrygr wrote:
           | Then buy it there instead of complaining?
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | They are hardly commodities. The build quality and lifetime of
         | iPads is incredible compared to any other tablet I've ever used
         | (typing this on a six year old iPad Pro that's still going
         | strong).
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | I recently traded in my 5-year-old iPad Pro because it was
           | badly banged up, and they still offered me ~$400 in trade-in
           | value. Great iPads.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | True, but they last long enough that you can get them second
         | hand, whereas used products from other vendors tend to be junk
         | not worth spending money on even at a cheaper price point.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | Also when buying second hand, you pay for that premium brand
        
         | Findecanor wrote:
         | There is a definite lack of worthy competitors to the iPad Mini
         | in the market. Most other tablets are 10" or larger. The only
         | other contemporary tablets I've found in that size have had
         | very low-end specs in comparison.
        
           | tommica wrote:
           | True - long time ago I had the "new ipad", and it was really,
           | really nice - lasted me for years, until I could no longer
           | update it.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | The iPad lineup starts at $350, and that's brand new, look used
         | or refurbished and it becomes even cheaper. If that's too much
         | for you, you'll be pressed to afford any computer.
        
       | bonaldi wrote:
       | The mini is the absolute sweet spot for me - enough portability
       | that I don't mind the many restrictions of iPad OS. But the
       | A-line chips and low-quality screen are problems, and not being
       | able to properly dock it at a monitor is a real hinderance. None
       | of those are addressed here, unfortunately.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Considering the bestselling laptops at Walmart for $400-500
         | still sometimes have Twisted Nematic displays, I think the
         | screen is fine.
         | 
         | I also don't get the complaint about the A-series chip. What
         | does an M1 unlock in iPadOS that the A17 doesn't?
        
           | skydhash wrote:
           | I think stage manager? And the A1 can get hot sometimes (PDFs
           | and Procreate).
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | I can't find any mention of Stage Manager being supported
             | on this device - so either it doesn't, or the help pages
             | haven't been updated yet.
             | 
             | I will say though the criticism of the A-series getting hot
             | doesn't make sense. If the A-series gets hot, the M-series
             | is going to be boiling in that tiny chassis.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | > I will say though the criticism of the A-series getting
               | hot doesn't make sense. If the A-series gets hot, the
               | M-series is going to be boiling in that tiny chassis.
               | 
               | Depends on a particular A and M chip, tho.
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | The screen has the same pixel density as the iPhones'. Which
           | is better than any other iPad model's.
        
           | enragedcacti wrote:
           | If were picking random stuff to compare it against, for $250
           | Motorola will sell you a phone with a 6.7", 395ppi, 120hz
           | OLED screen. It also comes with a stylus and has 256GB
           | storage standard.
           | 
           | Obviously these aren't directly comparable products but
           | neither are iPads and budget laptops, and Apple asks $750 for
           | a model with equivalent storage and a cellular modem. For a
           | lot of people the screen probably is perfectly adequate but I
           | can also see why some potential buyers would be pretty
           | disappointed given the price point, especially since unlike
           | the air apple doesn't even offer an upsell option at this
           | size.
        
           | ako wrote:
           | The M1 allows you to use it like a proper laptop for
           | productivity: hook it up to an external display, keyboard and
           | mouse, and it's a perfect machine for ms-word, PowerPoint or
           | excel. I have my iPad Air connected to a 32 inch monitor for
           | video editing with Final Cut Pro.
        
         | labcomputer wrote:
         | > and not being able to properly dock it at a monitor is a real
         | hinderance
         | 
         | Can you expand on that? It seems to support DisplayPort over
         | USB-C, and there are a number of 1st and 3rd party adapters
         | that have DP out, power in, and a USB2.0 plug for your other
         | devices. What does "properly" docking it look like?
        
           | bonaldi wrote:
           | The A-series chips only support screen mirroring; with the
           | M-class iPads you can have stage manager and multiple windows
           | across two displays; and the main display runs at native
           | resolution. It's a far better (though still flawed)
           | experience.
        
           | jchulce wrote:
           | There are a bunch of UX differences between an iPad and a
           | laptop while connected to a docking station that make using
           | an iPad in that manner not quite satisfactory. For example,
           | the iPad's screen always has to be on - while you can choose
           | to either mirror or extend your desktop environment, you
           | can't use only the external monitors and shut your case like
           | you can with a laptop.
        
         | whiteboardr wrote:
         | Was patiently waiting for the mini getting an update - i don't
         | care as much for the screen, CPU etc. but not moving the front
         | facing camera to the side, hence landscape friendly position is
         | beyond me.
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | The whole chassis is weak, old... One camera still? Lame...
           | The thermals are mediocre, at best. And the iPhone 15 Pro I
           | just got makes me look forward to the winter. I expect
           | similar experiences with this. When you write/draw _on_ it,
           | it does get hot. Same battery life is not bad, but it could
           | use some more when you use the Pencil. Touch ID is another
           | very _very_ weird thing to keep. I wonder what sort of market
           | buys that and they don 't want to upgrade anything... It
           | feels so weird...
           | 
           | If you check Apple's comparison, at least on that overview,
           | it seems they changed only the processor, networking, that
           | HDR thingy on the camera, and... that's all. Everything else
           | is the same.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | > One camera still? Lame...
             | 
             | It's a tablet, not a phone. No number of cameras is going
             | to make it into a good device for taking photos.
        
         | smileybarry wrote:
         | Speaking of screens, I wonder if they fixed the jelly scroll.
         | It doesn't bother me _that_ much on my mini, but it would be
         | ridiculous to keep that flaw as-is in the newer gen.
        
           | NotYourLawyer wrote:
           | The what?
        
             | loopdoend wrote:
             | They are referring to the screen lagging/tearing while
             | scrolling
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | I'm guessing Apple is using an IPS panel meant for
             | landscape orientation (i.e. the image scans from the
             | top/bottom) in a device mostly used in portrait
             | orientation. This causes rolling shutter distortion when
             | scrolling contents.
        
             | accrual wrote:
             | It's basically screen tearing, apparently because the top
             | and bottom of the display (or left and right in other
             | orientations) refresh at different rates. iFixit suggests
             | its a controller issue.
             | 
             | > Update, 9/28/2021: In response to our inquiry, Apple has
             | told us that the "jelly scroll" issue on the 6th-generation
             | iPad mini is normal behavior for LCD screens.
             | 
             | > Update, 9/30/2021: An iFixit teardown suggests that the
             | iPad mini's more noticeable scrolling issue is a byproduct
             | of how the display controller is mounted.
             | 
             | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/2021-ipad-mini-
             | suffe...
             | 
             | FWIW, my 5th Gen Mini doesn't have this issue.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | The real fix would be for them to stop being so stingy with
           | 120hz panels, as long as they keep using 60hz ones they're
           | going to be prone to jelly scrolling in one orientation or
           | the other. With 60hz the best you can hope for is that the
           | orientation you use the most often is the good one this time.
        
         | dartos wrote:
         | > enough portability that I don't mind the many restrictions of
         | iPad OS.
         | 
         | Would it be a sweeter spot without those restrictions?
         | 
         | I hate that I can't code on my iPad Pro.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | Get a-Shell, iSH, etc.
        
             | dartos wrote:
             | Yeah I mean sure, but they are all extremely limited
             | emulators.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | If you meant "not having Stage Manager", I'm genuinely
         | surprised the A18 Pro wasn't considered powerful enough to run
         | it, given that it outperforms the M1 that was. The only thing I
         | could think of is that Apple thinks the smaller screen is too
         | small for Stage Manager.
         | 
         | I still think they should support it anyway, even if only for
         | three apps at a time on the primary display. iPadOS is weirdly
         | bifurcated into two different window management strategies
         | (Split View vs. Stage Manager) based on what device you bought,
         | which is confusing. They should be expanding Stage Manager to
         | as many devices as possible.
        
           | nimar wrote:
           | check out: https://github.com/straight-tamago/misakaX
           | 
           | it allows you to enable stage manager on an ipad mini without
           | problems and without needing to jailbreak or similar :). the
           | only gotcha is, that the ipad mini doesn't support more than
           | 1080p output, therefore, if you connect a 4k screen it will
           | remain blank.
           | 
           | would love to know if the ipad mini 7 now supports 4k - would
           | actually be a meaningful upgrade then.
        
             | kmeisthax wrote:
             | That's cool and all, but 18.1 killed the exploit this uses
             | to write the MobileGestalt file. Which means if you buy a
             | mini 7 _now_ , you're probably not going to be able to
             | force-enable Stage Manager like this.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | It's sad that "ultraportable iPad" marketing works, but
       | "ultraportable iPhone" does not make sense for most people.
       | 
       | iPhone 13 mini was the last flagship smartphone with such
       | dimensions.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | How long do we have on the 13 mini before it becomes so slow I
         | have to get a new phone? I don't know what I'll do at that
         | point. On the 12 mini now and can never go to a big phone.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | Probably a couple of more years provided you can keep
           | replacing your battery. I'm on a 13 Pro Max which has the
           | same SoC as a 13 Mini and while I might want a battery
           | replacement within the next year, the phone itself has no
           | performance issues. I think the iPhone 12 model line is
           | essentially in the same boat, just a little bit older and
           | with worse batteries.
        
             | thejsa wrote:
             | The battery was the main reason I moved from my 12 mini to
             | a 15 (save for USB-C) -- just wasn't holding up, even after
             | a replacement. I still hold out for a 17 mini, though.
        
           | zie wrote:
           | A few years still. The XR is still supported with iOS 18.
        
           | sdo72 wrote:
           | My 3 years old iPhone mini 13 is still very fast, reliable,
           | and I love every part of the phone. It's such an amazing
           | phone that functions well. The only thing got worsened is the
           | battery, now at 87% even though I always charge it to 80-85%,
           | now I have to charge it to 100% to use through the day. I
           | still have extra power (like 30%) for a whole day. Replacing
           | the battery isn't a problem. If Apple does support it like
           | other models, it should last another 4-5 years more. I have
           | no plan to upgrade to anything as I don't see anything
           | comparable on the horizon.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | Nothing wrong with continuing to use the iPhone 13 Mini today:
         | Apple CPU has been so far ahead of the competition that apart
         | from on-device generative AI there's nothing that hugely pushes
         | it. For data, search for "single-core" and "multi-core" in
         | https://infrequently.org/2024/01/performance-inequality-gap-...
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | The typical iPhone Mini product cycle:
         | 
         | Make iPhone Mini -> Mini only accounts for 10% of sales ->
         | Cancel iPhone Mini -> Notice that 10% of iPhone customers
         | haven't updated for 3 or 4 cycles -> Make iPhone Mini -> Suffer
         | crippling corporate amnesia -> <...>
         | 
         | I'm expecting the brain worms to reach step 4 of the corporate
         | consciousness cycle around the next generation or so.
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | One can hope.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | I wonder if that was their attempt to make the iPhone SE have
           | a legitimate place with the other iPhones? Not sure, but it
           | is interesting that no matter what, they always sell the SE.
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | only the 12 and 13 had mini sizes, so not really. unless you
           | are counting the SE1 as mini
        
             | samatman wrote:
             | Dimensions:
             | 
             | SE1: 123.8 x 58.6 x 7.6
             | 
             | Mini 13: 131.5 x 64.2 x 7.65
             | 
             | Counting the original SE as a mini is perfectly reasonable.
             | 
             | It's also quite clearly what the grandparent comment was
             | referring to.
        
               | pazimzadeh wrote:
               | In that case the first six years of iPhone models were
               | also minis. None were cancelled due to low sales. The
               | original SE was also not cancelled due to low sales, it
               | continued to sell extremely well for years after its
               | release. Apart from the 12/13 minis, the only model that
               | had low sales was the 5C, which is actually a little
               | larger than the 5S.
               | 
               | The rule for the SE is that it always has the design of
               | second most recent hardware design, regardless of size.
               | 
               | If Apple re-introduces a mini, that will be the first
               | such 'cycle.'
        
       | sroussey wrote:
       | A17 Pro and WiFi 6E like the iPhone 15 Pro, not like the iPhone
       | 16 series.
        
       | jessekv wrote:
       | The lineup sizes are filling in, a bit like A-series paper.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size
        
       | throwaway48476 wrote:
       | It is interesting that one of their examples is a "community
       | repair fair", they want to market a sheen of social
       | responsibility without actually taking part themselves.
        
         | ranunez64 wrote:
         | It is interesting that one of their examples is a "Mahjong
         | Club", they want to market a sheen of board game enthusiasm
         | without actually taking part themselves.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Lowkey wish their laptops would be as they used to be. Being
         | able to swap RAM or hard drives is so basic but so useful.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | Drives in particular. Let them solder the memory if they
           | absolutely have to, but exposing even an empty NVMe slot
           | should be standard for laptops. Unfortunately, Apple makes a
           | pretty penny off the storage surcharge so I wouldn't really
           | anticipate that anytime soon.
        
             | loopdoend wrote:
             | I will accept the trade off for the performance boost tbh.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | What performance boost? As in, same software running for
               | comparison on the hardware of interest, one soldered and
               | the other not. I never heard that soldering your SSD on
               | makes it faster...
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | It doesn't, Apples SSD performance is fine but
               | unremarkable. Their current machines will do around
               | ~6GB/sec read and ~5GB/sec write, which isn't even at the
               | limit of socketed PCIe4 NVMe drives, nevermind the
               | bleeding edge PCIe5 drives which can do up to ~14GB/sec
               | read and ~12GB/sec write (albeit with excessive heat and
               | power consumption for a laptop).
               | 
               | Soldering the RAM has legitimate performance benefits,
               | but soldering the SSD is just to save space and upsell
               | overpriced upgrades.
        
               | throwaway48476 wrote:
               | It's crazy that some people think it's apple so it must
               | be special and better not realizing NVMe is a industry
               | standard.
        
               | loopdoend wrote:
               | Sorry I was referring to the boost you get from having
               | ram integrated into the chip vis-a-vis apple's M-line of
               | processors.
               | 
               | Having replaceable ram is not really a marketable feature
               | these days.
        
               | angoragoats wrote:
               | This might be nitpicking but 1) the ram is not integrated
               | into the chip, per se, it's still discrete and soldered
               | on a PCB right next to the CPU, and 2) the increased
               | speed comes from additional memory channels built into
               | the M-series CPUs, not necessarily the fact that the
               | memory is closer to the CPU.
               | 
               | It is true that it's not currently feasible to have
               | socketed memory in a laptop offering 8+ memory channels
               | to enable 200GB/sec+ bandwidth, but you can absolutely
               | get the same (or greater!) memory speeds as an M-series
               | CPU from an x86 desktop workstation.
               | 
               | If Intel/AMD wanted to prioritize memory bandwidth, they
               | could probably work with JEDEC or another industry org to
               | develop a new standard for socketed memory with multiple
               | channels per socket, to enable the kind of speeds that
               | Apple offers. The fact that they haven't (to my
               | knowledge) indicates to me that they don't see it as a
               | big enough priority or benefit.
        
             | franciscop wrote:
             | They no longer even have a "memory" chip anymore, it's all
             | part of the same SOC AFAIK, so they cannot "solder" it.
        
               | angoragoats wrote:
               | The RAM is still very much bog-standard DDR4/DDR5 chips,
               | soldered on a PCB right next to the CPU. Here's an
               | example pic of an M3 motherboard. The CPU/GPU is under
               | the metal piece with the Apple logo on it, and the memory
               | is the two rectangular chips immediately above that.
               | 
               | https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-
               | content/uploads/2023/08/M3-Macs....
        
               | delfinom wrote:
               | You are thinking of the iPhones.
               | 
               | All the ARM Macs are separate memory chips.
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | Even when Apple laptops had removable solid state storage,
             | it used a non-standard connector[1]. Very consumer and
             | repair hostile. While OWC still made thirds party drives
             | for these[2], few (no?) other companies did.
             | 
             | [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-
             | ultimate-gu...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | Hot air rework is more accessible than ever. This video is
           | kinda over-the-top breathless, but removing components and
           | reballing new ones isn't rocket science.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/apEKAY11NQs?t=328
        
             | wasabinator wrote:
             | It is and will always be rocket science to most people, and
             | orders of magnitude more difficult than swapping a drive or
             | ram sticks.
        
             | e44858 wrote:
             | Apple has been gluing down the NAND on their phones:
             | https://youtu.be/KRRNR4HyYaw
             | 
             | If that practice spreads to the MacBooks, you'll also need
             | a CNC mill.
        
           | aucisson_masque wrote:
           | I have a mac, absolutely love it, hate windows and yet my
           | next laptop will be windows because of that.
           | 
           | You don't realize how much it matters until it does, and then
           | it changes everything. Always having to carry an external
           | drive just because my email takes 150gb of the 256gb MacBook
           | storage is even more annoying than windows puting candy crush
           | saga on the start menu.
        
             | bschwindHN wrote:
             | > just because my email takes 150gb
             | 
             | You have a very different email life than me. Is that like,
             | all emails received in your life, or just huge attachments?
        
               | dankwizard wrote:
               | He's replaced Github repos with local email archives
               | because a Medium article said "One trick to enhance your
               | version control"
        
               | aucisson_masque wrote:
               | It's only a few years but lot and lot of attachment.
               | Unoptimized pdf takes a big chunk.
        
               | myroon5 wrote:
               | Could look into email attachment optimization tooling
               | like https://unattach.app/
        
             | chemmail wrote:
             | Unfortunately with DDR5L speeds, they need to be embedded
             | to keep signal stability, so you need to find at least a
             | 16GB laptop which is STILL pretty gatekept with a higher
             | chip like i7 so you have to pay $300 more for that extra
             | 8GB, pulling a page from Apple. Luckily m.2 is still a
             | thing and 99% of Windows still use it.
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | Why do you need 150G of mail locally? and why did you think
             | it sufficient to bug the absolute minimum spec available?
             | 
             | I'm afraid though that the core premise of your comment is
             | flawed. Storage and especially memory are increasingly
             | soldered to thin and lights. Even professional grade
             | laptops such as the Thinkpad X1 Carbon have soldered
             | memory.
             | 
             | https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-scourge-of-fully-
             | soldered-...
        
             | fsflover wrote:
             | Did you consider Linux instead?
        
             | freedomben wrote:
             | If you hate Windows, you should really consider Linux
             | instead. Gnome is quite enjoyable and can be relatively
             | easily made to behave similarly to the macos DE. Fedora
             | works pretty well OOTB on most hardware. If you buy as
             | Frame.work[1] laptop, Fedora will install and run very
             | well.
             | 
             | [1] Dislaimer: I'm a community investor in Framework but
             | have three of them because I like them a lot.
        
           | crossroadsguy wrote:
           | My next self-purchased laptop is also going to be one that is
           | not a Mac and buying a 2-3 year extended warranty wouldn't
           | cost half or one third of its price. It will also not
           | increase its price by 25-30% if I choose to double the RAM
           | (and by double I mean 8 to 16, not 32 or so). I asked an
           | Apple fan once why Apple still has 8GB RAM even in their pro
           | models and I got the response because it's Apple, you don't
           | need more than 8GB RAM. And I actually realised why Apple
           | gets away with such practises. They are like the 99.978% of
           | Apple's customer base. They stand in queues to get the latest
           | Apple device and then cry out of joy.
           | 
           | I bought a Dell laptop in 2007 and I was able to "deselect"
           | Windows and it actually had reduced the price. I could do
           | that in the third world and online and in 2007 (again!). I
           | also got home repair in not a tier 1 city of that third world
           | country. I think we went degradingly backwards from there.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | It's a bit of filler text in a demo. You might be reading a
         | little too much into it.
        
         | geon wrote:
         | At least the iphone 16 has electrically released adhesive.
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41623251
        
           | throwaway48476 wrote:
           | That is actually innovative and a feature. It shows what
           | smart engineering can do when the design goal is not user
           | hostile.
        
         | illwrks wrote:
         | I spotted that too, I got a laugh out of it. Committed non-
         | commitment.
        
       | kokada wrote:
       | Would be nice if Apple also introduced a new base iPad with at
       | least support for a decent Apple Pencil. I want to buy my wife an
       | iPad, but she wants to draw and the Apple Pencil USB-C doesn't
       | support presure levels, so it is either a base iPad with an old
       | Apple Pencil 1st Gen (that still is lightining) or paying extra
       | for the iPad Air and Apple Pencil 2nd Gen/Pro. The fact that
       | Apple Pencil USB-C doesn't support presure levels at ALL is
       | infuriating too.
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | If she's looking to sketch or just doesn't mind not having
         | color, I can't recommend the Kindle Scribe enough. I bought it
         | for reading but it's become my combination work
         | notes/presentation board/drawing tablet, and I absolutely love
         | it. The premium pencil honestly smokes the Apple pencil and it
         | feels so nice to use. I just wish it did color too.
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | The Air is a significantly better drawing display.
        
           | kokada wrote:
           | She basically wants to draw notes and do some doodling, so it
           | is not like it would make much difference and the price delta
           | is huge between the base iPad and the iPad Air.
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | The older generations are still available and cheaper, they
             | just don't support the newest Pencil Pro.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | The Wikipedia article for the Apple Pencil has a
               | compatiblity matrix that is very helpful in this regard,
               | since it's so damn confusing.
               | 
               | I think if I was in the market for a drawing device on a
               | budget I'd go with an iPad Air that supports the Apple
               | Pencil 2nd generation. Something like the iPad Air 5th or
               | 4th would do well.
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | It depends on her storage needs. If she's making files
             | she'll probably not want the 64GB version. So you'd be
             | looking at the 256GB base for $500 or the 128GB 11" Air for
             | $600. That's not that big a jump for the added utility.
             | 
             | I agree with the other poster; maybe look at refurb and a
             | 2nd gen pencil.
             | 
             | Or just don't get one. But it sounds like this is on the
             | short list to buy for you two.
        
               | kokada wrote:
               | She lived with an iPhone 64GB up until last week and I
               | expect that her tablet storage needs to be even smaller
               | (e.g.: no photos). So yes, 64GB is fine.
               | 
               | > Or just don't get one.
               | 
               | This is actually what I am going to do: wait until there
               | is a better base iPad version. Unless I can get an older
               | iPad Pro for a cheap price, but it is unlikely here in
               | EU.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | I would suggest the iPad Air 5th or 4th generation. They
               | should be pretty close in price to a base iPad, probably
               | less for the 4th generation.
        
       | rvnx wrote:
       | Is there somewhere where this Apple Intelligence can be used ?
        
         | zie wrote:
         | Some of it is available in the beta's, but no, it's not
         | released to stable yet.
        
           | dumbo-octopus wrote:
           | Which boggles the mind... did nobody tell the software team
           | that a release was coming?
        
             | fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
             | Apple doesn't have a reputation for letting engineers
             | slack. I have to guess they are working like dogs to meet
             | some standard before they are willing to release.
        
               | dumbo-octopus wrote:
               | They don't have a reputation for releasing hardware
               | without software to back it either. One way or another,
               | an unprecedented process failure has occurred.
        
               | fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
               | Well, the phone's software works great. They just haven't
               | released those new AI features - which are supposed to
               | come out on some older devices as well. And it's hardly
               | the first time Apple delayed a release.
               | 
               | IMO, the only thing weird here is the way the iPhone 16
               | demo day kept talking about these unreleased features
               | front and center instead of the actual capabilities of
               | the new phone. Probably that's because the phone is so
               | incremental and there was not much to talk about.
        
               | dumbo-octopus wrote:
               | Can you name another time the software team has lagged so
               | far behind the hardware release and marketing? Nearly
               | every ad I've seen the world over has touted "Apple
               | Intelligence" as if it's a thing that exits, not some
               | Coming Soon^{TM} pipe dream.
               | 
               | My money is on it being a massive failure if it ever does
               | come out, the only thing stopping me from buying options
               | is I don't have a clue as to the timeline for when
               | they'll give up and ship whatever they have.
        
               | fhd2 wrote:
               | Seems like a page from the Tesla playbook. Musk kept
               | promising customers that if they buy a Tesla _now_, they
               | will have full self driving and can make money having it
               | go to work as a robotaxi Next Year (TM). Without these
               | promises, a Tesla would just be another car.
               | 
               | Not quite the same Ponzi scheme, but they promise a
               | device "built for AI", so that when those features are
               | ready, you'll get them. Without these promises, the thing
               | would just be another tablet.
               | 
               | Do they have to necessarily keep that promise? Musk seems
               | to be doing fine without. What's the alternative, holding
               | firm against the hype? Not sure that'd do wonders for
               | their stock price. Maybe Jobs' Apple would have done
               | that. But I suppose the current Apple doesn't see much
               | choice around riding hype cycles.
        
             | zie wrote:
             | It clearly wasn't ready. My guess: the powers that be
             | decided they had to make a public showing of being an AI
             | company, hence the giant marketing push ahead of release.
             | 
             | It's unknown how useful any of this will be in day to day
             | use-cases.
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | I don't think Apple can simply delay an iPhone. There's
             | entire industries relying on there being a new iPhone out
             | every September.
        
               | dumbo-octopus wrote:
               | Apple of yesteryear would issue a patch update model and
               | let this feature cook until it was ready for release.
               | Current approach is sloppy in a decidedly un-Apple way.
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | And it's not coming to the European Union.
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | You can get it in the public betas, but it's very underwhelming
         | and not useful. I'm surprised they're talking this up so much
         | to be honest.
        
       | marmaduke wrote:
       | lol as if teachers have money to buy this to make their lessons
       | plans.
        
         | All4All wrote:
         | You might be surprised as to how many are willing to make the
         | splurge. Anecdotal, but I'm married to a high school teacher.
         | She and several of her coworkers have been willing to eat the
         | cost personally just to avoid using dated district-provided
         | assets, which are often clucky and make the job worse.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | This is the salary schedule for teacher in the district my kids
         | were in:
         | 
         | https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BN_Q51d_wUFMs7ajdwI07ESmnmS...
         | 
         | Teachers get $55k-$72k depending on their qualifications. Not
         | great, but not poverty levels either. If they want an iPad,
         | they can probably get one.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I love iPad minis, but a keyboard folio for this size would be
       | great. I've used this form factor with the iPad Air for writing,
       | and it's perfect for carrying in a small bag. I know this is an
       | expensive toy, though.
       | 
       | [*] For reference, the iPad Air with the Magic Keyboard is about
       | as heavy as a 13" MacBook Air.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I bought and returned a 13" iPad Pro M4 because I couldn't get
         | a Smart Keyboard Folio for it. Only the Magic Keyboard is
         | available. I'm still using my 2018 iPad Pro.
        
           | teejmya wrote:
           | Same, I actually bought a few of the Smart Keyboard Folios to
           | use as they die. Upgraded to the M2 iPad Air, as I think it's
           | the last of this form factor...
           | 
           | It is just such a shame they discontinued the keyboard. It
           | makes for the perfect iPad with a full keyboard.
        
       | zer0zzz wrote:
       | All I want to know is can it do windowed multi tasking with stage
       | manager?
        
       | protoman3000 wrote:
       | The size of the mini is really the best, but the external monitor
       | support is very disappointing. Do jailbreaks etc. allow for
       | native monitor resolutions or are we limited to the iPads screen
       | resolution by hardware?
        
         | gmokki wrote:
         | I think the official specs say it can display 4k screen over DP
         | connector. Not sure if jailbreaks allow more resolutions
        
       | preaching5271 wrote:
       | So it's useless in Europe
        
         | tomovo wrote:
         | Or: more free space and lower CPU usage in the EU.
        
       | poszlem wrote:
       | I still remember the Steve Jobs era when people would praise
       | Apple for having a simple lineup of devices, in contrast to
       | Android, which had some crazy amount of variants of every device.
       | How times have changed.
        
         | wslh wrote:
         | Regarding variants, it continue to be more complex to buy a
         | Microsoft Windows notebook.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | What other large brand has a simpler lineup? Samsung released
         | 22 phones just in 2024 with memorable names like C55 and M05.
         | 
         | Although I wouldn't mind if they got rid of one or two iPhone
         | variants, or at least gave them more meaningful names. I have
         | no idea what the difference between Plus, Pro and Max is. I
         | only know that Pro doesn't mean pro, and that doesn't make it
         | any easier.
         | 
         | Edit: also Steve Jobs was still alive when you could choose
         | between four different iPod variants.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | Google Pixel has one Tablet.
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | Within the first year of release there was also just one
             | iPhone and one iPad.
             | 
             | Meanwhile there are 4 variants of the Pixel 9. So clearly
             | Google shows the same trend over time.
        
               | walterbell wrote:
               | 9 years, 3 tablets, 1 active:                 Pixel C
               | (2015)       Pixel Slate (2018)       Pixel Tablet (2023)
               | 
               | https://www.androidcentral.com/google-pixel-c-was-best-
               | andro...
               | 
               |  _> I 'll forever remember a different tablet, the Google
               | Pixel C, as the best Android tablet ever made.. The Pixel
               | C's design was just overflowing with potential.. like so
               | many Google hardware products, few people ever had an
               | opportunity to use a Pixel C. It never received a model
               | refresh, and its spiritual successor, the Pixel Slate,
               | was a total disaster. I felt at the time, as I still do
               | today, that the Pixel C deserved a simple update with new
               | components to give this hardware design more time to
               | shine._
               | 
               | So far, no news on Pixel Tablet 2, other than Pixel
               | Tablet being sold standalone without the dock.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | It's mainly just the iPad lineup that's a mess, but it's
         | optimized for there always being an iPad available for
         | increasing budgets in $100 jumps, give or take. It's confusing
         | to try and keep track of them all, but that's not really the
         | point. What they have is anyone can walk into a store and say
         | "give me an iPad, I'll pay $600" and they'll get a good device.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | When Jobs did that Apple was close to bankruptcy. When the
         | first iPhone was introduced in 2007, was less than $25 billion.
         | It's now $385 billion.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | Nice choice, always been my favorite size.
       | 
       | Surprised though that they don't have an option with cellular so
       | you can have always-on data access (i.e., with a data-only plan).
       | 
       | Updated: my bad, it does come with cellular -- it's just not
       | advertised on the main product page
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | I'm seeing it on the Ireland store, for 170 eur.
        
           | dce wrote:
           | Same in US, $150.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Most carriers offer iPads as far back as I remember? You have
         | to get it through their stores though.
        
         | throwaway48476 wrote:
         | Do you still need to buy the cellular version to get a GPS
         | chip?
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | Ugh, that bezel.
       | 
       | Will full coverage screens with a software driven, virtual bezel
       | every be a thing?
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Ugh, my batteries need recharging.
         | 
         | Will nuclear powered phones with built-in fusion reactors that
         | never need recharging ever be a thing?
        
           | ClassyJacket wrote:
           | An edge to edge screen is entirely technically feasible tho.
           | The iPhone has it.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | I don't get why some people get so worked up about bezels. I
         | like being able to hold my devices without accidental inputs,
         | and to me they look better anyway.
         | 
         | I wouldn't mind 3cm wide bezels and accordingly larger
         | batteries.
        
           | hnburnsy wrote:
           | Virtual bezels and let the user choosing.
        
             | cut3 wrote:
             | Dynamically get larger as battery life decreases
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | And pay for a screen size I won't use? No, thanks.
        
               | hnburnsy wrote:
               | Could be dynamic, example, watching a movie, no bezels.
               | Remove the bezels from the top and/or bottom, that
               | changes on the device orientation. Placed in a stand
               | remove the bezels, add them back when picked up.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | That sounds awesome actually. Makes me wonder how hard it
               | would be on a rooted phone to just have it tell the
               | software the screen is a few pixels smaller so you can
               | touch chose sides safely, and remove the restriction
               | again when you're in movie mode
               | 
               | Never heard of anyone making that but this would honestly
               | sound like the first innovation in several years, not
               | incremental like "GPS now finds a solution 2 seconds
               | faster" and "the mobile data now uses 7% less energy" but
               | something that is now possible that wasn't a feature
               | before
        
               | alpaca128 wrote:
               | So what mechanism would you suggest to reliably detect
               | when I want to pick it up so it adds the bezels before
               | I'm able to cause any accidental input?
        
               | jojobas wrote:
               | Imagining that with Apple you're paying for the screen
               | size is a bit rich.
        
         | fckgw wrote:
         | iPads need to have some sort of bezel, else how are you going
         | to hold the thing? iPhones you can grip the sides, iPads not so
         | much.
        
           | michpoch wrote:
           | iPhone 16 pro max is almost there with the screen size, also
           | a two-hands device
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | This. Phones are already a real trade-off between usability
           | and screen size. I've reached (or perhaps slightly gone over)
           | the minimum amount of grabbing space I want on a phone and
           | mine isn't quite the sleekest model
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | I was just thinking the same thing. Why couldn't they give it a
         | tiny bezel, with a software option to put a virtual bezel if
         | you want to hold it in a way it matters.
         | 
         | They could even give it only the virtual bezel on the left and
         | right sides, in whichever orientation you're holding it, since
         | you don't really hold it on the top or bottom.
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | 120hz would've been nice... since they likely won't make pro
       | modal in this size.
        
         | volemo wrote:
         | I luckily don't care for higher refresh rate, but I'm
         | disappointed this model doesn't come with OLED.
        
       | All4All wrote:
       | Does anyone here have insight as to the differences between the
       | various versions of Apple's "Smart HDR" feature? Interesting to
       | see it took the leap from Smart HDR3 (previous model) to Smart
       | HDR 4 (new model), and yet the latest iPhones released last month
       | apparently use Smart HDR 5.
        
         | turnsout wrote:
         | The version is tied to the Image Signal Processor (ISP) of the
         | A-series chip. So the A17 has Smart HDR 4, while the A18 has
         | Smart HDR 5.
         | 
         | Smart HDR uses neural image segmentation for tone mapping and
         | other processing. In my opinion it goes way too far; trying to
         | grab a faintly blue sky and make it as blue as possible,
         | identifying a face and lightening any hint of a shadow, etc.
         | 
         | When people complain about iPhone photos looking over
         | processed, this is why.
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | Smart HDR 5 but Auto WB is still stuck in kindergarten.
           | Priorities I guess.
        
             | turnsout wrote:
             | Great point--the basics like WB and exposure still get
             | confused by something as simple as a field of green grass
             | or a white wall.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe]
       | 
       | More discussion on official post:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41848298
        
         | dang wrote:
         | We'll merge those comments hither.
        
       | zer0zzz wrote:
       | Pretty sure theres no stage manager, hard pass. Sticking to my 6.
        
         | rgreekguy wrote:
         | Well, they call it stage manager, but in iOS 18 (too) it only
         | offers split screen and one window overlaid to the side. There
         | is an example in the page somewhere.
        
           | zer0zzz wrote:
           | That's not stage manger it's Split View and Slide Over
           | 
           | https://support.apple.com/en-us/102576
        
       | dang wrote:
       | We changed the URL from https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/ but
       | readers may want to check out both.
        
         | urda wrote:
         | thanks dang
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | In many ways (no pun intended :-)) I would relate to having an
       | iPad mini and a much much dumber phone which was just text/chat
       | and voice. I have gotten there because I'm constantly in this
       | weird tension between wanting a bigger screen on my phone because
       | the app I'm using and wanting a smaller phone so that it is
       | easier to pocket and carry around. A friend of mine did the
       | folding screen phone thing and that has its advantages but I
       | really like a small phone (and ideally with a long battery life
       | so no 1000 nit screens on it). Definitely first world/21st
       | century problems :-). I do find engineering tradeoffs in product
       | design an interesting thing though.
        
         | osrec wrote:
         | What was the pun? Many/mini?
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Yes.
        
           | imjonse wrote:
           | You can safely put 'no pun intended' after actually having no
           | puns in the text. It can be disorienting but such is truth
           | sometimes.
        
             | johnmaguire wrote:
             | Pun intended?
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | typeof(x) y = (typeof(x))x; // no pun intended
        
               | DennisP wrote:
               | Back when I was coding for a living, I tried things like
               | that almost a dozen times to see if they would make
               | anyone laugh, but no pun in ten did.
        
               | vl wrote:
               | But why cast to it's own type?
        
         | zoeysmithe wrote:
         | For me its a very nice bedside ebook reader, reddit machine,
         | and video device. Its a perfect size for all those things,
         | perhaps a bit too small for video but good enough. It can fit
         | into a large coat pocket or a medium sized purse too.
         | 
         | I keep trying to get into my kindle but just can't for some
         | reason. E-ink is nice but being able to get a nice glowing
         | black background with white text is really nice and the page
         | changes are so much more fluid than e-ink.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Way more distractions on an iPad, though.
        
             | dankwizard wrote:
             | Do not Disturb mode on to disable notifications
             | 
             | Self control to not get distracted
             | 
             | I don't get this whole "Too many distractions" shtick. If
             | you don't have the self control to swipe away from your
             | book to sneak in a round of Angry Birds, you'll probably
             | end up pulling your phone out every 2 minutes to check your
             | Reddit feed
        
             | walterbell wrote:
             | Assistive Access can limit user interactions to a few apps.
             | 
             | https://support.apple.com/guide/assistive-access-
             | iphone/set-...
        
         | Syonyk wrote:
         | Most of the modern "dumbphones" (or "feature phones") would do
         | this just fine for you.
         | 
         | If you want one that can survive anything life will throw at
         | it, look at the Sonim devices - the XP3+ (flip) or XP5+
         | (candybar). They're Android Go, have exceptionally good (week
         | and a half, easily) battery life, hotspot just fine, and handle
         | actual use a lot better than the KaiOS toys out there. Maybe
         | 3.x is better, but KaiOS 2.x couldn't handle actual use for
         | more than a few weeks without starting to lag, requiring you to
         | remove texts from it so the interface wasn't glacial, and mine
         | eventually just stopped bothering to notify me about incoming
         | calls and texts, which is your one job... The Android Go stuff
         | seems to actually hold up to sustained moderate use.
        
           | bradfa wrote:
           | Do any of these Android Go phones have semi decent cameras?
           | That's a big holdup for many people.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | In the context of this thread, that's what the iPad mini is
             | for.
        
             | Syonyk wrote:
             | https://www.sevarg.net/2023/12/30/more-flip-phone-sonim-
             | xp3-... has some sample images from mine - it's an 8MP
             | camera. Not amazing, but also not a 2MP potato.
        
               | bradfa wrote:
               | Thanks! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking
               | for! :)
        
           | 0x38B wrote:
           | I used a KaiOS device for about 6 months. My expectations
           | weren't high, but texting and T9 input were a mess:
           | 
           | A) I had to manually enter captital I, apostrophe, and 'm'
           | every time I wanted to write "I'm".
           | 
           | B) New words (like brand and place names) displace common
           | words in the built-in wordlist - that is, T9 gets worse the
           | more you use it.
           | 
           | It was still an OK digital minimalist/detox device - the
           | GMaps web app with voice search was good enough.
           | 
           | The Android Go devices you mentioned sound far better - I'm
           | never touching KaiOS again.
        
             | guestbest wrote:
             | Funny, but for number one in your list, PalmOS 3 could do
             | that in 1998 on a 16mhz 32 bit Motorola processor. It was
             | just one of those attention to details that made the
             | platform so nice to use.
        
           | WhyNotHugo wrote:
           | > Most of the modern "dumbphones" (or "feature phones") would
           | do this just fine for you.
           | 
           | Assuming you use something like WhatsApp, Facebook or
           | something alike. Modern "feature phones" include built-in
           | applications for messaging and calling, and you generally
           | can't install anything custom on them.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | I was just pitching this yesterday to my friend. My Pixel 8 Pro
         | is a great phone, but in many situations I only want a phone
         | that can show me my messages and answer my phone calls, and
         | it's OK if its interface is my smartwatch and/or earbuds. I
         | want it to be able to take over my mobile number on-demand, and
         | relinquish it to my Pixel afterward.
        
         | mulderc wrote:
         | I am moving away from my phone to just using my Apple
         | Watch/AirPods then pulling out the mini when I need something
         | it can't cover.
        
           | herpdyderp wrote:
           | I wish I could do this but I have yet to find a good Apple
           | Watch replacement for owning and syncing music (rather than
           | streaming it)
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _I wish I could do this but I have yet to find a good Apple
             | Watch replacement for owning and syncing music (rather than
             | streaming it)_
             | 
             | Is it not possible to sync MP3s to Apple Watches anymore? I
             | have a really really old model, and I selected a few
             | playlists on my iPhone, and when they change, the songs
             | automatically sync to my Apple Watch.
        
               | mulderc wrote:
               | That was myexperience also but haven't done that in some
               | time.
        
             | pmcjones wrote:
             | You can sync your own MP3s using iTunes Match -- it's about
             | $25/year. https://support.apple.com/en-us/108935
        
               | infecto wrote:
               | Incredible. I never heard of this paid feature before.
        
             | mulderc wrote:
             | I use streaming now but historically I had no issues
             | syncing music and playlists to my watch.
        
             | hi_hi wrote:
             | There's this really old product that Apple use to sell for
             | all your music. I think it was the youPod or something...
        
           | rogerkirkness wrote:
           | Apparently Steve's posthumous roadmap focused on the idea
           | that personal computers get 'smaller and closer to you' as
           | time goes on. So the idea that an Apple Watch and AirPods
           | could be all you need when travelling, etc. follows that
           | premise.
        
           | a9a wrote:
           | I would love to do this.. if only there were Uber/Lyft
           | options on the watch
        
             | mulderc wrote:
             | There were back in the day. Apple really screwed up the
             | development story for the watch as the initial watches just
             | couldn't really do apps. They should have waiting for
             | Series 3 before introducing apps and they still could do a
             | lot to make things easier for devs.
        
           | grahamj wrote:
           | Lame the Watch still can't be managed with an iPad or else
           | you could go all in on this idea.
        
             | mulderc wrote:
             | more that is is lame the watch isn't just an fully
             | independent device yet.
        
         | jay_kyburz wrote:
         | I find it incredible that I can't make calls on my iPad. I
         | would just carry an iPad in my back pack if people could call
         | me on it.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | VOIP clients work on iPad.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | If I was approaching the dumb phone thing I'd try something
         | similar to this video - "dumbify" Home Screen app for iOS,
         | setting as gray scale, screen time limits, etc.
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVb1lLniEw
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Apple keeps a lot of owners addicted to their phones by making
         | Watch support exclusive to iPhone.
         | 
         | I'd love to go dumbphone and a Watch synced to an iPad at home,
         | but this is not an option.
        
           | thorncorona wrote:
           | What keeps them addicted to their watch?
           | 
           | I've never found a compelling use case where I'd willingly
           | buy another Apple watch.
        
             | eightysixfour wrote:
             | Keeps them addicted to their phone by not allowing them to
             | just go watch only.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | My best use case for the apple watch is I can keep it on
             | _everywhere_. If I constantly have to think of the thing
             | it'll get annoying enough I want to get rid of it.
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | Exercise tracking is a biggie for me.
             | 
             | Integration with Fitness on Apple TV is extremely slick for
             | HIIT and yoga.
             | 
             | Also, the third-party Intervals Pro app has been my go-to
             | running app. I started with Apple+Nike since 2010 and a
             | Fitbit Charge in 2015, but nothing let me customize my
             | workouts as much as the Intervals app.
        
               | dartharva wrote:
               | Do you really _need_ it though, or is it some sort of
               | placebo effect in place? I can bet most professional
               | athletes don 't use such devices.
        
               | tomr75 wrote:
               | you'd bet wrong. A lot of them use chest strap/HR
               | variability monitors to guide training/track illness +
               | fitness
        
             | gcanyon wrote:
             | I own a Concept 2 rowing machine; I have detailed stats on
             | every workout going back 19 years, and for the last 7 years
             | or so I have heart rate info as well.
        
             | theshackleford wrote:
             | I have cognitive issues from treatments following an
             | incomplete spinal cord injury and autoimmune problems.
             | Managing my care is complex, with multiple drugs,
             | appointments, symptom tracking, and scans required by a
             | large team of specialists. My short-term memory is poor,
             | though my long-term memory remains sharp. The drugs and
             | chronic pain make it even harder to stay focused and manage
             | these responsibilities.
             | 
             | My watch is essential in helping me keep up. It's on my
             | wrist from the moment I wake till the moment I sleep,
             | ensuring I miss nothing important. I've restricted
             | notifications to medical needs and use it to log symptoms
             | or adverse effects immediately, preventing forgetfulness
             | which was a problem previously.
             | 
             | Outside of my unique use case, many people I know with a
             | watch have stopped carrying a phone altogether. They find
             | it freeing, as the watch gives them essential tools without
             | the distraction of a larger device. Its limitations are a
             | benefit, allowing them to focus on the moment and carry
             | less.
        
               | grahamj wrote:
               | Super cool the Watch can be so beneficial to someone like
               | yourself with actual important use cases, unlike most of
               | us (read: me) where it's mostly gravy.
               | 
               | RE not carrying a phone, I think what mostly makes them
               | something people need to detox from is notifications and
               | social media fomo. Take those away and it's just a pocket
               | computer.
               | 
               | For that reason I've leaned heavily into Focus modes and
               | limiting notifications and have left most social media.
               | Those have really helped a lot with being present.
        
           | gxs wrote:
           | You can probably get fairly close to do this by using an
           | apple watch with a sim card
           | 
           | I used to leave the house with just my watch and it was great
           | - I could read and send text messages, email, even take calls
           | on my watch and have everything synced up to my phone at
           | home. You can even download music to it and pair it to your
           | airpods.
           | 
           | The missing piece here is just having a dumb phone - somehow
           | I think that with some ingenuity you might be able to
           | something that serves 80% of your needs here or something
           | like that.
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | My closest solution would be to piggyback off my partner's
             | iPhone using family watch pairing, and use my own
             | dumbphone.
        
             | eightysixfour wrote:
             | It is the smallest, most annoying things that keep Apple
             | Watch from being an actual phone killer for me - like
             | getting an Uber.
        
           | gcanyon wrote:
           | I wonder -- does the iPhone have to be on a service plan? Or
           | is wifi good enough?
        
             | lotsofpulp wrote:
             | Wifi is good enough. Actually, might not even need WiFi.
        
           | randmeerkat wrote:
           | >...addicted to their phones by making Watch support
           | exclusive to iPhone.
           | 
           | Buy a Garmin watch, battery life measured in weeks, and
           | you'll never have to re-enter your pin again because it moved
           | on your wrist. You'll still get great fitness tracking though
           | and also notifications if you choose to sync them.
        
             | wisenull wrote:
             | I would love to buy a Garmin watch but Garmin Pay doesn't
             | support a lot of banks yet. It's a shame because their
             | battery life is on a league of its own.
        
             | eightysixfour wrote:
             | > and you'll never have to re-enter your pin again because
             | it moved on your wrist.
             | 
             | Is this a problem for others? I've never had it happen to
             | me.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | You want an Apple Watch imo, I often leave my phone behind now,
         | I'm contactable without distractions.
        
         | mouse_ wrote:
         | Back in the day when Android was KitKat and full of
         | possibilities, I ran a Nexus 7 2nd gen and a cheap phone from
         | my carrier. I'm not sure if it was enlightenment but it was
         | closer to it than today, where I carry around a smartphone
         | that's too big to use comfortably but still too small to use
         | frequently for media.
        
         | pyromaker wrote:
         | I didn't get the pun......
        
           | j_bum wrote:
           | Maybe they pronounce "many" as "mini"?
        
           | devilbunny wrote:
           | many/mini are very similar if not identical in casual US
           | English pronunciation.
        
         | ein0p wrote:
         | A lot of people (myself included) want that, which is exactly
         | why it's not going to happen - Apple would much rather see you
         | pay twice as much for an iPhone Pro Max
        
         | qnleigh wrote:
         | A pro of foldables is that you mostly use the outer screen, but
         | the battery is big enough to handle the inner screen. So you
         | get excellent battery life for daily use. If you only use the
         | inner screen for reading in dark mode the battery life is also
         | excellent.
         | 
         | Also at least for the Galaxy Fold, when folded the phone is
         | narrow enough to use one-handed and hold securely.
        
           | lnenad wrote:
           | I've gotten myself a Honor Magic V3 and I am blown away by
           | how good this phone is. Screen quality, battery life, camera.
           | For me this is the holy trinity. Unfortunately now I can
           | never go back to normal phones. I am waiting for the Huawei
           | Mate XT second gen and making the switch.
        
         | blackoil wrote:
         | An alternate setup is LTE smartwatch, tws and foldable phones.
         | You can do almost all dumbphone tasks and some more from the
         | watch. It can be relatively distraction free, and you can leave
         | phone at home for swimming/jogging/workouts. Foldable will give
         | you decent camera and tablet when you need it and can be kept
         | in bag or far enough.
        
         | evrenesat wrote:
         | I use the Unihertz Jelly Star alongside my iPhone 14 pro. It's
         | a 3" android 14 phone running on a powerful soc with 8gb ram
         | and 256gb storage. I have the same sim on both phones but I no
         | longer carry the iPhone with me, I use it at home as an iPad
         | micro.
         | 
         | The fingerprint reader isn't accurate enough so I use pattern
         | lock for NFC payments. Texting on a 3" screen isn't much fun
         | either, but I don't like texting anyway. At least it manages to
         | run FUTO voice keyboard (whisper based) fast enough.
        
         | c120 wrote:
         | The combination of an Iphone Mini and an Ipad Mini really works
         | well - alas apple decided that they no longer will make
         | reasonably sized phones...
        
         | threetonesun wrote:
         | I often feel this way as well, but given the phone has replaced
         | GPS in my car and my camera, I end up wanting newer stuff to
         | keep those up to date. I've given up on Apple producing a magic
         | device just for me, and accept that what we've got is pretty
         | amazing considering the alternative is a backpack of devices to
         | carry around.
        
       | vjulian wrote:
       | I have an older (but not old) Mini, and I find it almost
       | unusable, as screen elements don't scale up. For example, Safari
       | browser buttons are stupidly small. Is that still an issue with
       | the Mini?
        
         | rgreekguy wrote:
         | I am not sure I understand what you mean by the scaling issues,
         | so, I guess, no? I have the 6th generation. The problem I have
         | (and I do not see getting improved, somehow) is that
         | applications do not care for it. Many times I have to turn it
         | to landscape for some more room to fit everything. Most
         | applications feel better on landscape, but then you lose
         | vertical space. Affinity Photo 1 is very guilty of that, having
         | buttons overlay each other on the left.
        
           | vjulian wrote:
           | Elements such as buttons and scroll bars are too small for my
           | big fingers and relative to the size of the device.
        
         | dialup_sounds wrote:
         | The mini display is 326 PPI vs 264 PPI for larger iPads, but
         | the same scale factor so things will always be smaller.
         | (iPhones with even higher PPI use a 3x scale.)
         | 
         | That said, you can embiggen things like Safari browser buttons
         | under Settings > Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Larger
         | Text.
        
           | glhaynes wrote:
           | I'd also suggest playing with the setting here if you just
           | want everything to be scaled up a bit: Settings > Display &
           | Brightness > Display Zoom > Larger Text.
        
           | vjulian wrote:
           | Thank you. Larger text does just that and in some cases makes
           | buttons even more difficult to use. My eyes are fine, and my
           | fingers are big...unfortunately rendering the Mini mainly
           | useless for me.
        
         | rconti wrote:
         | Yes. The mini feels like an abandoned product. In landscape
         | mode, the keyboard takes more than half of the screen. UI
         | elements are routinely covered up in various apps. For example,
         | in Flighty, the flights "drawer" cannot be hidden in the way it
         | can on the iPhone. This is probably fine in a larger iPad, but
         | on the Mini, it covers more than half the screen, meaning it
         | HIDES THE AIRPLANE ICON of the flight you're tracking. Apple
         | Maps has a similar behavior with its drawer in portrait mode,
         | but, IIRC, at least that one can be hidden.
         | 
         | I've owned 8 or 10 tablets in my life and never gotten along
         | with any of them. The Mini6 is my latest experiment, and it's
         | my favorite, but I still find myself rarely using it.
        
           | kyleee wrote:
           | I wish Steve was still alive to have a rampage through the
           | org and humiliate and fire all those responsible for this
           | type of BS
        
           | mckn1ght wrote:
           | Have you tried using the floating keyboard? I exclusively use
           | it on my iPad not only for saving the screen real estate but
           | also because I can swype on it (even though I can touch type
           | on the big on-screen keyboard just fine; I still find it more
           | convenient to swype with one of my thumbs, or the pencil
           | https://support.apple.com/en-us/111789
        
             | rconti wrote:
             | Thanks! I haven't -- or, at least, not in a long time. Wow,
             | the UX is terrible! I accidentally first dragged my
             | kyeboard into split mode before reading the instructions.
             | Then I've managed to get it into floating but it was hard
             | to re-dock, and the first few times i tried to move it
             | anywhere, i got some unintended feature enabled. Yikes.
             | 
             | I'll have to remember to use it next time i'm bothered by
             | it covering some control. I still haven't made friends with
             | swype, but I do use it occasionally.
        
       | mlajtos wrote:
       | iPad mini 2024 with Pencil Pro and Math Notes is going to
       | revolutionize math education.
        
         | p00dles wrote:
         | What is math notes?
        
           | stephanerangaya wrote:
           | Math Notes calculator allows users to type or write out
           | mathematical expressions and see them solved in their own
           | handwriting
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/16/24194423/math-notes-
           | ipad-...
        
         | hggigg wrote:
         | Mathematician here. No it's really not. Having used it
         | extensively it craps out all the time, fails to parse things
         | properly, doesn't understand anything other than a very narrow
         | undefined subset of anything that needs to be done and
         | generally makes things harder.
         | 
         | It sure _looks_ like it would though.
         | 
         | Noteful and a competent calculator with CAS functionality on
         | the other hand might be a different outcome.
        
           | bbor wrote:
           | To be fair, "math education" usually refers to the millions
           | that learn arithmetic, algebra, and geometry every year, not
           | the (tens of?) thousands that take part graduate level
           | courses in "real" mathematics. Although I'm curious; do you
           | think it would handle basic calculus (aka as taught in Calc
           | survey courses up through multivariate)? In other words: does
           | it know how to evaluate integrals and derivatives? Because
           | I'd guess more people take those classes than all their
           | descendants combined.
           | 
           | Either way, and on a more fundamental note: I'm a little
           | dubious that "completing equations" is a net benefit for math
           | education. It really seems like a small nice-to-have-
           | available affordance tacked on to the real game changer: a
           | computer that can adaptively challenge a student and
           | competently answer clarifying questions without making it too
           | easy. Y'know, just AGI stuff lol
           | 
           | As we've all seen from ChatGPT's impact on English courses
           | already, this all will require a fundamental rethink of how
           | we teach children and adolescents. Homework is a bandaid over
           | capitalist failings, and it's beginning to peel...
        
             | hggigg wrote:
             | It has no idea about calculus at all. Not only that it's a
             | numeric not a symbolic calculator. So taking it even
             | further back to basics, if you do sqrt(12) it should really
             | crap out 2+sqrt(3) [as a surd] but it just dumps the
             | evaluation out. My PS10 Casio can handle that better.
             | 
             | As for education, you don't really need a calculator. We
             | don't really use them that much. Pen, paper, ears.
             | 
             | As for computers, programmed randomised questions with
             | deterministic answers and documented steps to solve the
             | problems are the right way. LLMs can't do that even if they
             | look like they can. _some_ universities actually have tools
             | which generate those. Those are truly enlightening as you
             | can see the reasoning properly.
        
         | rty32 wrote:
         | I don't know which bubble you are in, but $499 + $129 for
         | devices at MSRP is not going to revolutionize anything,
         | especially just for maths.
         | 
         | A $200 Chromebook can do 10x. Guess what, that's exactly why
         | schools buy Chromebooks.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | > revolutionize math education
         | 
         | math education is not likely going to be "revolutionized" with
         | technology or that would have already happened
        
         | wasabinator wrote:
         | Ironic how one demonstrates a questionable grasp on maths if
         | they think an expensive iDevice will revolutionise maths
         | education for the masses.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | That's like saying giving students a better calculator
         | revolutionizes math education.
         | 
         | Even giving students full access to Mathematica (which I think
         | is worthwhile BTW) won't revolutionize it.
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | Bump up from 64 GB default to 128 GB is nice.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | It certainly was, like eight years ago when I got the bigger SD
         | card for my phone
         | 
         | At this point, the only word that can be applied to it is
         | "overdue" for anything who uses it beyond a thin client for
         | server-side storage or a streaming service
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Uh, I'd be willing to bet that almost all ipad mini users use
           | cloud storage and streaming services. That's an extremely
           | common use case.
        
       | RIMR wrote:
       | All of this looks good, but if they want to retain trust with
       | artists, the last thing they should be doing is integrating
       | generative AI tools into their art programs.
       | 
       | Creatives are getting more and more frustrated with the AI tools
       | showing up in places like Windows or in Photoshop. For the first
       | time ever I am meeting career artists and designers who are
       | actively looking to add non-AI alternatives to their usual
       | toolchains because they feel betrayed by the addition of
       | generative AI.
       | 
       | Apple is asking to lose the trust of a major market segment by
       | charging forward with this stuff. You would think that the
       | backlash to their "Crush!" commercial would have been an eye-
       | opening moment for them about what Artists actually expect from
       | them...
        
         | matrix2003 wrote:
         | > Creatives are getting more and more frustrated with the AI
         | tools showing up in places like Windows or in Photoshop.
         | 
         | I would be careful about bias here. The loudest people are
         | often the most unhappy. I have several graphic design friends
         | who have fully embraced integrating AI into their workflows.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | It's not like artists have a choice. They've been abused by
         | Adobe and similar organisations for decades now, and remain
         | locked in their siloes.
         | 
         | Sure, in theory they could switch to Linux with Krita and Gimp
         | or something, but every time I've heard artists chime in on
         | this, they claim that the software is to immature or lacks
         | features that they need. I _wish_ they could switch to open
         | source software, but they've been putting up with Adobe's abuse
         | for a long time now. This new development is unlikely to change
         | anything.
         | 
         | And just to be clear: I wish I was wrong here. I wish they
         | could and did move to open source tooling.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Why is the bezel so thick? A 1-2cm bezel around the entire "mini"
       | device seems a bit odd, given that the iPad Mini is a relatively
       | tiny device and phones these days come with a 1-2mm bezel (10x
       | less useless border).
       | 
       | Is it a cost saving measure / sneaky margin increaser, or what
       | might be the motivation?
       | 
       |  _Edit:_
       | 
       | Touch interference is a good idea. Still, from the picture, it
       | looks like the bezel could be half as thick and work well. Sorry
       | to be such a stickler, I am genuinely curious if Apple is chasing
       | better margins, the best feasible UX, or something else.
       | 
       | Could it be that since this device is _only $650 USD_ , it isn't
       | expensive enough to warrant a premium display? (Like the iPhone
       | SE https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/)
       | 
       | If so, I wish there was a fancier "Pro" model with premium
       | components. IIRC, I paid $1000 for my first iPad, it was the
       | first super high-resolution one back in 2012. Perhaps there
       | aren't enough customers who are sensitive to wasted screen real
       | estate on an 8-inch device.. and FWIW I have noticed a constant
       | stream of toddlers pacified by iPad Minis whenever I'm at Costco.
        
         | spython wrote:
         | I think it's so that the fingers holding the device don't
         | obstruct the view/ don't get counted as touch event.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | I'd be surprised if thumb rejection/palm rejection isn't
           | close to perfect by iPadOS 18.
        
             | Tempest1981 wrote:
             | Doesn't work well for me. Thumb gets too close to bottom,
             | and now scrolling becomes zooming. All the time.
        
             | browningstreet wrote:
             | I'm forever triggering the camera app, while locking the
             | device, on my iPhone 15 pro max. Every day, regularly.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | Same.
        
               | dankwizard wrote:
               | How small are your hands?
        
               | onion2k wrote:
               | Consider the possibility that the person here is not an
               | adult Western man.
        
               | happymellon wrote:
               | On top of that, just consider that there may be someone
               | with a different body shape.
               | 
               | There is a really weird vibe that some folks put out
               | trying to body shame over the internet.
        
               | sph wrote:
               | "The phone is fine, it's your genetics that are the
               | problem here"
        
               | dankwizard wrote:
               | I could have phrased it better but I was trying to be
               | succinct.
               | 
               | Smaller hands are likely to struggle to one hand control
               | the Pro Max.
        
               | happymellon wrote:
               | Honestly I'm not sure you could have phrased it worse!
               | 
               | > Smaller hands are likely to struggle to one hand
               | control the Pro Max.
               | 
               | Couldn't agree more.
        
               | browningstreet wrote:
               | Funny responses, but I'd say my hands are big.
        
               | eastbound wrote:
               | I click on ads by mistake on my iPhone 15 pro max. Even
               | the iPhone SE was better, with its bottom bezel. Thumb
               | detection on iOS is very bad.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | You're holding it wrong.
        
               | dyauspitr wrote:
               | How is that possible? The camera icon is in the bottom
               | left corner of the screen and you use the physical lock
               | button on the side to lock the iPhone.
        
               | ascagnel_ wrote:
               | You can also trigger the camera by swiping right-to-left
               | on the lock screen or from the notification pull-down.
        
               | xattt wrote:
               | Don't shame the man with the extra digit projecting from
               | his thenar eminence.
        
               | saagarjha wrote:
               | If you reach for the top left corner your thumb will
               | naturally come into contact with the bottom right corner
               | of the screen, assuming you are holding the device one-
               | handed (in your right hand).
        
               | oktoberpaard wrote:
               | I'm trying to picture this, but I can't. If I hold and
               | lock my iPhone with my right hand, I press the lock
               | button with my thumb. If I try to reach the top left
               | corner, I either do that with my left thumb (mostly) or
               | index finger (sometimes), or with my right thumb (very
               | awkward movement on a Pro Max). In none of these cases my
               | right thumb comes in contact with the screen or even
               | close to it. Maybe because I use the backside of my pinky
               | finger to lock the phone in place.
        
               | pests wrote:
               | I think he meant your palm hits the screen, which does
               | happen to me sometimes.
               | 
               | The right hand large stretch with the thumb into the top
               | left area - the pad below your thumb on your palm can
               | make contact with the screen.
        
               | corobo wrote:
               | I'm always managing to tap the top of the phone resulting
               | in either
               | 
               | - opening some app that recently used location services
               | 
               | Or worse
               | 
               | - making whatever app I'm in jump to the top of its page
               | with no way to get back to where I was short of doing a
               | load of scrolling
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | Well its not that they couldn't do it but the iPad has
             | always had bezels and the apps are expecting bezels not
             | thumb rejection. They could be but they're not built with
             | an on screen safe area.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | When I'm on boardgamearena in bed with my iPad pro on my
             | belly, I often trigger touch events at the bottom of the
             | screen from the folds of my shirt.
        
         | caconym_ wrote:
         | somewhere to grab it without putting your fingers on the
         | screen?
        
         | arcanemachiner wrote:
         | > Why is the bezel so thick?
         | 
         | How else were they supposed to make room for the extra 4GB of
         | RAM required to support Apple Intelligence?
        
         | hankman86 wrote:
         | So that they can release a successor model with thinner bezels.
         | 
         | In reality this may be to (1) to keep costs down and (2) to
         | distance the iPad mini from the more premium iPhone Pro Max.
         | 
         | All in all, this device leaves me wondering who this is for?
         | iPads are mostly used for media consumption, no matter how
         | Apple wants to position them. Not sure why this necessitates AI
         | hardware, but perhaps people really start using iPads for
         | productivity/creativity workloads that can make use of "Apple
         | Intelligence" (the silliest moniker since "Spatial Computing"
         | and "Retina Display").
         | 
         | The comparatively small difference in screen real estate
         | between an iPhone Pro Max and the iPad mini makes the latter
         | rather pointless. Perhaps they are targeting people with a
         | smaller iPhone who want another device to watch YouTube. What
         | could have made a difference is a folding display. I think the
         | iPad mini would have been the ideal candidate for that.
        
           | notatoad wrote:
           | >Not sure why this necessitates AI hardware
           | 
           | New Siri and iOS notification summaries seem like it should
           | be enough of a reason for apple to want to ship an iPad with
           | ai hardware.
        
             | troupo wrote:
             | > for apple to want to ship an iPad with ai hardware.
             | 
             | You mean the dedicated neural chip they've been gushing
             | over for half a decade saying how it's an amazing dedicated
             | chip for exactly this kind of work?
        
               | notatoad wrote:
               | I mean they've made a product decision that they're going
               | to limit new Siri to their new chips and 16GB of ram.
               | 
               | Regardless of how justified that decision is, or how
               | truthful the marketing about their old chip was, they
               | need an iPad mini that fits their stated requirements.
        
           | davidee wrote:
           | Lots of aircraft pilots love the iPad mini. Ideal sized tool
           | for having strapped to a yoke, or to one's knee.
        
             | rainsford wrote:
             | I plan on buying one for exactly that use-case. I have a
             | mini 5 that's showing its age and doesn't have enough
             | storage (downloading flying charts takes up a surprising
             | amount of space) and I didn't want to upgrade to the mini 6
             | considering how long in the tooth it was getting. The mini
             | 7 isn't some massive improvement, but it's improvement
             | enough in a very good niche for flying.
             | 
             | Edit: For the non-pilots reading this, it's also worth
             | noting that the most popular flying app by far for general
             | aviation at least, ForeFlight, is iOS only. So your choices
             | are generally small iPad or big iPad, and a lot of people
             | don't like big iPad in a small airplane cockpit.
        
               | wlesieutre wrote:
               | Three size options now, the mini at 8.3"; regular, Air,
               | and Pro at 11"; Air and Pro at 13"
        
             | SomeHacker44 wrote:
             | I hate that ForeFlight does not run on Android. It is is
             | keeping me from getting rid of my last overpriced, closed,
             | proprietary Apple device. Not that Jeppesen (Boeing) has a
             | good record on any of that either.
        
           | d3nj4l wrote:
           | > All in all, this device leaves me wondering who this is
           | for?
           | 
           | You know, you could just read all the other comments on this
           | post talking about why they like the mini.
        
             | dmix wrote:
             | People like to spend 1 minute looking at a product and
             | pretend they've done a market analysis by only looking at
             | their own consumption patterns or those of their very close
             | group of people around them combined with some stereotypes
             | like "people use tablets for media consumption" (and never
             | do anything else on them in between).
        
           | wslh wrote:
           | > All in all, this device leaves me wondering who this is
           | for?
           | 
           | I know children who study with their iPad minis and prefer
           | them over notebooks. This isn't necessarily a pro-Apple
           | statement, but rather a reflection on how different user
           | groups may engage with devices in ways that are cognitively
           | distinct from what we discuss here on HN.
           | 
           | There are also comments here about specific use cases, like
           | pilots using tools such as ForeFlight. While this kind of
           | usage may not drive overall demand, it highlights how certain
           | groups find unique value in the iPad mini for their
           | specialized needs.
        
           | theshackleford wrote:
           | > The comparatively small difference in screen real estate
           | between an iPhone Pro Max and the iPad mini
           | 
           | Due to the aspect ratios, there are significant differences
           | in viewable area. It is not a "small" difference at all. Once
           | you add in the ability to deal with specific aspect ratio
           | content, the difference becomes even larger.
           | 
           | https://displaywars.com/6,9-inch-d%7B19,5x9%7D-vs-8,3-inch-d.
           | ..
           | 
           | > All in all, this device leaves me wondering who this is
           | for?
           | 
           | Not for everyone I would suggest. But I have people in my
           | circle who will be very pleased. As they use a Mini as their
           | phone/portable machine out of the house. They have little
           | keyboard cases and use VOIP services for communication.
           | 
           | > but perhaps people really start using iPads for
           | productivity/creativity workloads
           | 
           | Part of the appeal for most people is the seamless usage of
           | features and functionalities across their sweet of products.
           | People expect to be able to pick up where they left of, and
           | have access to the same functionality as they largely do on
           | the rest of the devices.
           | 
           | It's nice even if something is _not_ your primary
           | productivity device, to be able to execute or perform things
           | on them if that 's what happens to be in front of you at the
           | time.
        
           | whynotminot wrote:
           | > All in all, this device leaves me wondering who this is
           | for?
           | 
           | Who is any iPad for? They're nice screens attached to good
           | processors.
           | 
           | I bring mine to work to either read or watch videos over my
           | lunch break. Don't want the full size of a regular iPad.
           | Don't want to use my work laptop with my personal service
           | accounts like YouTube, Netflix, kindle, etc.
           | 
           | And while the Mini is small, it's still a substantial screen
           | size increase over using my regular sized iPhone for that
           | purpose.
        
           | brandonmenc wrote:
           | > Perhaps they are targeting people with a smaller iPhone who
           | want another device to watch YouTube.
           | 
           | Hi, it me.
           | 
           | I have an iPhone 13 Mini that will have to be pried from my
           | cold dead hands because it's about as big a phone as I'm
           | willing to carry (I'd still rather have the 5s form factor.)
           | 
           | I also have an iPad Mini that supplements it perfectly.
           | 
           | Really don't want anything larger, because I like to handle
           | it with one hand while walking or I'm propping it up in a
           | tight space like when I'm watching a how-to video while doing
           | a home-improvement project or working on my car.
           | 
           | There is absolutely no way I'd buy a phone as gigantic as a
           | Max.
           | 
           | Honestly not sure how people walk around with those things.
        
             | theshackleford wrote:
             | > There is absolutely no way I'd buy a phone as gigantic as
             | a Max.
             | 
             | It's not gigantic for everyone to be fair. I'm 6'1'' with
             | largish hands I suppose and the Max is a single hand device
             | for me. Small devices look comical in my hands. I was one
             | of those very well served by Apple starting to make larger
             | devices, and it's when I shifted over from Android full
             | time to iOS devices. (I was very fond of the early
             | generation Galaxy Note devices prior to that.)
             | 
             | > Honestly not sure how people walk around with those
             | things.
             | 
             | The same way as I do anything of that size. It goes in my
             | pocket or i'm holding it?
             | 
             | I get where you are coming from those because my partner
             | has a much smaller 13 line device and we've done some basic
             | testing and like you, shifting to a Max sized
             | device...well, its just not very likely. My phone looks
             | absolutely jumbo once you put it in her teeny hands.
        
               | brandonmenc wrote:
               | I mean yeah, of course I _know_ how people hold and walk
               | around with these devices. I was being silly.
               | 
               | Everything you said about large hands rings true for
               | small hands and the mini form factor, but instead of just
               | looking silly it's a hinderance.
               | 
               | We need both form factors. What I don't think we need is
               | the weird middle size (current regular iPhone size), but
               | I'm sure that's probably the one most people actually
               | want if they could only pick one.
        
               | lukev wrote:
               | I dunno, I'm 6'2" with corresponding hand size and I'm in
               | the "won't go larger than a 13 mini" camp.
               | 
               | I think preference probably plays a bigger role than
               | size. I see a lot of tiny people manhandling pros and
               | maxes too.
        
               | theshackleford wrote:
               | For most people, preference likely plays a bigger role,
               | but for me, it's all about the size of my hands and
               | fingers. I find smaller devices uncomfortable for
               | anything beyond basic phone use. As a computing device
               | where touch is the primary interaction, I prefer
               | something larger, which is why I stuck with Android when
               | Apple wasn't making bigger phones. It's also about being
               | able to have it further from my face.
               | 
               | At the time, many Apple users claimed no one wanted
               | larger phones and that Apple's size was perfect. I
               | disagreed and voted with my wallet. For me, there are no
               | downsides to a larger device--I can still use it one-
               | handed, it fits in my pockets, and going smaller wouldn't
               | make it any more portable or usable.
               | 
               | For others, it's the opposite. A smaller phone may be
               | easier to handle or fit better in pockets or everyday
               | carry. So I agree there should be different sizes to meet
               | different needs, including smaller options if the market
               | supports them. Among my circle, smaller phones tend to be
               | the preference for those who primarily use their device
               | for calls and texts. Anything beyond that, like browsing,
               | moves to a tablet. These people are generally in their
               | mid-30s to mid-40s.
               | 
               | Interestingly, the 'non-techy' people I know with larger
               | phones say it's because they use a popsocket or view
               | their phone more as a computer than a phone. They're
               | willing to trade off size for a bigger screen. Many of
               | them don't own another personal computing device, aside
               | from maybe a tablet. They're typically in their 20s to
               | 30s.
               | 
               | I feel like I'm part of a shrinking group that still uses
               | both a laptop and a desktop as my primary computing
               | environments.
        
               | thefroh wrote:
               | for me, my desktop and laptop are the main go-to. the
               | mobile is an extra device with different, more specific
               | use cases
               | 
               | and so I've been a little disappointed with how these
               | devices keep getting bigger and bigger. I was pretty
               | happy with the size of the Pixel 3
               | 
               | I think I like to be able to access the whole screen
               | comfortably with one hand, not fumbling it about. easy to
               | manipulate, easy to pocket. the Pixel 8 shrunk a bit over
               | its predecessors so I nabbed that, and it's probably at
               | or just over the limit for me, size wise
        
               | sph wrote:
               | There are dozens of us big humans whose ideal form factor
               | is the 12/13 mini. Dozens!
               | 
               | Why do I need to carry around a huge screen to text, make
               | phone calls and take pictures?
        
               | trwhite wrote:
               | I'm 6'7" (with corresponding hand size) and prefer the
               | mini too
        
               | hbs18 wrote:
               | I'm 5'8" and have no problem at all using a Max one-
               | handed (provided it's not in a case). Is it difficult for
               | you to shift the grip on your phone while you're holding
               | it?
        
             | stevage wrote:
             | If I didn't have to spend the $, I'd totally have a small
             | phone for when I leave the house, and a bigger device like
             | this for when I'm at home.
        
             | 0x6c6f6c wrote:
             | I really dislike larger phones. I had tried out iOS with
             | the iPhone X and it'd been a few years. Then Apple killed
             | the Mini the year I was going to give them a go
        
           | steveBK123 wrote:
           | > who this is for?
           | 
           | I dunno, every Boomer guy I know with disposable income seems
           | to have settled into Big iPad, iPad mini and iPhone as their
           | compute stack.
           | 
           | I think for them it's like desk/table computer (Big iPad),
           | sofa computer (iPad mini), out&about computer (iPhone).
           | 
           | I know guys like this who haven't even really owned a
           | computer-computer (MacBook or otherwise) for 5+ years.
        
           | Tagbert wrote:
           | " The comparatively small difference in screen real estate
           | between an iPhone Pro Max and the iPad mini makes the latter
           | rather pointless."
           | 
           | While the linear diagonal size of the screens are not so much
           | different, the area of the iPad Mini is significantly larger.
           | I ran the numbers a month or so on it when someone was making
           | the same claim of equivalence. I don't recall the specifics
           | now but I think the iPad screen had at least 60% more area.
           | That is significant.
           | 
           | " Not sure why this necessitates AI hardware"
           | 
           | It would be hard for Apple to put in a chipset now that
           | didn't support AI. All of their SOCs for the past 10 years
           | have had neural processors. This A17 Pro has 8GB of RAM. All
           | of their recent SOCs have the 8GB of RAM needed to run AI.
           | Why not?
        
         | wvenable wrote:
         | Screens come in standard sizes. It might simply be that they
         | can't fit all the parts inside, including the battery, without
         | making the device bigger than the standard screen size and so
         | you get bezels. Bigger devices have more room in them and many
         | of the parts are just the same size.
        
           | Retr0id wrote:
           | Are "standard" screen sizes really something you have to care
           | about at Apple-scale?
        
             | wvenable wrote:
             | Yes, LCDs are made as giant sheets that are cut into
             | panels. They will want to cut those sheets in a way to
             | ensure the least amount of waste as possible. They are not
             | making them completely arbitrary sizes.
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | That giant sheet of mother glass is 2940mm x 3370mm.
               | Cutting efficiency dictates the size of TVs, but it's
               | basically irrelevant for phone or tablet displays.
        
               | wvenable wrote:
               | Each block or piece of mother glass can be used for
               | dozens or even hundreds of LCDs but it seems obvious that
               | there are only so many ways you can effectively slice it.
               | 
               | While manufacturers can theoretically produce custom-
               | sized LCD panels, it's more economical and efficient to
               | stick to standard sizes that align with their production
               | lines. Producing custom-sized panels can involve
               | retooling. Choosing a standard size also ensures greater
               | availability.
               | 
               | For a low cost product, I don't see why Apple would mess
               | around with LCD sizes.
               | 
               | Still, this is just a guess. Only Apple knows for sure.
        
             | nfriedly wrote:
             | No. Screen sizes come in whatever size Apple orders them
             | in.
        
         | chemmail wrote:
         | Ipad Mini is such a good size. My friend lent me his Mini2 when
         | he borrowed money from me and used it for a good 6 months i
         | think and it was marvelous. I didn't use it all that much but
         | later got an Air 2 and used it maybe slightly less. Then I got
         | an iPad Pro 11" but only used it for a while and don't really
         | touch it too much anymore. I feel maybe an ipad mini I would
         | use more. But the jelly scroll really has me urked and I kinda
         | want OLED on it, so there is definitely room for a Pro version
         | if they wish, but the iPads are overwhelming with 5 sizes
         | already.
        
           | 1oooqooq wrote:
           | > overwhelming with 5 sizes already.
           | 
           | without jobs it's just a matter of time they go back to being
           | "just an expensive dell" like before
        
             | dullcrisp wrote:
             | What makes you say that?
        
               | imchillyb wrote:
               | Not OP, but...
               | 
               | That very behavior was troublesome for Apple in the past,
               | twice.
               | 
               | Two times Steve Jobs swooped in and saved Apple from
               | Dell-ifying themselves. Twice.
               | 
               | Since Job's demise, Apple has relentlessly marched toward
               | Dellification once more. The immediate revenue is
               | tantalizing, it's the dilution of ones own market that
               | ends up killing the golden goose, and the eggs they lay.
        
               | fhdsgbbcaA wrote:
               | Don't worry, locking you into their services will make it
               | impossible to leave!
               | 
               | The one overarching success of the Tim Cook era is
               | ruthlessly pursuing consumer lock in at all costs.
        
               | exitb wrote:
               | There are a lot of customers locked in the ecosystem,
               | sure. The question is whether the ecosystem is still able
               | to attract new customers, as it once was.
        
               | crossroadsguy wrote:
               | Not sure. But is it possible that the reason could be for
               | such a statement - just open eyes, ears, and more
               | importantly an open mind and immunity from iFandom?
               | 
               | I mean please just look at their product pages on
               | apple.com.
        
             | JimDabell wrote:
             | Steve Jobs has been dead for 13 years. Whatever was going
             | to happen without him already has.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | It can take a long time for corporate culture to rot. It
               | took Google about 15-20 years to fully reach their
               | villain arc.
               | 
               | Currently they have Tim Cook at the helm whi is good at
               | continuing Job's vision as the two worked very close for
               | a long time, so the big question is what happens after
               | Cook leaves.
        
               | pests wrote:
               | > It took Google about 15-20 years to fully reach their
               | villain arc.
               | 
               | Google has only been around for 26 years, Gmail for 20. I
               | agree they have reached the villain arc but I disagree
               | with the timeline.
        
         | Dalewyn wrote:
         | >Why is the bezel so thick?
         | 
         | So you have somewhere to actually hold the bloody thing.
         | 
         | Bezelless gadgets look great in photos but are impractical as
         | fuck to handle.
        
         | 1oooqooq wrote:
         | because the target audience of mini ipads are babies.
        
         | askafriend wrote:
         | It's likely they're repurposing slightly older display
         | inventory to preserve margins, recoup R&D costs and to bring
         | overall component costs lower since this is meant to be a
         | cheaper device.
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | It's about 9mm which is not that thick. It really does make a
         | difference in how you can hold it one-handed and without
         | accidentally touching the screen. Most phones and thin-bezel
         | tablets need to be held very carefully.
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | Maybe I'm weird, but I don't mind having a bit of bezel around
         | the screen. It makes the device easier to grab without extra
         | touches or fingerprints on the screen. It's also a good place
         | for cameras and front-facing speakers. (Although I don't think
         | any iPad has front facing speakers.)
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | I only ever saw one tablet with front facing speakers and I
           | am to this way still baffled why I only saw one altogether,
           | it seems like the most sensible design for a tablet.
        
         | fhdsgbbcaA wrote:
         | Honestly with a tablet I prefer some bezel so I can hold it
         | without touching the screen. I have both a 9th Gen iPad and an
         | M2 iPad Pro, I use the "inferior" one almost exclusively.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | My thoughts exactly, when I first saw it I thought I had landed
         | on a launch article from 2014
        
         | Tagbert wrote:
         | Bezels are useful for devices that you can't just hold in the
         | flat of your hand. Provides a place to hold on to.
         | 
         | Also, this is an LCD screen. The substrate is rigid. An OLED,
         | like on the iPhone is on a flexible substrate and can be bent
         | at the edges to connect to the circuit board. That lets you put
         | the screen closer to the edge.
        
           | FirmwareBurner wrote:
           | I have had phones and tablets with IPS displays with way
           | thinner bezels so that argument is void.
        
             | CraigJPerry wrote:
             | Only on 3 sides I think though? You still need an edge
             | connector on one side (i think)
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Yeah, but even on the "thicker" side they're stil way
               | thinner than the current iPad Minis.
        
             | nsonha wrote:
             | Which argument? Pretty obvious the bezel is that way for
             | usability (so you can hold the device). That other devices
             | exist with thin bezel does not prove anything.
        
           | maven29 wrote:
           | The technique you mention is very outdated and not used
           | anymore. Current thin-bezel OLED panels (even on flexible
           | substrate OLED) use a packaging technique which can be used
           | in the exactly same way on rigid LCD panels. Folding the
           | substrate with driver bonded is expensive, affects yields,
           | and doesn't even get you the thinnest bezels
           | 
           | There are no LCD panels in recent phones that use COG
           | packaging (chip-on-glass) for the display driver and run into
           | the limitation you mentioned. Almost all current LCD phones
           | will utitlize COF (chip-on-film) where the TFT array is
           | attached to a flex-pcb which also contains the display
           | driver.
           | 
           | You can achieve bezels just as thin or thinner using this
           | technique, and Apple has used the technique you mention only
           | once, COF is used even on flexible OLED panels.
        
         | simjnd wrote:
         | The iPad mini is a second-class product in Apple's lineup. It
         | rarely gets updated, and if you use one you will see how poorly
         | UI is scaled. I was really hyped up and really wanted one, but
         | after using one I gave up on the idea. The 60 Hz LCD screen is
         | also among the worst screen of all the products Apple currently
         | sells.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | Wow, so negative! I use mine heavily, including right now.
           | Mostly with Chrome and Google apps, though, along with
           | Kindle. Also, Genshin Impact to play games with the kid.
           | 
           | Best tablet I've owned. Genshin Impact uses a huge amount of
           | space, though.
        
             | Temporary_31337 wrote:
             | Why don't you want to use a bigger iPad? I play, read
             | graphic novels and watch videos on the larger iPad as more
             | screen estate is better.
        
               | arghwhat wrote:
               | Why don't you want to use a _bigger_ screen? I play and
               | watch videos on a 75" TV as more screen estate is better.
               | 
               | Bigger is not always better, but it's almost always
               | costlier and less convenient.
        
               | skybrian wrote:
               | My wife has one and it seems too big and heavy for most
               | things I do. Good for sheet music, though.
        
           | 2024user wrote:
           | I have an iPad mini and it's pretty much perfect as it is for
           | my use case. I use it as a device I can pick up and watch
           | videos while on the go or doing an activity (cooking etc.),
           | show videos to my kid and as a device I can travel with.
           | 
           | The only complaint I have with it is that it only supports
           | one profile but I think that applies to all ipads
        
             | gwervc wrote:
             | I'm at my second iPad mini, and finally bought a new Apple
             | Pencil. I'm still angry about the pencil battery not being
             | replaceable, and the iPad is the device I use the least
             | among laptop and phone, but there's something really nice
             | about the mini form factor.
             | 
             | My single use case is reading research papers. I also do
             | that on pc but the ipad mini is great to take a paper and
             | read it entirely without distractions and with the ability
             | to take handwritten notes. That was a nice combo with the
             | lab couch when I was in PhD. Also the fact it can be held
             | in one hand, especially nice when presenting or walking.
        
           | torginus wrote:
           | that's a pity. I had a regular iPad, I used it for document
           | browsing and regular reading. I eventually gave up on it
           | because it was just too big and too heavy and required two
           | hands to hold it.
           | 
           | I really wanted something that'more Kindle-sized, which the
           | iPad mini seems to be, which is the perfect form factor for
           | one handed usability.
        
         | tuatoru wrote:
         | The device can have a bigger battery with a thick bezel.
        
           | crossroadsguy wrote:
           | Can have or does have?
        
         | donatj wrote:
         | I upgraded to an M2 Air from an iPad 7 a couple months ago, My
         | biggest complaint apart from the worse battery life is that
         | there is no way to safely hold the thing one handed while
         | walking while not be interacting with the screen.
         | 
         | Give me somewhere to hold the thing!
        
         | janandonly wrote:
         | I recently purchased the M1 iPad Air and was also shocked that
         | the bezel was a lot thicker than my much older IPad Air 2.
         | 
         | I don't know why we put up with this regression in technology.
        
         | stetrain wrote:
         | > Could it be that since this device is only $650 USD
         | 
         | It's $499 USD. And if it's like the previous gen it will be on
         | sale for $399 in a year or so.
        
         | burnte wrote:
         | I own it, the bezels can't really be much thinner on the small
         | device, they're well sized. They don't look as big on the real
         | thing in person.
        
         | soapdog wrote:
         | I have it. The bezels make it easier to hold. I like them,
         | never understood the appeal of borderless devices to be honest
        
         | tigereyeTO wrote:
         | Bezels are good. Bezels are GREAT. They give you something to
         | hold without interacting with the screen.
         | 
         | If you've ever used a device with edge-to-edge, you know you
         | have to hold it like a diva with 10-inch nails--it is neither
         | comfortable nor effective.
         | 
         | In my opinion, the industry's trend towards smaller-and-smaller
         | bezels has made it MORE difficult to interact with them than
         | the advances gained by having a few millimeters larger screens.
         | 
         | Leave the bezels alone, bud
        
           | rowanG077 wrote:
           | What's wrong with virtual bezels? Seems to me to be the best
           | of both worlds. People who can't handle an ipad without
           | bezels can just configure whatever they want.
        
             | lupusreal wrote:
             | I didn't know that was a thing. Granted, I don't own one...
             | but my grandmother does and would benefit from this
             | feature. I suspect the people who need it the most are the
             | least likely to know it's an option. With real bezels they
             | don't need to.
        
               | yunohn wrote:
               | AFAIK it's not a thing on my iPad. Maybe parent was
               | expressing a desired feature?
        
           | tcdent wrote:
           | Makes me think of my MacBook Air. The only part of the screen
           | with fingerprints on it is over the front facing camera.
        
         | KoolKat23 wrote:
         | I have 12 inch Honor Mate Pad 9 and I think the bezels are
         | smaller than this thing. The tablet cost EUR250 and is great
         | value for money. I never have any issues with the thin bezel
         | ever. It's a tablet after all. You don't hold it and control it
         | with one hand. Even to do so on an 8 inch tablet would be a
         | stretch.
         | 
         | It's probably just that though. If the bezels were smaller, the
         | device would be too close to an iPhone size and cannibalize
         | sales.
        
         | nathanasmith wrote:
         | I don't know but I have a Galaxy Fold and I hate the tiny
         | bezels it has in tablet mode. Trying not to touch the screen
         | while holding it adds unnecessary cognitive load and just makes
         | it feel fiddly. I also have a previous gen iPad mini and I love
         | the thicker bezels.
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | Since Apple Intelligence won't be available in the EU, this is a
       | very underwhelming refresh.
       | 
       | I do love my iPad Mini to bits though. I use mine purely to read,
       | sketch and take notes. It does not receive any notifications. I
       | carry it almost everywhere I go.
        
       | jdswain wrote:
       | I got an 8" Android tablet instead of an iPad mini. What I
       | wanted, was to have something really compact that I could use
       | emacs on, mainly for org-roam, notes and writing in general, not
       | for writing code. It works well with termux, I don't think there
       | is a good way to have a local version of emacs on iOS.
       | 
       | The keyboard is the most important part really (although I did
       | want a good screen too). I'm on my second keyboard, they are only
       | about $30 each, which is better than iPad prices. The first one
       | wasn't so convenient to unfold quickly, the new one is working
       | really well.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Can I just get a a flagship iPhone sized like an iPhone SE
       | please?
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Rumor has it that the SE 4 will be released in early 2025.
         | 
         | It will have the new flagship A18 processor and adequate RAM
         | for Apple Intelligence.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, it will be larger (6.1") than the SE 3 (4.7").
         | Probably with a notch and Face ID as well. :(
        
         | grandpoobah wrote:
         | Tim Cook here - go fuck yourself.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | My theory is that this will only ever happen if battery
         | technology improves enough that they can get the same battery
         | life as current flagship models, but in that smaller form
         | factor. People may say they don't care about battery life or
         | charging, but if a year or two in you have to charge every
         | night, it is an inconvenience, even if not front and center. I
         | suspect this is one of the main reasons they don't want to do
         | that right now, they don't want to create this image of oh
         | damn, my Apple device is out of battery again.
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | That page uses a lot of words to say,
       | 
       |  _" We added more RAM because there's no way we could make an LLM
       | useful in only 4GB. While we were there, we updated the CPU.
       | Might as well.(We grabbed the A17 Pro because we were in a
       | rush.)"_
        
       | hankman86 wrote:
       | One would think that they avoid the embarrassment of releasing
       | another device before their AI features are even available. But
       | no.
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | Remember folks, this is a US$3Trillion company and they can't
         | get their flagship products shipped.
         | 
         | Something is very wrong at Apple.
        
       | thr0waway001 wrote:
       | Never had an iPad but I think I will buy this one.
        
       | ratedgene wrote:
       | I'm curious about users who do use something similar. I have an
       | iPad pro, but I find either a notebook and pen, or butcher paper
       | and pen to be far superior for capturing anything.
       | 
       | Can someone tell me how they're increasing their creative
       | productivity with these outside of making illustrations?
       | 
       | I have a ton of ideas that I organize and illustrate, but I can't
       | give up my pen/paper as I haven't found the killer combo yet.
        
         | dmix wrote:
         | > but I find either a notebook and pen, or butcher paper and
         | pen to be far superior for capturing anything.
         | 
         | I have phases where I convince myself this is true, in between
         | switching back to a note taking app (TickTick last few yrs) and
         | every time I go back it's because it a) has total historical
         | recall + a search box when I want to find something and b) I
         | already carry my phone everywhere, like the grocery store, or
         | I'm on my laptop for work.
         | 
         | Papers only true benefit is focus and "zen" stuff.
        
         | CubsFan1060 wrote:
         | Using Goodnotes (because it has pretty good search) and
         | https://shop.astropad.com/products/rock-paper-pencil, made it a
         | much more enjoyable experience for me.
         | 
         | Of course, I'm also pretty bad at taking notes in general, so I
         | don't use it nearly as much as I should.
        
       | DennisP wrote:
       | I'm wondering how advanced it can get with the math. If it had
       | capabilities like decent symbolic math software, that'd be pretty
       | interesting.
        
       | gcanyon wrote:
       | If it were possible to do so, I would possibly buy this as my new
       | "phone":                  - I almost never hold my phone to my
       | ear        - I don't need the dual-lens features of the new
       | iPhones        - Standby battery life seems up to the challenge
       | - Apple doesn't offer the iPhone Mini anymore, which is what I'm
       | carrying now. If I'm going bigger, why not actually go BIGger.
       | 
       | Things holding me back:                  - Not actually sure
       | about the battery life        - As far as I know you can't
       | transfer your actual phone line to a Mini
        
         | deepfriedchokes wrote:
         | Google Voice?
        
         | dayvid wrote:
         | Samsung has a Galaxy fold which I'm interested in buying as a
         | second device. I'd imagine Apple has to have something similar
         | as a prototype as it seems like a no brainer
        
           | lannisterstark wrote:
           | Problem with current folds is that I want the screen to
           | open/extend. I don't want to open YET ANOTHER LARGER screen.
           | This makes most sense tbf. You want a phone to extend into a
           | tablet, and actually have the first screen still be usable.
           | It cuts down cost and waste of always having at least one
           | screen always off.
           | 
           | Original Huawei mate x and the new trifold does what I'd
           | like. But then again... Huawei so can't in US lol.
        
         | walterbell wrote:
         | iPad Mini cellular is data-only. PSTN calls and SMS require a
         | VOIP client or separate dumbphone. E2EE audio/video are
         | available in several messaging apps, including FaceTime, making
         | good use of the larger screen.
         | 
         | TouchID is good for fast and reliable unlock.
        
           | jonpurdy wrote:
           | I've been using data-only SIMs (and now eSIMS) since 2015.
           | Bria voip client with voip.ms providing DIDs. Works
           | wonderfully well and I can highly recommend going voip-only
           | if you can.
           | 
           | The thing holding me back from going iPad Mini instead of
           | iPhone was Apple Watch needs the iPhone (for some reason you
           | can't use an iPad or Mac). Not an issue anymore. But now I
           | rely on the amazing 16 Pro camera (with Halide shooting RAW)
           | to mostly replace my mirrorless RX1, so yet another reason to
           | stay iPhone.
        
             | nsteel wrote:
             | Does voip.ms work with 2FA services e.g. those used by
             | banks? I have heard it doesn't and that's a dealbreaker for
             | me.
        
               | jonpurdy wrote:
               | It works for most of them, but not all. And sometimes a
               | service originally supports it, but then changes and
               | doesn't, which means you need to get in touch with them
               | to fix it.
               | 
               | I now have a Tello eSIM ($5/mo) that I use just for the
               | 3-4 services that don't support voip.ms. And only turn it
               | on when I need it.
        
         | ks2048 wrote:
         | Last last point makes me wonder: why have phone numbers at all?
        
           | thrdbndndn wrote:
           | There are still lots of services requiring a phone number (at
           | registering or using it for 2FA). No one likes it but that's
           | the reality.
           | 
           | And no, virtual numbers like Google Voice are often (but not
           | always) blocked.
        
             | ks2048 wrote:
             | I can see why people want a phone number now. I was
             | thinking more about why society doesn't move away from
             | phone numbers (for me, it's been a hastle to be linked to a
             | carrier and a country)
        
               | joha4270 wrote:
               | What better system can you think off? That allows calling
               | the doctor, a restaurant, or that friend-of-a-friend who
               | is selling a tractor? Without requiring people self-host
               | a brunch of infrastructure (I like self-hosting stuff,
               | most people wouldn't)
               | 
               | Also, inertia
        
               | cujo wrote:
               | i think the problem isn't the phone number, but the
               | special hardware/vendor lock in that is required for it.
               | if you travel a lot or live in a country where it is just
               | easy to cross borders as a part of life, it quickly
               | becomes obvious that being tethered to a regional
               | provider for your phone number is a problem.
               | 
               | you end up paying ridiculous roaming fees to keep your
               | number active in the other country, or you lose any
               | ability for people to contact you by phone. it's
               | incredibly frustrating when voip is so close, but not the
               | 100% solution. couple that with providers still charging
               | ridiculous fees to call numbers in other countries and it
               | gets even worse.
        
               | L3viathan wrote:
               | > if you [] live in a country where it is just easy to
               | cross borders as a part of life, [] providers still
               | charging ridiculous fees
               | 
               | What places other than the EU does the "easy to cross
               | borders as a part of life" apply to?
        
               | cujo wrote:
               | why does it matter? but to answer: literally near any
               | bordering country.
        
         | initplus wrote:
         | You'll likely run into frustrating app availability issues.
         | Releasing iPhone apps on iPad is not universally done. (looking
         | at you WhatsApp)
        
         | crossroadsguy wrote:
         | > dual-lens features of the new iPhones
         | 
         | Dual? I guess some of the iPhone 16 models might have 7-8 of
         | them by now. (I have not checked the whole 16 lineup yet, they
         | have not bumped up the lens count, or have they?). My old 14
         | has 2 though. Yup, just checked - it's two. I guess it must be
         | like two plane engines. If one is broken the other will work (I
         | also guess/hope that's how plane engines work).
         | 
         | > iPhone Mini anymore, which is what I'm carrying now
         | 
         | I tried. The battery was atrocious. To make the battery last
         | till early or kinda late evening I had to actively not use the
         | phone, so I finally gave in and moved to the smallest iPhablet
         | i.e iPhone 14 at that time (actually there was 15 as well but I
         | guess the only difference for me between the two was the price
         | difference). It's been said iPhone Mini 13 was the last of the
         | small phone lineage and there will be no more.
        
         | wildekek wrote:
         | > I almost never hold my phone to my ear
         | 
         | Please tell me why people do this.
        
           | freedomben wrote:
           | When you around other people (so speaker phone is
           | inappropriate) and don't have earbuds.
        
       | dangoodmanUT wrote:
       | BEZEL
        
       | llIIllIIllIIl wrote:
       | This Apple Intelligence starts reminding about Tesla Autopilot. I
       | hope they will not hire people on the other side of the world to
       | click buttons on your phone.
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | That's not how Autopilot works.
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | Apple Intelligence more like Apple Idiotic as ...
       | 
       | - Today the summary it gave to an iMessage was "Going to sleep,
       | talk to you tomorrow." The girl and I scheduled a video chat date
       | and she said nothing of the sort rather, "Getting ready for
       | tomorrow (along with some other stuff), talk to you soon."
       | 
       | - Siri is still stupid especially compared to ChatGPT on the same
       | iPhone. I use ChatGPT.. speak to it to count my calories
       | throughout the day at the various places i eat at (Chipolte,
       | Cava, Panera, etc) which it knows calories for everything,
       | calculates and keeps track so i add later add my dinner calorie
       | count .. it even knows how many calories i had on Saturday (still
       | recalls it and speaks it upon me asking). Siri via Apple
       | Intelligence is still the old stupid Siri one pony trick which
       | you still can only speak to it once vs. ChatGPT have a
       | conversation with.
       | 
       | What was this Apple Intelligence supposed to do and how was it
       | supposed to be better? I want a ChatGPT phone and by Microsoft
       | sure their Windows Phone was nice!
        
         | jojobas wrote:
         | There's intelligence, and there's Apple intelligence.
        
         | mbirth wrote:
         | Now turn off the Internet connection and try talking to ChatGPT
         | again...
        
       | stanislavb wrote:
       | What I want Apple to introduce is a multi-user option for the
       | iPad. Then, I'm buying one of them for the family. We just don't
       | want (or need) an iPad per person.
        
       | xyz-x wrote:
       | Too bad Apple hasn't released Apple AI at all; why bother with
       | press releases featuring it? (EU)
        
       | seanvelasco wrote:
       | i would've considered this if it had slimmer bezels or a 120 Hz
       | display.
       | 
       | the current iPad Mini is laggy compared to other iPads, and i'm
       | not sure why. an iPhone with the same processor is not laggy at
       | all. it becomes obvious when scrolling or opening and closing
       | apps.
        
       | alexellisuk wrote:
       | If Apple's listening.. a 120Hz would have sold this for me. I'm
       | still on a 2018 iPad Pro because the upgrade isn't worth the
       | enormous cost including a basic keyboard and pencil, and the only
       | device that has a 120Hz drawing experience is that iPad Pro.
       | 
       | For anyone who thinks the pencil on a 60Hz screen is "great", you
       | need to try it on an iPad Pro next time you're in the apple
       | store. You'll see the difference between the "ink" trailing and
       | lagging, and actually drawing as you move the nib.
        
       | Jiahang wrote:
       | i use it like Kindle
        
       | imposter wrote:
       | I find it hilarious that Apple is selling the new iphones with AI
       | features that only works on the new devices because they
       | apparently don't require the cloud, and instead run locally.
       | 
       | Apple's logic:- saving private photos on the cloud is good for
       | privacy, while doing AI computation on the cloud is somehow bad
       | for it ?
        
         | blahgeek wrote:
         | The logic is sound. Storage can be end-to-end encrypted, but it
         | cannot be used for computation.
        
       | nox101 wrote:
       | I've heard through the grapevine that Apple is having trouble
       | making Apple Intelligence not give lots of bad or wrong
       | advice/suggestions/etc... (same as most LLMs).
       | 
       | I would be amazing to me (as in "get out the popcorn") if Apple
       | decided not to ship Apple Intelligence and came out with a public
       | statement saying LLM tech is not ready or is a dead end and
       | effectively implying that other LLM companies are selling snake
       | oil.
       | 
       | https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/10/llms-cant-perform-genuine...
        
         | BillyTheKing wrote:
         | People just have less tolerance for errors using apple
         | products.. that doesn't mean that other LLM companies sell
         | snake-oil, people just have a higher error tolerance for them
         | and are learning to work 'with' those LLMs
        
         | cujo wrote:
         | working with llms as part of my day job and i wouldn't fault
         | them one bit. the errors and reliability issues are not
         | overblown.
        
       | zombot wrote:
       | Selling machine learning stuff as "intelligence" raises false
       | expectations and is ultimately fraud. I can't wait for this whole
       | overblown hype to crash and burn.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I dunno, it could be construed as a marketing phrase well
         | enough, not unlike other technologies they have - True Tone,
         | Cinema, etc. I mean the Apple TV isn't a TV.
         | 
         | Autopilot is more henious I think because it was actually
         | marketed as autopilot.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | Autopilot literally does what it means
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot
        
         | crossroadsguy wrote:
         | That's an Apple thing. They developed this habit (if not
         | addiction) after bringing features to their devices very late,
         | sometimes a decade later than their competitors. They thought
         | it was better to call those basic features with fancy multi
         | word names with (tm) symbols at the end and that resonates with
         | their fan base in perfect harmony. So I think the habit stuck.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | Oh yes, because the other companies don't call machine
           | learning 'intelligence' ;)
        
           | spogbiper wrote:
           | high dpi = "Retina"
           | 
           | high refresh rate = "Promotion"
           | 
           | vibrating phone = "Taptic Engine"
           | 
           | there are probably more. and calling AR "spatial computing"
           | seems similar though I don't think its completely a made up
           | marketing term
        
         | TheDong wrote:
         | And the "magic mouse" is actually just powered by electricity.
         | 
         | "Intelligence", like magic, has vague and diffuse enough
         | meaning that there's basically no chance of it being actual
         | fraud.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | Apple will make smart light bulb and sell it as a revolutionary
         | intelligent light control system. If it weren't for their brand
         | reputation, they'd look like one of the worst scam companies in
         | tech, right down to the spelling mistakes in their descriptions
         | (for some reason they don't like to use definite or indefinite
         | articles for their products which always make their marketing
         | seem like a bad machine translation to me).
        
         | jarsin wrote:
         | I just saw an AI ad with Keanu Reeves in it swinging a sword at
         | drones. I wonder how much they paid him to be in such a stupid
         | commercial?
         | 
         | Gave me the dotcom vibes big time.
        
         | SilverBirch wrote:
         | I think that ship has sailed when the "smart" phone category
         | was created.
        
         | sbob wrote:
         | They call their support personnel "geniuses" - what else would
         | you expect :)
        
       | c120 wrote:
       | Looks like this is eSIM only - which is a show stopper. I'll have
       | to research if they release a SIM mobile option somewhere on
       | earth, if not, I'll probably stick with my current Mini 5 a bit
       | longer (or pick up a discounted Mini 6 for the wait)
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Why would that be a show stopper? eSIM is incredibly widely
         | available (see [0] and [1]), you have a number of choices in
         | most countries these days.
         | 
         | [0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/101569
         | 
         | [1] https://esim-world.com/
        
           | corywright wrote:
           | For me, it's a showstopper because Google Fi does not yet
           | support eSIMs for their data-only SIMs.
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | _Someone_ had to have the courage to drop the physical SIM slot
        
       | lynguist wrote:
       | I want this but why no OLED? :'(
       | 
       | iPhone went OLED in 2017. And they didn't OLED the poor iPad mini
       | (the best iPad) in a newly released model in 2024!? :'(
        
       | stonecharioteer wrote:
       | It sucks that Samsung doesn't have a 7 inch Galaxy S10 Tablet. I
       | would buy that, and I own a tab S9 Ultra. Samsung, make a 7 inch
       | tablet with a Qualcomm chip and AMOLED screen please! I'll take
       | even an 8 inch screen.
        
       | janandonly wrote:
       | In the EU , I don't see any mentioning of "intelligence". Just a
       | "new iPad mini"
        
       | brainzap wrote:
       | I bought an ipad mini second hand this year, it is so fun. I use
       | it heavily for note taking with pencil, audio notes and watching
       | youtube.
        
       | fullstackchris wrote:
       | Can they stop with the iPad crap? I just want to see the macbook
       | pro M4 stuff!
        
       | eravulgaris wrote:
       | Oh nice. Just in time for a barely upgraded Siri!
        
       | styczen wrote:
       | stil without terminal , brew and cc
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Why would you want this on an appliance? Would you expect
         | terminal or brew on your toaster?
        
       | gregoriol wrote:
       | What is going on with Apple's ratio on the iPads: all the
       | original models had 4/3, then iPad Air 4 and iPad 10 got ~4.3/3,
       | then iPad mini 6 got ~4.5/3
       | 
       | What could be Apple's rationale on this? why so many slightly
       | different formats? and why those, they add black bars or crop to
       | most normal content... pictures from the camera for example are
       | still in 4/3 so they are cropped in Photos, videos are in 16/9 so
       | they still have black bars, ...
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | This is especially amusing to me because back in the day when
         | iOS developers would shit on Android, they almost all said
         | (verbatim) "fragmentation" as the reason why iOS was great and
         | Android sucked. "On Android you have a bunch of different
         | screen sizes to deal with so it's hard to make a nice app. On
         | iOS it's all standardized and simple. That is the Apple Way and
         | the whole ecosystem is consistent like that which makes it a
         | joy to develop for and use."
        
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