[HN Gopher] Mothbox 4.0
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       Mothbox 4.0
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 265 points
       Date   : 2024-10-15 14:10 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (digital-naturalism-laboratories.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (digital-naturalism-laboratories.github.io)
        
       | morninglight wrote:
       | This could be a great teaching tool, BUT at about $375 per
       | Mothbox, it's going to be a hard sell for most schools.
        
         | hansihe wrote:
         | $375 per box doesn't seem bad to me at all when you probably
         | only need a couple per school?
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | Yeah, i feel like currently they are at about the price of
           | camera traps 10 years ago. There is very little mass-
           | manufacturability to them right now (it's all open source and
           | made from off-the-shelf parts) but later if we can find more
           | funding, we are going to make a design more for manufacturing
           | which should hopefully drive the costs down even more! :)
        
             | fn-mote wrote:
             | > There is very little mass-manufacturability to them right
             | now (it's all open source and made from off-the-shelf
             | parts)
             | 
             | This is the obstruction to using them in an educational
             | setting. If they were available for $600+ each but already
             | completely built (minimal DIY), they would be more likely
             | to get into (some) schools.
        
               | max-ibel wrote:
               | OTOH, it'd a fun science project just to built one, for
               | maybe a different set of kids that operate the box.
               | 
               | Just needs motivated teachers, if you ask me. I assume
               | the mothbox is more of a high-school project, building
               | one seems on that level as well.
        
               | hikinghack wrote:
               | We have a group of kids in Rhode Island building some
               | with the library there! Part of a "Wildlives" program
               | where the kids also learn to put camera traps around the
               | local nature!
               | 
               | Def just needs motivated teachers!
        
               | hikinghack wrote:
               | totally! Right now we are just trying to get them out and
               | tested on science projects around the world, but
               | hopefully we can find funding to make more designs that
               | could be manufactured in bulk (like the audiomoth and
               | groupgets) and have even more of these things out and
               | about!
        
         | yapyap wrote:
         | I don't think it'll be a hard sell for schools at that price,
         | school budgets tend to be fairly elastic for new things (and
         | sometimes for wholly unnecessary things, for the price of less
         | than 1/4th of new MacBook for the principal (for example) they
         | could have this.
         | 
         | Edit: also if schools were to be interested in this (which they
         | should be, it's very neat) they could group together and buy in
         | bulk which would also greatly reduce the price
        
       | nerdponx wrote:
       | Are there any "citizen science" initiatives where I can buy a
       | device like this and upload my insect counts to some database
       | that's useful for researchers?
       | 
       | I have been interested in setting up some things like home
       | weather monitoring, ADS-B, streaming webcams for wildlife, etc.
       | anyway so this would be a fun item to add to that.
        
         | gibspaulding wrote:
         | Cornell is doing something along those lines for birds using
         | audio recordings. It's just a smartphone app though -
         | https://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/sound-id/
        
           | beardyw wrote:
           | I was using it today, and any day when there are birds
           | around. It correctly identifies birds you can barely hear.
           | It's become as useful as binoculars to me. A great free app.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | they also release the model. I've recorded hours of audio
           | outside my house and run it through the model on my desktop
           | with GPU.
        
             | abroadwin wrote:
             | Are they using birdnet or something else?
        
               | dekhn wrote:
               | sorry, yes, I'm referring to birdnet.
        
           | buescher wrote:
           | I have a pi running birdnet-pi on my porch.
           | https://www.birdweather.com/birdnetpi
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | Here is the related hardware widget. $200 with a $59/year
           | service for alerts etc.
           | 
           | https://haikubox.com/
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | Something of note that creators like that of Mothbox might
             | find interesting (if they didn't already know), Haikubox
             | was awarded about $1m from the NSF: SBIR Phase II: Building
             | a Nature Monitoring Network for Birds [0]. More about the
             | awarding NSF "directorate" here [1].
             | 
             | 0. https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=2135664
             | &His...
             | 
             | 1. https://new.nsf.gov/tip/latest
        
               | hikinghack wrote:
               | Oh thanks for sharing this!
        
         | aeturnum wrote:
         | I think the air gradient folks do some collaboration and it's
         | possible you could get your sensors linked into a bigger net by
         | contacting them: https://www.airgradient.com/research/
         | 
         | Edit: Also MIT did this recently:
         | https://news.mit.edu/2023/low-cost-device-can-measure-air-po...
        
         | Modified3019 wrote:
         | On a related note, I wish there was some sort of software
         | system where I could ID weeds and insects with photos and
         | locations at various levels of confidence ("possibly",
         | "probably", keyed out, genetic testing) at different taxonomic
         | levels and both self host my results while also automatically
         | contributing to a larger project.
         | 
         | There are various projects out there (like plantnet) but I
         | don't want to burn massive personal effort curating in a system
         | that isn't my own first and foremost, due to inevitable
         | enshittification. At the same time, I want others to benefit
         | from what I do, in particular local growers and naturalists.
         | Things like PlantNet also tend to be "majority vote" on ID,
         | meaning a whole lot is often close, but wrong. For example
         | there is a regional plant specific to my area called Willamette
         | Navarretia. Those that don't realize this will easily confuse
         | it with very similar looking species found most elsewhere in
         | the western US, and last I checked it wasn't in PlantNet.
         | 
         | https://www.oregon.gov/oda/programs/PlantConservation/SiteAs...
         | 
         | https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/165663-Navarretia-willamett...
        
           | doodlebugging wrote:
           | Have you tried iNaturalist? [0]
           | 
           | Insects, animals, plants, etc get posted from all over the
           | world for ID.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.inaturalist.org/
           | 
           | I post lots of photos of things I find locally and experts
           | step in and help ID the subjects when I don't know what I'm
           | seeing.
           | 
           | I also have a couple of AudioMoths for recording local sounds
           | including birds, insects, etc. Very high quality units at a
           | reasonable price.
           | 
           | I have seen this Mothbox posted a couple of times and almost
           | bought one since I know I have tons of moths attracted to my
           | native plants out here, but the price is a sticking point
           | right now. I think something like this combined with an
           | AudioMoth and some trail cams would be a good local wildlife
           | monitor setup.
        
             | Modified3019 wrote:
             | _edit_ so it turns out, at least a significant part of
             | inaturalist is in fact open source of some kind. I never
             | realized, I'll have to look into this more. I appreciate
             | you getting me to take a second look
             | https://github.com/inaturalist
             | 
             | This may be exactly what I need:
             | https://www.inaturalist.org/sites/network
        
           | xipho wrote:
           | If you want to manage your own data take a look at
           | TaxonWorks. Multi-entry and bifurcating key editors, images,
           | much more. It, and its companions are all open source, see
           | TaxonPages for example.
        
           | throwup238 wrote:
           | _> due to inevitable enshittification_
           | 
           | PlantNet is led by an alphabet soup consortium of French
           | research institutes like IRD, CIRAD, INRIA, and INRA so I
           | don't think enshitification is inevitable - though I don't
           | know why it's not open source. It's funded by grants and
           | donations with no incentive to enshitify it for more revenue.
        
         | r2oaa2f83jfpa3 wrote:
         | Not counts, but you can upload the images to
         | https://inaturalist.org. Most of the recent conservation
         | research papers use iNaturalist data.
        
       | smallerfish wrote:
       | BioClip (referenced in their writeup) is good to know about.
       | 
       | I run a small scale wildlife monitoring program with usually 3
       | cameras (depending on how many are being repaired for battery
       | terminal corrosion). Each month I skim through and categorize
       | ~200 videos that we've captured. Doesn't take too long, but it
       | would be nice to automate at some point.
        
         | Modified3019 wrote:
         | Do you use any kind of protectant, like dielectric grease or
         | Deoxit? I find applying to both the equipment and battery
         | contacts saves a lot of headaches on my work phone, ATV,
         | trailer lights connectors and anything else powered I use in
         | the field.
        
           | smallerfish wrote:
           | No, but great idea. Once I get the current batch back from
           | the repair shop I'll start doing that.
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | We use some dielectric grease when we have to make some
           | outdoor connections and it works great here in the jungle,
           | and it also has the bonus of keeping the leaf cutter ants
           | from slicing up your electronics too!
        
         | Choco31415 wrote:
         | BioCLIP won the CVPR best student paper award:
         | https://cvpr.thecvf.com/Conferences/2024/News/Awards
         | 
         | Having talked with Sam, they're working on BioCLIPv2. So expect
         | even better results sometime soon.
        
       | hikinghack wrote:
       | Hi! I'm andy! I'm the guy who spent the past year making the
       | Mothbox! I don't know how this got on ycombinator, but cool! We
       | are working here together Let me know if you have any questions!
       | 
       | Some quick basics: It's an entirely open source system made from
       | off-the-shelf parts made so you can build one yourself! We built
       | it to help a set of community reforestation initiatives here in
       | Panama! (
       | 
       | Existing automated insect monitors we checked out wouldn't work
       | for us because: 1) They were REALLY BIG (like huge heavy suitcase
       | size+) 2) They were really EXPENSIVE (like 7000-15000$ !) 3)
       | There wasn't any info to build robust ones that could withstand
       | months in the rainforest!
       | 
       | So we build one ourselves! We started with absolutely no budget,
       | and the costs that people have noticed ($375) are really the
       | cheapest you can find these parts (Pi5 + big battery + 64MP
       | camera + really bright lights), and for instance are on par with
       | the $200 just for the 16mp logitech webcam employed in many
       | existing insect monitors!
       | 
       | We got about 20 of these out in the wild here in Panama already,
       | and are literally building more in the jungle as I'm typing this!
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | Hey Andy, this looks awesome. Nice work!
         | 
         | I think I'd like to get one to track insect diversity and
         | populations in areas where I work on riparian restoration
         | projects. My hope is that when projects are completed, in the
         | following years it'll be evident in the insect data the Mothbox
         | collects. Do you think that's a valid use case? Maybe I'd need
         | more than one to get enough data?
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | Totally! We are using it for farmland and riparian
           | restoration projects here in Panama. Everything is still very
           | nascent, so we don't really have a good idea what amount of
           | mothboxes would constitute "enough data," but the interesting
           | thing about insects vs like mammal camera traps is that like
           | even if two mothboxes are just 200 m apart, you can really
           | see a lot of insect variation!
        
             | steve_adams_86 wrote:
             | This is really interesting. That means I can collect data
             | in places we've worked as well as places we haven't, which
             | should help with understanding what's improving and what's
             | not. Hopefully the restoration sites will show improvements
             | in some way or another over time. I'm excited to test this
             | out. Thank you!
        
         | bookofjoe wrote:
         | Here is how you got on ycombinator:
         | 
         | 1. I happened on your website in Clive Thompson's newsletter,
         | among the websites in his final "sudden death" round:
         | 
         | https://buttondown.com/clivethompson/archive/linkfest-25-the...
         | 
         | 2. I thought HN peeps would find it of interest so I submitted
         | it
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | Awesome! Thanks for sharing it around!!
        
           | chrisweekly wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing -- and even more, for the Clive Thompson
           | link. :)
        
         | mason_mpls wrote:
         | thank you for your service
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | Thanks! Always happy to serve the commons of science!
        
         | sinuhe69 wrote:
         | I skimmed through the user manual and find the design is really
         | cool. It is well thought for the field use and obviously the
         | optimized result of many iterations. Although I'm no
         | naturalist, I find inspiration in your design. Kudos to the
         | good work!
        
           | hikinghack wrote:
           | Really appreciate the kind words!
        
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