[HN Gopher] Apple introduces iPad mini built for Apple Intelligence
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       Apple introduces iPad mini built for Apple Intelligence
        
       Author : diwank
       Score  : 136 points
       Date   : 2024-10-15 14:35 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | 234120987654 wrote:
       | A17 Pro huh, that's a first for putting a pro chip in a non pro
       | iPad, isn't it? I guess it's, as they advertise, to handle Apple
       | Intelligence although I don't understand why they are doubling
       | down on this _now_ while nothing from the newly announced AI
       | stuff is available as of today...
        
         | mcintyre1994 wrote:
         | I'm guessing the delays to Apple Intelligence came late in the
         | process and it was supposed to release with the new iPhones?
         | And then they just left hardware plans as-is when the software
         | got delayed.
        
           | bobbylarrybobby wrote:
           | I'm guessing they were aiming for iOS 18 but caved to what
           | they perceived was the popular demand at the time
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | It makes sense, the iPad Pros graduated to using full blown M
         | series chips so the A Pro chips they used to use can filter
         | down the stack.
         | 
         | edit: oops I mixed up A Pro and A X
        
           | JonathonW wrote:
           | The A17 Pro (originally in the iPhone 15 Pro; now also in the
           | iPad Mini) and A18 Pro (currently only in the iPhone 16 Pro)
           | are the only chips Apple has produced with a "Pro" suffix.
           | 
           | Apple used to use the X suffix for bigger versions of their
           | phone processors that went into iPads (starting with the
           | A5X); that went away when the M-series was introduced.
           | 
           | And the "Pro" suffix itself doesn't seem to denote anything
           | in particular-- there was never a non-Pro A17, and the "A17
           | Pro" going into the iPad Mini is itself a cut-down version of
           | the chip that went into the iPhone 15 Pro (it has one GPU
           | core disabled).
        
       | jerojero wrote:
       | I wish they had improved the screen a little bit as well.
       | 
       | It makes sense to update the model with apple intelligence but
       | that might not be enough for a lot of people to upgrade.
       | 
       | Perhaps we're looking at a device that simply will be out of
       | lineup soon (next few years).
       | 
       | I do like this form factor a lot though, well, eventually we'll
       | get foldable phones to become mainstream I hope.
        
         | lovethevoid wrote:
         | The alleged roadmap leak indicates they're aiming for 2026/2027
         | foldable screens (no word on whether it's horizontal or
         | vertical) so if all goes according to plan, you would be right
         | that this is the last update for the "iPad mini" device.
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | There was some chatter on Macrumors that they flipped the
         | orientation of the controller board so that the Jelly scrolling
         | will be gone when used in portrait mode. That was the #1
         | display complaint on the outgoing model, so if its true then
         | I'd count that as a win on improving the screen.
        
           | seunosewa wrote:
           | Wouldn't that cause jelly scrolling in landscape mode?
        
         | bananapub wrote:
         | > It makes sense to update the model with apple intelligence
         | but that might not be enough for a lot of people to upgrade.
         | 
         | that's fine? it's a very mature segment - medium-price small
         | screen tablet. it hasn't even really been updated since 2021,
         | and that was basically new case+usb-c.
        
           | volemo wrote:
           | I thought the case and USB-C were in iPad mini already?
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | Mature segment? Is there any other tablet with a square
           | aspect ratio that is smaller than 10"? Two years ago I was on
           | the market, I only remember Microsoft's Surfaces, which are
           | all 10", no other square tablets.
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | The iPads are basically appliances. They release a new model
           | of fridge every year but I've never once considered
           | "Upgrading" my existing one.
           | 
           | My 2014 ipad air 2 is only just starting to feel old.
        
         | tiffanyh wrote:
         | > I wish they had improved the screen a little bit as well.
         | 
         | What do you mean, the iPad mini has a higher ppi (326) vs iPad
         | Air (264).
         | 
         | I think the issue is that, iPad OS is scaling the display to a
         | weird resolution.
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/specs/
         | 
         | https://www.apple.com/ipad-air/specs/
        
           | fckgw wrote:
           | Probably a 120hz screen like the Pro has
        
             | michpoch wrote:
             | Then it'd also get the IPad Pro price?
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | 120hz panels are dirt cheap at this point, look beyond
               | the Apple ecosystem and they're everywhere at nearly
               | every price point. Even barebones office monitors meant
               | for doing spreadsheets are often ~100hz now, there's no
               | reason to make them 60hz when faster panels are just as
               | cheap.
        
               | heraldgeezer wrote:
               | >120hz panels are dirt cheap at this point
               | 
               | So is storage and RAM but every OEM has their added
               | vendor tax and so does Apple.
               | 
               | 2TB Samsung pro nvme SSD is 170$, how much is 2TB Apple
               | storage...
               | 
               | Same with screens.
        
       | tommica wrote:
       | Looks really nice, wish could afford it, but Apple products are
       | so expensive... Commodity products for premium price
        
         | skadamat wrote:
         | I usually like to buy these 1-2 years old off Craigslist /
         | Marketplace and that's been a sweet spot for price and quality.
         | 
         | Apple has always been about premium price and quality but I
         | agree that it's not for everyone and their needs.
        
         | mezeek wrote:
         | It's ok, lotsa people have the money for it.
        
         | auc wrote:
         | Apple products are not commodity, because there is very little
         | fungibility due to network effects.
         | 
         | Maybe their hardware is commodity (arguable), but the product +
         | integrations are not.
        
         | meroes wrote:
         | Many of these devices aren't actually fungible commodities
         | though.I tried to buy a phone in the $200 range and Android
         | phones were so much worse than used iPhones. I they would drop
         | calls and freeze on the dial pad during long calls where I was
         | on hold. Tried two different models and had the same issues. I
         | could have tried a used $200 Android but I was not wanting to
         | try for a third Android. All I wanted/needed was to make
         | important calls.
         | 
         | So I guess I don't see them as commodities which implies
         | fungibility.
        
           | II2II wrote:
           | I realize that there are bad Androids out there and the
           | abundance of choice makes it difficult to sift through the
           | good and the bad, but there are good Android phones out there
           | in the $200-$300 USD range. My current phone is a bit over
           | three years old and it is still very usable.
        
             | dsissitka wrote:
             | Especially with companies like Motorola. The 2022 Edge cost
             | $400 on release. A bit over a year later it was on sale for
             | $140.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | > All I wanted/needed was to make important calls.
           | 
           | Can I recommend you a 40EUR _phone_? They 've been making
           | models that can do calls for a while now and they needn't
           | cost as much as an Apple-branded device to do just that
           | 
           | > they would drop calls and freeze on the dial pad during
           | long calls
           | 
           | Never heard that happen to anyone with any phone model. If
           | you've ruled out some software-specific issue like a call
           | recorder you've installed or so, that sounds borderline
           | implausible. Then again, given the number of issues I
           | experience with software (of any kind)...
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | What's with the sour grapes? I can't afford a Pagani. Doesn't
         | mean I can't appreciate the engineering.
        
           | tommica wrote:
           | Not sure why you're calling me "sour grapes"? I only lamented
           | the fact that I could not afford the thing
        
             | macintux wrote:
             | "Commodity products for premium price" definitely sounds
             | like sour grapes.
             | 
             | If the products are actually commodity, just buy something
             | else.
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Its commodity you can buy from dozens of other vendors for much
         | cheaper price.
        
           | skywhopper wrote:
           | Uh, where can I buy a cheaper iPad?
        
             | lucb1e wrote:
             | And while we're at it, can someone finally tell me where
             | people find cheap ferraris? I really want a car but they're
             | just too expensive!
        
           | dmitrygr wrote:
           | Then buy it there instead of complaining?
        
         | skywhopper wrote:
         | They are hardly commodities. The build quality and lifetime of
         | iPads is incredible compared to any other tablet I've ever used
         | (typing this on a six year old iPad Pro that's still going
         | strong).
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | I recently traded in my 5-year-old iPad Pro because it was
           | badly banged up, and they still offered me ~$400 in trade-in
           | value. Great iPads.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | True, but they last long enough that you can get them second
         | hand, whereas used products from other vendors tend to be junk
         | not worth spending money on even at a cheaper price point.
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | Also when buying second hand, you pay for that premium brand
        
         | Findecanor wrote:
         | There is a definite lack of worthy competitors to the iPad Mini
         | in the market. Most other tablets are 10" or larger. The only
         | other contemporary tablets I've found in that size have had
         | very low-end specs in comparison.
        
           | tommica wrote:
           | True - long time ago I had the "new ipad", and it was really,
           | really nice - lasted me for years, until I could no longer
           | update it.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | The iPad lineup starts at $350, and that's brand new, look used
         | or refurbished and it becomes even cheaper. If that's too much
         | for you, you'll be pressed to afford any computer.
        
       | bonaldi wrote:
       | The mini is the absolute sweet spot for me - enough portability
       | that I don't mind the many restrictions of iPad OS. But the
       | A-line chips and low-quality screen are problems, and not being
       | able to properly dock it at a monitor is a real hinderance. None
       | of those are addressed here, unfortunately.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Considering the bestselling laptops at Walmart for $400-500
         | still sometimes have Twisted Nematic displays, I think the
         | screen is fine.
         | 
         | I also don't get the complaint about the A-series chip. What
         | does an M1 unlock in iPadOS that the A17 doesn't?
        
           | skydhash wrote:
           | I think stage manager? And the A1 can get hot sometimes (PDFs
           | and Procreate).
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | I can't find any mention of Stage Manager being supported
             | on this device - so either it doesn't, or the help pages
             | haven't been updated yet.
             | 
             | I will say though the criticism of the A-series getting hot
             | doesn't make sense. If the A-series gets hot, the M-series
             | is going to be boiling in that tiny chassis.
        
               | 0x457 wrote:
               | > I will say though the criticism of the A-series getting
               | hot doesn't make sense. If the A-series gets hot, the
               | M-series is going to be boiling in that tiny chassis.
               | 
               | Depends on a particular A and M chip, tho.
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | The screen has the same pixel density as the iPhones'. Which
           | is better than any other iPad model's.
        
           | enragedcacti wrote:
           | If were picking random stuff to compare it against, for $250
           | Motorola will sell you a phone with a 6.7", 395ppi, 120hz
           | OLED screen. It also comes with a stylus and has 256GB
           | storage standard.
           | 
           | Obviously these aren't directly comparable products but
           | neither are iPads and budget laptops, and Apple asks $750 for
           | a model with equivalent storage and a cellular modem. For a
           | lot of people the screen probably is perfectly adequate but I
           | can also see why some potential buyers would be pretty
           | disappointed given the price point, especially since unlike
           | the air apple doesn't even offer an upgrade path at this
           | size.
        
         | labcomputer wrote:
         | > and not being able to properly dock it at a monitor is a real
         | hinderance
         | 
         | Can you expand on that? It seems to support DisplayPort over
         | USB-C, and there are a number of 1st and 3rd party adapters
         | that have DP out, power in, and a USB2.0 plug for your other
         | devices. What does "properly" docking it look like?
        
           | bonaldi wrote:
           | The A-series chips only support screen mirroring; with the
           | M-class iPads you can have stage manager and multiple windows
           | across two displays; and the main display runs at native
           | resolution. It's a far better (though still flawed)
           | experience.
        
           | jchulce wrote:
           | There are a bunch of UX differences between an iPad and a
           | laptop while connected to a docking station that make using
           | an iPad in that manner not quite satisfactory. For example,
           | the iPad's screen always has to be on - while you can choose
           | to either mirror or extend your desktop environment, you
           | can't use only the external monitors and shut your case like
           | you can with a laptop.
        
         | whiteboardr wrote:
         | Was patiently waiting for the mini getting an update - i don't
         | care as much for the screen, CPU etc. but not moving the front
         | facing camera to the side, hence landscape friendly position is
         | beyond me.
        
           | rgreekguy wrote:
           | The whole chassis is weak, old... One camera still? Lame...
           | The thermals are mediocre, at best. And the iPhone 15 Pro I
           | just got makes me look forward to the winter. I expect
           | similar experiences with this. When you write/draw _on_ it,
           | it does get hot. Same battery life is not bad, but it could
           | use some more when you use the Pencil. Touch ID is another
           | very _very_ weird thing to keep. I wonder what sort of market
           | buys that and they don 't want to upgrade anything... It
           | feels so weird...
           | 
           | If you check Apple's comparison, at least on that overview,
           | it seems they changed only the processor, networking, that
           | HDR thingy on the camera, and... that's all. Everything else
           | is the same.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | > One camera still? Lame...
             | 
             | It's a tablet, not a phone. No number of cameras is going
             | to make it into a good device for taking photos.
        
         | smileybarry wrote:
         | Speaking of screens, I wonder if they fixed the jelly scroll.
         | It doesn't bother me _that_ much on my mini, but it would be
         | ridiculous to keep that flaw as-is in the newer gen.
        
           | NotYourLawyer wrote:
           | The what?
        
             | loopdoend wrote:
             | They are referring to the screen lagging/tearing while
             | scrolling
        
             | formerly_proven wrote:
             | I'm guessing Apple is using an IPS panel meant for
             | landscape orientation (i.e. the image scans from the
             | top/bottom) in a device mostly used in portrait
             | orientation. This causes rolling shutter distortion when
             | scrolling contents.
        
             | accrual wrote:
             | It's basically screen tearing, apparently because the top
             | and bottom of the display (or left and right in other
             | orientations) refresh at different rates. iFixit suggests
             | its a controller issue.
             | 
             | > Update, 9/28/2021: In response to our inquiry, Apple has
             | told us that the "jelly scroll" issue on the 6th-generation
             | iPad mini is normal behavior for LCD screens.
             | 
             | > Update, 9/30/2021: An iFixit teardown suggests that the
             | iPad mini's more noticeable scrolling issue is a byproduct
             | of how the display controller is mounted.
             | 
             | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/09/2021-ipad-mini-
             | suffe...
             | 
             | FWIW, my 5th Gen Mini doesn't have this issue.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | The real fix would be for them to stop being so stingy with
           | 120hz panels, as long as they keep using 60hz ones they're
           | going to be prone to jelly scrolling in one orientation or
           | the other. With 60hz the best you can hope for is that the
           | orientation you use the most often is the good one this time.
        
         | dartos wrote:
         | > enough portability that I don't mind the many restrictions of
         | iPad OS.
         | 
         | Would it be a sweeter spot without those restrictions?
         | 
         | I hate that I can't code on my iPad Pro.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | Get a-Shell, iSH, etc.
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | If you meant "not having Stage Manager", I'm genuinely
         | surprised the A18 Pro wasn't considered powerful enough to run
         | it, given that it outperforms the M1 that was. The only thing I
         | could think of is that Apple thinks the smaller screen is too
         | small for Stage Manager.
         | 
         | I still think they should support it anyway, even if only for
         | three apps at a time on the primary display. iPadOS is weirdly
         | bifurcated into two different window management strategies
         | (Split View vs. Stage Manager) based on what device you bought,
         | which is confusing. They should be expanding Stage Manager to
         | as many devices as possible.
        
       | ivanjermakov wrote:
       | It's sad that "ultraportable iPad" marketing works, but
       | "ultraportable iPhone" does not make sense for most people.
       | 
       | iPhone 13 mini was the last flagship smartphone with such
       | dimensions.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | How long do we have on the 13 mini before it becomes so slow I
         | have to get a new phone? I don't know what I'll do at that
         | point. On the 12 mini now and can never go to a big phone.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | Probably a couple of more years provided you can keep
           | replacing your battery. I'm on a 13 Pro Max which has the
           | same SoC as a 13 Mini and while I might want a battery
           | replacement within the next year, the phone itself has no
           | performance issues. I think the iPhone 12 model line is
           | essentially in the same boat, just a little bit older and
           | with worse batteries.
        
             | thejsa wrote:
             | The battery was the main reason I moved from my 12 mini to
             | a 15 (save for USB-C) -- just wasn't holding up, even after
             | a replacement. I still hold out for a 17 mini, though.
        
           | zie wrote:
           | A few years still. The XR is still supported with iOS 18.
        
         | robin_reala wrote:
         | Nothing wrong with continuing to use the iPhone 13 Mini today:
         | Apple CPU has been so far ahead of the competition that apart
         | from on-device generative AI there's nothing that hugely pushes
         | it. For data, search for "single-core" and "multi-core" in
         | https://infrequently.org/2024/01/performance-inequality-gap-...
        
         | roughly wrote:
         | The typical iPhone Mini product cycle:
         | 
         | Make iPhone Mini -> Mini only accounts for 10% of sales ->
         | Cancel iPhone Mini -> Notice that 10% of iPhone customers
         | haven't updated for 3 or 4 cycles -> Make iPhone Mini -> Suffer
         | crippling corporate amnesia -> <...>
         | 
         | I'm expecting the brain worms to reach step 4 of the corporate
         | consciousness cycle around the next generation or so.
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | One can hope.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | I wonder if that was their attempt to make the iPhone SE have
           | a legitimate place with the other iPhones? Not sure, but it
           | is interesting that no matter what, they always sell the SE.
        
           | pazimzadeh wrote:
           | only the 12 and 13 had mini sizes, so not really. unless you
           | are counting the SE1 as mini
        
       | sroussey wrote:
       | A17 Pro and WiFi 6E like the iPhone 15 Pro, not like the iPhone
       | 16 series.
        
       | jessekv wrote:
       | The lineup sizes are filling in, a bit like A-series paper.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_size
        
       | throwaway48476 wrote:
       | It is interesting that one of their examples is a "community
       | repair fair", they want to market a sheen of social
       | responsibility without actually taking part themselves.
        
         | ranunez64 wrote:
         | It is interesting that one of their examples is a "Mahjong
         | Club", they want to market a sheen of board game enthusiasm
         | without actually taking part themselves.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Lowkey wish their laptops would be as they used to be. Being
         | able to swap RAM or hard drives is so basic but so useful.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | Drives in particular. Let them solder the memory if they
           | absolutely have to, but exposing even an empty NVMe slot
           | should be standard for laptops. Unfortunately, Apple makes a
           | pretty penny off the storage surcharge so I wouldn't really
           | anticipate that anytime soon.
        
             | loopdoend wrote:
             | I will accept the trade off for the performance boost tbh.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | What performance boost? As in, same software running for
               | comparison on the hardware of interest, one soldered and
               | the other not. I never heard that soldering your SSD on
               | makes it faster...
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | It doesn't, Apples SSD performance is fine but
               | unremarkable. An M3 Max MBP with 1TB will do ~6GB/sec
               | read and ~5GB/sec write, which isn't even at the limit of
               | socketed PCIe4 NVMe drives, nevermind the newer PCIe5
               | drives which can do up to ~14GB/sec read and ~12GB/sec
               | write.
               | 
               | Soldering the RAM has legitimate performance benefits,
               | but soldering the SSD is just to save space and upsell
               | overpriced upgrades.
        
             | franciscop wrote:
             | They no longer even have a "memory" chip anymore, it's all
             | part of the same SOC AFAIK, so they cannot "solder" it.
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | Even when Apple laptops had removable solid state storage,
             | it used a non-standard connector[1]. Very consumer and
             | repair hostile. While OWC still made thirds party drives
             | for these[2], few (no?) other companies did.
             | 
             | [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-
             | ultimate-gu...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2
        
           | adolph wrote:
           | Hot air rework is more accessible than ever. This video is
           | kinda over-the-top breathless, but removing components and
           | reballing new ones isn't rocket science.
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/apEKAY11NQs?t=328
        
             | wasabinator wrote:
             | It is and will always be rocket science to most people, and
             | orders of magnitude more difficult than swapping a drive or
             | ram sticks.
        
           | aucisson_masque wrote:
           | I have a mac, absolutely love it, hate windows and yet my
           | next laptop will be windows because of that.
           | 
           | You don't realize how much it matters until it does, and then
           | it changes everything. Always having to carry an external
           | drive just because my email takes 150gb of the 256gb MacBook
           | storage is even more annoying than windows puting candy crush
           | saga on the start menu.
        
             | bschwindHN wrote:
             | > just because my email takes 150gb
             | 
             | You have a very different email life than me. Is that like,
             | all emails received in your life, or just huge attachments?
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | It's a bit of filler text in a demo. You might be reading a
         | little too much into it.
        
       | kokada wrote:
       | Would be nice if Apple also introduced a new base iPad with at
       | least support for a decent Apple Pencil. I want to buy my wife an
       | iPad, but she wants to draw and the Apple Pencil USB-C doesn't
       | support presure levels, so it is either a base iPad with an old
       | Apple Pencil 1st Gen (that still is lightining) or paying extra
       | for the iPad Air and Apple Pencil 2nd Gen/Pro. The fact that
       | Apple Pencil USB-C doesn't support presure levels at ALL is
       | infuriating too.
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | If she's looking to sketch or just doesn't mind not having
         | color, I can't recommend the Kindle Scribe enough. I bought it
         | for reading but it's become my combination work
         | notes/presentation board/drawing tablet, and I absolutely love
         | it. The premium pencil honestly smokes the Apple pencil and it
         | feels so nice to use. I just wish it did color too.
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | The Air is a significantly better drawing display.
        
           | kokada wrote:
           | She basically wants to draw notes and do some doodling, so it
           | is not like it would make much difference and the price delta
           | is huge between the base iPad and the iPad Air.
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | The older generations are still available and cheaper, they
             | just don't support the newest Pencil Pro.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | The Wikipedia article for the Apple Pencil has a
               | compatiblity matrix that is very helpful in this regard,
               | since it's so damn confusing.
               | 
               | I think if I was in the market for a drawing device on a
               | budget I'd go with an iPad Air that supports the Apple
               | Pencil 2nd generation. Something like the iPad Air 5th or
               | 4th would do well.
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | It depends on her storage needs. If she's making files
             | she'll probably not want the 64GB version. So you'd be
             | looking at the 256GB base for $500 or the 128GB 11" Air for
             | $600. That's not that big a jump for the added utility.
             | 
             | I agree with the other poster; maybe look at refurb and a
             | 2nd gen pencil.
             | 
             | Or just don't get one. But it sounds like this is on the
             | short list to buy for you two.
        
               | kokada wrote:
               | She lived with an iPhone 64GB up until last week and I
               | expect that her tablet storage needs to be even smaller
               | (e.g.: no photos). So yes, 64GB is fine.
               | 
               | > Or just don't get one.
               | 
               | This is actually what I am going to do: wait until there
               | is a better base iPad version. Unless I can get an older
               | iPad Pro for a cheap price, but it is unlikely here in
               | EU.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | I would suggest the iPad Air 5th or 4th generation. They
               | should be pretty close in price to a base iPad, probably
               | less for the 4th generation.
        
       | rvnx wrote:
       | Is there somewhere where this Apple Intelligence can be used ?
        
         | zie wrote:
         | Some of it is available in the beta's, but no, it's not
         | released to stable yet.
        
           | dumbo-octopus wrote:
           | Which boggles the mind... did nobody tell the software team
           | that a release was coming?
        
             | fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
             | Apple doesn't have a reputation for letting engineers
             | slack. I have to guess they are working like dogs to meet
             | some standard before they are willing to release.
        
             | zie wrote:
             | It clearly wasn't ready. My guess: the powers that be
             | decided they had to make a public showing of being an AI
             | company, hence the giant marketing push ahead of release.
             | 
             | It's unknown how useful any of this will be in day to day
             | use-cases.
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | I don't think Apple can simply delay an iPhone. There's
             | entire industries relying on there being a new iPhone out
             | every September.
        
           | nicbou wrote:
           | And it's not coming to the European Union.
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | You can get it in the public betas, but it's very underwhelming
         | and not useful. I'm surprised they're talking this up so much
         | to be honest.
        
       | marmaduke wrote:
       | lol as if teachers have money to buy this to make their lessons
       | plans.
        
         | All4All wrote:
         | You might be surprised as to how many are willing to make the
         | splurge. Anecdotal, but I'm married to a high school teacher.
         | She and several of her coworkers have been willing to eat the
         | cost personally just to avoid using dated district-provided
         | assets, which are often clucky and make the job worse.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | This is the salary schedule for teacher in the district my kids
         | were in:
         | 
         | https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BN_Q51d_wUFMs7ajdwI07ESmnmS...
         | 
         | Teachers get $55k-$72k depending on their qualifications. Not
         | great, but not poverty levels either. If they want an iPad,
         | they can probably get one.
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | I love iPad minis, but a keyboard folio for this size would be
       | great. I've used this form factor with the iPad Air for writing,
       | and it's perfect for carrying in a small bag. I know this is an
       | expensive toy, though.
       | 
       | [*] For reference, the iPad Air with the Magic Keyboard is about
       | as heavy as a 13" MacBook Air.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I bought and returned a 13" iPad Pro M4 because I couldn't get
         | a Smart Keyboard Folio for it. Only the Magic Keyboard is
         | available. I'm still using my 2018 iPad Pro.
        
       | zer0zzz wrote:
       | All I want to know is can it do windowed multi tasking with stage
       | manager?
        
       | protoman3000 wrote:
       | The size of the mini is really the best, but the external monitor
       | support is very disappointing. Do jailbreaks etc. allow for
       | native monitor resolutions or are we limited to the iPads screen
       | resolution by hardware?
        
       | preaching5271 wrote:
       | So it's useless in Europe
        
         | tomovo wrote:
         | Or: more free space and lower CPU usage in the EU.
        
       | poszlem wrote:
       | I still remember the Steve Jobs era when people would praise
       | Apple for having a simple lineup of devices, in contrast to
       | Android, which had some crazy amount of variants of every device.
       | How times have changed.
        
         | wslh wrote:
         | Regarding variants, it continue to be more complex to buy a
         | Microsoft Windows notebook.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | What other large brand has a simpler lineup? Samsung released
         | 22 phones just in 2024 with memorable names like C55 and M05.
         | 
         | Although I wouldn't mind if they got rid of one or two iPhone
         | variants, or at least gave them more meaningful names. I have
         | no idea what the difference between Plus, Pro and Max is. I
         | only know that Pro doesn't mean pro, and that doesn't make it
         | any easier.
         | 
         | Edit: also Steve Jobs was still alive when you could choose
         | between four different iPod variants.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | It's mainly just the iPad lineup that's a mess, but it's
         | optimized for there always being an iPad available for
         | increasing budgets in $100 jumps, give or take. It's confusing
         | to try and keep track of them all, but that's not really the
         | point. What they have is anyone can walk into a store and say
         | "give me an iPad, I'll pay $600" and they'll get a good device.
        
         | scarface_74 wrote:
         | When Jobs did that Apple was close to bankruptcy. When the
         | first iPhone was introduced in 2007, was less than $25 billion.
         | It's now $385 billion.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | Nice choice, always been my favorite size.
       | 
       | Surprised though that they don't have an option with cellular so
       | you can have always-on data access (i.e., with a data-only plan).
       | 
       | Updated: my bad, it does come with cellular -- it's just not
       | advertised on the main product page
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | I'm seeing it on the Ireland store, for 170 eur.
        
           | dce wrote:
           | Same in US, $150.
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Most carriers offer iPads as far back as I remember? You have
         | to get it through their stores though.
        
         | throwaway48476 wrote:
         | Do you still need to buy the cellular version to get a GPS
         | chip?
        
       | hnburnsy wrote:
       | Ugh, that bezel.
       | 
       | Will full coverage screens with a software driven, virtual bezel
       | every be a thing?
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Ugh, my batteries need recharging.
         | 
         | Will nuclear powered phones with built-in fusion reactors that
         | never need recharging ever be a thing?
        
           | ClassyJacket wrote:
           | An edge to edge screen is entirely technically feasible tho.
           | The iPhone has it.
        
         | alpaca128 wrote:
         | I don't get why some people get so worked up about bezels. I
         | like being able to hold my devices without accidental inputs,
         | and to me they look better anyway.
         | 
         | I wouldn't mind 3cm wide bezels and accordingly larger
         | batteries.
        
           | hnburnsy wrote:
           | Virtual bezels and let the user choosing.
        
             | cut3 wrote:
             | Dynamically get larger as battery life decreases
        
             | alpaca128 wrote:
             | And pay for a screen size I won't use? No, thanks.
        
               | hnburnsy wrote:
               | Could be dynamic, example, watching a movie, no bezels.
               | Remove the bezels from the top and/or bottom, that
               | changes on the device orientation. Placed in a stand
               | remove the bezels, add them back when picked up.
        
               | lucb1e wrote:
               | That sounds awesome actually. Makes me wonder how hard it
               | would be on a rooted phone to just have it tell the
               | software the screen is a few pixels smaller so you can
               | touch chose sides safely, and remove the restriction
               | again when you're in movie mode
               | 
               | Never heard of anyone making that but this would honestly
               | sound like the first innovation in several years, not
               | incremental like "GPS now finds a solution 2 seconds
               | faster" and "the mobile data now uses 7% less energy" but
               | something that is now possible that wasn't a feature
               | before
        
         | fckgw wrote:
         | iPads need to have some sort of bezel, else how are you going
         | to hold the thing? iPhones you can grip the sides, iPads not so
         | much.
        
           | michpoch wrote:
           | iPhone 16 pro max is almost there with the screen size, also
           | a two-hands device
        
           | lucb1e wrote:
           | This. Phones are already a real trade-off between usability
           | and screen size. I've reached (or perhaps slightly gone over)
           | the minimum amount of grabbing space I want on a phone and
           | mine isn't quite the sleekest model
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | I was just thinking the same thing. Why couldn't they give it a
         | tiny bezel, with a software option to put a virtual bezel if
         | you want to hold it in a way it matters.
         | 
         | They could even give it only the virtual bezel on the left and
         | right sides, in whichever orientation you're holding it, since
         | you don't really hold it on the top or bottom.
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | 120hz would've been nice... since they likely won't make pro
       | modal in this size.
        
         | volemo wrote:
         | I luckily don't care for higher refresh rate, but I'm
         | disappointed this model doesn't come with OLED.
        
       | All4All wrote:
       | Does anyone here have insight as to the differences between the
       | various versions of Apple's "Smart HDR" feature? Interesting to
       | see it took the leap from Smart HDR3 (previous model) to Smart
       | HDR 4 (new model), and yet the latest iPhones released last month
       | apparently use Smart HDR 5.
        
         | turnsout wrote:
         | The version is tied to the Image Signal Processor (ISP) of the
         | A-series chip. So the A17 has Smart HDR 4, while the A18 has
         | Smart HDR 5.
         | 
         | Smart HDR uses neural image segmentation for tone mapping and
         | other processing. In my opinion it goes way too far; trying to
         | grab a faintly blue sky and make it as blue as possible,
         | identifying a face and lightening any hint of a shadow, etc.
         | 
         | When people complain about iPhone photos looking over
         | processed, this is why.
        
           | formerly_proven wrote:
           | Smart HDR 5 but Auto WB is still stuck in kindergarten.
           | Priorities I guess.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | [dupe]
       | 
       | More discussion on official post:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41848298
        
         | dang wrote:
         | We'll merge those comments hither.
        
       | zer0zzz wrote:
       | Pretty sure theres no stage manager, hard pass. Sticking to my 6.
        
         | rgreekguy wrote:
         | Well, they call it stage manager, but in iOS 18 (too) it only
         | offers split screen and one window overlaid to the side. There
         | is an example in the page somewhere.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | We changed the URL from https://www.apple.com/ipad-mini/ but
       | readers may want to check out both.
        
         | urda wrote:
         | thanks dang
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | In many ways (no pun intended :-)) I would relate to having an
       | iPad mini and a much much dumber phone which was just text/chat
       | and voice. I have gotten there because I'm constantly in this
       | weird tension between wanting a bigger screen on my phone because
       | the app I'm using and wanting a smaller phone so that it is
       | easier to pocket and carry around. A friend of mine did the
       | folding screen phone thing and that has its advantages but I
       | really like a small phone (and ideally with a long battery life
       | so no 1000 nit screens on it). Definitely first world/21st
       | century problems :-). I do find engineering tradeoffs in product
       | design an interesting thing though.
        
         | osrec wrote:
         | What was the pun? Many/mini?
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Yes.
        
           | imjonse wrote:
           | You can safely put 'no pun intended' after actually having no
           | puns in the text. It can be disorienting but such is truth
           | sometimes.
        
             | johnmaguire wrote:
             | Pun intended?
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | typeof(x) y = (typeof(x))x; // no pun intended
        
         | zoeysmithe wrote:
         | For me its a very nice bedside ebook reader, reddit machine,
         | and video device. Its a perfect size for all those things,
         | perhaps a bit too small for video but good enough. It can fit
         | into a large coat pocket or a medium sized purse too.
         | 
         | I keep trying to get into my kindle but just can't for some
         | reason. E-ink is nice but being able to get a nice glowing
         | black background with white text is really nice and the page
         | changes are so much more fluid than e-ink.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Way more distractions on an iPad, though.
        
         | Syonyk wrote:
         | Most of the modern "dumbphones" (or "feature phones") would do
         | this just fine for you.
         | 
         | If you want one that can survive anything life will throw at
         | it, look at the Sonim devices - the XP3+ (flip) or XP5+
         | (candybar). They're Android Go, have exceptionally good (week
         | and a half, easily) battery life, hotspot just fine, and handle
         | actual use a lot better than the KaiOS toys out there. Maybe
         | 3.x is better, but KaiOS 2.x couldn't handle actual use for
         | more than a few weeks without starting to lag, requiring you to
         | remove texts from it so the interface wasn't glacial, and mine
         | eventually just stopped bothering to notify me about incoming
         | calls and texts, which is your one job... The Android Go stuff
         | seems to actually hold up to sustained moderate use.
        
           | bradfa wrote:
           | Do any of these Android Go phones have semi decent cameras?
           | That's a big holdup for many people.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | In the context of this thread, that's what the iPad mini is
             | for.
        
           | 0x38B wrote:
           | I used a KaiOS device for about 6 months. My expectations
           | weren't high, but texting and T9 input were a mess:
           | 
           | A) I had to manually enter captital I, apostrophe, and 'm'
           | every time I wanted to write "I'm".
           | 
           | B) New words (like brand and place names) displace common
           | words in the built-in wordlist - that is, T9 gets worse the
           | more you use it.
           | 
           | It was still an OK digital minimalist/detox device - the
           | GMaps web app with voice search was good enough.
           | 
           | The Android Go devices you mentioned sound far better - I'm
           | never touching KaiOS again.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | I was just pitching this yesterday to my friend. My Pixel 8 Pro
         | is a great phone, but in many situations I only want a phone
         | that can show me my messages and answer my phone calls, and
         | it's OK if its interface is my smartwatch and/or earbuds. I
         | want it to be able to take over my mobile number on-demand, and
         | relinquish it to my Pixel afterward.
        
         | mulderc wrote:
         | I am moving away from my phone to just using my Apple
         | Watch/AirPods then pulling out the mini when I need something
         | it can't cover.
        
           | herpdyderp wrote:
           | I wish I could do this but I have yet to find a good Apple
           | Watch replacement for owning and syncing music (rather than
           | streaming it)
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _I wish I could do this but I have yet to find a good Apple
             | Watch replacement for owning and syncing music (rather than
             | streaming it)_
             | 
             | Is it not possible to sync MP3s to Apple Watches anymore? I
             | have a really really old model, and I selected a few
             | playlists on my iPhone, and when they change, the songs
             | automatically sync to my Apple Watch.
        
           | rogerkirkness wrote:
           | Apparently Steve's posthumous roadmap focused on the idea
           | that personal computers get 'smaller and closer to you' as
           | time goes on. So the idea that an Apple Watch and AirPods
           | could be all you need when travelling, etc. follows that
           | premise.
        
         | jay_kyburz wrote:
         | I find it incredible that I can't make calls on my iPad. I
         | would just carry an iPad in my back pack if people could call
         | me on it.
        
         | doublepg23 wrote:
         | If I was approaching the dumb phone thing I'd try something
         | similar to this video - "dumbify" Home Screen app for iOS,
         | setting as gray scale, screen time limits, etc.
         | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jVb1lLniEw
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | Apple keeps a lot of owners addicted to their phones by making
         | Watch support exclusive to iPhone.
         | 
         | I'd love to go dumbphone and a Watch synced to an iPad at home,
         | but this is not an option.
        
           | thorncorona wrote:
           | What keeps them addicted to their watch?
           | 
           | I've never found a compelling use case where I'd willingly
           | buy another Apple watch.
        
             | eightysixfour wrote:
             | Keeps them addicted to their phone by not allowing them to
             | just go watch only.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | My best use case for the apple watch is I can keep it on
             | _everywhere_. If I constantly have to think of the thing
             | it'll get annoying enough I want to get rid of it.
        
           | gxs wrote:
           | You can probably get fairly close to do this by using an
           | apple watch with a sim card
           | 
           | I used to leave the house with just my watch and it was great
           | - I could read and send text messages, email, even take calls
           | on my watch and have everything synced up to my phone at
           | home. You can even download music to it and pair it to your
           | airpods.
           | 
           | The missing piece here is just having a dumb phone - somehow
           | I think that with some ingenuity you might be able to
           | something that serves 80% of your needs here or something
           | like that.
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | You want an Apple Watch imo, I often leave my phone behind now,
         | I'm contactable without distractions.
        
         | mouse_ wrote:
         | Back in the day when Android was KitKat and full of
         | possibilities, I ran a Nexus 7 2nd gen and a cheap phone from
         | my carrier. I'm not sure if it was enlightenment but it was
         | closer to it than today, where I carry around a smartphone
         | that's too big to use comfortably but still too small to use
         | frequently for media.
        
       | vjulian wrote:
       | I have an older (but not old) Mini, and I find it almost
       | unusable, as screen elements don't scale up. For example, Safari
       | browser buttons are stupidly small. Is that still an issue with
       | the Mini?
        
         | rgreekguy wrote:
         | I am not sure I understand what you mean by the scaling issues,
         | so, I guess, no? I have the 6th generation. The problem I have
         | (and I do not see getting improved, somehow) is that
         | applications do not care for it. Many times I have to turn it
         | to landscape for some more room to fit everything. Most
         | applications feel better on landscape, but then you lose
         | vertical space. Affinity Photo 1 is very guilty of that, having
         | buttons overlay each other on the left.
        
           | vjulian wrote:
           | Elements such as buttons and scroll bars are too small for my
           | big fingers and relative to the size of the device.
        
         | dialup_sounds wrote:
         | The mini display is 326 PPI vs 264 PPI for larger iPads, but
         | the same scale factor so things will always be smaller.
         | (iPhones with even higher PPI use a 3x scale.)
         | 
         | That said, you can embiggen things like Safari browser buttons
         | under Settings > Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Larger
         | Text.
        
           | glhaynes wrote:
           | I'd also suggest playing with the setting here if you just
           | want everything to be scaled up a bit: Settings > Display &
           | Brightness > Display Zoom > Larger Text.
        
           | vjulian wrote:
           | Thank you. Larger text does just that and in some cases makes
           | buttons even more difficult to use. My eyes are fine, and my
           | fingers are big...unfortunately rendering the Mini mainly
           | useless for me.
        
       | mlajtos wrote:
       | iPad mini 2024 with Pencil Pro and Math Notes is going to
       | revolutionize math education.
        
         | p00dles wrote:
         | What is math notes?
        
           | stephanerangaya wrote:
           | Math Notes calculator allows users to type or write out
           | mathematical expressions and see them solved in their own
           | handwriting
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/16/24194423/math-notes-
           | ipad-...
        
         | hggigg wrote:
         | Mathematician here. No it's really not. Having used it
         | extensively it craps out all the time, fails to parse things
         | properly, doesn't understand anything other than a very narrow
         | undefined subset of anything that needs to be done and
         | generally makes things harder.
         | 
         | It sure _looks_ like it would though.
         | 
         | Noteful and a competent calculator with CAS functionality on
         | the other hand might be a different outcome.
        
           | bbor wrote:
           | To be fair, "math education" usually refers to the millions
           | that learn arithmetic, algebra, and geometry every year, not
           | the (tens of?) thousands that take part graduate level
           | courses in "real" mathematics. Although I'm curious; do you
           | think it would handle basic calculus (aka as taught in Calc
           | survey courses up through multivariate)? In other words: does
           | it know how to evaluate integrals and derivatives? Because
           | I'd guess more people take those classes than all their
           | descendants combined.
           | 
           | Either way, and on a more fundamental note: I'm a little
           | dubious that "completing equations" is a net benefit for math
           | education. It really seems like a small nice-to-have-
           | available affordance tacked on to the real game changer: a
           | computer that can adaptively challenge a student and
           | competently answer clarifying questions without making it too
           | easy. Y'know, just AGI stuff lol
           | 
           | As we've all seen from ChatGPT's impact on English courses
           | already, this all will require a fundamental rethink of how
           | we teach children and adolescents. Homework is a bandaid over
           | capitalist failings, and it's beginning to peel...
        
             | hggigg wrote:
             | It has no idea about calculus at all. Not only that it's a
             | numeric not a symbolic calculator. So taking it even
             | further back to basics, if you do sqrt(12) it should really
             | crap out 2+sqrt(3) [as a surd] but it just dumps the
             | evaluation out. My PS10 Casio can handle that better.
             | 
             | As for education, you don't really need a calculator. We
             | don't really use them that much. Pen, paper, ears.
             | 
             | As for computers, programmed randomised questions with
             | deterministic answers and documented steps to solve the
             | problems are the right way. LLMs can't do that even if they
             | look like they can. _some_ universities actually have tools
             | which generate those. Those are truly enlightening as you
             | can see the reasoning properly.
        
         | rty32 wrote:
         | I don't know which bubble you are in, but $499 + $129 for
         | devices at MSRP is not going to revolutionize anything,
         | especially just for maths.
         | 
         | A $200 Chromebook can do 10x. Guess what, that's exactly why
         | schools buy Chromebooks.
        
         | insane_dreamer wrote:
         | > revolutionize math education
         | 
         | math education is not likely going to be "revolutionized" with
         | technology or that would have already happened
        
         | wasabinator wrote:
         | Ironic how one demonstrates a questionable grasp on maths if
         | they think an expensive iDevice will revolutionise maths
         | education for the masses.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | That's like saying giving students a better calculator
         | revolutionizes math education.
         | 
         | Even giving students full access to Mathematica (which I think
         | is worthwhile BTW) won't revolutionize it.
        
       | zitterbewegung wrote:
       | Bump up from 64 GB default to 128 GB is nice.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | It certainly was, like eight years ago when I got the bigger SD
         | card for my phone
         | 
         | At this point, the only word that can be applied to it is
         | "overdue" for anything who uses it beyond a thin client for
         | server-side storage or a streaming service
        
           | Gigachad wrote:
           | Uh, I'd be willing to bet that almost all ipad mini users use
           | cloud storage and streaming services. That's an extremely
           | common use case.
        
       | RIMR wrote:
       | All of this looks good, but if they want to retain trust with
       | artists, the last thing they should be doing is integrating
       | generative AI tools into their art programs.
       | 
       | Creatives are getting more and more frustrated with the AI tools
       | showing up in places like Windows or in Photoshop. For the first
       | time ever I am meeting career artists and designers who are
       | actively looking to add non-AI alternatives to their usual
       | toolchains because they feel betrayed by the addition of
       | generative AI.
       | 
       | Apple is asking to lose the trust of a major market segment by
       | charging forward with this stuff. You would think that the
       | backlash to their "Crush!" commercial would have been an eye-
       | opening moment for them about what Artists actually expect from
       | them...
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | From the company bringing you non-general purpose computing.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Why is the bezel so thick? A 1-2cm bezel around the entire "mini"
       | device seems a bit odd, given that the iPad Mini is a relatively
       | tiny device and phones these days come with a 1-2mm bezel (10x
       | less useless border).
       | 
       | Is it a cost saving measure or what might be the motivation?
       | 
       |  _Edit:_
       | 
       | Touch interference is a good idea. Still, from the picture, it
       | looks like the bezel could be half as thick and still work well.
       | Sorry to be such a stickler, I am genuinely curious if Apple is
       | chasing better margins, the best feasible UX, or something else.
       | 
       | Could it be that since this device is _only $650 USD_ , it isn't
       | expensive enough to warrant a premium display? (Like the iPhone
       | SE https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/)
       | 
       | If so, I wish there was a fancier "Pro" model with premium
       | components. IIRC, I paid $1000 for my first iPad, it was the
       | first super high-resolution one back in 2012. Perhaps there
       | aren't enough customers who are sensitive to wasted screen real
       | estate on an 8-inch device. I do constantly see toddlers pacified
       | by iPad Minis whenever I'm at Costco.
        
         | spython wrote:
         | I think it's so that the fingers holding the device don't
         | obstruct the view/ don't get counted as touch event.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | I'd be surprised if thumb rejection/palm rejection isn't
           | close to perfect by iPadOS 18.
        
             | Tempest1981 wrote:
             | Doesn't work well for me. Thumb gets too close to bottom,
             | and now scrolling becomes zooming. All the time.
        
             | browningstreet wrote:
             | I'm forever triggering the camera app, while locking the
             | device, on my iPhone 15 pro max. Every day, regularly.
        
         | caconym_ wrote:
         | somewhere to grab it without putting your fingers on the
         | screen?
        
         | arcanemachiner wrote:
         | > Why is the bezel so thick?
         | 
         | How else were they supposed to make room for the extra 4GB of
         | RAM required to support Apple Intelligence?
        
       | nicbou wrote:
       | Since Apple Intelligence won't be available in the EU, this is a
       | very underwhelming refresh.
       | 
       | I do love my iPad Mini to bits though. I use mine purely to read,
       | sketch and take notes. It does not receive any notifications. I
       | carry it almost everywhere I go.
        
       | jdswain wrote:
       | I got an 8" Android tablet instead of an iPad mini. What I
       | wanted, was to have something really compact that I could use
       | emacs on, mainly for org-roam, notes and writing in general, not
       | for writing code. It works well with termux, I don't think there
       | is a good way to have a local version of emacs on iOS.
       | 
       | The keyboard is the most important part really (although I did
       | want a good screen too). I'm on my second keyboard, they are only
       | about $30 each, which is better than iPad prices. The first one
       | wasn't so convenient to unfold quickly, the new one is working
       | really well.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Can I just get a a flagship iPhone sized like an iPhone SE
       | please?
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | [delayed]
        
       | hankman86 wrote:
       | One would think that they avoid the embarrassment of releasing
       | another device before their AI features are even available. But
       | no.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-15 23:00 UTC)