[HN Gopher] In Jordan, a 'stunning' discovery under Petra's anci...
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In Jordan, a 'stunning' discovery under Petra's ancient stone
Author : aguaviva
Score : 52 points
Date : 2024-10-14 18:46 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| aguaviva wrote:
| https://archive.md/p7rFr
| lubujackson wrote:
| Not to get all Indiana Jonesy about it, but 12 skeletons? From
| right around year 0? And they even show a picture of a weathered,
| ceramic cup?
|
| The article plays it straight, but I'm pretty sure this = Holy
| Grail confirmed.
| pushupentry1219 wrote:
| Year 0? I thought Petra was much much older than that.
|
| If year 0 is correct, these people were buried long after Petra
| was a bustling city then?
| kelnos wrote:
| Yeah that bit doesn't pass the smell test. Petra had been
| around for about 400 years by the time Jesus supposedly held
| his last supper.
|
| It seems much more likely that these 12 skeletons date back
| to the earlier days of the city.
|
| (Nitpick: there was no year 0; 1 BC goes right into AD 1. And
| Jesus' supposed death was around AD 33, not AD 1. Sometimes
| people think "AD" means "After his Death", but it's really
| "Anno Domini", or "the year of the/our Lord", when he was
| supposedly born.)
| ithkuil wrote:
| Alternatively we can parse AD as "Advancing Dates" and BC
| as "Backward Counting"
| Telemakhos wrote:
| The article says the skeletons date to 400-100 BC, so, no. Year
| 0 doesn't exist (1 BC is followed directly by AD 1), and the
| holy grail would have to date from AD 33 or so, because Jesus
| didn't die in the year of his birth.
| auadix wrote:
| Romans were like, what is this 0 you're talking about?
| gerdesj wrote:
| It's roughly 753 ab urbe condita, big nose!
| SoftTalker wrote:
| How accurately can skeletons be dated? Within 100 years? 10
| years? a year?
| kelnos wrote:
| They didn't actually date the skeletons, because they
| haven't excavated the site to physically examine them. The
| time range given by the article is just from the date the
| city was founded, until it was annexed by the Romans.
|
| It's a pretty safe assumption that they were buried there
| before the Roman annexation. My guess would be they were
| buried much closer to 400 BC than to AD 106.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _The article says the skeletons date to 400-100 BC...and
| the holy grail would have to date from AD 33 or so_
|
| It says "between 400 B.C. and A.D. 106". That encompasses all
| relevant dates.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _And they even show a picture of a weathered, ceramic cup_
|
| A cup that looks a _lot_ like the grail prop from the film.
| blackhaz wrote:
| It's freaking identical. Definitely Spielberg's games.
| skrebbel wrote:
| Your comment made my day!
| _joel wrote:
| They have chosen wisely.
| kelnos wrote:
| The cup they show isn't dated; it just says, "An ancient
| ceramic item discovered at the Treasury site". It's not even
| clear the cup was discovered during this particular expedition,
| or where it was found. It could be newer or older, and need not
| be related to the 12 skeletons.
|
| If the 12 apostles existed, it seems unlikely that they'd all
| be buried in the same place, in what may have been a
| "prestigious" tomb. Jesus isn't exactly described as a
| particularly popular figure in his time when it came to the
| authorities, and I would expect the 12 apostles would have died
| at different times, in different places, and wouldn't have been
| buried together.
|
| The time range is pushing it, too: between 400 BCE and 106 CE,
| though that's just the roughest of estimates based on when the
| city was founded and when it was annexed by the Romans, not
| based on any inspection of the remains. It feels more likely
| that this tomb was built, used, and sealed up well before Jesus
| and the disciples/apostles supposedly lived.
|
| Even if we assume the religious fairy tales are true, this
| doesn't pass the smell test: it's vanishingly unlikely that
| these are the remains of those men, or that any of this is
| related to the Holy Grail mythology.
| chasil wrote:
| They are not all buried in the same place. Mark is famously
| in Venice.
|
| https://www.ncregister.com/blog/where-are-the-12-apostles-
| no...
| stvswn wrote:
| Or, that _could_ be Alexander the Great.
| ccakes wrote:
| Peter is apparently underneath the Vatican. I'm not
| religious but I love history - they run a tour under the
| current city and it's really quite cool if you're into that
| sort of thing
|
| http://www.scavi.va/content/scavi/en/ufficio-scavi.html
| dylan604 wrote:
| Isn't it thought that Peter never went to Rome? Did they
| collect his remains and move them?
| KWxIUElW8Xt0tD9 wrote:
| Peter and Paul founded the church of Rome -- an
| inscription was found in the necropolis in proximity to a
| bone box during the excavations in Saint Peter's in 1950
| as I recall -- "Peter is here".
|
| It was always a point made from very early times that
| Rome was the church of Peter. As opposed to places like
| Alexandria for example whose status came from it being
| the see of a disciple of Peter.
|
| Something else I seem to recall is that one of the leg
| bones was different -- what would be expected from a
| Galilean fisherman always putting one leg on the side of
| a boat to haul in a fishing net.
|
| The final resting place of a number of Apostles is more
| or less known -- Ss Simon and Jude are in Saint Peter's,
| Saint Paul is buried in Saint Paul Outside the Walls in
| Rome, Saint James the Greater is at Compostella in Spain,
| Saint Bartholomew is in a church on an island in the
| Tiber in Rome, Saints Philip and James the Lesser have
| their own church in Rome I think.
| shakna wrote:
| Catholic tradition has always held that Peter moved to
| Rome, taught there as a teacher, and then died there.
|
| Other Christian circles, and a large swathe of
| historians, disagree on this front. However, it is one of
| the founding points of the Petrine Primacy, or the reason
| that Saint Peter is seen as the First Pope of the
| Catholic Church.
| adolph wrote:
| Doubting Thomas went to India:
|
| _Christianity is India 's third-largest religion with
| about 26 million adherents, making up 2.3 percent of the
| population as of the 2011 census.[1] The written records of
| St Thomas Christians mention that Christianity was
| introduced to the Indian subcontinent by Thomas the
| Apostle, who sailed to the Malabar region (present-day
| Kerala) in 52 AD._
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_India
| rolph wrote:
| the 12 apostles existed, not as a one-off, but a common
| practice. there is numerological signifigance to 12, that
| precedes christianity.
| derdi wrote:
| The cup they show isn't even a cup. It looks more like the
| top part of a broken bottle, photographed upside down. The
| narrow end looks too narrow for a cup's base, it would not be
| very stable.
| psunavy03 wrote:
| Tell me you missed the Indiana Jones joke without telling me
| you missed the Indiana Jones joke.
|
| The ending of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade used Petra
| as the outside shot for the ancient temple where the story
| ended.
| analog31 wrote:
| I think it was Martin Luther who said something to the effect
| that of the 12 apostles, 19 are buried in Germany.
| ggambetta wrote:
| That's the cup of a carpenter.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| In movie reality, this is definitely the Holy Grail. In real
| reality (for those not familiar), the grail is a legend
| invented in the middle ages.
| sorokod wrote:
| That ground penetrating radar really delivers but what is the
| stunning part?
| parsimo2010 wrote:
| Finding 12 ancient skeletons in a place that was not previously
| known as a tomb is pretty stunning. Imagine if you found 12
| bodies under your neighborhood bank- people would freak out,
| and it's not nearly as old as the Petra Treasury.
| sorokod wrote:
| Many places we know now as tombs weren't known as such
| before, that is untill some skeletons were found.
| throwway120385 wrote:
| If you wait around long enough anywhere becomes a tomb.
| pvaldes wrote:
| For some reason, slow people always lie under the big boulder,
| shaped like mail stamps. Never over the rock.
| noneeeed wrote:
| For anyone thinking of visitng Petra, try and allow more than a
| couple of hours. When we went it was for two days, going in and
| out each day. A lot of people just go down the entry canyon, take
| a look at the Treasury (the bit in Indiana Jones) and head back.
| But the site itself is much larger. If you are up for a decent
| walk there are parts that I thought were much more impressive and
| interesting up the hills. Some of the scenary around there is
| stunning.
|
| Also, if you can do down in the evening, that's great too.
|
| Jordan as a whole was a really interesting place to visit.
| viewtransform wrote:
| For those who cannot travel, the Fall of Civilizations episode
| 15. The Nabataeans - The Final Days Of Petra has stunning
| visuals in 4K
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSfFq02pK4s
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