[HN Gopher] A Brief Rant on the Future of Interaction Design (2011)
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       A Brief Rant on the Future of Interaction Design (2011)
        
       Author : yarapavan
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2024-10-14 16:18 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (worrydream.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (worrydream.com)
        
       | big-green-man wrote:
       | I like this perspective and I share it. It frustrates me to watch
       | the initial Demo of Apple's concept of a touch oriented computer,
       | seeing multi touch demonstrated, moving objects around, and to
       | sit here typing this on something like it, except it's one finger
       | at a time and multitouch was dumbed down into pinch to zoom and
       | little else. I can't stand the fact that almost all computer
       | interfaces outside smartphones are interacted with using only the
       | right wrist and index finger. The future is what we have now but
       | transparent, what we have now with no bezels, what we have now
       | but made of disposable paper, what we have now but the size of a
       | table. It's just not compelling to me.
       | 
       | And it's because it's hard imagining a completely new way of
       | interacting with computing technology. People that are able to do
       | that don't get paid script writers salaries, they get paid Steve
       | Jobs salaries. And they are worth billions to organizations
       | capable of making them a reality.
        
         | jonbell wrote:
         | Funny side note: he was paid $1 of salary
        
       | seism wrote:
       | When I am forced to use a phone or tablet of a brand and size I'm
       | not used to, everything seems wonky and out of place. Yet I can
       | adapt to a different brand and size of car in a few minutes.
       | Replacing tactile memory with skeuomorphism, is like a prosthetic
       | arm that can extend 10m to replace your sickly feely biological
       | one. I'm always up for advocating for more arts & crafts as part
       | of interaction design.
        
       | vintagedave wrote:
       | The worst of it is even the Pictures Under Glass have got worse.
       | They used to be designed to look like things, so you'd see
       | something that looked pushable and push (tap) it.
       | 
       | So even if there was no tactile engagement there was visual
       | engagement communicating tactile interaction.
       | 
       | Now even that's gone. Our Pictures Under Glass are bland and flat
       | and look like translucent acrylic and, well, glass.
        
         | Lalabadie wrote:
         | Back when Apple announced "3D Touch" (by name before showing
         | it), I dearly hoped it was _finally_ introducing above-the-
         | screen finger detection. Instead it was pressure sensitivity,
         | and even that got dropped a few years back.
         | 
         | I'm still hoping for a hover-like mechanism that allows
         | touchscreens to have non-commital interactions. As you say,
         | touch is surprisingly devoid of depth for its maturity and time
         | on the market.
         | 
         | I'm hoping some level of above-the-screen finger detection
         | comes eventually, because if it gets to a mainstream
         | distribution stage, it opens the door for bleeding-edge to aim
         | for larger detection distances, and eventually seeing hand
         | gestures above the screen.
         | 
         | Whether it's in this form or something completely different,
         | our screen interactions need to be broadened, especially in a
         | direction that allows users to signal intent but not commitment
         | (like hovering with a mouse, or looking with eye tracking).
        
           | mncharity wrote:
           | > it opens the door for bleeding-edge to aim for larger
           | detection distances, and eventually seeing hand gestures
           | above the screen [...] our screen interactions need to be
           | broadened [...] signal intent but not commitment (like
           | hovering with a mouse, or looking with eye tracking)
           | 
           | My laptop used to have several cameras (flopping up from
           | behind screen) for 3D hand tracking, (crufty) keycap touch,
           | and head/gaze pose. With shutter glasses, overlaying a
           | slightly-raised transparent top-down view from a keyboard cam
           | was helpful and tolerable. Browser-based stack. Input fusion
           | with diverse latencies required app state rollback. Fun(ish).
           | 
           | > _finally_ [...] even that got dropped a few years back
           | [...] eventually [...] broadened
           | 
           | This was profoundly frustrating. Waiting for a couple of
           | giant companies, interested only in _extremely_ difficult
           | mass consumer markets, to make tech available so it can
           | _afterward_ be explored and nitches probed, with patents
           | shackling everyone else, was just... sigh. Pharma turning the
           | nation 's explore-exploit dial hard over regrettably leaves a
           | lot of paths forward nonviable.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _A brief rant on the future of interaction design (2011)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31511361 - May 2022 (132
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _A brief rant on the future of interaction design (2011)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21116948 - Sept 2019 (153
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _A Brief Rant on the Future of Interaction Design (2011)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6325996 - Sept 2013 (35
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _A Brief Rant on the Future of Interaction Design_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3212949 - Nov 2011 (150
       | comments)
        
       | bbor wrote:
       | This is incredible work, thanks for sharing. That said, does
       | anyone know what kind of technology they're gesturing to? Maybe
       | I'm really stuck in the present, but short of tangible holograms
       | I'm not sure how we'd make tactile computing devices.
       | 
       | The keyboard is tactile, and I've long dreamed of augmenting
       | Alexa by covering my house in purpose-specific buttons, but that
       | seems like a short road. Even the most advanced HCI device I've
       | ever seen proposed by a consumer company--Meta's Orion wristbands
       | that read hand movements by measuring the electrical signals in
       | your wrist--aren't tangible in the slightest.
       | 
       | What am I missing? Can any fellow futurists point me in the right
       | direction? I don't need "doable today" or even "the technology is
       | worked out", but ideally I'm looking for something more doable
       | than tangible holograms. See https://xkcd.com/678/
       | 
       | EDIT; the VR suits from the Three Body Problem books come to
       | mind, using tiny actuators and temperature controls (thermal
       | actuators?) to simulate touch. I could see that in a glove for
       | sure, and that's probably the most futuristic tactility gets at
       | this point, but I doubt it'll ever see fully-body usage, both for
       | technical feasibility and user convenience reasons. There's a
       | reason the TV show replaced them with brain-modulating
       | headsets... I guess _that's_ really the end dream.
       | 
       | What is a tangible hologram (or any interface, really) other than
       | an illusion, at the end of the day?
        
         | _rpf wrote:
         | Bret Victors current project is Dynamicland, a real space he's
         | been building to explore computing within the physical world,
         | with humans at its center. The system he invented is known as
         | Realtalk, and is integrated into the building, where cameras
         | and projectors engage with the humans within it.
         | 
         | https://dynamicland.org/
        
         | alanbernstein wrote:
         | > a dynamic medium we can see, feel and manipulate
         | 
         | I wonder if this is a "pick 2" situation.
         | 
         | Touchscreen: see and sorta manipulate
         | 
         | Orion: manipulate (in only the weak sense that it uses more
         | than one finger)
         | 
         | Braille display, haptic glove/suit: feel and see (redundantly?)
         | 
         | In my touchscreen-biased mind, I can't imagine a technology
         | that could do all three of these, which I would want to use
         | regularly or carry around, or wear for hours at a time.
         | 
         | The touchscreen, combining the "see" with at least a tiny bit
         | of the "manipulate", is actually an amazing step, but it may be
         | a dead end. I've seen research into things like tactile
         | screens, with adjustable surface height. But the benefit it
         | gives is evidently not worth the cost in development,
         | manufacturing, or complexity.
        
           | bbor wrote:
           | Thanks for taking the time, really thought provoking... Will
           | definitely be kicking that around in my head. No
           | counterpoints.
           | 
           | I was going to correct you that Orion is just a baby step
           | towards Minority Report holograms (aka plain ol' non-tangible
           | holograms), and that reminded me: the famous opening scene
           | had lots more than holograms!
           | 
           | Specifically, they had physical objects (harddrives, knobs,
           | spheres, etc) that didn't seem to have much electronics
           | actually in them, but that were tracked and responded-to by
           | the computing system in a dynamic way. For example, easily
           | passing data between the hologram and a little ball that you
           | can easily move to another display, give to someone else,
           | etc. in a completely seamless (read: AI-managed) way.
           | 
           | That might be my biggest hope for the future, while we're
           | waiting on tactile gloves. This kind of thing:
           | https://www.behance.net/gallery/105147921/Apple-x-
           | Procreate-...
        
         | RevEng wrote:
         | I don't know about full 3D manipulation, but we used buttons
         | and switches and levers for decades. They worked great. They
         | are easy to see, feel, and manipulate. They can't move or
         | change, so muscle memory develops naturally. You can use them
         | while not looking and with gloves on - essential when driving
         | or operating other dangerous machinery. The natural constraints
         | of them meant that they were ready to discover and learn.
         | 
         | Over time we got better at packing more into a button.
         | Multimodal buttons became a thing, and once alphanumeric
         | displays become practical, a single knob or arrow keypad to
         | scroll through tiny menus became common. Twenty years after
         | that, everything is a flat, touch sensitive button, and more
         | and more we hide them from even being visible until they are
         | interacted with.
         | 
         | I believe the reasons for this are two fold. First, they are
         | futuristic. People are drawn to new, shiny things, even if they
         | are functionally worse. The second is cost. Physical switches
         | are quite expensive compared to digital electronics. As
         | touchscreens have become cheaper, they have replaced more
         | physical inputs. Similarly, they have replaced discrete
         | indicator lights, meters, and other single purpose indicators.
         | 
         | The cost savings is modest in terms of an entire product, but
         | businesses will spend days saving one cent in production costs
         | because it adds up over millions produced. It usually amounts
         | to a small percentage of profits, but they'll chase anything.
        
           | bbor wrote:
           | Great points, it just occurred to me that I'm biased towards
           | high level applications! HCI equally applies to our
           | appliances, factories, and vehicles to name a few, and I
           | absolutely agree that physical affordances are not quite as
           | outmoded as Musk might say they are.
           | 
           | Fun fact that we don't talk about enough: I'm not sure if
           | it's still happening, but at some point, the controls in the
           | spaceX shuttles were touchscreens running _javascript_. It
           | brings me joy (and obviously fear!) to imagine an npm
           | _node_modules_ directory makings it to space... I think the
           | consensus is spot on that there can absolutely be too many
           | touchscreens.
           | 
           | More fundamentally your answer doesn't really speak to what I
           | was thinking of, though: general computing. Buttons and
           | switches are great for purpose-built machines, but the
           | applicability to general computing is minimal. How could one
           | possibly fundamentally expound upon the keyboard or mouse?
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I had the privilege to work with one of the best Interaction
       | Design teams around (DDO). It really opened my eyes to the
       | process.
       | 
       | I enjoyed this rant. I know it's old, but this is the first time
       | I've seen it.
        
         | mncharity wrote:
         | https://www.dubberly.com/ - liked
         | https://www.dubberly.com/concept-maps
         | https://www.dubberly.com/projects
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | Cool! They're still around!
           | 
           | Hugh Dubberly was a pretty decent chap. I liked working with
           | him.
           | 
           | They had this _massive_ inkjet printer, and would deliver
           | room-length charts.
        
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