[HN Gopher] Interview with Terence Tao in Barcelona
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       Interview with Terence Tao in Barcelona
        
       Author : belter
       Score  : 50 points
       Date   : 2024-10-12 20:56 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (english.elpais.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (english.elpais.com)
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | This interview covers a few different topics, like detecting
       | flaws in the Venezuelan elections, to dangerous applications of
       | AI, to monopolistic control of AI (towards the end of the
       | interview).
       | 
       | Monopolistic control is clearly a problem, and all the barriers
       | (money for GPUs, regulations that pull up the ladder, hoarding of
       | user data, ability for big companies to copy smaller ones, etc)
       | make this AI transition problematic unless we also come up with
       | new easy to enforce antitrust regulations.
       | 
       | But I think an even bigger issue is that these monopolists are
       | all closed source. Open source in AI means we should be able to
       | reproduce their exact model. Everything from training data to
       | censorship filters needs to be transparent. Otherwise we really
       | have no idea how we might be getting manipulated through these
       | systems, whether by the company providing the models or those who
       | can regulate or pressure or otherwise control those companies.
        
         | koolala wrote:
         | >Open source in AI means we should be able to reproduce their
         | exact model.
         | 
         | like: Use this specific RNG seed and train for 10 trillion
         | cycles in this data to get X duplicate model?
        
           | solveit wrote:
           | Practicality of reproducing training runs that cost tens of
           | millions aside, it's hopeless. Determinism is hard enough
           | with a single GPU, fixing a seed isn't going to be much help
           | when training is distributed across hundreds of GPUs.
        
       | ashater wrote:
       | Terrence Tao has a very healthy view of what AI can and cannot
       | achieve shorter term. It is refreshing to hear more grounded
       | views from a top mathematician who is clearly well versed in the
       | topic.
        
       | raincole wrote:
       | I don't get his reasoning about the Venezuela election.
       | 
       | In theory, the chances one candidate get exactly 56.1% votes and
       | 56.108174% votes are the same, right?
       | 
       | We will need the prior probabilities of
       | 
       | 1. Assuming we don't know the vote count, how likely it's rigged
       | 
       | 2. Assuming it's rigged, how likely it's rigged in a way that the
       | percentage is precisely XX.X%
       | 
       | To calculate
       | 
       | 3. Given the vote count we know now, how likely it's rigged
       | 
       | Of course I practically know nothing about math compared to Tao,
       | so I might completely miss his point.
        
         | energy123 wrote:
         | The chances are only the same if it wasn't rigged. If it was
         | rigged, the chances aren't the same because humans tend to pick
         | round numbers more frequently. Tao explains this in his longer
         | blog post.
        
         | sahbasanai wrote:
         | Yes, those chances are the same. But they're also the same as
         | the chances of the result being 56.108175% or 56.1081756%. So,
         | using your number of decimal places (choosing this number of
         | decimal places is a slight simplification but it doesn't affect
         | the point), there are 10 million numbers for which the
         | probability was the same. It's like saying "draw a random
         | number from 0 to 10 million" and drawing exactly 1 million. He
         | says that this unlikely event happened with multiple results in
         | the election, and this would likely mean there is anomaly.
        
         | arnogau wrote:
         | I think he's defining a round number as, for some precision Y,
         | X number of consecutive most significant digits are 0.
         | 
         | e.g. for a precision = 8 number, its "round" when the last 5
         | digits are 0, so like 32.300000 would be round.
         | 
         | The probabilities of round vs non round are pretty skewed.
         | There are far fewer round numbers (for reasonable definitions)
         | than there are non round numbers.
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | Not all numbers come out equally as likely. Round numbers are
           | more likely to be picked by humans (or at least that's the
           | argument)
        
             | raincole wrote:
             | That's why I said we need to know:
             | 
             | > 2. Assuming it's rigged, how likely it's rigged in a way
             | that the percentage is precisely XX.X%
             | 
             | But I didn't realize he wrote a blog post about it. He
             | actually addressed everything I listed (and more) in
             | detail:
             | 
             | https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2024/08/02/what-are-the-
             | odds-...
             | 
             | TL;DR: Yes, we need to know all these priori probabilities
             | to get the exact answer. He made an assumption about them.
        
       | madcaptenor wrote:
       | (In English, if you're wondering.)
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | The interview looks translated from Spanish to English, as the
       | prosody looks closer to Romance languages. Altough who knows, as
       | we Europeans prefer to use lots of Latin/Greek/French derived
       | English words because of convenience, as most educated speakers
       | in Academia will know the meaning. As Europe it's a hub on
       | Romances/English on scientific environments, native English
       | speakers might get these 'oddities' back.
       | 
       | But, as a con, we might get more difficulties on Germanic words
       | which are pretty much a piece of cake for any English speaker as
       | they are used to them far more than to "technical" Romance words.
       | 
       | Paradoxically we might get along better on highly educated
       | English native speakers than having a random chat with the
       | average guy using mundane words. In my case I have to do huge
       | efforts in order to 'simplify' my English.
        
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