[HN Gopher] Python client for the $20 Colmi R02 smart ring
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Python client for the $20 Colmi R02 smart ring
        
       Author : tahnok
       Score  : 316 points
       Date   : 2024-10-14 01:06 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tahnok.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tahnok.github.io)
        
       | vosper wrote:
       | I couldn't find it on the product page: any idea if this has a
       | vibrating alarm? I'm in the market for something to wake me up
       | without disturbing my partner
        
         | flax wrote:
         | it does not.
        
           | IgorPartola wrote:
           | If it doesn't vibrate that's a real shame. Ideally I would
           | want it to vibrate as well as be able to detect gestures.
           | That would be such a killer combo for so many things from
           | golf training to turning on the mood lighting with a swish of
           | your hand.
        
           | 0xEF wrote:
           | Well, they missed a huge opportunity to break into the
           | discrete sex toy market, then.
        
             | fransje26 wrote:
             | For small diameter inserts..
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Wouldn't a watch do that? Ex. the
         | https://pine64.com/product/pinetime-smartwatch-sealed/ is dirt
         | cheap and its alarms just vibrate the watch.
        
           | vosper wrote:
           | I would prefer something less bulky (I don't wear a watch)
           | but thank you for the link: that is indeed dirt cheap and
           | probably worth a go.
        
           | petemir wrote:
           | I guess it depends. My partner still gets woken up by my
           | (smart)watch at the lowest vibration setting.
        
             | michaelt wrote:
             | If your partner gets woken by a watch vibration actuator, I
             | doubt it's possible for you to sneak out of bed without
             | waking them, as your body weighs about 10,000 times as much
             | as that actuator.
        
         | alchemist1e9 wrote:
         | I used the smallest fitbit for that. Work very well for me.
        
       | heavyset_go wrote:
       | One of these with a Java card and NFC would be cool.
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | We've had those for 26 years
         | https://www.ebay.com/itm/300495374337
        
           | hyperific wrote:
           | Only on HN could you find a gem like this. This is a bit of
           | internet history.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | I love eBay sellers:
           | 
           | > _JAVA RING: VERY RARE!_
           | 
           | > _More than 10 available - 1,230 sold_
        
             | sgt wrote:
             | After HN there won't be anything left.
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | Thank you for unlocking this core memory
        
       | Always42 wrote:
       | At a quick glance this looks cool!
       | 
       | I just have a hard time justifying things like this when the
       | apple watch + iphone work so well. But i'm sure at some point the
       | apple experience will get worse and push people to other OS like
       | windows is
        
         | RamiAwar wrote:
         | 20$
         | 
         | 1200$
         | 
         | I have an easier time justifying this
        
         | israrkhan wrote:
         | Here are few reasons that justify its existance.
         | 
         | * Different form factor
         | 
         | * Not tied to Apple Ecosystem.
         | 
         | * Price
         | 
         | * You can even use it independently (without phone).
        
         | daghamm wrote:
         | I dont understand this attitude.
         | 
         | If this is how you feel about technology why are you not on the
         | verge instead of HACKER news?
        
         | inanutshellus wrote:
         | Everyone I know that has a smart watch charges it overnight.
         | How do you propose using it to track sleep?
        
           | WesleyJohnson wrote:
           | Your question implies the answer; charge it at different
           | times and wear it to bed?
        
             | inanutshellus wrote:
             | Remember the context of my quip is in reply to "I don't see
             | the value in the ring, just buy a $1200 watch and phone
             | combo and make sure you charge your watch while you're out
             | living your life, not when you're asleep."
             | 
             | Still seems pretty clear as to why someone would find value
             | in the ring. Another poster says he charges his ring while
             | he showers. It's that quick. I'm not knocking smart-*, just
             | reacting to the dismissive "why would anyone want this"
             | attitude of GP.
        
       | wanderingmind wrote:
       | Amazing work. But, What would it take to port this work to
       | Gadgetbridge to make the access easier
        
         | dingensundso wrote:
         | Looks like gadgetbridge already supports it (in nightly):
         | https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/pulls/3896
         | https://gadgetbridge.org/gadgets/wearables/colmi/
        
         | cdchn wrote:
         | Wow I'm more excited to learn about Gadgetbridge than I am
         | about this ring.
        
       | Flux159 wrote:
       | This looks interesting - is there a comparable ring that also has
       | a temperature sensor? It would be interesting to be able to
       | determine if you're sick a day or two ahead like an Oura ring or
       | Apple's new Vitals app for Apple Watch using an open source app.
       | 
       | Alternatively, does anyone know if it's possible with the sensors
       | just in this ring?
        
         | karamanolev wrote:
         | From my experience, RHR, sleeping heart rate and HRV are good
         | indicators of when I'm getting sick.
        
         | JansjoFromIkea wrote:
         | would also be keen to find one with a temperature sensor, looks
         | like there's nothing remotely near this price point yet?
        
       | bhaney wrote:
       | Cool. Just ordered one (from Temu, $18) even though I already
       | wear an Apple Watch. Love the idea of having something I can
       | interface with directly and pull realtime data from without
       | having to install some middleman phone app.
        
         | woadwarrior01 wrote:
         | I just did the same. I'd love to try augmenting the sleep
         | tracking data from my Apple Watch with the sleep tracking data
         | from this ring. A couple of months ago, I learnt from this YT
         | video[1] that sleep tracking gadgets are all quite inaccurate
         | compared to a proper polysomnography study. But they're all
         | inaccurate in different ways.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjOYhxLJP90
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Right but if it's the same sensor you are wearing each night
           | you can still learn something from the trends instead of
           | relying on the raw numbers.
           | 
           | E.g there's a definite motivation kick to drink less when I
           | see what it does to my hrv and sleep trends for days
           | afterwards, while I don't particularly care about the numbers
           | being all that accurate.
           | 
           | Edit: Oh and turning on afib history in your Apple Watch will
           | make it record like 10x data points which also helps with
           | that. Maybe
        
       | croes wrote:
       | How accurate can the data of such a smart ring be or do other
       | smart ring have so high margins?
        
         | bhaney wrote:
         | From the little bit of research I just did before buying one,
         | most people are reporting that compared to their more expensive
         | trackers, the heart rate, accelerometer, and sleep tracking
         | functionality are all pretty accurate (good sleep tracking
         | being dependent on a high sampling rate, which decreases
         | battery life), but the blood oxygen and "stress" reporting is
         | uselessly inaccurate.
        
           | OkGoDoIt wrote:
           | That has also been my experience with this model. I've been
           | using it for about a month now. I originally planned on
           | trying to use the accelerometer data over Bluetooth to build
           | a custom control input for Frame smart glasses, but I got
           | busy and never got around to that. But I've been wearing it
           | as a health tracker and the heart rate and sleep tracking
           | seem pretty accurate relative to my Apple Watch, and the
           | blood oxygen measurement is generally a couple percentage
           | lower than my Apple Watch. I have no idea what the stress
           | thing is even supposed to measure, it's just a random number
           | that doesn't seem to have any correlation with real life and
           | there's no units or explanation.
           | 
           | I get about four days of battery life with all of the sensors
           | turned up to maximum frequency, which is every 5 minutes at
           | least for the heart rate. Surprisingly good for such a small
           | lightweight device. I imagine it could go a lot longer if you
           | turned down the sensors to a lower frequency. I found a good
           | rhythm is to charge it when I take showers, that seems to be
           | a good balance and it never comes close to dying. My Apple
           | Watch on the other hand regularly dies before I go to bed,
           | and I can't wear it for sleep tracking because it can't last
           | that long.
           | 
           | I will never understand people that pay a monthly
           | subscription to access basic local sensor information like
           | this. Yet I see people wearing subscription-based smart rings
           | all the time. I don't get it.
        
             | updatedprocess wrote:
             | Some reviews say it's a little bulky to wear. It's that
             | your experience?
        
               | OkGoDoIt wrote:
               | It's a bit thicker than my normal wedding ring, but its
               | also a lot lighter weight. I don't really notice the
               | difference enough to mind. I suppose if you're not
               | already used to wearing a ring it might take more effort
               | to get used to.
               | 
               | They come in different sizes and they don't necessarily
               | correspond to standard USA ring sizes, so it takes some
               | effort to measure and make sure you get the right one.
               | But the effort is worth it to get a comfortable fit. And
               | they are cheap enough that you can always buy multiple
               | different sizes. I think I paid like $11 for mine on
               | Taobao with free shipping (part of that may have been a
               | discount since I was a new customer).
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | It only samples heart rate every 5min? While I can't get
             | disappointed over a $20 device, that really limits the
             | utility of the heart rate data.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I tried blood oxygen and the readings were the same as my
           | pulse oximeter (though it always shows 98%, so I haven't
           | managed to test any other value), but my sleep reporting with
           | the ring would regularly be three or four hours longer than I
           | actually slept, making it useless.
        
             | alwayslikethis wrote:
             | > test any other value
             | 
             | Try this:
             | 
             | Hyperventilate for a minute or two. Then, make a full
             | exhale and hold it. You should be able to hold your breath
             | for longer than you normally can and during this time you
             | should see the value drop a bit. Be sure to inhale before
             | you start getting dizzy or faint. (Note: do not do this
             | under water)
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Oh interesting, thank you, I'll try that.
        
               | HumblyTossed wrote:
               | > (Note: do not do this under water)
               | 
               | Or while operating heavy machinery.
        
       | Galanwe wrote:
       | Is there a similar ring with NFC?
       | 
       | I have no use for the smart health thingies, which really look
       | like a data driven health gimmicks to me.
       | 
       | NFC on the other hand I could find hundreds of applications, from
       | payment to access and transport cards.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I think you're onto something.
         | 
         | I would be ok with a watch too.
        
           | hotfixguru wrote:
           | A friend of a friend mods Casio watches[0] to have NFC, and
           | sells them on his website.
           | 
           | [0] https://delaveris.com/collections/nfc
        
         | gorbypark wrote:
         | They do exist, I believe. I don't have one but came across many
         | for sale on AliExpress when looking for a writer to clone my
         | RFID apartment door entry thingy. Seems like they even have
         | some that are dual NFC/RFID that would work as regular NFC as
         | well as for my apartment door (125khz).
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | The problem with that idea is that all secure implementations
         | of RFID lock the user out, meaning you can't just buy an NFC
         | ring/fob/implant and copy your bank card or transit card onto
         | it. The only implementations where the user can do that are
         | terribly insecure and, while still commonly used, are slowly
         | getting phased out.
         | 
         | So for anything other than systems you control or are good
         | friends with the IT guy for, you're out of luck.
        
           | Galanwe wrote:
           | Right I agree with you on theory. But in practice, I already
           | do clone most of my smart cards on small NFC stickers on the
           | back of my phone case.
           | 
           | The things is 99.9% of access cards (where I leave at least)
           | are default-encrypted mifare classic, making cloning trivial.
           | Transport cards are an other beast since they have their own
           | backlog and proper encryption, but there are ways.
           | 
           | So all in all, dumping the card is not the issue for me, it's
           | the medium on which to put the clones that is still a
           | question mark.
           | 
           | The "NFC sticker on the back of the phone" is cool because
           | it's almost as if your phone opens the door (stock android
           | won't let me easily swap NFC SC ID), but NFC is fidgety when
           | multiple chips are in close proximity, leading to frequent
           | misses.
           | 
           | I have found multi-chips NFC cards on Ali Express. These are
           | basically a single antenna wired to an array of chips
           | directed by a keypad. That seems viable on paper but you
           | still get to carry the card and press the right switch.
           | 
           | The ideal solution would be a smart ring with a reflashable
           | NFC chip, along with a programmable MCU to implement the
           | rolling logic between cards.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | Reflashing the NFC chip on the ring is a bit of a pain (it
             | takes a second, but if I have to spend a second doing it
             | every day, I might as well get my keys out). Since every
             | phone has an NFC chip nowadays, though, can't we use that
             | to emulate all our Mifare cards?
        
               | Galanwe wrote:
               | > can't we use that to emulate all our Mifare cards?
               | 
               | Unfortunately, no.
               | 
               | From my experience at least, most access cards are simple
               | mifare classic cards, and they have no payload: the
               | reader just got a list of allowed card IDs, maintained by
               | the building IT.
               | 
               | While you can freely rewrite mifare data from Android, it
               | won't let you change your ID unless you root your phone.
               | I guess this is similar to the old days where you weren't
               | supposed to change your MAC addresses.
        
             | wellthisisgreat wrote:
             | Sounds interesting, which sticker are you using?
        
         | edent wrote:
         | Yes. I have the Z1 Ring.
         | 
         | Getting secure tokens (like payment, door unlock, etc) is
         | possible but can be complicated. The ring is a small target, so
         | not always easy to find the received if you're using it with a
         | phone.
         | 
         | Oh, and the software is low level and finickity. I managed to
         | accidentally set mine to read only mode permanently.
         | 
         | Review at https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2024/02/giving-the-finger-
         | to-mfa-a-...
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I have a suspicion this is a whitelabeled NFC ring I got from
           | AliExpress for $12. That one includes a T5577 chip and a
           | Mifare tag. You can read and write the Mifare tag with your
           | phone, as normal, and the T5577 with a Flipper Zero or a
           | Proxmark (also from Ali, $40).
           | 
           | The NFC tag is a small target, probably because of the size
           | of the antenna, but the RFID one has pretty good range. I got
           | five of those rings, very much recommended if you have stuff
           | to auth to.
        
             | edent wrote:
             | I think your suspicions are wrong. Those $12 rings will
             | allow you to serve NDEF messages or similar. They won't do
             | U2F, payment, car unlock etc.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | It doesn't look like the Z1 does payment either, though.
               | I don't know how they do U2F, but it looks like it comes
               | with a custom reader, which is non-standard. I don't know
               | how Tesla unlock works, so I can't say there.
        
               | edent wrote:
               | There is no custom reader. It works with standard NFC
               | readers on Linux and Android.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Ahh interesting, thank you.
        
         | DaSHacka wrote:
         | Dangerous Things (popular RFID/NFC implant makers) sell dual
         | 125khz+13.56mhz clonable rings, but they're way overpriced
         | ($130). I bought my "V1" back when they were still $60, and
         | FWIW, if you know what you're doing, it _does_ work.
         | 
         | I've also seen some rings on Aliexpress that purport to support
         | the same capabilites, but havent personally tried them out yet.
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | I've tried the Aliexpress ones, they work fine. I have like
           | five of them.
        
             | DaSHacka wrote:
             | Which vendor did you buy from?
             | 
             | When aquiantances ask me for recommendations I always tell
             | them to look into Aliexpress over Dangerous Things as
             | they're significantly cheaper, but I've also heard really
             | mixed things about the various offerings on the site.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | The only time I've been scammed was when I bought a 16 TB
               | USB drive for $3, or a $10 mosquito bite thing that
               | didn't work. Basically, if the thing sells for much
               | cheaper than anywhere else, it's a scam, otherwise you're
               | OK.
               | 
               | I've bought from Ali hundreds of times, maybe thousands
               | of items. The quality isn't always great (what can you
               | expect for the price?), but it's very rarely scams.
               | 
               | Stay away from microSD cards, though.
        
         | weinzierl wrote:
         | I have no use for the smart health thingies too, but instead of
         | NFC I want to use it as a controller and display.
         | 
         | Is there a ring with touch or physical buttons. A clicky wheel
         | would even be better. As display I image multiple discreet RGB-
         | leds, but other option could work as well.
        
       | dsign wrote:
       | The hardware is getting so cheap! But the software...
       | 
       | I bought for $20 a bed lamp that comes with led lights, bluetooth
       | receiver, clock and alarm clock, and wireless charging for my
       | iphone. It has a microphone to stream all my conversations god
       | knows where, though its purported purpose is to listen me sing
       | and pulse the lights according to the pitch.
       | 
       | It comes with a convenient app to set the clock and the lights.
       | But due to a glitch in the software, the alarm goes off every
       | night at 01:00 AM. I haven't been able to disable that via their
       | official app; no real programmers were used making that thing.
       | But there probably is a bug in their bluetooth stack that would
       | allow me to become root of the lamp and fix it myself...if I had
       | the time.
       | 
       | I wish hardware makers for off-brand products would include a
       | minimal hacking kit in their boxes.
        
         | trojan13 wrote:
         | You could try to open it (carefully, you might damage your
         | precious lamp. Also please plug it out beforhand). Often times
         | smart devices like these have debugging ports left on the board
         | you can easily access with some clamps.
        
           | Yenrabbit wrote:
           | Or failing that, desolder the offending speaker to keep the
           | rest of the functionality intact.
        
         | swiftcoder wrote:
         | > its purported purpose is to listen me sing and pulse the
         | lights according to the pitch
         | 
         | I'm stunned there are enough customers with good enough pitch
         | control to make that a viable market
        
       | TechDebtDevin wrote:
       | Hell ya, thanks for this!
        
       | TechDebtDevin wrote:
       | I'm so excited to play with this. I just ordered one. I've gone
       | through two Oura rings (I do not reccomend). I'm not sure this
       | will be reliable but it cost me $14.00 not $300 and doesn't
       | charge me monthly to access a mediocre api.
        
         | pydry wrote:
         | Oura rings do seem to have accurate tracking (unlike most smart
         | watches). The data it collects and the subscription model look
         | awful though.
         | 
         | Im eagerly awaiting a ring sleep tracker like it which can be
         | used offline with gadgetbridge or something.
        
           | danielbln wrote:
           | Support for this ring (Colmi R02) was added to Gadgetbridge,
           | so I suppose your wait is over:
           | https://codeberg.org/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/pulls/3896
        
             | pydry wrote:
             | The sleep tracker seems to be quite poor - e.g.
             | misrecognizing time spent in bed as time asleep. This was
             | the same problem I had before with a xiaomi. It was so
             | inaccurate on all fronts I just ditched the thing.
             | 
             | I wasnt _expecting_ the colmi to be accurate for this low
             | price, but still.
             | 
             | For gadgetbridge I dont think there are any good sleep
             | trackers and the only two I know of that are genuinely
             | accurate are the apple watch and oura (theres a guy who
             | tests them all on youtube - this is what he found).
             | 
             | Id happily pay extra for a decent non-apple local storage
             | only fitness tracker which integrates with OSS and doesnt
             | upload every heartbeat to the cloud but it does not seem to
             | exist.
        
             | tahnok wrote:
             | Nice, I hadn't seen the gadgetbridge support PR before,
             | will be good for a lot of people I think
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | _> Oura rings do seem to have accurate tracking (unlike most
           | smart watches)._
           | 
           | Accurate tracking of what? And which smart watches?
           | 
           | The Apple Watch seems to generally have the most accurate
           | tracking according to most studies, which surprises me.
           | 
           | When I was looking at buying an Oura and browsing user
           | subreddits, it was full of complaints about inaccurate
           | readings and the slow intervals between readings.
        
             | TechDebtDevin wrote:
             | Oura is terrible. Without their paid influencers they'd be
             | in the graveyard with Pebble and other past wearable
             | companies.
             | 
             | Your Oura ring will likely get bricked by their updates
             | (they'll replace it, but come on). Or you could simply have
             | a busy week, forget to charge it and ban. Bricked.
             | 
             | They of course were first to market with this form factor,
             | so they of course are going to be the ones to take most of
             | the flack for all the growing pains that come with that.
             | This is typical with any new platform. However, they still
             | leave a ton to be desired and I can't really see how
             | they'll survive the next few years with all the competition
             | in the space.
        
           | TechDebtDevin wrote:
           | Rings are not a mature form factor for these
           | sensors/platforms.The $50.00 huawei band 8 is much more
           | accurate than the $3-400 Oura ring. Check out the Quantified
           | Scientist on YouTube[0].
           | 
           | [0]: https://m.youtube.com/@TheQuantifiedScientist
           | 
           | While I still love the ring form factor. As tacky as it
           | sounds, I still wear my bricked Oura rings sometimes just
           | because I like the feel lol. However, I would never trust
           | Oura ((or any other device outside of Apple(unfortunately))
           | to gauge you health off their data. While Oura is
           | directionally correct (like most of them), it never once
           | detected low oxygen levels in my sleep and I have some of the
           | worst central sleep apnea my doctor has seen.
        
             | bg0 wrote:
             | The comments referencing quantified scientists do so in a
             | somewhat negative light. But it should be noted that in his
             | research, he points out that the oura is one of the top
             | trackers for sleep[0]. This is not the only video that he
             | praises the oura for being pretty damn good based on other
             | devices.
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niLuR68YleI 2min41sec
        
               | TechDebtDevin wrote:
               | For sleep phases and mediocre oxygen levels and bad HRV
               | readings. And on his blog he says he does use it for his
               | sleep tracking, so yeah. I'm not saying it's terrible but
               | for sp02 I can confidently say it's terrible. I use
               | actual nighttime pulse oximeters from Wellue which is
               | also a (larger) ring form factor[0]. and I can see the
               | large dips in O2 for example, the Oura will not detect
               | this despite going into the low 80%s (very low) when my
               | mask falls off.
               | 
               | What bothers me about these sleep tracking devices is
               | they are often "on the low" reccomended as ways to detect
               | sleep problems like sleep apnea. This might not be done
               | by the companies themselves but it is certainly done by
               | influencers who are hired to promote these products. If
               | someone were to buy an Oura ring because they snore (one
               | of their marketing tactics) to try and see if they have
               | sleep apnea there is a high chance that the app would
               | tell them their oxygen levels are fine and then they'd
               | never go get a sleep study (which cost less than an Oura
               | ring with home kits now). Assuming this caused them to
               | never follow up on that snoring again, Oura's (and other
               | companies) marketing and mediocre tech would quite
               | literally shaved years off this persons life.
               | 
               | When I asked my doc if sleep apnea could kill me if left
               | untreated, he responded, "It WILL kill you if we leave it
               | untreated."
               | 
               | [0]:https://getwellue.com/pages/o2ring-oxygen-monitor
               | 
               | Edit: I do believe in 5 years Oura and other similar
               | products will have figures this out. Just not yet.
        
               | noname120 wrote:
               | The Wellue is a great find, thanks a lot.
        
         | pards wrote:
         | IMHO companies should not be permitted to "sell" devices that
         | require a subscription to function - that's a rental model -
         | especially when there's only one service provider.
         | 
         | Either sell the ring and include lifetime membership for free
         | like Garmin [0], or _lease/rent_ the device on contract and
         | charge a monthly fee. Don't do both
         | 
         | The Oura starts at $469 CAD [1] plus $7.99 CAD per month [2].
         | 
         | [0]: https://connect.garmin.com/
         | 
         | [1]: https://ouraring.com/product/rings/oura-ring-4/silver
         | 
         | [2]: https://support.ouraring.com/hc/en-
         | us/articles/360052018753-...
        
           | kmlx wrote:
           | oura ring does function without a subscription, but the data
           | is obviously poorer.
        
             | TechDebtDevin wrote:
             | Yeah I specifically referred to the API. Without the
             | subscription their app is pretty whack and outside of that
             | you can only download .csv from a link.
        
           | RunningDroid wrote:
           | > Either sell the ring and include lifetime membership for
           | free like Garmin [0], or _lease/rent_ the device on contract
           | and charge a monthly fee. Don't do both
           | 
           | An example of something similar is quip1's subscription, you
           | buy the toothbrush and subscribing to the refill plan gets
           | you a "lifetime"2 warranty
           | 
           | 1: getquip.com
           | 
           | 2: lifetime of the subscription
        
             | wjnc wrote:
             | What are your thought on risk / reward (more precise:
             | cashflow matching) with regards to physical products with a
             | software component? I think buy (hardware) + fee (software)
             | is the natural way of looking at things. Just as you pay
             | separately for car maintenance.
             | 
             | The buy-once, upgrade-years model puts too much risk on the
             | developer. Which in turn results in lousy experiences for
             | customers (dropped support for software, loss in value of
             | hardware on the second hand market). I actually bought an
             | iOS app twice because I found it crazy to be able to use
             | the same EUR5-app as a baby monitor for over a decade. That
             | is probably a single developer churning out features at a
             | low pace, but continuously for a big part of a career.
        
               | crusty wrote:
               | Buying a car and paying for maintenance is not analogous.
               | You buy the car - it works. Paying for maintenance is
               | just meant to keep it working for longer. You could buy a
               | car, not pay for maintenance and drive it until it
               | breaks. That's very different than buying something that
               | is completely non-functional without the subscription.
               | 
               | Also, aside from some very specific and new instances,
               | car maintenance has not been provided solely by the
               | manufacturer or authorized dealers.
        
           | TechDebtDevin wrote:
           | And there's more than a 50/50 chance that if you forget to
           | charge that $469 ring for a few days that it will brick.
           | 
           | Also Oura isn't all that accurate. For anyone who is
           | interested in the wearable space I HIGHLY reccomend The
           | Quantified Scientist[0] on Youtube. He does his best to
           | compare wearable accuracy with real medical devices or other
           | proven devices.
           | 
           | [0]: https://m.youtube.com/thequantifiedscientist
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | IMHO companies should not be allowed to sell anything unless
           | they will provide open hardware and open software and an
           | irrevocable license to use their tooling to construct more.
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | This is great! I tried to do this because I wanted to add an
       | indicator of my heart rate to Slack, so people would see if I'm
       | pissed off, but I could never get the data from the ring. I'm
       | very curious to see how the author does it.
        
         | daghamm wrote:
         | This has the unintentional effect of people knowing when you
         | fall asleep in meetings.
        
           | BarryMilo wrote:
           | Hope it stops updating after business hours!
        
       | blutack wrote:
       | From the GadgetBridge pull request[0] mentioned by dingensundso:
       | 
       | There's a nice site with a lot of the BLE API documented
       | (including commands) at https://colmi.puxtril.com/
       | 
       | 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41834048
        
       | fulafel wrote:
       | So you just scan for devices and then read? There's no
       | authorization involved, these just publish the readings
       | wirelessly for all interested?
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The ring has a very minimal interface. Apart from the sensors -
         | an accelerometer to count steps and two LEDs with photodiode to
         | get heart rate and blood oxygen - there is one status LED on
         | the inside to indicating charging. That's it. The ring is a
         | pure data collection device that basically can't be interacted
         | with without the app.
         | 
         | Maybe they could have required you to hit the ring on a surface
         | to initiate pairing mode. But as it stands the ring will pair
         | with any device that asks for it.
         | 
         | I'm looking forward to someone making a custom firmware for
         | these rings. There is some work in the linked ATC_RF03 project,
         | but I'm not sure if anyone is still working on it
        
           | tahnok wrote:
           | I started looking at this last night [1] since there's an
           | open SDK available (called SDK3) [2] but it seems like keil
           | is involved in compiling it and I'm out of my depth when it
           | comes to embedded stuff at the moment
           | 
           | 1. https://notes.tahnok.ca/blog/Smart+Ring+Reversing/2024-10-
           | 13... 2. https://gitee.com/BXMicro/SDK3
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | The basically-no-authorisation arrangement is somewhat common
         | for modern bluetooth devices.
         | 
         | It's problematic for things like keyboards used for entering
         | passwords - but if my next door neighbour wants to snoop on my
         | living room thermometer or someone wants to snoop on my heart
         | rate strap as I jog past their house? It doesn't seem to be
         | much of a problem, in practice.
         | 
         | In the bad old days of bluetooth, loads of devices without
         | screens would just hard code the pairing code to 000000 anyway.
         | So it wasn't adding much security anyway. Unlike internet-
         | connected devices, it's not exposed to a billion griefers from
         | around the globe at any given moment.
        
           | fulafel wrote:
           | Ongoing read of your neighbours, roommates, co-workers etc
           | health data from a distance including recent history is
           | getting your hands on sensitive personal data in addition to
           | health data. You can tell what they are doing, getting drunk
           | or having sex etc.
        
           | swiftcoder wrote:
           | ... doesn't the app set an encryption key after they pair?
           | 
           | The most similar device I've worked on is the various Oculus
           | devices. Which will also accept bluetooth connections from
           | absolutely everyone, but the first time you connect you store
           | an encryption key that is used to secure all subsequent
           | comms.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | If it did that then losing your phone, deleting the app's
             | storage or moving to a different phone without transferring
             | the app's storage would brick the smart ring.
             | 
             | Oculus decides are pretty big, I assume they have buttons
             | that allow you to recover from that. This ring doesn't.
        
               | swiftcoder wrote:
               | I mean, they have at least one button to trigger a
               | factory reset, yeah.
               | 
               | Even most input-less smart devices have a way to do that
               | though - like those ridiculous smartlight bulbs where you
               | have to flick the light switch on and off in morse code
               | to trigger the factory reset
        
       | anotheryou wrote:
       | It doesn't support raw accelerometer data yet, right? That would
       | be the only deliberate input method, which would be fun.
        
       | ModernMech wrote:
       | How is battery life with Python compared to C?
        
       | rkwz wrote:
       | How safe are these cheap devices? Should one be concerned about
       | battery exploding? Found some threads about this happening to
       | Oura rings:
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/ouraring/comments/s1fave/ring_batte...
        
         | tahnok wrote:
         | I'm not very concerned, the battery is extremely small and I
         | think it's potted in resin so it's not likely to get damaged
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | imagine showing a tiny ring with 200k of ram and half a meg of
       | flash, bluetooth and all those sensors for $20 to someone just 10
       | years ago
       | 
       | https://hackaday.com/2024/06/16/new-part-day-a-hackable-smar...
        
       | dyeje wrote:
       | Is there an official client?
        
         | navanchauhan wrote:
         | QRing
        
       | vitorbaptistaa wrote:
       | Does anyone know if any of these rings' accelerometers are
       | precise enough to detect falls? I am thinking of elderly patients
       | who refuse to use smartwatches or any "old-person-looking"
       | devices.
        
       | z3ugma wrote:
       | Lots of good additional hacking at
       | https://github.com/atc1441/ATC_RF03_Ring/issues/13
       | 
       | for what it's worth @tahnok I do this kind of (reverse)
       | engineering of BLE for medical-grade devices for my day job, I'm
       | keen to hack on this with y'all!
        
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