[HN Gopher] Turn your Android phone into a modern ham radio tran...
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Turn your Android phone into a modern ham radio transceiver
Author : thcipriani
Score : 161 points
Date : 2024-10-12 12:32 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kv4p.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kv4p.com)
| notadoc wrote:
| Coolest thing I've seen for a smartphone in a while, and
| definitely the coolest for Android
| RobCodeSlayer wrote:
| This would be amazing for backcountry communication - e.g when
| backpacking with a large group.
|
| Is there any way to enable this for iOS?
| capitainenemo wrote:
| I wonder how good the range would be. I was thinking that even
| if I didn't have the appropriate license, having something like
| this in a pocket on my backpack would at least give me one more
| signaling option in an emergency. I could deal with the fines
| later.
| cactacea wrote:
| Generally speaking, line of sight. Assuming you're in the US,
| the FCC wouldn't come after you for using this in an
| emergency situation unless you were being absolutely
| egregious about stomping on other emergency comms, even then
| I seriously doubt you'd see a fine.
|
| Having said that you're basically going to need enough
| knowledge to pass the test to make use of this anyway. Why
| not just take the test and be legal?
| capitainenemo wrote:
| Don't you have to register with your personal address in a
| public database?
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| just get something that transmit on one of the emergency
| frequencies:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency
|
| so long as you use it for an actual emergency, there are no
| issues
| _whiteCaps_ wrote:
| VHF / 2m is basically line of sight. But it will go for long
| distances. I've worked the repeater on the ISS with a 5W
| handheld radio and a 1/4 wave antenna.
| kanbankaren wrote:
| That range depends on the height of the antennaes(sender and
| receiver). I have been able to hear repeaters 150km away
| because it is on a hill.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| See https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ for a
| upgrade to a 2 meter HT that will make it into a repeater 100
| miles away under ordinary conditions and could go 300 miles
| under extraordinary conditions.
|
| You need to know the squelch keys for repeaters and get some
| practice, it never hurts to get to know the people who run
| the repeaters, check in on the nightly net, know who is
| listening. So it is worth getting the technician license,
| there is no Morse code, just a multiple choice test run by
| friendly hams.
|
| One rainy night I was talking to an amateur storm chaser who
| was reporting on conditions close to the inlet and asking why
| the repeater wasn't so busy during storms like back in the
| day there were lots of storm chasers and I told him that NOAA
| advises people not to drive into flooding prone regions so
| most of us don't do that because we don't want to become part
| of the emergency.
|
| Other times in the rain the air is silent but you know there
| is at least one ham monitoring who will call 911.
| sliken wrote:
| Might want to consider the meshtastic, something like a lilygo
| t-echo. A few advantages over the standard ham radio:
| * Nodes automatically forms a mesh * works with any
| android/IOS widget, simple text message like interface *
| store and forward means all nodes don't have to be online at
| the same time. * Cheap, no soldering, and no ham license
| required. * Can use phones GPS, makes it easy to track
| other nodes * Don't have to program in repeaters, every
| node can repeat.
| vvanders wrote:
| Meshtastic(Lora) also doesn't require a license since it's in
| the ISM bands.
|
| Lora also has really good FEC and other things that make it
| work incredibly well(at the cost of throughput). Honestly I
| wish we saw more things like that in the ham bands(other than
| FT8).
|
| There's a couple Lora radios out there that are USB serial
| based and can be controlled with AT commands that would let
| you so something similar if you want to build up from
| scratch.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| This isn't true, it is not exclusive to the ISM bands. You
| can run it on any band you choose so long as you have a
| license to do so. Case in point: the ham bands
| vvanders wrote:
| Sure, that's "technically" correct but most usage of Lora
| is going to be in ISM since that's where they are
| traditionally deployed. That doesn't require a license
| which can be a hurdle if you don't already have one.
|
| I've got a ham license so not a big deal for me but for
| those wanting to try radios without a huge investment a
| pair of $20 Lora AT serial radios are a great way to dip
| into digital radio.
| tzs wrote:
| Note that various ham bands have limitations on what
| types of emissions are allowed. For example some only
| allow RTTY and data, so no phone or image. And some allow
| phone or image but no data. Even if the type of
| information is allowed there might be technical
| restrictions prohibiting some forms of modulation.
|
| So before using something that was designed depending on
| some non-ham part of the regulations for its legality,
| such as part 18 (ISM) in the US, on a ham band I'd want
| to look into the details and make sure it is not doing
| something under that part but not allowed under the ham
| regulations.
| agiacalone wrote:
| Also, the ham bands _as a whole_ cannot be used for
| profit-motives or any financial gain. People often forget
| this rule. Not to mention the (kind of absurd, IMO) rule
| against any form of encryption.
| userbinator wrote:
| However, I don't believe there's a rule against
| steganography.
| threemux wrote:
| In the US, there certainly is. The rule doesn't mention
| encryption specifically, it just prohibits "encoding for
| the purpose of obscuring meaning". The intent is what
| matters not the method.
| DoctorOetker wrote:
| would oblivious transfer qualify as OK? if the sender
| provably doesn't know what's transmitted, will the law
| rule it a form of obscuring meaning?
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| You're thinking criminal court standards, like beyond a
| reasonable doubt for a conviction.
|
| It's a procedural thing. The FCC will tell you did it &
| tell you the penalties. Your options are zero.
| agiacalone wrote:
| Yes, the FCC would (theoretically) just revoke your
| license to prevent you from doing it again if they so
| wanted.
| userbinator wrote:
| Do they also prohibit sarcasm?
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Encryption is permitted for remote control of space borne
| systems.
|
| Repeaters may use any method to limit access and control
| to authorized users.
| agiacalone wrote:
| I forgot about that one use case. But it's not allowed
| for most practical purposes in the U.S. at least.
| sliken wrote:
| JS8call is pretty similar to FT8, but can do keyboard to
| keyboard chat. Not quite auto-mesh, but can store/forward
| through multiple other nodes.
| runjake wrote:
| I'd recommend something like a couple $25 Quansheng radios
| instead. More reliability, more range, less finicky, more
| durable and about the same size as this add-on.
|
| (For some reason the radios are showing as $30 right now)
|
| https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receivin...
| cactacea wrote:
| I own one of these, easily the worst radio I have. Fine for
| receive but please don't hit that transmit button.
| runjake wrote:
| Only N=2 but mine have worked _great_ for the 2 meter and
| FRS /GMRS bands, which is what one is probably going to use
| while in the back country.
|
| Definitely don't try 27 MHZ, or perhaps outside of the
| above bands at all.
|
| Are these Yaesu, Motorola, or Icom quality? No, but they're
| $25.
| transcriptase wrote:
| Yeah I have 4 that are great 2m/70cm, which is what the
| included antennas are optimized for. Even better with a
| cheap Nagoya antenna and non-stock firmware.
|
| Unfortunately people don't realize that even if you
| install a firmware that allows down to 11m, even
| connected to a $1200 base antenna the power output will
| be in the milliwatt range while throwing off on
| harmonics.
|
| There's also the case of hardware inconsistency and
| fakes. When I hook up 4 of the included antennas to my
| VNA there's pretty big variance, and I recently tested a
| fake Nagoya that was clearly tuned for air band and not
| 70cm/2m as advertised.
| stavros wrote:
| Why? What happens?
| agiacalone wrote:
| I have one too, and it gives off tons of spurious
| emissions (RF interference).
|
| I pretty much only use it for experimentation and
| receive.
| stavros wrote:
| Ah, ouch. I have two Baofengs as well, I think they're a
| bit better, but probably not too much better.
| kanbankaren wrote:
| Did you actually see the spurious emissions on a spectrum
| analyser?
|
| The old Baofengs had that problem, not Quansheng which
| are actually clean and the harmonics are within FCC
| specs.
| transcriptase wrote:
| Another issue is people were "testing" them using an
| RTLSDR which very easily gets overloaded and shows
| harmonics where there are none. Even my local FM station
| shows up on my SDR at frequencies I know they're not
| actually transmitting on.
| agiacalone wrote:
| I admit that I have not. But I have used it near other
| equipment and it causes interference. My Kenwood HT does
| not.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| Decent walkie-talkies are cheap. Cheap enough that I bought
| some for my kids to play with instead of a single channel
| garbage radio like I had as a kid. If you really want a cheap
| programmable radio Yaesu and BaoFeng are the brands most people
| go with.
| grendelt wrote:
| > This would be amazing for backcountry communication
|
| At 1W, you'd be better served with little FRS/GMRS radios.
| Better still, for less than the cost of building this yourself,
| you can buy ready-made a Baofeng UV-5R for under $20. The
| antenna is a little crummy, but you can buy that and _still_ be
| under the $30 build price. Further, the Baofeng isn't
| supporting a whole operating system so the battery will last
| much longer. I wouldn't want my "always-on" phone draining its
| battery until I need to transmit to someone. 1W is only going
| to be useful to hit repeaters in an urban environment - but
| because it's 2m (and not 70cm), it's even less likely to be all
| that useful beyond a neat/fun build.
| lormayna wrote:
| I always ask myself why no any cellphone producer is making a
| phone with 2m/70cm capabilities.
| RenThraysk wrote:
| Sim card radios exist.
|
| eg https://www.wouxun.com/radios/two_way_radio_kg-v98.aspx
| lormayna wrote:
| Yes, but think about having a mobile that has native
| integration with APRS or can make voice/packet radio or even
| DMR. It would be perfect for hiking or adventures. Even
| better with LORA.
|
| Probably the main issue is RF compatibility.
| RenThraysk wrote:
| LTE over satellite is going to be the solution, as all
| existing 4g phones can do it.
| sciencesama wrote:
| Do they need a simcard with an active plan or aNy simcard
| just works !!??
| grendelt wrote:
| I used to ask the same thing back when car stereos were all the
| rage --- I wondered why I couldn't get shortwave or SSB or
| Air/VHF reception and the answer lies in use-case. Yeah, you
| and I might eat up this super niche product, but the market on
| the whole would not. Just look at what electric car makers are
| doing with AM radio. They're saying "screw RFI problems, we'll
| not filter those and just remove AM reception from the car
| radio because who needs that?" The answer is a larger slice of
| the population than would want other radio services. Even Apple
| never enabled the FM receiver feature on their chips from
| Qualcomm. It's all about the time spend designing it, ensuring
| it doesn't cause issues with must-have features, is intuitive
| to access/use, _and_ aligns with buyer demands.
|
| With ham radio making up less than 1% of most countries'
| populations, the need just isn't there. (Most folks you talk to
| are doing good just to even be aware of ham radio, let alone
| actually be a ham.)
| jpm_sd wrote:
| Very neat project. How are you dealing with FCC certification?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Even in Germany, hams are allowed to build their own
| transceivers. I can't imagine the FCC being more strict than
| that.
| jrockway wrote:
| Yes, the whole point of having a ham license is the
| permission to build and use your own equipment.
|
| The compromise vs "buy some spectrum for 8 trillion dollars"
| is that you can't use ham radio for commercial (or musical)
| purposes.
| sliken wrote:
| Heh, ask 10 hams what the whole point of a ham license is
| and you'll get 10 different answers. I've heard "permission
| to build" before, but rarely.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| I'm an aspiring ham myself :D For me, I'm interested in
| emergency communications, others in the club are DXers...
| truly fascinating.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| As long as the end user assembles 51% of it, you don't need it.
| You self-attest that the device is in compliance. You also have
| to perform an "RF study" but there is no requirement for
| documentation on that.
| neilv wrote:
| I like speech recognition as a feature. Do any other handheld
| transceivers have this yet?
| leke wrote:
| Nice idea. It would be good to find an AliExpress supplier to
| ship the whole kit.
| rmason wrote:
| Long time ham. Never been that interested in 2 meters but I am
| ready to buy it! Such a clever idea, wonder why no one has ever
| thought of it before.
| cactacea wrote:
| http://www.mobilinkd.com/ is probably the closest pre-existing
| thing that is similar. I don't think this was lack of
| imagination, modules like the DRA818V make building a fully
| integrated unit a lot easier these days
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I had so much fun operating APRS through the space station
| with a car 2 meter radio and a moderate mast antenna in a
| terribly hilly spot but be able to see stations in the South
| Atlantic and Midwest states. Also the time I was on a 2 meter
| HT walking in the woods and heard the astronauts talking to
| hams. And the time the computer told me it was just about to
| be visible and went outdoors and the ISS was huge and bright,
| more an airliner than an asterism.
| avidiax wrote:
| https://www.hytera.com/en/product-new/lte-broadband/lte-radi...
|
| https://www.wouxun.com/radios/two_way_radio_kg-v98.aspx
|
| There are combination PoC (push-to-talk over cellular) + WiFi +
| VHF/UHF radios.
|
| I think the problem as it relates to HAM radio as a hobby, is
| that if you have cell signal and cell phone, usually any other
| radio is less effective.
|
| So while it is nice to use the interface/battery/CPU of a cell
| phone to drive a radio, it's superfluous if you have a cell
| signal. If you don't have a cell signal, usually having 5W for
| analog voice in an HT is much more important than having a
| special interface or digital modes.
| londons_explore wrote:
| > The radio simply plugs into the USB C port on your Android
| smartphone and transforms it into a fully-fledged handheld radio
| transceiver.
|
| When I saw the headline I was hoping someone had hacked the
| qualcomm modem and turned it into a software defined radio.
| grendelt wrote:
| > modern ham radio transceiver
|
| Well, let's just leave it at ham radio transceiver
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