[HN Gopher] Turn your Android phone into a modern ham radio tran...
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       Turn your Android phone into a modern ham radio transceiver
        
       Author : thcipriani
       Score  : 161 points
       Date   : 2024-10-12 12:32 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kv4p.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kv4p.com)
        
       | notadoc wrote:
       | Coolest thing I've seen for a smartphone in a while, and
       | definitely the coolest for Android
        
       | RobCodeSlayer wrote:
       | This would be amazing for backcountry communication - e.g when
       | backpacking with a large group.
       | 
       | Is there any way to enable this for iOS?
        
         | capitainenemo wrote:
         | I wonder how good the range would be. I was thinking that even
         | if I didn't have the appropriate license, having something like
         | this in a pocket on my backpack would at least give me one more
         | signaling option in an emergency. I could deal with the fines
         | later.
        
           | cactacea wrote:
           | Generally speaking, line of sight. Assuming you're in the US,
           | the FCC wouldn't come after you for using this in an
           | emergency situation unless you were being absolutely
           | egregious about stomping on other emergency comms, even then
           | I seriously doubt you'd see a fine.
           | 
           | Having said that you're basically going to need enough
           | knowledge to pass the test to make use of this anyway. Why
           | not just take the test and be legal?
        
             | capitainenemo wrote:
             | Don't you have to register with your personal address in a
             | public database?
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | just get something that transmit on one of the emergency
           | frequencies:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_emergency_frequency
           | 
           | so long as you use it for an actual emergency, there are no
           | issues
        
           | _whiteCaps_ wrote:
           | VHF / 2m is basically line of sight. But it will go for long
           | distances. I've worked the repeater on the ISS with a 5W
           | handheld radio and a 1/4 wave antenna.
        
           | kanbankaren wrote:
           | That range depends on the height of the antennaes(sender and
           | receiver). I have been able to hear repeaters 150km away
           | because it is on a hill.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | See https://www.n1fd.org/2019/03/23/tape-measure-yagi/ for a
           | upgrade to a 2 meter HT that will make it into a repeater 100
           | miles away under ordinary conditions and could go 300 miles
           | under extraordinary conditions.
           | 
           | You need to know the squelch keys for repeaters and get some
           | practice, it never hurts to get to know the people who run
           | the repeaters, check in on the nightly net, know who is
           | listening. So it is worth getting the technician license,
           | there is no Morse code, just a multiple choice test run by
           | friendly hams.
           | 
           | One rainy night I was talking to an amateur storm chaser who
           | was reporting on conditions close to the inlet and asking why
           | the repeater wasn't so busy during storms like back in the
           | day there were lots of storm chasers and I told him that NOAA
           | advises people not to drive into flooding prone regions so
           | most of us don't do that because we don't want to become part
           | of the emergency.
           | 
           | Other times in the rain the air is silent but you know there
           | is at least one ham monitoring who will call 911.
        
         | sliken wrote:
         | Might want to consider the meshtastic, something like a lilygo
         | t-echo. A few advantages over the standard ham radio:
         | * Nodes automatically forms a mesh       * works with any
         | android/IOS widget, simple text message like interface       *
         | store and forward means all nodes don't have to be online at
         | the same time.       * Cheap, no soldering, and no ham license
         | required.       * Can use phones GPS, makes it easy to track
         | other nodes       * Don't have to program in repeaters, every
         | node can repeat.
        
           | vvanders wrote:
           | Meshtastic(Lora) also doesn't require a license since it's in
           | the ISM bands.
           | 
           | Lora also has really good FEC and other things that make it
           | work incredibly well(at the cost of throughput). Honestly I
           | wish we saw more things like that in the ham bands(other than
           | FT8).
           | 
           | There's a couple Lora radios out there that are USB serial
           | based and can be controlled with AT commands that would let
           | you so something similar if you want to build up from
           | scratch.
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | This isn't true, it is not exclusive to the ISM bands. You
             | can run it on any band you choose so long as you have a
             | license to do so. Case in point: the ham bands
        
               | vvanders wrote:
               | Sure, that's "technically" correct but most usage of Lora
               | is going to be in ISM since that's where they are
               | traditionally deployed. That doesn't require a license
               | which can be a hurdle if you don't already have one.
               | 
               | I've got a ham license so not a big deal for me but for
               | those wanting to try radios without a huge investment a
               | pair of $20 Lora AT serial radios are a great way to dip
               | into digital radio.
        
               | tzs wrote:
               | Note that various ham bands have limitations on what
               | types of emissions are allowed. For example some only
               | allow RTTY and data, so no phone or image. And some allow
               | phone or image but no data. Even if the type of
               | information is allowed there might be technical
               | restrictions prohibiting some forms of modulation.
               | 
               | So before using something that was designed depending on
               | some non-ham part of the regulations for its legality,
               | such as part 18 (ISM) in the US, on a ham band I'd want
               | to look into the details and make sure it is not doing
               | something under that part but not allowed under the ham
               | regulations.
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | Also, the ham bands _as a whole_ cannot be used for
               | profit-motives or any financial gain. People often forget
               | this rule. Not to mention the (kind of absurd, IMO) rule
               | against any form of encryption.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | However, I don't believe there's a rule against
               | steganography.
        
               | threemux wrote:
               | In the US, there certainly is. The rule doesn't mention
               | encryption specifically, it just prohibits "encoding for
               | the purpose of obscuring meaning". The intent is what
               | matters not the method.
        
               | DoctorOetker wrote:
               | would oblivious transfer qualify as OK? if the sender
               | provably doesn't know what's transmitted, will the law
               | rule it a form of obscuring meaning?
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | You're thinking criminal court standards, like beyond a
               | reasonable doubt for a conviction.
               | 
               | It's a procedural thing. The FCC will tell you did it &
               | tell you the penalties. Your options are zero.
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | Yes, the FCC would (theoretically) just revoke your
               | license to prevent you from doing it again if they so
               | wanted.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | Do they also prohibit sarcasm?
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | Encryption is permitted for remote control of space borne
               | systems.
               | 
               | Repeaters may use any method to limit access and control
               | to authorized users.
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | I forgot about that one use case. But it's not allowed
               | for most practical purposes in the U.S. at least.
        
             | sliken wrote:
             | JS8call is pretty similar to FT8, but can do keyboard to
             | keyboard chat. Not quite auto-mesh, but can store/forward
             | through multiple other nodes.
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | I'd recommend something like a couple $25 Quansheng radios
         | instead. More reliability, more range, less finicky, more
         | durable and about the same size as this add-on.
         | 
         | (For some reason the radios are showing as $30 right now)
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/QUANSHENG-200Three-Frequency-Receivin...
        
           | cactacea wrote:
           | I own one of these, easily the worst radio I have. Fine for
           | receive but please don't hit that transmit button.
        
             | runjake wrote:
             | Only N=2 but mine have worked _great_ for the 2 meter and
             | FRS /GMRS bands, which is what one is probably going to use
             | while in the back country.
             | 
             | Definitely don't try 27 MHZ, or perhaps outside of the
             | above bands at all.
             | 
             | Are these Yaesu, Motorola, or Icom quality? No, but they're
             | $25.
        
               | transcriptase wrote:
               | Yeah I have 4 that are great 2m/70cm, which is what the
               | included antennas are optimized for. Even better with a
               | cheap Nagoya antenna and non-stock firmware.
               | 
               | Unfortunately people don't realize that even if you
               | install a firmware that allows down to 11m, even
               | connected to a $1200 base antenna the power output will
               | be in the milliwatt range while throwing off on
               | harmonics.
               | 
               | There's also the case of hardware inconsistency and
               | fakes. When I hook up 4 of the included antennas to my
               | VNA there's pretty big variance, and I recently tested a
               | fake Nagoya that was clearly tuned for air band and not
               | 70cm/2m as advertised.
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | Why? What happens?
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | I have one too, and it gives off tons of spurious
               | emissions (RF interference).
               | 
               | I pretty much only use it for experimentation and
               | receive.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | Ah, ouch. I have two Baofengs as well, I think they're a
               | bit better, but probably not too much better.
        
               | kanbankaren wrote:
               | Did you actually see the spurious emissions on a spectrum
               | analyser?
               | 
               | The old Baofengs had that problem, not Quansheng which
               | are actually clean and the harmonics are within FCC
               | specs.
        
               | transcriptase wrote:
               | Another issue is people were "testing" them using an
               | RTLSDR which very easily gets overloaded and shows
               | harmonics where there are none. Even my local FM station
               | shows up on my SDR at frequencies I know they're not
               | actually transmitting on.
        
               | agiacalone wrote:
               | I admit that I have not. But I have used it near other
               | equipment and it causes interference. My Kenwood HT does
               | not.
        
         | tastyfreeze wrote:
         | Decent walkie-talkies are cheap. Cheap enough that I bought
         | some for my kids to play with instead of a single channel
         | garbage radio like I had as a kid. If you really want a cheap
         | programmable radio Yaesu and BaoFeng are the brands most people
         | go with.
        
         | grendelt wrote:
         | > This would be amazing for backcountry communication
         | 
         | At 1W, you'd be better served with little FRS/GMRS radios.
         | Better still, for less than the cost of building this yourself,
         | you can buy ready-made a Baofeng UV-5R for under $20. The
         | antenna is a little crummy, but you can buy that and _still_ be
         | under the $30 build price. Further, the Baofeng isn't
         | supporting a whole operating system so the battery will last
         | much longer. I wouldn't want my "always-on" phone draining its
         | battery until I need to transmit to someone. 1W is only going
         | to be useful to hit repeaters in an urban environment - but
         | because it's 2m (and not 70cm), it's even less likely to be all
         | that useful beyond a neat/fun build.
        
       | lormayna wrote:
       | I always ask myself why no any cellphone producer is making a
       | phone with 2m/70cm capabilities.
        
         | RenThraysk wrote:
         | Sim card radios exist.
         | 
         | eg https://www.wouxun.com/radios/two_way_radio_kg-v98.aspx
        
           | lormayna wrote:
           | Yes, but think about having a mobile that has native
           | integration with APRS or can make voice/packet radio or even
           | DMR. It would be perfect for hiking or adventures. Even
           | better with LORA.
           | 
           | Probably the main issue is RF compatibility.
        
             | RenThraysk wrote:
             | LTE over satellite is going to be the solution, as all
             | existing 4g phones can do it.
        
           | sciencesama wrote:
           | Do they need a simcard with an active plan or aNy simcard
           | just works !!??
        
         | grendelt wrote:
         | I used to ask the same thing back when car stereos were all the
         | rage --- I wondered why I couldn't get shortwave or SSB or
         | Air/VHF reception and the answer lies in use-case. Yeah, you
         | and I might eat up this super niche product, but the market on
         | the whole would not. Just look at what electric car makers are
         | doing with AM radio. They're saying "screw RFI problems, we'll
         | not filter those and just remove AM reception from the car
         | radio because who needs that?" The answer is a larger slice of
         | the population than would want other radio services. Even Apple
         | never enabled the FM receiver feature on their chips from
         | Qualcomm. It's all about the time spend designing it, ensuring
         | it doesn't cause issues with must-have features, is intuitive
         | to access/use, _and_ aligns with buyer demands.
         | 
         | With ham radio making up less than 1% of most countries'
         | populations, the need just isn't there. (Most folks you talk to
         | are doing good just to even be aware of ham radio, let alone
         | actually be a ham.)
        
       | jpm_sd wrote:
       | Very neat project. How are you dealing with FCC certification?
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | Even in Germany, hams are allowed to build their own
         | transceivers. I can't imagine the FCC being more strict than
         | that.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | Yes, the whole point of having a ham license is the
           | permission to build and use your own equipment.
           | 
           | The compromise vs "buy some spectrum for 8 trillion dollars"
           | is that you can't use ham radio for commercial (or musical)
           | purposes.
        
             | sliken wrote:
             | Heh, ask 10 hams what the whole point of a ham license is
             | and you'll get 10 different answers. I've heard "permission
             | to build" before, but rarely.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | I'm an aspiring ham myself :D For me, I'm interested in
               | emergency communications, others in the club are DXers...
               | truly fascinating.
        
         | sidewndr46 wrote:
         | As long as the end user assembles 51% of it, you don't need it.
         | You self-attest that the device is in compliance. You also have
         | to perform an "RF study" but there is no requirement for
         | documentation on that.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | I like speech recognition as a feature. Do any other handheld
       | transceivers have this yet?
        
       | leke wrote:
       | Nice idea. It would be good to find an AliExpress supplier to
       | ship the whole kit.
        
       | rmason wrote:
       | Long time ham. Never been that interested in 2 meters but I am
       | ready to buy it! Such a clever idea, wonder why no one has ever
       | thought of it before.
        
         | cactacea wrote:
         | http://www.mobilinkd.com/ is probably the closest pre-existing
         | thing that is similar. I don't think this was lack of
         | imagination, modules like the DRA818V make building a fully
         | integrated unit a lot easier these days
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | I had so much fun operating APRS through the space station
           | with a car 2 meter radio and a moderate mast antenna in a
           | terribly hilly spot but be able to see stations in the South
           | Atlantic and Midwest states. Also the time I was on a 2 meter
           | HT walking in the woods and heard the astronauts talking to
           | hams. And the time the computer told me it was just about to
           | be visible and went outdoors and the ISS was huge and bright,
           | more an airliner than an asterism.
        
         | avidiax wrote:
         | https://www.hytera.com/en/product-new/lte-broadband/lte-radi...
         | 
         | https://www.wouxun.com/radios/two_way_radio_kg-v98.aspx
         | 
         | There are combination PoC (push-to-talk over cellular) + WiFi +
         | VHF/UHF radios.
         | 
         | I think the problem as it relates to HAM radio as a hobby, is
         | that if you have cell signal and cell phone, usually any other
         | radio is less effective.
         | 
         | So while it is nice to use the interface/battery/CPU of a cell
         | phone to drive a radio, it's superfluous if you have a cell
         | signal. If you don't have a cell signal, usually having 5W for
         | analog voice in an HT is much more important than having a
         | special interface or digital modes.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | > The radio simply plugs into the USB C port on your Android
       | smartphone and transforms it into a fully-fledged handheld radio
       | transceiver.
       | 
       | When I saw the headline I was hoping someone had hacked the
       | qualcomm modem and turned it into a software defined radio.
        
       | grendelt wrote:
       | > modern ham radio transceiver
       | 
       | Well, let's just leave it at ham radio transceiver
        
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