[HN Gopher] DARPA Thinks Walls of Oysters Could Protect Shores A...
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DARPA Thinks Walls of Oysters Could Protect Shores Against
Hurricanes
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 73 points
Date : 2024-10-13 15:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| If you're in New York, the Billion Oyster Project [1] throws an
| annual all-you-can-eat oyster fundraiser every September that is
| among my favourite events in the city [1]. (The shells are used
| as substrate for new reefs.)
|
| [1] https://www.billionoysterproject.org/
| tonetegeatinst wrote:
| Anyone got an archive link of this?
| 23B1 wrote:
| https://archive.is/iI1yt
|
| Also the news here is that DARPA is interested in this, not that
| oysters protect shorelines - this has been known for some time.
| Thinking about climate change through the (slightly more
| practical) lens of national defense is a smart approach, perhaps
| it will bypass a lot of the B.S. involved in the discussion.
| azinman2 wrote:
| You would think, except when certain people come into power and
| appoint figure heads who go and scrub such things. It's not
| immune.
| 23B1 wrote:
| That's not really the case inside the defense-industrial
| complex, for better or worse.
| azinman2 wrote:
| Not private world, public military. Under the previous
| admin, in 2017 climate change was removed from the National
| Security Strategy. Budget can be affected, etc.
| toast0 wrote:
| Army Corps of Engineers does a lot of work on protecting
| communities from flooding (and restoration afterwards), so this
| is in DARPAs baliwick. If Oyster walls are as effective as
| concrete seawalls, it should be a big improvement where they
| can be used, because concrete seawalls tend to move tidal
| problems rather than resolve them, and they also tend to have
| negative impacts on local ecology.
| Joel_Mckay wrote:
| Manufactured controversy on climate-change is just a side-
| effect of bad communication.
|
| 1. The whole world needs to bring petroleum burn rates down to
| sustainable levels (China and the USA will need to make the
| right choice for their grandchildren.) This doesn't mean
| complete elimination of petroleum fuels or chemical mining
| operations. Note, investors that promulgate sustainable
| management will cost everyone their job are just manipulative
| liars, and environmentalists that refuse to acknowledge there
| is a scientifically sound balance are just as naively
| idealistic.
|
| 2. There is a complex physics model that describes what's
| happening. The only controversial counterarguments are
| generally from non-scientific dubious communities with
| questionable political motives.
|
| 3. No one wants to admit the earth will return to normal about
| 50 000 years after human full/partial extinction events.
| Sustainable energy policy is a national security issue, as we
| will be living like cavemen if a cascade environmental change
| event hits us early.
|
| 4. The profits made from sustainable energy policy will enrich
| communities that make the right call. Or alternately
| desperation driven hostilities await those that choose to give
| their children a wasteland.
|
| One can invest in technology that creates wealth, or prepare
| for endless conflict. As a people, we share a common future
| with the consequences from decisions all people have chosen
| today.
|
| Be kind to yourselves, and have a fantastic day =3
| wernerb wrote:
| In the Netherlands we are renewing our "Afsluitdijk" which is a
| dyke that now gets 75000 special concrete blocks specifically
| designed to protect against wave s similarly as proposed here.
|
| https://www.dutchnews.nl/2018/04/75000-massive-concrete-bloc...
| aqme28 wrote:
| While useful, it's my impression that the storm surge is the most
| dangerous part of a hurricane, and oysters unfortunately don't do
| much about that.
| soulofmischief wrote:
| Do you live in an area that gets hurricanes? I grew up in the
| gulf and while storm surge can be seriously damaging, it's not
| the _most_ dangerous part.
|
| I've been through Katrina, Gustav, Isaac and more and witnessed
| incredible damage from wind, rain and auxiliary tornadoes
| caused by the storm. I've seen wind pick up _massive_ metal
| structures right in front of me, ball them up and toss them
| into the sky until they 're just a speck on the horizon. I've
| woken up to my entire neighborhood missing parts of their roof.
| I nearly got taken out by a large pine tree. I've seen trees
| crush cars, boats, houses, you name it. Helene just ravaged
| several inland states and many are still without power or
| access to basic resources.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > Do you live in an area that gets hurricanes?
|
| Yes. I've lived on FL's gulf coast for over 30 years.
|
| > while storm surge can be seriously damaging, it's not the
| most dangerous part.
|
| Storm surge is the leading cause of deaths from hurricanes.
| Rain-induced flooding is second.
|
| ref: https://www.weather.gov/wrn/hurricane-hazards
|
| > I've been through Katrina, Gustav, Isaac and more...
|
| I've been thru two in the last three weeks. Past that I'm not
| sure, dozens certainly. I've also witnessed other impact
| areas during 3 decades of organized storm relief - most
| recently yesterday.
|
| > ...and witnessed incredible damage from wind, rain and
| auxiliary tornadoes caused by the storm...[notes dramatic
| examples of damage to things]
|
| I'm trying to pin down what you mean by " _most_ dangerous ".
| It doesn't seem tied to number of lives lost or the number of
| structures damaged. Those are from surge and flooding.
|
| The damage you describe seems like it would be photographic
| and striking. Is that what you mean my most dangerous?
| stouset wrote:
| In the article they explicitly call out that this is intended
| to protect against storm surges.
| patmorgan23 wrote:
| Hurricanes present a triple threat. In no particular order they
| are 1) Storm surge, 2) insanely high winds, 3) torrential down
| pour and the resulting flash flooding.
|
| Immediately along the coast the storm surge is probably the
| most destructive as it's a wall of water that hits and then
| pulls everything out to sea, but once you get a few hundred
| feet inland, or some elevation, it's not really a problem.
|
| Hurricane wind speeds are comparable to tornado wind speeds,
| except the storms are so much bigger. They will throw
| projectile debris at windows, and then they break the resulting
| change in pressure will blow out and rip the roof of a home
| clean off.
|
| Then the incredible amount of rain they generate can create
| devastating flooding, and this can happen hundreds of miles
| from the coast(this is what happens in Asheville, North
| Carolina, and the specific geography made the flooding worse
| and harder to recover from since Asheville is a mountain valley
| river town)
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > but once you get a few hundred feet inland, or some
| elevation, [surge is] not really a problem.
|
| [more clarification than correction] Along the US gulf coast,
| surge will travel miles inland thru waterways and drainage
| basins. When it's over, many places drain right away while
| some can take weeks.
|
| Depending on the storm, an area can get multiple surges.
|
| > Hurricane wind speeds are comparable to tornado wind
| speeds, except the storms are so much bigger.
|
| [same] Inland wind risk is closely tied to wind field size
| and relative position to the eye's direction of travel. We're
| 30 min inland from the gulf. Every factor about Milton (@36h
| out) was a factor in our risk calc. With Helene, we didn't
| have to calc anything. But that weekend, we drove the 30 min
| to help clean/gut houses on the coast.
|
| And to support your synopsis, I describe cat 4/5 landfalls as
| x hour tornadoes.
|
| > Then the incredible amount of rain they generate can create
| devastating flooding, and this can happen hundreds of miles
| from the coast
|
| In the mid 90s we did relief in Athens Ga (from Alberto I
| think). Storm remnants parked on the GA/AL border for 2
| weeks. Six hundred dams broke and the river thru town became
| over a mile wide. We were mucking out a church on the top of
| a hill. A road ran from the church, down the long hill to the
| river. The road was lined with homes that had been fully
| submerged for 2 weeks.
| tinix wrote:
| Navy sinks old concrete carriers in the Gulf of Mexico already,
| for this exact reason (artificial reef). i remember this
| happening at least 20+ years ago... it's not as new novel idea.
| Florida also uses shell material as aggregate in concrete
| already.
| a_shovel wrote:
| Oysters used to be so abundant they were a poor people's food.
| It's hard to understand how overfishing, overhunting, and habitat
| destruction have destroyed ecosystems.
|
| Some people think we can just pretend we're not part of an
| ecosystem if we pour enough concrete. It doesn't work, it just
| makes everything worse. A damaged ecosystem is not just
| unpleasant but physically dangerous to us. A flooded coastal base
| will soon be the least of our concerns. We need to fix damaged
| ecosystems and replace destroyed ones
| heisenzombie wrote:
| In my local area it was mussels that underpinned (kind of
| literally) the marine ecosystem. This is the interesting and
| sad story:
|
| https://www.reviveourgulf.org.nz/why/
| Terr_ wrote:
| [delayed]
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| It's just occurring to me now that some of the more beautiful
| beaches I know of in my area, with natural sand deposits that
| aren't suffering from erosion, are also oyster beds. At low tide
| the beds are exposed. They extend another 20 meters out to the
| ocean from where they're visible, give or take a few meters.
|
| Maybe that's coincidence. There are also immense beaches in
| places like tofino where no such beds exist, but the beaches are
| huge and sandy without particularly evident erosion. They are the
| work of much larger tidal and current systems though, so maybe a
| different beast altogether.
|
| Oysters are so much fun to harvest with kids. Throw on a mask and
| snorkel, grab a catch bag, and swim around looking for the
| perfect size for cooking over a fire on a rack. Kids are awesome
| at it. You can feed half a dozen people easily with half an hour
| in the water. It's a bonus if there's sea asparagus nearby. Bring
| some lemons and corn on the cob or something similar and it makes
| for an incredible evening. My best memories of this are on Cortes
| Island in BC. There are some magnificent oyster beds all over
| that island, but relatively few (especially that are safe to eat)
| here in Victoria.
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(page generated 2024-10-13 22:01 UTC)