[HN Gopher] PayPal (USA) will automatically share data about you...
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       PayPal (USA) will automatically share data about you to
       participating stores
        
       Author : xyst
       Score  : 132 points
       Date   : 2024-10-12 20:19 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.paypal.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.paypal.com)
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Automatic data sharing policy to take effect on November 27,
       | 2024. If you do not want PP to share your data with
       | "participating stores", you need to "opt out".
       | 
       | Per e-mail sent regarding this policy update: "You can opt out of
       | this at any time in your profile settings under "Data and
       | Privacy."
        
         | thwarted wrote:
         | Just logging in now, for the first time in years, I found two
         | options that seem relevant.
         | 
         | For the first one: it presented that I had given permission to
         | "paypal shopping" to share my identity. I removed that
         | permission. This may be the automatically added permission that
         | I had to opt out of. This was in a list of discrete
         | permissions, or apparently so, since there was only one entry,
         | but it could be removed by clicking on a trashcan icon.
         | 
         | For the second one, it was explicitly described with words like
         | "share your info". This was a checkbox-slider, and it was
         | already set to "off".
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | I didn't revoke the "PayPal shopping" permission. But now I
           | will.
           | 
           | Wonder if PP system automatically moves that slider to off if
           | you revoke the "PayPal Shopping" permission. I honestly don't
           | remember granting that explicitly. Then again, I have only
           | used PP for rare occasions
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | Also, maybe it defaults to off if you reside in USA and live
           | in one of these states:
           | 
           | > Information gathered about you after the effective date of
           | our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be
           | shared with participating stores where you shop, unless you
           | live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont
        
         | TavsiE9s wrote:
         | Any indication on _which_ setting under "Data and Privacy"?
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | One thing I realized. This appears to be a change in their
           | privacy policy for _US_ PayPal. If you are not in USA (ie,
           | Canada), then it likely won't be there as it's not rolling
           | out to you.
           | 
           | For me: I opened the app, navigated to Profile > "Data and
           | privacy" > "Personalized shopping" (under "Manage shared
           | info" header) > toggle off "Let us share products, offers,
           | and rewards you might like with participating stores"
           | 
           | Haven't checked on paypal.com
        
         | _huayra_ wrote:
         | Here is the precise page, for anyone who wants to easily do it
         | and amortize my settings perusing:
         | https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda...
        
           | RustyRussell wrote:
           | Don't see anything relevant in Australia...
        
       | wintermutestwin wrote:
       | The whole reason why I use paypal for some purchases is to keep
       | the vendor from knowing my PII.
       | 
       | Paypal Enshitification level = 11
        
         | tdeck wrote:
         | Doesn't the vendor get your name and address when paying
         | through PayPal?
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | S/he probably meant payment information as credit card
           | number, cvv etc. And there was no way before this for
           | merchant X to know what Alice or Bob bought from merchant Y.
        
           | n_plus_1_acc wrote:
           | And E-Mail and phone number afair.
        
         | AStonesThrow wrote:
         | PayPal already shares enough contact info for the purpose of
         | shipping when I order physical goods.
         | 
         | This new sharing appears to consist of marketing data on items
         | you shop for, not necessarily PII, unless you consider your
         | inseam to be classified top secret.
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | What PayPal lists in the Privacy Policy for the US is only an
           | example. I interpreted the change as "PayPal collects any
           | number of information on you. Gives you seemingly innocuous
           | data such as inseam. But in reality, we may collect political
           | affiliation, contacts, salary information, and share that
           | with retailers that want our data"
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | Is privacy.com an option for you? Disposable virtual payment
         | card numbers and whatnot.
        
           | dynm wrote:
           | Strongly recommend not using privacy.com. It's full of dark
           | patterns and has lots of crazy behaviors like randomly
           | locking your account and demanding good old picture of you
           | with photo ID. For a _privacy_ focused service, this is
           | hilarious.
        
       | autoexec wrote:
       | PayPal has always been a disaster. There have been so many
       | stories of people having their accounts frozen for long periods
       | of time while whatever passes for "customer service" at PayPal
       | jerked them around or outright ignored them that I stopped using
       | PayPal a very long time ago and I've never once regretted it.
       | 
       | I see that paypalsucks.com is gone now. Not sure when that
       | happened (archive.org is down too), but really, people have had
       | more than enough warning about what a shit company PayPal is, so
       | anyone continuing to get screwed over by them now is pretty much
       | asking for it.
        
       | noname120 wrote:
       | Is it only in the US? My PayPal account is from Switzerland. I
       | haven't received an email and the option doesn't appear in "Data
       | and Privacy" either.
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | yes - appears to be only US, for now.
         | 
         | edit: updated title to add (USA)
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | US PayPal is not a bank. Other incarnations are and will be
           | subject to the relevant banking regulations.
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | Ha, I forgot about that. The US Freedom is really shiny
             | over at Paypal, a bank free to not follow banking
             | regulations, and no pesky liberal privacy, except in
             | California.
        
       | nurtbo wrote:
       | Privacy laws actually work! Let's pass more of them.
       | 
       | > Information gathered about you after the effective date of our
       | updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with
       | participating stores where you shop, *unless you live in
       | California, North Dakota, or Vermont.* For PayPal customers in
       | California, North Dakota, or Vermont, we'll only share your
       | information with those merchants if you tell us to do so
        
         | darknavi wrote:
         | This is so open faced and gross. It reminds of someone talking
         | about getting paid minimum wage. If you get paid minimum wage,
         | what your employer is saying is, "I would pay you less if I was
         | legally allowed to do so."
         | 
         | It also reminds me of State Farm's (auto/home insurance in the
         | US) website with this link at the bottom:
         | 
         | > Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information (CA residents
         | only)
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | Don't get mad, get active. Keep cranking on the policy
           | ratchet, progress and success is clearly possible.
        
           | mrkramer wrote:
           | That's what Disqus has at the bottom of every of their
           | comments section[0]. I find it ridiculous.
           | 
           | [0] https://electricdusk.com/img/disqus-gdpr-violation-
           | marketing...
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | In 1999 the show writers of the West Wing accurately predicated
         | this in an episode about the selection of a Supreme Court
         | Judge:
         | 
         | "It's not just about abortion, it's about the next 20 years. In
         | the '20s and '30s it was the role of government. '50s and '60s
         | it was civil rights. The next two decades are going to be
         | privacy. I'm talking about the Internet. I'm talking about cell
         | phones. I'm talking about health records and who's gay and
         | who's not. And moreover, in a country born on the will to be
         | free, what could be more fundamental than this?"
         | 
         | - Sam Seaborn (Rob Lowe) West Wing (ep: The Short List) 1999
         | 
         | - We've seen massive breaches of EMR systems
         | 
         | - We've seen massive breeahes from dating apps (Grindr) outing
         | Gay individuals
         | 
         | - None of these entities faced significant consequences for
         | their actions and continue to operate with large amounts of
         | profit.
         | 
         | - 2 years after this episode the Patriot Act was passed. We've
         | failed on privacy so far.
        
           | SturgeonsLaw wrote:
           | Imagine if the real government was as competent and good
           | faith as the West Wing government
        
       | levocardia wrote:
       | I've gotten the sense that PayPal is circling the drain lately.
       | Whenever I log on (which is rare) I'm bombarded by modals and
       | banners offering payment plans, digital coupons, etc. When I
       | receive money, there's lots of clever UI design that's trying to
       | trick me into transferring it instantly (for a fee) or keeping it
       | in PayPal, as opposed to withdrawing it to my bank account. I
       | suppose this is just one more sign the company is in financial
       | trouble.
        
         | homebrewer wrote:
         | Lately? It's been that way for decades.
         | 
         | I'll add one more to your list: since many things are paid in
         | USD, and most of us live outside the US, your payment goes
         | through a currency conversion. Up until a few years ago it was
         | possible to configure PayPal to let your bank convert using
         | bank's own rates, although it was hidden behind dark UI
         | patterns. Then they removed it and now force you to run
         | conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse
         | than any bank I've ever used. This was about the time I stopped
         | using PayPal completely, so I can't say exactly how much of a
         | price hike this caused, but it's probably around 10%.
        
       | zaptrem wrote:
       | > No matter where you live, you'll always be able to exercise
       | your right to opt out of this data sharing by updating your
       | preference settings in your account under "Data and Privacy."
       | 
       | There is currently no opt out button or switch on this page on
       | their website when signed in through either my personal or
       | business account.
       | 
       | Edit: Someone further down direct linked to it here
       | https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda...
       | 
       | No idea how they got this screen, as when I click back it gives
       | me the same menu I saw before where this option doesn't exist and
       | the website design is different.
        
       | grahamj wrote:
       | Glad I deleted my account some time ago
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-12 23:00 UTC)