[HN Gopher] Steam's new disclaimer reminds everyone that you don...
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       Steam's new disclaimer reminds everyone that you don't own your
       games
        
       Author : doener
       Score  : 51 points
       Date   : 2024-10-12 20:19 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.pcgamer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.pcgamer.com)
        
       | dp-hackernews wrote:
       | WTF DO you own - just a transaction entry?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | You own a "license" to play the game which they can revoke
         | whenever they want for any or no reason.
        
         | wmf wrote:
         | No, you don't even own that; if your account is disabled for
         | any reason you will lose everything. You don't own anything.
        
       | mendym wrote:
       | Does GOG games have built-in way to launch a windows game via
       | proton?
       | 
       | Because currently my main reason for using steam is the easy
       | linux installation
        
         | Frenchgeek wrote:
         | I use Lutris for that, a bit clunky (especially updating games)
         | but it does work.
        
         | LocutusOfBorges wrote:
         | Heroic is reasonably seamless - it integrates with GOG and your
         | Steam library, and by extension Proton. Pretty popular among
         | Steam Deck users.
         | 
         | https://heroicgameslauncher.com/
        
           | airstrike wrote:
           | I just want to play HoMM3 on Mac OS... maybe one day
        
             | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
             | Oh man, I just showed my kid homm3 with HD mod. I dunno
             | what are VM options exist on Mac OS, but it may be the way.
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | See the other two posts for recommendations, but be aware that
         | neither of the options listed is at the level of experience
         | Steam may have spoiled us with. My last try was 4 or 5 months
         | ago and I ended up just going with a VM.
        
         | righthand wrote:
         | Lutris the popular option. Heroic is another but is a chromium
         | app fyi.
        
       | pseudosaid wrote:
       | this has always been the case. ownership has predominately been a
       | license to a key, regardless of your offline installer or cd.
        
         | Dibby053 wrote:
         | This goes a step further than a typical CD key because the
         | license is contingent on one's Steam account. If you lose your
         | Steam account you lose all your licenses.
         | 
         | >The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license
         | confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To
         | make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam
         | Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client
         | and maintaining a connection to the Internet. [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement#2
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | It used to be written on the disk pack in the back of software
       | manuals: "THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. By opening this
       | packet you agree to be bound by the terms of the End User License
       | Agreement." Which was usually written in very "rules-for-thee-
       | but-not-for-me" terms that bound you, the end user, and benefited
       | the publisher. You couldn't resell it, you couldn't reverse-
       | engineer or decompile it, you couldn't do anything but run it on
       | one (1) computer for the specific purpose for which it was
       | written. Some EULAs even stipulated license expiry terms; the one
       | for dBASE III demanded that you return the software disks and
       | other materials after a period of fifty (50) years from the date
       | of purchase.
       | 
       | You've never _owned_ the proprietary software you 've used. You
       | only used it as long as the whim of the copyright owner allowed
       | it (and/or they couldn't enforce it). This is why Stallman chose
       | twenty-three individuals to establish Free Software Zion several
       | cycles ago.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | But when you owned a disc you could use offline, they were
         | never going to come to your home and take it. It was
         | effectively yours. Steam normalized a world where that license
         | revocation could actually be invoked and enforced from afar.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | I lot of those terms were thrown at the wall to see if they
         | stuck, though. There's the First Sale doctrine for instance. If
         | you actually signed a contract, all bets are off, but if you
         | just bought a shrink-wrap, a lot of these terms were make-
         | believe.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | Vernor v. Autodesk says no.
        
             | actionfromafar wrote:
             | Ouch, that's sad. But I must say I don't quite understand
             | the implications of that ruling. Also, there are many
             | jurisdictions, and the shopping list of terms on shrink-
             | wrap can't possibly hold in all of them..
        
       | apatheticonion wrote:
       | Hey EU, we need you again...
        
       | a1o wrote:
       | This has always been the case and is the case in anything digital
       | game related.
        
         | a3w wrote:
         | No, steam is the worst of both worlds of digital selling: It is
         | a mandatory subscription service, on top, to access your games,
         | not just a one time purchase.
        
           | dialup_sounds wrote:
           | How much is a Steam subscription?
        
           | ApolloFortyNine wrote:
           | ... Do you think steam is a mandatory subscription service?
        
             | Maxatar wrote:
             | The subscription is mandatory to play your games.
        
               | inexcf wrote:
               | What subscription? And if anything it is only necessary
               | for games with Steam DRM.
        
           | wizzwizz4 wrote:
           | I'm sure there are some services that work like this
           | (whichever console has an online service called "Live" comes
           | to mind), but Steam doesn't appear to - unless there's some
           | fine print I've forgotten.
        
             | to11mtm wrote:
             | It depends whether they are using Steam's form of DRM
             | (AFAIR it can require at minimum some form of time-based
             | token auth where you can still play offline so long as you
             | have done so recently.)
             | 
             | PS4/PS5 as well as XBox%whatever% have a setup close to
             | this, however based on my observations the tokens tend to
             | 'auto-refresh' (at least on PS4/PS5) so long as you
             | actually turn the thing on once in a while.
        
           | bugfix wrote:
           | Once you buy a game on Steam, you don't need to pay any kind
           | of subscription to play it. The vast majority of games sold
           | there are, in fact, one-time purchases. The games stay in
           | your library even if the developer/publisher decides to
           | delist them.
           | 
           | There are games like MMOs that do require a subscription, but
           | that has nothing to do with Steam itself.
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | Oddly, I see it as a good thing. The more people realize how
       | badly the system is taking advantage of them, the more of a
       | chance we get a new status quo that is a little more reasonable.
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | Valve gets a lot of love for game design and leaking employee
       | manuals but when it comes to software freedom they are just
       | another Microsoft.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | I can buy Windows software without Microsoft being a middleman.
         | Steam on the other hand exists only to be a middleman. You
         | could (most naturally) buy a game without paying a middleman,
         | but it's the exception now for some reason and not the rule.
        
       | greenstalk wrote:
       | Steam, in terms of consumer policy, has only ever been as strong
       | as Gabe Newell. I think we'll see another Activision/Blizzard
       | situation in the near future as Gabe looks to step back into
       | (semi-)retirement.
        
         | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
         | Sadly, this is pretty accurate and not that different a
         | situation from linux kernel where Linus still reigns. Their
         | vision is driving both and, thankfully for most, they have been
         | fairly benevolent dictators.
         | 
         | But, and it is not a small but, even with their benevolent
         | dictatorship in place, it can only get much worse after they
         | are gone. The pieces to a rather bad ecosystem are all in
         | place.
        
       | beached_whale wrote:
       | Funny thing is, this made me look at places like Gog again,
       | bought a few games. But I am ok waiting years to play a game on
       | lower end hardware with all the games bug fixes already in place.
        
       | a3w wrote:
       | Steam says it is subscription, currently at "zero monetary
       | units"/month. But if the fee is ever raised and goes unpaid, it
       | reserves the right to lock you out from half-life 2 and every
       | game after that, since day one of its invention.
       | 
       | I get downvoted for 15 years of posting this online, every time.
       | Not today?
        
       | clhodapp wrote:
       | Even this new wording feels designed to misdirect:
       | 
       | The purpose of the California law is to tell customers that that
       | _aren 't_ buying a digital product but _only_ the license.
       | 
       | And yet there remains language that customers are likely to
       | interpret to mean that they've bought the game.
        
       | pajeets wrote:
       | if buying isn't owning then pirating isn't stealing
        
         | georgeplusplus wrote:
         | Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
         | 
         | I'm so pro physical media it's ridiculous that people can't be
         | bothered to go in a store and get a copy. They will only care
         | when they get locked out of their account and realize that when
         | steam says you really don't own your games that they weren't
         | bluffing.
        
           | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
           | Are you saying that it's due to laziness that some $12
           | strategy game from Eastern Europe that might sell 1000 copies
           | worldwide doesn't have copies in every Best Buy?
        
           | ThunderSizzle wrote:
           | Buying physical media is still renting if it uses any sort of
           | internet validation or online check, because those servers
           | aren't guaranteed to always be online in the immediate or far
           | future.
        
             | threecheese wrote:
             | Especially with shared key material that has an expiry in
             | that future, that consumers aren't aware of or wouldn't
             | understand if they were.
        
         | falcolas wrote:
         | Well, the government owns _all_ of the land, so by that logic
         | you should just steal whatever land you want, right?
         | 
         | 43 CFR 2920
        
       | catlikesshrimp wrote:
       | At least it is now clear For Millenials who expected products to
       | be sold.
       | 
       | Newer generations are happy with owning nothing. At least it is
       | the default for software.
        
       | m463 wrote:
       | If you have GOG, good time to point out software like
       | lgogdownloader will let you download the offline installers for
       | your entire library.
       | 
       | I suspect there are partial ways to do similar things for steam,
       | except for the actual play-the-game part is dependent on the DRM.
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/Sude-/lgogdownloader
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-12 23:01 UTC)