[HN Gopher] The Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
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       The Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
        
       Author : drdee
       Score  : 60 points
       Date   : 2024-10-12 04:29 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | The Shirky principle would suggest they need to steal horses to
       | ensure their continued existence.
        
         | crummy wrote:
         | If I were a horse thief, I would definitely try to join to
         | avoid suspicion
        
         | tpoacher wrote:
         | I know this was meant as a joke, but I can't resist the
         | temptation to point out that this is a subtle misinterpretation
         | of the Shirky principle (which I'm sure you're probably already
         | aware since this was probably meant as a joke :p ).
         | 
         | The Shirky principle doesn't necessarily say that companies
         | will engage in malicious behaviour in this manner. It's mostly
         | about how, consciously or not, they tend to focus on solutions
         | that _continually mitigate_ problems, but tend to ignore
         | solutions that could _forever eliminate_ those problems, thus
         | ensuring that they remain relevant in the mitigation space
         | rather than successfully eliminate the need for them to exist
         | in the first place.
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | Since they haven't found a horse thief since around 1907 I
           | suspect they are looking assiduously but also carefully _not_
           | where horse thieves actually are, within 20 miles of their
           | courthouse. Therefore dutifully meeting the shirky principle
           | in its finest sense.
           | 
           | I work in a policy forming not-for-profit which was tendered
           | a "no more policy" policy in 2011 and voted it down. I am
           | sure that meets the definition for perpetual problem solving.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | There are many organizations that similarly outlived their
       | usefulness.
       | 
       | The Junior Order of United American Mechanics is another one.
       | This was the kid's section of the Order of United American
       | Mechanics. It survived the parent organization and is still in
       | existence. Or at least the web site, not updated since 2019, is
       | still up.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.jrouamnationalcouncil.org
        
         | _visgean wrote:
         | > similarly outlived their usefulness.
         | 
         | from the wiki article it does not sound like they have ever
         | been useful.
        
       | cjs_ac wrote:
       | See also the one hundred and eleven Livery Companies of the City
       | of London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livery_company
        
         | Reason077 wrote:
         | Some of the Livery companies were already hundreds of years old
         | before the _United States_ even existed, let alone the Society
         | in Dedham!
        
           | 082349872349872 wrote:
           | Hundreds? I've been to an abbey which has been around for
           | more than 1'500 years...
           | 
           | (the next jump, to tens of thousands, will be difficult, as
           | anything over ~5k is prehistoric)
        
       | Reason077 wrote:
       | "There is only one instance of a horse thief being caught by the
       | Society"
       | 
       | Hmmm.
        
         | jameshart wrote:
         | Nonetheless the incidence of horse theft in Dedham has steadily
         | declined since their founding.
        
         | burkaman wrote:
         | That's what the 1987 source says, but the 1906 article says
         | 
         | > In days when vigilante justice was a major component of the
         | Society, "not a few horse thieves were apprehended by the
         | organization of the long name."
        
           | macintux wrote:
           | Technically 1 is not a few.
        
       | oersted wrote:
       | I just wanted to note how good the writing is on the first sign-
       | up list when it was just 13 blokes in a local tavern.
       | 
       | > The great number of horses stolen from amongst us and in our
       | vicinity is truly alarming, and calls for the attention of every
       | well-disposed Citizen. It is evident that there has been, and
       | probably will continue, a combination of Villains through the
       | northern states to carry into effect this malignant design, and
       | their frequent escape from the hand of justice stimulates them to
       | that atrocious practice. And as that kind of property is most
       | liable to be carried out of our knowledge, it requires the utmost
       | exertion of every good member of society, to baffle and suppress
       | depredations of this kind...
       | 
       | I do understand that it sounds fancy to us because of the old
       | language, it was probably how normal people spoke back then. But
       | man it's still quite artful and epic the way they express such a
       | mundane thing.
        
         | wood_spirit wrote:
         | Growing up I got a glimpse into the dying days of the English
         | pub, where it really was a living room where people went in the
         | evenings to be social. Normal everyday people quickly became
         | artists with words. Perhaps that is what we lost when tvs made
         | everyone start staying home and what we may never get back now
         | when everyone at home am just states into their own private
         | screen?
        
           | wussboy wrote:
           | The English pub was a critical "third space", but modern life
           | (especially car centric infrastructure) has made them go
           | away.
        
             | oersted wrote:
             | To be fair, I think the Internet has filled that role. It
             | has many fundamental issues, but in many ways it has been
             | much more effective than the pub at connecting people and
             | offering support.
             | 
             | It's easy to romanticize those local communities, but as
             | much as they offered some social support, they were also
             | rough and ignorant spaces. They ruthlessly suppressed any
             | behavior or personalities veering a bit outside the norm,
             | and kept everyone down at their level.
             | 
             | Sometimes having a limited choice of friends can be good,
             | but it can also be terrible. They killed innovation,
             | diversity and ambition in people. Not to mention the
             | alcoholism and the pull away from spending quality time
             | with family.
        
       | oersted wrote:
       | I sounds terribly exclusive,
       | 
       | > Since its founding there have been more than 10,000 members
       | including heads of state, Supreme Court justices, governors,
       | popes, professors, generals, and other notables.
       | 
       | But it's just a small old club adding elite members as a joke.
       | 
       | > The person elected to membership in the society need not even
       | know that they had been nominated.
       | 
       | > "I've always wondered what the reaction in the Vatican mail
       | room is when they open the envelope and see the certificate."
        
         | keybored wrote:
         | Yeah I did a double take there.
         | 
         | > > Since its founding there have been more than 10,000 members
         | including heads of state, Supreme Court justices, governors
         | 
         | Okay so what.
         | 
         | > , popes,
         | 
         | Uh what?
        
       | StrauXX wrote:
       | Somehow this article reminds me of the Lemony Snicket novels.
        
       | smrz wrote:
       | False, red hooks is older:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hook_Society_for_the_Appre...
        
       | devit wrote:
       | Not clear how this Wikipedia article survived deletion, given
       | that while the society seems to actually exist the subject is
       | clearly not notable (memberships are sent without request or
       | consent) and the article is plainly not NPOV and misleading,
       | presumably written as a joke or as a proof-of-concept of an
       | attack on Wikipedia.
        
         | ViktorRay wrote:
         | This subject seems more notable than many of the video game or
         | movie articles that Wikipedia editors seems to love to spend
         | large amounts of time on.
        
         | Mathnerd314 wrote:
         | You can read the discussion yourself:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...
         | The result was "no consensus". That in was 2006, before current
         | policies were well-established, and at this point I think it
         | would be a clear keep.
        
       | motohagiography wrote:
       | so glad it still exists. the point is the continuity itself. pity
       | so few men ride horses anymore, but I can see how that happened,
       | barns are feminine coded spaces now and it'd probably be like
       | getting guys to do zumba. however, places need social fabrics and
       | a way to connect. I live rurally and the closest thing here would
       | be the volunteer firemen groups and masonic lodges in the area.
       | it's important to have a way to share some dignity and
       | recognition that isn't monopolized by the state. sure they can be
       | exclusive, but the point was to make yourself worthy of welcome
       | somewhere.
       | 
       | in my collections I have a ritual book for The Society of the
       | Horseman's Word, which was a quasi-masonic fraternity for
       | horsemen loosely based on one for ploughmen in 19th c. scotland
       | and I thought about a fun reboot for it, but really there's
       | nothing in it that regular masonry doesn't provide and imposing a
       | constraint where guys need to be capable of anything outside
       | their jobs these days (let alone, riding) is too much of a self-
       | handicap. the other problem is do you really want to attract
       | people who need what you're offering?
       | 
       | orgs like these are a social fabric that forms the quality of
       | life we appreciate when we go into small towns and imagine how
       | peaceful living there is. if there is something like it in your
       | area, you should join one, as it's a way of providing stewardship
       | for the places and ways of life people enjoy.
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | > _barns are feminine coded spaces now_
         | 
         | That all depends upon the barn*, now doesn't it? Eg, I don't
         | recall there being many female rough stock riders.
         | 
         | > _places need social fabrics and a way to connect_
         | 
         | Around here we do that with voluntary associations. De
         | Tocqueville mentions them approvingly in _Democracy in America_
         | (1835), but for some reason this aspect of culture has swapped
         | over the intervening centuries, and I find there are way more
         | here in my corner of the Continent than in the Old Country.
         | 
         | > _a constraint where guys need to be capable of anything
         | outside their jobs_
         | 
         | What's even the point of living without an avocation beyond
         | your vocation?
         | 
         | * [I'd say over the last several decades I've only had to
         | (mostly teasingly, and each time in a barn chock full of DQs)
         | request that people please not female bond around me 2 or 3
         | times. And come to think of it, back when I was still single,
         | having a social spot that had the _opposite_ ratio to the one
         | at work was not exactly a bad thing. Has Jilly Cooper ever
         | written any books with a Zumba(r) setting?]
        
       | amiga386 wrote:
       | I'll see your Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
       | and raise you the Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping
       | Car Porters "George" (SPCSCPG)
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_the_Prevention_of_...
        
         | _sys49152 wrote:
         | Another obscure Archer ("The Limited", Season 3 Ep 6) reference
         | solved.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-12 23:01 UTC)