[HN Gopher] The Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
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The Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
Author : drdee
Score : 60 points
Date : 2024-10-12 04:29 UTC (18 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| ggm wrote:
| The Shirky principle would suggest they need to steal horses to
| ensure their continued existence.
| crummy wrote:
| If I were a horse thief, I would definitely try to join to
| avoid suspicion
| tpoacher wrote:
| I know this was meant as a joke, but I can't resist the
| temptation to point out that this is a subtle misinterpretation
| of the Shirky principle (which I'm sure you're probably already
| aware since this was probably meant as a joke :p ).
|
| The Shirky principle doesn't necessarily say that companies
| will engage in malicious behaviour in this manner. It's mostly
| about how, consciously or not, they tend to focus on solutions
| that _continually mitigate_ problems, but tend to ignore
| solutions that could _forever eliminate_ those problems, thus
| ensuring that they remain relevant in the mitigation space
| rather than successfully eliminate the need for them to exist
| in the first place.
| ggm wrote:
| Since they haven't found a horse thief since around 1907 I
| suspect they are looking assiduously but also carefully _not_
| where horse thieves actually are, within 20 miles of their
| courthouse. Therefore dutifully meeting the shirky principle
| in its finest sense.
|
| I work in a policy forming not-for-profit which was tendered
| a "no more policy" policy in 2011 and voted it down. I am
| sure that meets the definition for perpetual problem solving.
| Animats wrote:
| There are many organizations that similarly outlived their
| usefulness.
|
| The Junior Order of United American Mechanics is another one.
| This was the kid's section of the Order of United American
| Mechanics. It survived the parent organization and is still in
| existence. Or at least the web site, not updated since 2019, is
| still up.[1]
|
| [1] https://www.jrouamnationalcouncil.org
| _visgean wrote:
| > similarly outlived their usefulness.
|
| from the wiki article it does not sound like they have ever
| been useful.
| cjs_ac wrote:
| See also the one hundred and eleven Livery Companies of the City
| of London: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livery_company
| Reason077 wrote:
| Some of the Livery companies were already hundreds of years old
| before the _United States_ even existed, let alone the Society
| in Dedham!
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Hundreds? I've been to an abbey which has been around for
| more than 1'500 years...
|
| (the next jump, to tens of thousands, will be difficult, as
| anything over ~5k is prehistoric)
| Reason077 wrote:
| "There is only one instance of a horse thief being caught by the
| Society"
|
| Hmmm.
| jameshart wrote:
| Nonetheless the incidence of horse theft in Dedham has steadily
| declined since their founding.
| burkaman wrote:
| That's what the 1987 source says, but the 1906 article says
|
| > In days when vigilante justice was a major component of the
| Society, "not a few horse thieves were apprehended by the
| organization of the long name."
| macintux wrote:
| Technically 1 is not a few.
| oersted wrote:
| I just wanted to note how good the writing is on the first sign-
| up list when it was just 13 blokes in a local tavern.
|
| > The great number of horses stolen from amongst us and in our
| vicinity is truly alarming, and calls for the attention of every
| well-disposed Citizen. It is evident that there has been, and
| probably will continue, a combination of Villains through the
| northern states to carry into effect this malignant design, and
| their frequent escape from the hand of justice stimulates them to
| that atrocious practice. And as that kind of property is most
| liable to be carried out of our knowledge, it requires the utmost
| exertion of every good member of society, to baffle and suppress
| depredations of this kind...
|
| I do understand that it sounds fancy to us because of the old
| language, it was probably how normal people spoke back then. But
| man it's still quite artful and epic the way they express such a
| mundane thing.
| wood_spirit wrote:
| Growing up I got a glimpse into the dying days of the English
| pub, where it really was a living room where people went in the
| evenings to be social. Normal everyday people quickly became
| artists with words. Perhaps that is what we lost when tvs made
| everyone start staying home and what we may never get back now
| when everyone at home am just states into their own private
| screen?
| wussboy wrote:
| The English pub was a critical "third space", but modern life
| (especially car centric infrastructure) has made them go
| away.
| oersted wrote:
| To be fair, I think the Internet has filled that role. It
| has many fundamental issues, but in many ways it has been
| much more effective than the pub at connecting people and
| offering support.
|
| It's easy to romanticize those local communities, but as
| much as they offered some social support, they were also
| rough and ignorant spaces. They ruthlessly suppressed any
| behavior or personalities veering a bit outside the norm,
| and kept everyone down at their level.
|
| Sometimes having a limited choice of friends can be good,
| but it can also be terrible. They killed innovation,
| diversity and ambition in people. Not to mention the
| alcoholism and the pull away from spending quality time
| with family.
| oersted wrote:
| I sounds terribly exclusive,
|
| > Since its founding there have been more than 10,000 members
| including heads of state, Supreme Court justices, governors,
| popes, professors, generals, and other notables.
|
| But it's just a small old club adding elite members as a joke.
|
| > The person elected to membership in the society need not even
| know that they had been nominated.
|
| > "I've always wondered what the reaction in the Vatican mail
| room is when they open the envelope and see the certificate."
| keybored wrote:
| Yeah I did a double take there.
|
| > > Since its founding there have been more than 10,000 members
| including heads of state, Supreme Court justices, governors
|
| Okay so what.
|
| > , popes,
|
| Uh what?
| StrauXX wrote:
| Somehow this article reminds me of the Lemony Snicket novels.
| smrz wrote:
| False, red hooks is older:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hook_Society_for_the_Appre...
| devit wrote:
| Not clear how this Wikipedia article survived deletion, given
| that while the society seems to actually exist the subject is
| clearly not notable (memberships are sent without request or
| consent) and the article is plainly not NPOV and misleading,
| presumably written as a joke or as a proof-of-concept of an
| attack on Wikipedia.
| ViktorRay wrote:
| This subject seems more notable than many of the video game or
| movie articles that Wikipedia editors seems to love to spend
| large amounts of time on.
| Mathnerd314 wrote:
| You can read the discussion yourself:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletio...
| The result was "no consensus". That in was 2006, before current
| policies were well-established, and at this point I think it
| would be a clear keep.
| motohagiography wrote:
| so glad it still exists. the point is the continuity itself. pity
| so few men ride horses anymore, but I can see how that happened,
| barns are feminine coded spaces now and it'd probably be like
| getting guys to do zumba. however, places need social fabrics and
| a way to connect. I live rurally and the closest thing here would
| be the volunteer firemen groups and masonic lodges in the area.
| it's important to have a way to share some dignity and
| recognition that isn't monopolized by the state. sure they can be
| exclusive, but the point was to make yourself worthy of welcome
| somewhere.
|
| in my collections I have a ritual book for The Society of the
| Horseman's Word, which was a quasi-masonic fraternity for
| horsemen loosely based on one for ploughmen in 19th c. scotland
| and I thought about a fun reboot for it, but really there's
| nothing in it that regular masonry doesn't provide and imposing a
| constraint where guys need to be capable of anything outside
| their jobs these days (let alone, riding) is too much of a self-
| handicap. the other problem is do you really want to attract
| people who need what you're offering?
|
| orgs like these are a social fabric that forms the quality of
| life we appreciate when we go into small towns and imagine how
| peaceful living there is. if there is something like it in your
| area, you should join one, as it's a way of providing stewardship
| for the places and ways of life people enjoy.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| > _barns are feminine coded spaces now_
|
| That all depends upon the barn*, now doesn't it? Eg, I don't
| recall there being many female rough stock riders.
|
| > _places need social fabrics and a way to connect_
|
| Around here we do that with voluntary associations. De
| Tocqueville mentions them approvingly in _Democracy in America_
| (1835), but for some reason this aspect of culture has swapped
| over the intervening centuries, and I find there are way more
| here in my corner of the Continent than in the Old Country.
|
| > _a constraint where guys need to be capable of anything
| outside their jobs_
|
| What's even the point of living without an avocation beyond
| your vocation?
|
| * [I'd say over the last several decades I've only had to
| (mostly teasingly, and each time in a barn chock full of DQs)
| request that people please not female bond around me 2 or 3
| times. And come to think of it, back when I was still single,
| having a social spot that had the _opposite_ ratio to the one
| at work was not exactly a bad thing. Has Jilly Cooper ever
| written any books with a Zumba(r) setting?]
| amiga386 wrote:
| I'll see your Society in Dedham for Apprehending Horse Thieves
| and raise you the Society for the Prevention of Calling Sleeping
| Car Porters "George" (SPCSCPG)
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_the_Prevention_of_...
| _sys49152 wrote:
| Another obscure Archer ("The Limited", Season 3 Ep 6) reference
| solved.
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(page generated 2024-10-12 23:01 UTC)