[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What breakthrough helped you build and maint...
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Ask HN: What breakthrough helped you build and maintain better
relationships?
Pretty much just the title. As a very small, but highly frequent
example, I'll invite an acquaintance to get a coffee or beer with
me a few times but never have this acquaintance seemingly think of
me if I'm not directly asking them to hang. I can't really figure
out why. Maybe I'm a boring person? Maybe I'm abrasive? Maybe most
people like to stay in a perpetual state of acquaintance-ness? How
do you fix something like this if you can't diagnose what's wrong?
Author : beadey
Score : 82 points
Date : 2024-10-11 16:24 UTC (1 days ago)
| qup wrote:
| I'm one of the people you might invite. I'm an introvert and I
| don't think to include others in my plans. When I think about it
| now, I mostly assume they wouldn't want to.
|
| I will accept almost every social engagement with people I like,
| though.
|
| So: maybe it's not you.
| aantix wrote:
| You ask directly - the very questions you outlined.
|
| You have to risk the relationship - the very thoughts you fear,
| the thoughts "Oh, I could never ask that, they'll hate me."
|
| Those thoughts. You have to voice them.
|
| It's the only way to maintain intimacy and reveal who you truly
| are.
| evrimoztamur wrote:
| I think not taking it personally that somebody doesn't ring you
| back is a good start. People are busy, as you get older you have
| more responsibilities than you have time, so whatever you can eke
| out is for people who're already in your circles.
|
| For gelling with new people and bringing them into your own
| circle, it's good to understand that it's a numbers game too.
| Figuring out social groups that you enjoy should always be the
| main goal. I have real life friends who love climbing, and we
| already budgeted time for climbing, so we usually hang out before
| or after a session and it hits all the same. Similarly, online
| friends who like building video games like me can sometimes spare
| the time to play or develop together.
|
| Increasing your surface area in this way is a great way to start!
| As you get acquainted with more people, the chances that you have
| at least one person to hang out with at any time increases
| greatly, and in turn that they will want to hang out with you.
| comprev wrote:
| Relationships - in the work setting - stem from building trust
| that you can do your job/deliver as promised, and how your
| actions impact the careers of others.
|
| A colleague might be a fun character telling stories over a beer
| but also professionally useless.
|
| If a colleague invited me out for a coffee - and we didn't really
| know each other in the office - I would be suspicious as to their
| motive.
| M4v3R wrote:
| I'm in a weird state where at 30 years old we (together with my
| wife) lost our whole social circle and had to start anew. It's
| hard. What I realized that many people who are 30+ already have
| their social group they're content with and are not interested in
| expanding it, at least not initially.
|
| What we tried to do was basically inviting all our neighbors
| over, always being nice without trying too hard. At first some
| would not even say hello back. After a while we developed
| relationships that are not very deep yet, but we're getting
| somewhere. It takes time, a lot of time.
|
| What I would suggest is that you try many different people
| (neighbors, fellow parents from school, work colleagues) if one
| relationship doesn't pan out. Eventually you'll find someone with
| whom you will "click". For me the best relationships I got was
| with the former work colleagues, we just kept in touch and hanged
| out after work.
| bartleby9 wrote:
| Some people are just like that (I know I am sometimes). Don't
| take it personally.
|
| Rather than try to change how that person responds to you, you
| can either work on being ok with how little they initiate, or you
| can put effort into other (or finding new) relationships where
| people will initiate more.
|
| People also go through busy and less busy times - so maybe try
| again with this person in 6 months and see if things are
| different.
|
| There are so many different kinds of people (with so many
| different preferences), that I really think your time is better
| spent finding new people that you click more with, rather than
| trying to change yourself.
| sschnei8 wrote:
| Too many factors to possibly diagnose if "it's you", or even if
| there is something "to fix".
|
| Anecdotally, I desire to hang out with people who share my
| interests and want to do similar activities that we both enjoy.
|
| I'm a few years removed from college now, and it's highlighted to
| me just how special living closely with people of similar age and
| interest does for one's social life. Once you spread out, gain
| dependents, work, etc... it's much more of an effort to stay in
| touch.
|
| Just because someone doesn't reciprocate your effort to connect
| doesn't necessarily mean they don't want to hang out with you.
| brunojppb wrote:
| I'm currently reading this book called "Supercommunicators" and
| while I'm not done with it, there are some ideas there that
| really resonate.
|
| One of them is that this kind of people are generally in the
| minds of their friends/acquaintances. And one of the reasons
| there is that they see them as very good listeners during
| conversations. They match their conversation style, they confirm
| what they've been talking about with feedback and this sort of
| behaviour that tend to help people build trust and friendships.
|
| I'm not done with the book yet, but I can see many things
| relating to what I generally practice. And I've got good friends
| :)
| beadey wrote:
| Interesting, thanks for the rec. I'll seek this book out
| hluska wrote:
| I think I have some advice for you but I should clarify something
| first. Do your acquaintances agree to hang out when you invite
| them?
| beadey wrote:
| Probably less than 50% of the time. So I'm in the "mostly
| rejected" category.
| antisthenes wrote:
| Less than 50% can be 45%.
|
| If people agree to hang out with you 45% of the time, that's
| really great.
|
| Most of my circle is busy enough that my personal rate is
| somewhere between 20% and 30%.
|
| Try giving people a longer notice. Like maybe a full week
| instead of a couple of days. This should help them fit you
| into their schedule. People are just really busy these days.
|
| It's not your fault.
| jlos wrote:
| (1) Live and Speak Honestly
|
| (2) Be Childlike in your approach to life and relationships
|
| (1) Honest Living
|
| If your boring (and I don't know if you are), its probably
| because you stopped pursuing things that you wanted and excited
| you for something safe. Boring people also mask their emotions
| when speaking to people to avoid rejection.
|
| To find people you genuinely connect with, you need to express
| yourself fully. Honest expressions will make you more polarizing,
| and you will experience rejection. But the people you connect
| with will be much deeper because they see who you actually are.
|
| Honest living usually means some therapy or self reflection to
| identify the things in your life you stopped purusing. A simple
| litmus test: you are in a social situation and see a person you
| find attractive. Do you make excuses for not talking to them or
| go and talk to them, openly stating your interest?
|
| (2) Childlike
|
| Children play until they get hurt or get in trouble. Do you
| approach relationships with this attitude? Is your heart open to
| loving other people even if it hurts and they reject you?
| beadey wrote:
| For my specific situation, these are some profound questions
| and ways to frame my outlook. Thanks for your wisdom.
| mhartz wrote:
| The thing I always remind myself on this topic is from Dale
| Carengie's How to Win Friends and Influence People which is
| essentially you will make an order of magnitude more friends by
| being interested in other people than you will in trying to make
| them interested in you
| rchaud wrote:
| This is good advice for salespeople who need to strike up a
| rapport in a short amount of time. Real adult friendships are
| far more complicated due to the time investment required to
| actually build a friendship.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| To add to this, adult relationships are shades of shared
| adversity, reciprocity, vulnerability, and demonstrating
| reliability. Avoid transactional behavior, put yourself out
| there, accept losses but be present in the positive moments.
| ActorNightly wrote:
| The problem is that this advice is missing one piece of crucial
| information - first impressions are everything.
|
| Imagine you start a job, and you meet a coworker, who is well
| groomed, well spoken, and he just starts small chat with you,
| doing all the strategies in the book of "building you up". You
| would probably feel good.
|
| Now imagine the same situation except you have a coworker who
| is socially awkward and speaks in a monotone voice, doesn't do
| small chat, and right away starts asking very probing
| questions. You would probably be annoyed as fuck.
| binary132 wrote:
| I'm probably the exception rather than the rule, but I
| generally enjoy spending time with people who are a little
| more offbeat and intense much more than with people who are
| well put together and well presented, assuming they have
| something worthwhile to offer. People like that give me a
| sales vibe and it's really icky, makes me feel paranoid. Plus
| I'd much rather have an interesting discussion about
| something challenging than share in tiresome pleasantries.
|
| I CAN enjoy and get along with the other type, but it's much
| more fruitful and I'm more likely to seek to spend time with
| those who offer something to engage with. I have very limited
| time so I'd prefer to spend it profitably.
|
| But yeah, people like that can definitely be more weird,
| uncomfortable, and downright awkward, for sure. No doubt many
| in this forum can too. I try to just have patience and
| suppress my natural irritation for the sake of learning
| something, or discovering interesting things about a person I
| wouldn't have otherwise. I've certainly committed the
| opposite error too, in rejecting people socially who later
| turned out to be pretty cool and unique despite their flaws
| and foibles.
|
| But like, for the majority of folks, you definitely need to
| be able to hang and be comfortably normal, too. I just see
| that as a less profitable way to allocate my time usually.
|
| I might be undiagnosed / high-functioning autistic spectrum
| though so take it with a grain of salt, but many people in
| tech are.
| naming_the_user wrote:
| I wouldn't consider basic stuff like grooming to be "trying
| to get other people to be interested in you" aside from in
| the really strict sense (e.g. literally going outside at all
| is trying to get other people to be interested in you).
| brudgers wrote:
| _but never have this acquaintance seemingly think of me if I'm
| not directly asking them to hang._
|
| Treating relationsips non-transactionally, helped me. Sure,
| sometimes I might feel a bit disappointed. That's a hazard of
| para-social thinking. Relationships have asymmetries. Hence the
| friendship paradox:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox
|
| _Maybe I'm a boring person?_
|
| Well half of all people are more boring than average...But mostly
| adult lives are complex. You probably don't rate as highly as
| someone's child, partner, or established social circle. These are
| long term relationships. Good luck.
| copperx wrote:
| Take a lesson from alcohol (but don't drink).
|
| Disinhibition is a social lubricant. We are so used to being safe
| because that's what the workplace requires, that we've lost the
| ability to be disinhibited around closer relationships. People
| who can be disinhibited and show their flaws are really
| attractive. But it doesn't come free, some people will reject you
| more. And that's ok.
| toptrumps wrote:
| Alcohol makes people just loud and foolish IMO. I like your
| point but I think it oversells that drug a bit. Occasionally
| you can have a good trip on it though.
| aagha wrote:
| 3 strikes and you're out.
|
| I'm nearly 50 and an extrovert and I've found that healthy and
| fulfilling relations are a function of reciprocity.
|
| I'm willing to engage with someone 3x and see if they'll
| reciprocate. If not, I move on--no hard feelings, just realizing
| it's not a mutual fit.
|
| This rule has served me immensely well in my friends. As a
| result, I have nearly no loose friends--just very tight, reliable
| connections.
| beadey wrote:
| I think this is a good rule to live by that I should
| incorporate. I fear that energy I spend on people who just
| aren't into me will leave me bitter and reluctant to spend that
| energy on others, which will have compounding effects as I get
| later into life. Giving myself a firm limit of energy spent
| will help ensure it persists longer.
| sandwichsphinx wrote:
| When I have trouble diagnosing something, I reach into literature
| for clues. Your post reminded me about this paper from 2016,
| reading it might prove to be helpful for you.
|
| >Are You Your Friends' Friend? Poor Perception of Friendship Ties
| Limits the Ability to Promote Behavioral Change
|
| https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
| creer wrote:
| Actively and deliberately maintain contact and communication.
| Result? Marginal. Yes, I feel it has helped but only a little, at
| the margin.
| creer wrote:
| R.A.D.A.R. or structured communication. This is the idea that
| difficult and "we need to talk" kinds of topics should not be
| addressed when "hot" but when the circumstances are at their
| best; and that deliberate time with best circumstances should be
| created deliberately; and that some topics that rarely get time
| to be discussed should get time. This is a profound idea. ... and
| for me so far it has had minimal result. In part because of a
| partner weaponizing EVEN these deliberately perfect
| circumstances! Le sigh.
|
| Trying to make convo circumstances and process perfect cannot
| solve mental issues or deeply ingrained habbits. Not quickly
| anyway, perhaps not at all. But for damn sure, it's thinking in
| the right direction!
|
| I am currently wanting to apply this "even" to friendships but
| run into the issue that people "don't have time".
| onewheeltom wrote:
| Personally, I think this has to do with not being very good at
| making friends when I was younger.
| toptrumps wrote:
| Tell me about it. I have a perfect blend of being almost
| friendless as a kid, bullied then major friendship issues as an
| adult that made me not trust friends then move country and have
| kids, and heath issues. To boot: i am an intovert and anxious.
| So yeah happyish to not have friends. It feels like a
| monumental effort to fix that now and not a big concern ad I
| focus on lower maslov needs like survival.
| creer wrote:
| Recognizing that friendships are important. It's easy when
| younger to take them for granted. Easy come, easy go (even when
| not easy come). That's profoundly mistaken. Friendships of all
| kinds are important and deserve a deliberate approach.
| creer wrote:
| > never have this acquaintance seemingly think of me if I'm not
| directly asking them to hang
|
| Many people don't think twice about friendships (of any kind).
| It's them.
|
| You are not their top of the list attraction (of any kind). It's
| you.
|
| But then too, when you are lucky enough to find someone who
| really clicks with you, do ask them to critique your approach.
| Sadly in many cultures including the US, this is just "not done".
| Not considered appropriate. Even when you ask. That's so sad. No
| wonder we are lonely.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Ruthless _grounded_ selection
| beadey wrote:
| Can you expound on this a bit? It seems that it's realistically
| pursuing relationships that only seem as if they are moving in
| a reciprocal direction, otherwise move on as quickly as
| possible.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| I can try! Your example is fairly generous. There are several
| reasons, some are less appropriate for a forum like this.
|
| It's not so much reciprocity... but, some sort of personal
| investment. If I don't think someone is fully into _"
| $thing"_, then I'll save the spot for someone who is. There
| are shades to relationships, most of mine have not been
| great. It's a defense mechanism - I know I'm not the target.
|
| I don't recommend any of this, really. Just to make
| considerations. I'm closer with some of my coworkers than
| most of my family, yet I'm not that keen. Most of the time,
| at least. It's strange. Incredibly dynamic.
|
| I would benefit _greatly_ from more people like you who
| actually do make an effort. Yet, I 'd disappoint you and feel
| terrible about it. I think I'm always prepared for things to
| go south, expecting it - perhaps causing it.
| j_crick wrote:
| > How do you fix something like this if you can't diagnose what's
| wrong?
|
| You don't "fix" it, you just fine-tune your behavior models.
|
| Make of yourself something that people need and/or want (which is
| often something they'll eventually outright signal that they're
| missing). Don't make yourself dependable, but desirable.
|
| Empathy and compassion are fickle resources because if you are
| superficial about expressing them, people will notice.
|
| Sound advice and expertise are nice but limited in scope and
| frequency, and require some reputation and trust building.
|
| In most informal contexts most people are prone to oversharing to
| a keen ear. So become an active listener, pretend to be genuinely
| interested (but not necessarily empathic) about people's
| experiences and throw in something relatable to them on the way,
| pretend to be more stupid than them, grease their egos while
| playing an innocent contrarian, and eventually they'll think
| you're a great person and invite you to their secret boring,
| pretentious and utterly tasteless wine drinking clubs. If that's
| what you want then you win.
| galfarragem wrote:
| Congratulations, new skill unlocked: master manipulator. /s
| cvdub wrote:
| > I'll invite an acquaintance to get a coffee or beer with me a
| few times but never have this acquaintance seemingly think of me
| if I'm not directly asking them to hang.
|
| This is a great start! You're already doing what most people find
| the hardest: making the first move.
|
| Grabbing coffee, and even going out to dinner, aren't good
| activities for making deep connections. They're too short and too
| routine. They can work, it'll just take longer, and you will have
| to work harder to make sure conversation is meaningful.
|
| I think the best way to make real friendships is to go on a
| weekend trip somewhere together. First of all, you're spending
| days together instead of hours, but more importantly, you'll have
| a shared experience to remember. You get to see what someone is
| like not only during activities and meals, but also during
| downtime.
|
| Weekend trips could be awkward if it's just one on one though, so
| if you don't have a group, the next best thing is doing an
| activity together. Figure out a shared interest, then invite your
| new friend to do something you'd both enjoy. Maybe it's a
| concert, talk, hike, whatever. Do that a few times and your new
| friend will associate you with that activity. Next time they're
| going to a concert/talk/hike or whatever, they'll invite you to
| tag along.
| iJohnDoe wrote:
| Just like any relationship, some click and some don't.
|
| People are busy and don't think about others most of the time.
| Most live in their own world.
|
| If they get an invite, they'll often be happy to mix things up
| and meet. Then most go back to their normal routine.
|
| Give off relaxed and breezy vibes. It's easy to sense when
| someone is trying too hard. Most don't want an another obligation
| in life, so they don't want another thing they need to be
| bothered by. However, a friend that is casual works out better.
|
| Amount of time between hanging out has naturally gotten further
| apart. Allow yourself to be okay with this aspect.
|
| Don't take things personally. Be your natural and genuine self.
|
| Good luck!
| bitbasher wrote:
| I can't speak for women, but for men it's tough to make friends.
|
| We tend to not get personal and if you don't have deeper more
| meaningful conversations with someone you can't really become
| "friends."
|
| I've only had a few friends my entire life and I've lost most of
| them.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| I've found that I have to enjoy doing things with someone to
| foment a friendship, not just enjoy hanging out with them.
|
| I suppose it's the time I spend with them doing stuff
| (activities like games or sports) that gives us the ability to
| be more personal, gradually
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| Doing hobbies that involve other people has helped me make a lot
| of friends- for a lot of men in particular, this is often really
| the only way to build friendships.
|
| Learning how to be emotionally vulnerable is key to actually
| connecting with people. The book "Models" by Mark Manson is a
| pretty good primer on the importance of emotional vulnerability
| to connect with people. It is sort-of a dating advice book, but
| I've found it helpful for making regular friendships and
| connecting with my own family as well.
|
| Another thing that is helpful is learning how to communicate
| assertively- which is the opposite of being emotionally
| manipulative. The book "When I say no I feel guilty" is
| particularly good introduction to assertive communication. A lot
| of people only learned emotionally manipulative communication,
| and will be avoided by almost anyone that sees that for what it
| is.
|
| Counter-intuitively, not being desperate is critical. Be willing
| to judge if someone is worth your time, and be willing to
| disagree with people or say no, without letting the fear of being
| rejected control you. The same authenticity and vulnerability
| that will make people really connect with you, will also drive
| some people away, and that is totally fine. The goal is not to be
| friends with everyone, but to make good friends with people you
| are compatible with.
|
| Therapy can often be helpful for developing all 3 of the above
| skills.
|
| Lastly, take the initiative to make things happen. Invite someone
| to do activities several times before expecting them to
| reciprocate. People tend to be busy, shy, stressed, etc. - just
| because people don't reach out doesn't mean they don't like you.
| hanifc wrote:
| Not much to add to an already great comment, but I'll
| emphatically back the recommendation of "Models".
|
| I read that book in my early 20s so that I could have better
| relationships with women, but what I got from that book were
| lessons on living a good and authentic life. Easily the most
| influential book I've ever read.
| purple-leafy wrote:
| This is really well said. I think the key parts you've
| identified are:
|
| - being emotionally vulnerable (but not an emotional doormat!)
|
| - not being desperate
|
| I really struggled with emotional vulnerability, and this took
| time to get comfortable with, with many fails.
|
| Being desperate is also tricky, because when you're lonely you
| yearn to make contacts. I won't lie, this part is hard, but
| working on yourself FIRST seems to be the key anecdotally.
|
| Be the best version of yourself. When I say this, I mean the
| best "genuine" version. That means, genuinely caring, not
| desperate, not toxic, letting go of grudges, challenging
| insecurities and strong negative beliefs.
|
| Note that "best you" does NOT mean "rich", "powerful", "hot and
| ripped", "best dressed", "most girlfriends" and "coolest car"
| .... lol
|
| Some people think the above when they are younger, because our
| whole lives we are sold that that is what success looks like.
| Sure, to a very shallow world view it may be "success".
|
| But being happy, caring, genuine, and honest is much harder and
| much more related to success in my opinion.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| I agree, trying to not be desperate when you are lonely can
| be a real catch 22. Gradually building up a strong circle of
| good friends is the main thing that gives social confidence
| and makes you non-desperate, but that is little help to
| someone that is lonely.
|
| When I was younger I ended up being friends with some awful
| people (literally criminals in some cases), and even marrying
| someone that treated me badly, because I just didn't want to
| be alone.
|
| Now I think there is a better solution when finding friends
| hard to come by- decide what is really important to you and
| make that a hard boundary, but be willing to tolerate other
| "flaws" in people that might also be having trouble making
| friends. For example, I won't be friends with someone that I
| think is a bad person, or treats others badly on purpose, but
| I will be friends with someone that has poor social skills or
| is neurodivergent in a way that makes them hard for others to
| be around, if I think they are still a good person, and am
| able to enjoy spending time with them, e.g. through a shared
| activity we both enjoy.
|
| I found that essentially lowering my standards in a way
| compatible with my values expanded my circle of potential
| friends, without being "desperate" in the sense of having no
| boundaries like I did when I was younger.
|
| I also agree that you get to define success for yourself
| based on your own values. It is a mistake to take the
| definition of success handed to you by society/others.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| "Models" by Mark Manson was my bible in college, and I swear by
| it.
|
| I especially swear by the summary at
| https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2018/05/25/models-a-summ...
| , which I printed out and read basically every morning for a
| couple of months until it felt like a part of me. Changed my
| life, vastly for the better.
| bluedino wrote:
| >> Doing hobbies that involve other people
|
| This is something that doesn't really work for me. I've made a
| few friends through some hobbies (and we're still friends even
| though we don't participate in them anymore), but I think the
| problem is I'm not as into the hobbies as much as the other
| people are.
|
| I don't want to hang out with anyone at my gym. A lot of the
| ____ club people are _obsessed_ with that particular thing. I
| have other interests than that one thing.
|
| I find the key is being easy to talk to, and finding people who
| are easy to talk to.
| aristofun wrote:
| 1. You're not a 100 dollar bill to be liked by everyone that you
| like. While worrying about it is in itself a repellent.
|
| 2. You may actually be full of sh.t (nobody's perfect). Only life
| and rarely a very close true friend can give you proper hints (or
| lessons which are often quite expensive, but that is what builds
| your character and makes you you in the end).
| lcall wrote:
| Maybe somewhat tangential, but for maintaining relationships
| (close or distant) in general, the best things for me (who am
| still learning) have been a study of the Bible and Book of
| Mormon, and some things they said in our church's General
| Conference, which I will try to roughly quote from memory:
|
| "Never let a task to be accomplished be more important than a
| person to be loved."
|
| "The primary feeling in any interaction should be love."
|
| "Observe and serve."
|
| This does not mean failure to speak only truth in kindness as
| appropriate, or to set boundaries when necessary. I think Jesus
| Christ's example of understanding, truth, and kindness are ideal
| for us all.
|
| Also as some have hinted here, being a good listener, asking
| questions, caring about others' background and well-being in
| general, being humble, willing to share when appropriate, and
| looking for the good and things to appreciate in others, and ways
| to serve, can go a long way. Interesting volunteering
| opportunities (where you would meet people as a side-effect)
| might be found at https://justserve.org if available in your
| area.
| lcall wrote:
| And if disagreeing, one can always say "I guess we see it
| differently. Maybe different assumptions or priorities. Good
| food for thought..." and smile and be curious about their
| rationale without ever being angry.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| I'm on the receiving end of this behavior, and even if I'm
| probably not representative of what's happening to you, I will
| bring my data point anyway.
|
| There are quite a non-trivial number of people who reach out to
| me (mostly old friends/coworkers), with whom I wouldn't want to
| engage. There are multiple reasons, but it fundamentally always
| boils down to any social interaction with them being an
| opportunity for them to compare themselves with me, and making me
| feel inferior, by explicit comments or by some sort of virtue
| signaling. I'm not even sure they realize it, and it's also
| possible it's just in my head. Regardless, that's how I feel.
|
| I am not a complete sociopath, so just declaring upfront that I
| do not desire to meet with them is bad taste in my morals, so I
| simply ruthlessly decline every single invitation, until they get
| the point and stop reaching out. It's puzzling to me how
| sometimes a person might reach out for YEARS before giving up (on
| a perhaps 2-3 month basis for 2-3 years), asking for a call or to
| meet up, and me every time shutting them down with "I'm busy",
| "I'm traveling", etc.
|
| Make no mistake, if I were to "cave in" and meet them up, it
| would immediately be an opportunity for them to flaunt their
| financial/marital/career/athletic success in front of me, by
| comparing themselves to me, so no, no pity. Example: a "friend"
| who made $20M from an extremely lucky IPO had the nerve to tell
| me "why don't you just pick a good company that's going to IPO
| soon and make a lot of money like me? A couple years and then
| you're done, it's easy". No shit lol. This is a person who
| insisted for YEARS to meet up, after I started the process of
| declining any invitation. Fortunately he seems to have moved on
| now, but never say never.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| It seems surprising to me that you are saying you have this
| issue with a lot of people, when I find this type of behavior
| to be fairly rare- although I agree it can be really obnoxious
| when it happens. I could be wrong about this, but is it
| possible that you are the one doing the comparing, and not
| them?
|
| Do you feel that you are doing how you want in life, or that
| you aren't successful enough, and feel triggered or self
| conscious about other people doing well in general?
|
| For example with the person you mentioned, why don't you get
| involved with a high risk high reward startup? I know for me, I
| am a parent so my financial risk tolerance is too low for that,
| and I'm more driven by intellectual freedom and working on
| specific things I am interested in rather than trying to get
| rich quick. I also personally enjoy simple living, and already
| live exactly how I want to live- I wouldn't choose to change my
| lifestyle with more money in the bank, so what would be the
| point? It's just not something I want to do, but I don't mind
| if a friend does and it pays out for them!
|
| I want all of my friends to really thrive, and don't see life
| as a competition or zero-sum game. If someone is doing better
| than me at something, that is one less thing for us as a team
| to worry about- and maybe it will give them the time, energy,
| or wisdom to also help me to thrive more. I want to hear
| everything I can about how well they are doing, really
| celebrate it with them, and will be open to advice on how I
| might do the same. Personally, my main hobby is sailing, and
| most of my sailing friends are much much wealthier than I am.
| This doesn't really bother me, because I made choices in life
| that don't really lead to that kind of wealth- based on my own
| priorities, but I feel I am successful based on what I actually
| want out of life.
|
| I really really don't want to be a person that has a crab in
| the bucket mentality - so consciously aim to be someone that
| isn't like that, and can enjoy other peoples success.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| > but is it possible that you are the one doing the
| comparing, and not them?
|
| > Do you feel that you are doing how you want in life, or
| that you aren't successful enough, and feel triggered or self
| conscious about other people doing well in general?
|
| I have asked myself these questions many times, and I do
| think I have been fairly exhaustive in my introspection.
|
| I genuinely think that a good number of people who reach out
| to me do so purely to lift themselves up, by comparing
| themselves with me on certain dimensions.
|
| I am never the person initiating extremely violating
| questions such as: "How much do you make? How big is your
| house? Which neighborhood do you live in? Do you own or rent?
| How much can you squat? Based on your years of experience,
| your net worth should be in this ballpark, am I correct?" Etc
| etc.
|
| No, I do not compare myself to others, I genuinely wouldn't
| want what they have, in the dimensions that they are
| comparing themselves with me.
|
| Could I be a person of extreme virtue and continue
| interacting with these people? Of course I could, but why
| should I, if it makes me unhappy? I am happy not to interact
| with them, there is nothing I need to change.
|
| I have several relationships that work exactly like what you
| described (especially family, significant other, childhood
| friends), and I cherish those.
| purple-leafy wrote:
| I don't have many friends. But I have very deep connections with
| few people, and it's getting better as I get older. I'm still
| under 30. Most of my friends are nearing 50.
|
| Anecdotally, know yourself. And make an effort. Cast your nets
| deep, not wide. Have morals, have ideas, have grounding
| principals. Principals that are malleable over time and
| experience. It helps to have a "North Star" in life.
|
| I live by: Live very simply, be genuine, be honest no matter
| what, love deeply.
|
| Have "strong opinions held loosely". Don't have shallow insights,
| be educated, read deeply, learn deeply.
|
| Don't be a sheep. That is the default most boring state in the
| world. It makes for boring people and interactions. Question that
| status quo. But don't do it just because a person on the internet
| said, see how it relates to your principles.
|
| I've lost a lot of friends over the years, it happens, many times
| was due to how I was as a person at the time.
|
| But learning from my partner has made me a more principled
| person, comfortable in my own skin now.
|
| I have a very small amount of close relationships with friends,
| and they are relationships not bound by time or upkeep or
| location.
|
| We mostly catch up when we can a few times a year, and have deep
| life discussions and catching up on their life. It helps that
| they are genuinely some of the smartest people I've ever met.
|
| I facilitate a lot of the meetups. I've learnt to be okay with
| this, I people have busy lives. Younger me used to take this
| personally, and think "why do I have to do everything", but
| that's just my role, and the relationships are worth the effort.
|
| I say this from experience, most interactions with people are
| very shallow. I think people shy away from connections as there
| is a world full of potential connections. Analysis paralysis and
| perfection.
|
| So you just have to be the bigger person and make the effort, but
| you also have to determine whether a person is worth making an
| effort for.
|
| To answer that question, look for people that are:
|
| - not materialistic; genuine; caring; kind; honest to a fault;
| living life
| beadey wrote:
| Thanks all! It was insightful to read your discoveries. I'm
| excited to look into the books and articles you shared. I
| appreciate all the wisdom shared.
| satisfice wrote:
| What is the problem? That you want someone to think of you? You
| want invitations to dine?
|
| Be charismatic. (Not really in your control. But sometimes can be
| blundered into by being interesting based on having a certain
| expertise or knowledge-base.)
|
| Be useful, then. (Can be achieved by being rich, or offering a
| service of some kind.)
|
| If people feel safe or listened to or powerful or attractive when
| they are around you, they will flock in your direction. But be
| careful what you wish for.
| rpmisms wrote:
| Be resilient. Be able to bounce back from pain or discomfort. Be
| interested. Be helpful. Be willing to be honest in a kind way.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| > I'll invite an acquaintance to get a coffee or beer
|
| In the past I was quito often very surprised/disappointed to
| yield the result you describe. A lot of people have busy lives.
| Chances that the acquaintance would randomly invite you back are
| low, unless you became good friends. There's some 'uncommon
| magick' or chemistry involved in becoming close friends. Don't
| take it personally.
|
| My advice would be basically come into contact with a lot of
| people, ie
|
| - taking up a hobby where other people are involved. You already
| have the benefit of a common interest.
|
| - talk AND listen to 'random' people for example in a shop while
| waiting, at the gym, in the waiting room of the dentist etc.
| People tend to like and trust people who easily talk and listen
| with empathy.
|
| - hang around with people of your same age.
| aantix wrote:
| Always risk the relationship by revealing your thoughts.
|
| Even those hard, messy, I don't think you'll like me or you'll
| think I'm crazy thoughts.
|
| "I will be truthful with you and you with me, and we will find
| ourselves in this knowing.
|
| People think that intimacy is about sex. But intimacy is about
| truth.
|
| When you realize you can tell someone your truth, when you can
| show yourself to them, when you stand in front of them and their
| response is "you're safe with me" - that's intimacy."
|
| -- Taylor Jenkins Reid
| halfcat wrote:
| You're definitely boring, to someone.
|
| And you're incredibly interesting to someone else.
|
| The goal is to find mutually interesting matches. And most people
| won't be a match. It's a numbers game.
| awb wrote:
| Sometimes group activities can be helpful. Have you tried
| inviting 3-5 friends to go out for drinks, go for a hike, play a
| sport, play cards, watch a game, etc.?
|
| It's less intimidating when you're first getting to know someone
| if there's a group, and then you'll have something memorable in
| common in the future when you meet 1 on 1.
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