[HN Gopher] Nurdle Patrol
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       Nurdle Patrol
        
       Author : amar-laksh
       Score  : 123 points
       Date   : 2024-10-11 06:00 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nurdlepatrol.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nurdlepatrol.org)
        
       | tsimionescu wrote:
       | Much nicer to run into a Nurdle patrol than a Nurgle patrol (I
       | know this is not the kind of comment HN is for, but I couldn't
       | help it).
        
         | flir wrote:
         | The nurdles mostly come from the manufacture of Nurgles.
        
         | wyldfire wrote:
         | What's worse, a patrol of Nurgles or a patrol of Nargles?
        
       | Traubenfuchs wrote:
       | Imagine a beach completely consisting of nurdles. Imagine an
       | ecosystem of bacteria, microorganisms, fish and other seafood
       | creatures adapted to living on it. I feel like as humanity we
       | could totally reach a point where evolution to that kind of
       | ecosystem becomes the only choice. Same for our immune, digestive
       | and lymph system. We could end up at a point where most of life
       | NEEDS microplastic to survive! Then we can finally stop caring
       | about micro plastics and start loving them instead.
       | 
       | I for one love nurdles!
        
         | mnazzaro wrote:
         | This is such a strange spot for a glass half full take lol. "At
         | least it's warm in hell!"
        
           | prepend wrote:
           | I think the good news is that we can adapt to enjoy how warm
           | it is in hell. So it's bad news that we're going to hell,
           | good news is that we'll eventually like it.
        
         | dTal wrote:
         | "Evolve" here is a neat word for "countless trillions of
         | creatures die preventable deaths or otherwise fail to reproduce
         | over geological time". If your terminal goal is to "finally
         | stop caring about micro plastics" rather than "protect Earth's
         | existing ecosystem", why wait? Just nuke the planet to glass.
         | Microplastic worry over.
         | 
         | (A similarly nihilist viewpoint comes from the people who
         | pontificate that "the planet will be fine, it's humans who will
         | suffer". Sure, if by "the planet" you mean "a lump of mass
         | orbiting the sun". Low bar for your ethical framework.)
        
           | flir wrote:
           | > Low bar for your ethical framework
           | 
           | Or highest. Puts overall species diversity ahead of the
           | future of a single species (us).
        
             | dTal wrote:
             | That would be a defensible (if unpopular) position - see
             | VHEMT - but usually the people saying this are arguing
             | against the ethical consequentiality of anthropogenic
             | ecosystem damage ("the planet will be fine") which is very
             | harmful to biodiversity. Nobody's really offered a sane
             | ethical framework in which it's a _good_ thing for humans
             | to wreck the planet, killing themselves and most everything
             | else in the process.
        
           | oasisbob wrote:
           | There's a broad read on the definition of "social Darwinism"
           | I like to remember.
           | 
           | Natural selection is a scientific concept and process. When
           | people hijack these concepts for social or political aims,
           | it's no longer scientific, and it's something else entirely.
        
         | mikro2nd wrote:
         | The trouble with that notion is this: imagining that a plastic-
         | based ecosystem arises (horrifying thought!) it means that
         | there are life-forms capable of deriving energy from plastics,
         | breaking them down. That makes plastics useless to us humans,
         | because any time we try to use plastics for all the things we
         | currently do with them, those life-forms are going to come
         | along and attack, break down the stuff we deem "useful
         | plastics"; the critters will make no distinction between
         | nurdles lost on the beach and the plastics holding your
         | car/house/clothes/aeroplane together. i.e. It's Game Over for
         | plastics use.
        
           | cglace wrote:
           | That's not necessarily true. There is an ecosystem for
           | breaking down wood, and my house is framed in wood.
        
             | FrustratedMonky wrote:
             | Termites are a good example.
             | 
             | They are a natural way to break down wood. And they can eat
             | your house. Thus we have come up with ways to mitigate
             | them. Now there is an entire industry around preventing
             | termites, fixing termite damage, etc..
             | 
             | So, the problem is, we find some microbe that eats
             | plastics. Boom, now we have a new problem, we need an
             | entire industry to prevent them from eating the plastics we
             | don't want them to eat. Think of traveling with your
             | laptop, 'oops, got a little bit of plastic eating microbe,
             | guess i'm buying a new laptop'
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Fast forward to that future, someone says: imagine a world
         | where we don't have to live in our own waste ... how much more
         | efficient would our biology be?
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | I mean sure, with issues like plastics, global warming, ozone
         | layer hole, melted polar caps, extreme weather events, bug
         | collapse, etc etc etc, life will find a way. It's not a "final"
         | extinction event per se, nor one as catastrophic as the meteor
         | strike from back when.
         | 
         | But we are living in a mass extinction event. Billions of crabs
         | died. Bug population has collapsed. Biodiversity has nosedived.
         | 
         | Humanity hasn't suffered yet in terms of total population, but
         | that's because we're able to adapt our environment accordingly.
         | That said, we will see famines and scarcities in our lifetime.
         | Hell, we already do, but it mainly presents itself in day to
         | day life (in "the west") as some products going out of shelves
         | (the UK having supply problems due to brexit / long border
         | queues) or prices spiking (e.g. produce from Ukraine). But
         | worldwide we will see more of that.
         | 
         | As for (micro)plastics, IIRC we've yet to determine the full
         | impact. But we know these nurdles break down into microplastics
         | over time due to UV exposure and the like, but they don't
         | disappear completely and find their way into everything. We'll
         | only know the full impact looking back in a few hundred years.
        
           | mrspuratic wrote:
           | Harvest in England the second worst on record because of wet
           | weather https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/oct/10/h
           | arvest-...
        
       | jdietrich wrote:
       | In 2023, 221 shipping containers were lost at sea, out of a total
       | of 250 million shipped. That's a loss rate of 0.000088%.
       | 
       | Plastic pellets are a visible pollutant on beaches. I have not
       | seen any evidence that they're a particularly harmful pollutant.
       | A single 20 tonne containerload of plastic pellets can leave a
       | visible residue on hundreds or thousands of beaches, but the 15
       | tonnes of CO2 emitted by the average American _every year_ is
       | entirely invisible.
       | 
       | https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ff6c5336c885a268148b...
        
         | protonbob wrote:
         | They are particularly harmful because they end up in your food
         | and cause damage to your organs.
        
           | jdietrich wrote:
           | A plastic pellet is typically 3-5mm in diameter. I think I'd
           | notice that in my food. Even if I did enjoy swallowing fish
           | guts whole, a plastic pellet is just going to pass straight
           | through my digestive system.
           | 
           | Additives can leach out of plastics and enter the food chain,
           | but pellets lost at sea are a completely insignificant factor
           | because the total volume of waste produced by this route is
           | so small. The majority of marine plastic is either post-
           | consumer waste dumped in rivers in developing countries, or
           | fishing gear that is lost at sea. If you're really worried
           | about this, then you really need to take it up with the
           | government of the Philippines and the global fishing
           | industry.
           | 
           | https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics
        
             | FrustratedMonky wrote:
             | "I think I'd notice that in my food"
             | 
             | That isn't how food processing works.
             | 
             | There are many steps of grinding, pulverizing, mixing, re-
             | forming, de-forming, extruding, heating, cooling.
             | 
             | The 3mm plastic pellet becomes a thousand smaller bits.
             | 
             | Also, you'd be surprised how many bugs are in your creamed
             | corn, and you don't notice those either.
        
             | doctorhandshake wrote:
             | >> a plastic pellet is just going to pass straight through
             | my digestive system
             | 
             | Through the mechanical grinding action of weather and tides
             | (the same mechanisms that make sand out of rock and coral),
             | these chunks can become much much smaller, small enough to
             | cross the intestine into the bloodstream and small enough
             | to cross the blood brain barrier or pass up your nose,
             | lodging in your brain.
             | 
             | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10141840/
             | 
             | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticl
             | e...
        
               | quietbritishjim wrote:
               | It's a pity the parent commenter led with that point.
               | Their second point, that the overwhelming majority of
               | ocean plastic pollution comes from those two sources,
               | remains valid (albeit I'm not sure if it's actually true
               | but it certainly seems feasible).
        
               | doctorhandshake wrote:
               | To their second point, blaming the Philippines for
               | dumping our 'recycling' in the ocean is a little bit like
               | blaming African countries for burning our e-waste. We
               | can't pretend you can generate pounds of single-use
               | plastic waste per person and have the problem disappear
               | when you put it in a blue bin. Recycling is a lie
               | invented by the packaging industry, and the reality is
               | that we export the problem in bulk to the developing
               | world, who inconveniently happen to share a planet,
               | physics, and economy with us. We're the ones buying the
               | plastic to begin with, and it's only right it washes
               | onshore back here so we can't pretend it doesn't exist
               | when it hits the bin.
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | The Philippines accounts for 0.16% of the world's waste
               | plastic imports. Switzerland imports 10x more plastic
               | waste and the Netherlands imports 100x more. Your
               | explanation is very wrong.
               | 
               | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-plastic-waste-
               | impor...
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Well, probably not the nurdles themselves unless they're
           | scooped from the oceans and used as a food additive, but
           | they'll break down into microplastics and enter the food
           | chain that way. The damage of said microplastics is still
           | being researched, at the moment (I believe) it's still fairly
           | vague, not unlike asbestos or smoking. IIRC they have been
           | found to mimic hormones though.
        
             | ptk wrote:
             | What do you find vague about the studied effects of smoking
             | or asbestos? Or did you mistype and mean "unlike" instead
             | of "not unlike"?
        
               | davidjhall wrote:
               | I think they meant "not unlike" as - we didn't think
               | asbestos was bad, then we thought it _could_ be bad, then
               | yes, after studies, this is really awful. Similarly, we
               | might find that ingested plastics cause more damage than
               | we realize now.
        
               | jdietrich wrote:
               | There was never any doubt about asbestos, we just didn't
               | care.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nellie_Kershaw
        
       | zombot wrote:
       | Wow, Texas seems to be one of the worst offenders here. How do
       | you collect close to 1000 nurdles in 10 minutes? Do people wade
       | through them on the beach?
        
         | api wrote:
         | That doesn't necessarily mean they are all coming from Texas
         | though does it? It could mean ocean currents are carrying them
         | there. I think the idea here is we have maps of ocean currents
         | and can trace them to their likely source.
        
           | whythre wrote:
           | That's a good point. Texas beaches are the cul-de-sac of the
           | Gulf Coast. Makes sense that trash would collect there.
        
       | amatix wrote:
       | There's a similar UK initiative which has spread to a number of
       | other countries.
       | 
       | Nurdles are everywhere... https://www.nurdlehunt.org.uk/nurdle-
       | finds.html
        
         | amar-laksh wrote:
         | Oh thanks! I was looking for something similar when I posted.
        
       | yashasolutions wrote:
       | Here are the real nurds
        
       | rc_kas wrote:
       | In sprite of all the Trumps and Putins and Netanyahu's out there.
       | This project is just that reminder : There really are good humans
       | in the world.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-11 23:01 UTC)