[HN Gopher] OS/2 TCPBEUI Name Resolution
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       OS/2 TCPBEUI Name Resolution
        
       Author : kencausey
       Score  : 66 points
       Date   : 2024-10-10 05:46 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.os2museum.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.os2museum.com)
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | _> "Sometimes I have the following problem to deal with: An OS /2
       | system uses NetBIOS over TCP/IP (aka TCPBEUI) and should
       | communicate with a SMB server (likewise using TCPBEUI) on a
       | different subnet."_
       | 
       | I wonder if there is literally anyone else in the world who has
       | this problem in 2024.
       | 
       | Jokes aside, I appreciate the detailed work that OS/2 Museum
       | does. From a developer's point of view it often feels like
       | everything is a Unix nowadays, so it's easy to forget that the PC
       | revolution's mainstream came from very different commercial
       | origins and gradually blended with the more "academic" tech like
       | TCP/IP.
        
         | amaccuish wrote:
         | OS/2 Museum is one of the few sites that can feed my weird
         | fascination with Netware and the old NT domain stuff, it's
         | great for getting an insight like you said in to the pre TCP/IP
         | world.
        
         | giamma wrote:
         | Well, ArcaNoae is still under development [1] and community
         | events are still being organized [2]
         | 
         | [1] https://www.arcanoae.com/roadmaps/arcaos/ [2]
         | https://www.arcanoae.com/blog/
        
           | stuaxo wrote:
           | Wish they had a community version I could play with, but
           | understand they would be worried about cannibalising their
           | already small market.
           | 
           | Still, for something that I have only really used in one job
           | for a year, I'm not going to try it out further without some
           | sort of try-before-you-buy, even if it might be interesting.
        
             | giamma wrote:
             | I think they are not really interested in individual users,
             | they aim at corporations having legacy applications that
             | run on OS/2 only, so the goal is to make the system
             | virtualization friendly and runnable on more recent
             | hardware.
             | 
             | That said, my understanding (as a former OS/2 user 3
             | decades ago), is that a community edition cannot exist
             | because IBM and MS still hold the copyright and
             | intellectual property and the software cannot be
             | distributed for free.
        
             | wolrah wrote:
             | > Wish they had a community version I could play with, but
             | understand they would be worried about cannibalising their
             | already small market.
             | 
             | They may not have a choice either. IBM still owns OS/2.
             | ArcaOS, like eComStation before it, is a licensed
             | distribution. Their FAQ entry on refunds indicates that
             | they have to pay IBM for their part of every license and
             | that portion is both nonrefundable and nontransferable so
             | if they refund a license they've lost that amount. It also
             | presumably sets a lower bound on how little they could
             | charge without actually losing money on every copy
             | distributed. It would not actually surprise me to find out
             | that their "personal edition" license is as cheap as they
             | can consider "worth it" to offer.
             | 
             | IBM clearly stopped caring about growing the OS/2 market
             | decades ago and I don't think Arca Noae really has any
             | ambition to either. It's not like there's any realistic
             | scenario where it suddenly becomes appealing as a target
             | platform for anyone not already heavily invested in it
             | outside of occasional hobbyists. The lack of any concept of
             | users and privilege levels makes it undesirable for most
             | desktop and server use cases that don't basically come down
             | to "appliance" and as an appliance it's hard to see what
             | OS/2 via ArcaOS on modern x86 offers over more popular
             | platforms, especially with the 32 bit 4GB ceiling forever
             | overhead. Changing those things would require substantial
             | compatibility breaks which is not really viable when your
             | core business is supporting environments that don't want to
             | change their software.
        
             | cduzz wrote:
             | I recently (well, 2 years ago now? Recent relative to os/2
             | I guess) installed warp on an omnibook 800ct. You can get
             | the warp disks off of the os2 museum...
             | 
             | Actually, I installed it onto a virtualbox guest of an old
             | mac that was using an old compact flash card on a usb ->
             | ide adapter, and then I moved that to the computer...
             | 
             | Anyhow, it all "worked" ; I even got some old games working
             | on it. Blast from the past...
        
         | systems_glitch wrote:
         | Probably. I run all the old, insecure machines on their own
         | subnet and physical segment, and some of the "keep them going"
         | services are hosted on VMs running on our modern VM hosts.
         | We've got a few things that have to cross the router/firewall
         | between the two networks, not SMB currently though.
        
           | transpute wrote:
           | Which hypervisor(s) support OS/2?
        
             | blokey wrote:
             | VMware ESXi does.
        
             | giamma wrote:
             | Based on documentation, ArcaNoae comes with support for
             | large hard drives, newer video chips, USB etc etc.. I guess
             | it should run on most hypervisor(s) or virtualization
             | systems, provided you use a humble hardware configuration
             | (e.g. no need to use GBs or RAM) even VirtualBox or KVM
             | most likely will work. But whether it's supported by the
             | hypervisor vendor or not is a different story.
             | 
             | Plain OS/2 did not receive any update for 20+ years, it's
             | installer won't work on modern hardware/virtualization
             | systems.
        
             | lproven wrote:
             | Only VirtualBox that I know of. Innotek originally wrote it
             | for that task.
        
         | blantonl wrote:
         | I remember we thought it was straight up wizardry when we could
         | get two OS/2 Lan Server servers to communicate over a _network
         | that we didn 't control_ via Netbios over TCP/IP. It was like
         | the dawn of a new age!
        
           | GeekyBear wrote:
           | I had a buddy who worked in customer service for an earlY
           | ISP, and his co-workers were shocked that he could print to
           | the Windows NT print server at work from the dial up internet
           | connection he used at home.
           | 
           | Broadcast name resolution couldn't work over his dial up
           | internet connection, but you could still manually set up an
           | LMHosts file on his home Win95 box.
        
       | ay wrote:
       | A tangentially related networking trivia that probably won't be
       | useful to anyone here:
       | 
       | NetBEUI (the original MS networking, running directly over
       | Ethernet rather than TCP/IP), was using LLC-2 Ethernet frames,
       | and as such it was a great way to test DLSw (data link switching)
       | in a very simple lab (two windows 95 machines, separated by two
       | routers, connected via IP link).
       | 
       | Why was that ever a thing? Because of
       | 
       | https://www.ibm.com/docs/en/zos-basic-skills?topic=llc2-how-...
       | 
       | And most of IBM networking used Token Ring rather than Ethernet,
       | which was harder to get hold of and more expensive.
        
         | nyrikki wrote:
         | A bit of additional information.
         | 
         | NetBEUI, which was originally part of a unified NETBIOS, before
         | the latter became what remained after the API separated out due
         | to the rise of routed networks was an IBM invention.
         | 
         | NetBEUI wasn't dependant on Ethernet, and in the late 80s
         | ARCNET was quite popular because it was cheaper and more
         | reliable than coax based Ethernet, especially with thinnet T
         | adapters.
         | 
         | Tokenring is closer IBMs response to the DIX consortium getting
         | the ISO to adopt Ethernet as a standard, trying to maintain the
         | domonice they had with SNA.
         | 
         | By the time windows 95 was released, inexpensive twisted pair
         | Ethernet was quite popular. But when that physical layer market
         | was developing LAN segment communications were the main
         | drivers.
         | 
         | Novell releasing low cost ne2000 cards had a lot to do with
         | Ethernet winning out in systems that were small enough to not
         | be forced into proprietary solutions.
        
       | blantonl wrote:
       | This really brings back some memories. My first career in IT was
       | supporting and implementing an OS/2 Lan Server based banking
       | implementation for a regional bank in the south. The bank
       | deployed what was essentially a massive flat token ring based
       | network interconnected via Fiber to regional areas and leased
       | lines to branches. It was not Netbios over TCP/IP, it was
       | straight up Netbios over the entire network. Given Netbios is
       | broadcast based for resolution, broadcast storms were common
       | across the network, so a gordian knot of filters and configs were
       | setup at the routers to mitigate this. There was no concept of
       | subnet based routing implemented yet.
       | 
       | I ended up taking a job with IBM supporting the TCP/IP stack on
       | top of OS/2. It was a 24 year old me, and a grey beard 60 year
       | old dude that literally supported the entire OS/2 Lan Server
       | TCP/IP stack across the world during the time that corporate
       | networks were just beginning to connect to the Internet. Everyone
       | else on the OS/2 support team at IBM just punted to us anything
       | that was TCP/IP related and thought we were wizards or something.
       | What a wild time to be alive.
        
         | kbmr wrote:
         | how long were you doing that for? Did the grey beard finish his
         | career at IBM?
        
         | thedougd wrote:
         | Cool! I have fond memories of installing the TCPIP stack on top
         | of Warp with a six(?) disk set.
         | 
         | As a teenager I had a PS/2 with a token ring card and an
         | additional serial ports card. OS/2 let us run a PPP server for
         | Winsock clients. We used it for Quake and other lan games.
        
           | zabzonk wrote:
           | I remember installing a horribly expensive Ethernet card on
           | an Altos SCO Xenix box, which required recompiling the kernel
           | to install the drivers (on 5 inch floppies). I was convinced
           | this would never work, but magically it did! Things were a
           | lot tougher back in those days.
           | 
           | Oh, and Token Ring, where you could almost see the token
           | crawling around the ring, like an arthritic snail.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-10 23:01 UTC)