[HN Gopher] On 17th century "cocaine"
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On 17th century "cocaine"
Author : benbreen
Score : 33 points
Date : 2024-10-09 13:33 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (resobscura.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (resobscura.substack.com)
| mastazi wrote:
| Can anyone with a scientific background give an opinion about the
| first comment to the linked post? They say they are sceptical
| because "there are a number of Tropane alkaloids which are very
| close to cocaine and are present in other plants - especially
| nightshades (e.g., belladonna) - which were known to and used for
| various purposes by Europeans for a long time."
| Etheryte wrote:
| As you would expect, this is covered in the actual paper [0]:
|
| > Therefore, the 3rd molecule detected in the brain tissues of
| our subjects, hygrine (an alkaloid present in the leaves of
| Erythroxylum spp. only), was essential to determine that the
| molecules detected in these human remains derived from the
| chewing of coca leaves or from leaves brewed as a tea,
| consistent with the historical period.
|
| If I'm reading this right, they checked for a number of markers
| and one of those is found only in coca leaves.
|
| [0]
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030544032...
| mastazi wrote:
| Thank you! I should have thought of checking the paper first
| benbreen wrote:
| Author here, I had the same question and looked into it. The
| author of that comment seems to be onto something because
| hygrine is indeed found in nightshades as well as in coca.
| Interesting.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| The research group behind the paper looks reliable, they have a
| publication record in the area and while it's surprising they
| can detect metabolites (and surprising that brains were
| preserved from the 1600s) they seem to have done a lot of
| detailed work, here's some of their other related work (they
| also found cannabis residues in some of their material):
|
| "Forensic toxicological analyses reveal the use of cannabis in
| Milano (Italy) in the 1600's (2023)"
|
| https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Forensic-toxicological...
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| >As you can see, the Times was not the only news outlet to be
| confused about the distinction between cocaine and coca
|
| Unfortunately, the author of this article is the one who is
| confused. Cocaine is the name of the alkaloid present in the coca
| leaf, much like the coffee bean contains caffeine. If they were
| using coca leaf, they were using cocaine.
| Clamchop wrote:
| TFA literally already says what you said. They're making a
| reasonable distinction between chewing coca leaves for mild
| stimulant effect and huffing a fat rail of the pure stuff.
|
| It gives the wrong idea to say these 17th century people were
| doing cocaine.
| Mtinie wrote:
| They _were_ using cocaine. It was a less concentrated form,
| sure, but it's still using the same substance for a
| psychoactive effect.
| JasserInicide wrote:
| Anyone here ever actually try coca leaves? Going to guess its
| effects are somewhere between coffee and cocaine
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Only coca tea. It's a small boost, perhaps like coffee if you
| don't drink coffee everyday
| sddsdd wrote:
| Had a lot of them chewed or in tea in Bolivia and it's pretty
| close to a caffeine buzz, it's very, very mild.
| analog31 wrote:
| I think it's pretty common for visitors to Macha Picchu to
| receive a cup of coca tea upon arrival, for altitude sickness.
| The people I talked to said it was like a cup of coffee.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I can attest to the magical effects against altitude
| sickness.
| pvarangot wrote:
| I used to drink coca tea a lot when I lived in Argentina where
| you get it in the supermarket. It's around on par of nicotine
| as an appetite suppressant for me, as a stimulant I feel
| caffeine and mate are better for the "stay awake" but coca tea
| is better for "zoning in", with less of anxiety driving but
| it's a more single tasked high where interruptions are harder
| to deal with than with caffeine. Like if I have a lot of
| meetings I prefer coffee and if I have to code for four hours I
| prefer coca tea. I used to rotate coffee, mate, and coca tea as
| a daily driver and having something else on the rotation may
| have been helping more than that something else being coca tea.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I used them while hiking in Peru.
|
| It's better than caffeine, because it comes with a mild
| euphoria. Nothing crazy, just enough to have energy and not
| feel like hiking at altitude is work.
|
| When I hike with coffee I just feel determined to finish. With
| Coca it just felt natural to keep walking.
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