[HN Gopher] What Is LibreDrive (2019)
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       What Is LibreDrive (2019)
        
       Author : Tomte
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2024-10-09 02:58 UTC (20 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (forum.makemkv.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (forum.makemkv.com)
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Almost certainly a DMCA violation and therefore illegal to
       | distribute.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | Too bad I already flashed it long time ago into my LG.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I'm not sure why. If the point is to make the firmware read
         | every bit of the drive, that doesn't seem like it would break
         | any copyright law. The encrypted data is rather useless without
         | breaking DRM, but the DRM breaking doesn't happen in hardware.
         | 
         | If the firmware is based on existing, proprietary drive
         | firmware, then distributing it may run afoul of copyright law,
         | but if all that's distributed is a patch file then I don't see
         | the problem there either.
         | 
         | There are quite a few countries with exceptions in copyright
         | law for compatibility reasons, like modifying programs to make
         | them work on newer hardware without the original authors'
         | consent. The reason VLC (and many other open source projects)
         | can play DVDs is that France, where VLC is based, has laws that
         | make it legal to distribute a DVD playback library. I don't
         | think any Linux distros have faced legal trouble over
         | distributing VLC, even if they are American in nature.
         | 
         | I'm sure the copyright lobby will have a different opinion, but
         | I don't think it's quite as black and white without knowing
         | where the author resides and/it what nationality they have.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | Because the purpose is to read disks protected by
           | technological protection measures. Circumventing
           | technological protection measures is illegal, period. That's
           | one of the things many people don't like about the DMCA. I'd
           | recommend to start archiving this website now.
        
             | tombert wrote:
             | I mean, the post is from 2019, and MakeMKV has been around
             | much longer than that. I know this isn't always the case,
             | but I feel like if they were going to take down MakeMKV's
             | site, they probably would have done it by now.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | They thought that about Yuzu, too.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | MakeMKV has been around considerably longer than Yuzu
               | ever was. I think I first downloaded it in 2013-2014.
               | 
               | Not to say that the MPAA isn't ever going to go after it,
               | but I am sure they're aware of it by now and have, if
               | nothing else, been biding their time.
        
           | tempfile wrote:
           | The DMCA is American law, so the parent comment can only be
           | referring to America. Obviously doesn't apply outside there.
           | 
           | > I don't think any Linux distros have faced legal trouble
           | over distributing VLC, even if they are American in nature.
           | 
           | That's because they generally don't distribute libdvdcss,
           | which is the illegal part.
           | 
           | > Many Linux distributions do not contain libdvdcss (for
           | example, Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora and openSUSE) due to fears of
           | running afoul of DMCA-style laws, but they often provide the
           | tools to let the user install it themselves. For example, it
           | used to be available in Ubuntu through Medibuntu, which is no
           | longer available.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss#Distribution
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | Maybe to the letter of the law, but I think there's a reason
         | why no one seems to go after MakeMKV.
         | 
         | If you're _using_ MakeMKV, then almost by definition you have a
         | legitimate copy of the media you're ripping, and as such not a
         | direct target of any kind of piracy prevention. Obviously you
         | could then post your rip on The Pirate Bay or something, but I
         | don't think that MakeMKV is generally blamed for that.
         | 
         | I have a ton of Blu-Ray movies purchased legitimately, and I
         | use MakeMKV to rip them and play them with Jellyfin. I don't
         | distribute them, I only play them in my house.
         | 
         | Am I technically breaking the law? Probably, DRM law is weird
         | and confusing in the US, but I doubt that the MPAA has a huge
         | problem with what I am doing, since I _am_ paying them for
         | legitimate copies of my movies.
        
       | opengears wrote:
       | Using libredrive supported devices - would we get some other
       | advantages? Like being able to read from old and broken CDROM and
       | DVD devices more reliably?
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | No, it actually makes it "worse" in that most usual DVD players
         | and drives will do a "best effort, but keep going" type of read
         | which may result in a pop or skip or desync for a moment on
         | playback - but these tools are archival and refuse to read if
         | they can't read correctly.
         | 
         | It's actually quite annoying at times, for example it's often
         | better to rip audiobooks with iTunes and then grab the files
         | and delete it from iTunes than to use something like XLD
         | directly.
        
       | lloydatkinson wrote:
       | I remember several years ago when I wanted to watch a Star Wars
       | DVD on a computer.
       | 
       | This was in the UK with the DVDs purchased in the UK and with a
       | DVD reader also purchased in the UK, as that's where I live.
       | 
       | Windows Media Player told me that the region of the Disc was
       | wrong and that if I wanted to watch it, it could instruct the
       | firmware on the DVD player to update its allowed region, but that
       | I could only do this (I think) five times and no more.
       | 
       | Rather than dealing with this pompous bullshit I watched it with
       | VLC player which just worked without doing any of that legal
       | nonsense.
       | 
       | I've remained a big advocate of VLC ever since.
        
         | alias_neo wrote:
         | I had a tangentially related situation many (~20?) years ago
         | when I bought a music album released under Sony, I had a sweet
         | PC based Hi-Fi setup, and the DRM ring they'd added to the disc
         | meant it wouldn't play back at anything above MP3 128.
         | 
         | I noticed a ~1.5cm ring around the outside of the disc was
         | visibly a different colour/texture to the standard audio part;
         | I tried blanking it out with Sharpie which some people online
         | suggested might work, but eventually gave up and contacted Sony
         | to tell them how pissed off I was that they were preventing PC-
         | based music listeners from listening to what they'd bought.
         | They sent back an apology and a new copy of the disk without
         | the DRM/MP3 crap.
         | 
         | I bet LibreDrive might have worked by letting me just read the
         | disc raw and grab the bits I need.
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | Sony really did crazy stuff for "copy protection" on their
           | CDs ...
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_roo.
           | ..
        
             | n1b0m wrote:
             | "Sony BMG initially denied that the rootkits were harmful.
             | It then released an uninstaller for one of the programs
             | that merely made the program's files invisible while also
             | installing additional software that could not be easily
             | removed, collected an email address from the user and
             | introduced further security vulnerabilities."
             | 
             | That's diabolical
        
               | AtlasBarfed wrote:
               | It was likely very illegal as well, but you know big
               | company and a legal system that is/was decades behind the
               | state of the art
        
         | p0w3n3d wrote:
         | This is called freedom
        
         | l72 wrote:
         | I had a similar issue, of moving from the US to Germany in 2000
         | and my spouse bringing her favorite DVDs with us. However, once
         | we got there, she was unable to watch any of them, as all the
         | DVD players were for the EU region, while her DVDs were for the
         | US.
         | 
         | She is not a technical person, but she is now very acutely
         | aware of B.S. restrictions like this (and later DRM on mp3s)
         | and how to get around them.
        
       | swijck wrote:
       | I love how we have gone full circle on retro technology.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | makemkv itself is also tremendously useful.
       | 
       | Got some inconvenient to work with BD or DVD? Just dump it into a
       | mkv file with makemkv, and now it is convenient to work with.
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | It is worth pointing out that MakeMKV has a CLI you can use it
         | without the GUI. I have a batch file that rips the main movie
         | from my BD drive and names the MKV based on the BD disc label.
         | My script is old enough I wrote it myself, but ChatGPT/Claude
         | could easily do a better job.
         | 
         | When combining MakeMKV's CLI and Handbrake's CLI there is an
         | easy and very repeatable path of going from disc to an
         | optimized MP4. Some might think it is sacrilegious to use MP4
         | instead of MKV. I've found MP4s with H264 video and AC3 audio
         | can play almost everywhere (for me: Xbox, Roku, iPhone/Safari,
         | Edge, Android, most smart TVs) now, and support surround sound.
        
           | doublepg23 wrote:
           | I don't think anyone is against using different containers
           | for compatibility, you can remux from mkv to mp4 very easily
           | with ffmpeg directly. However it's a little odd to go through
           | the intermediate step of using MakeMKV if you're just
           | compressing the resulting remux using Handbrake. Usually the
           | point of MakeMKV is to get the highest quality copies of
           | retail media.
        
             | downut wrote:
             | "... you can remux from mkv to mp4 very easily with ffmpeg
             | directly."
             | 
             | According to the HandBrake docs (ISTR) mp4 can't handle
             | multiple languages and subtitle sets, so the conversion
             | mkv->mp4 is (potentially) lossy. I'm no expert, just trying
             | to keep the language/subtitle sets I want, maybe I've
             | missed something here. What I do so far is HB encode to
             | Matroska, not MPEG-4. Then I don't lose any of the ones I
             | want. Also I have noticed sometimes MakeMKV is not entirely
             | inclusive in its defaults and I have to add extra
             | languages/subtitles.
        
       | janandonly wrote:
       | Very interesting set of posts. I feel that when this website goes
       | dark and the last grey-beards stops blogging, this kind of arcane
       | information will be lost forever.
       | 
       | This makes me sad.
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | But but but but AI will remember!
         | 
         | That does make me think about the fact that AI LLMs could be
         | useful at archiving specific fields that are "obsolete".
         | 
         | An archive of documents, presentations, research papers tech
         | specs, relevant code, etc could be prepped and expended over
         | the years for the field/technology/etc. it would be nice having
         | an LLM specifically known to target that body of knowledge so
         | the prompt subclauses to filter out the rest of the general
         | internet bullcrap.
        
       | pdpi wrote:
       | > LibreDrive functionality is implemented as part of open-source
       | LibDriveIO library (at the time of this writing the library
       | source code is not yet released)
       | 
       | This was posted in 2019. As of today, there is still no published
       | source code.
        
         | rfl890 wrote:
         | See this forum post[1] for some insight on the situation
         | 
         | [1]:
         | https://forum.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24312#post_c...
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | Based on this and my experience with the world, I suspect
           | that he's protecting a revenue stream but intends to open-
           | source the code when he retires or no longer depends on the
           | stream.
        
       | junaru wrote:
       | Correct me if i'm wrong but its not even exploiting some firmware
       | bug or anything.
       | 
       | Think there is a 'plugin interface' in those firmware that
       | exposes whatever is needed to read the raw data so all it does is
       | uses that interface to dump data instead of using the official
       | calls. IIRC its why the read speeds are slower.
       | 
       | Source: some post on the same forum couple of years ago.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Depends on the drive. Early drive firmwares were unencrypted
         | and left debug features available. Modern drives use encrypted
         | firmware and have the debug modes disabled. If you've got one
         | of those early firmwares, you're good to go. If not, you'll
         | need to patch your drive.
         | 
         | However, "encrypted" is fairly weak compared to, say, a game
         | console when the key is the same for all drives and there's no
         | hardware-level anti-rollback...
         | 
         | As a result, it was fairly easily defeated on modern drives.
         | Find key, decrypt firmware, make changes, re-encrypt, update.
         | Thanks MediaTek for keeping the same flawed legally-approved
         | chip architecture for almost a decade.
        
           | therein wrote:
           | I love MediaTek for these things. Same for "old" Android
           | phones.
        
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