[HN Gopher] Private equity ruins tech companies
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       Private equity ruins tech companies
        
       Author : achariam
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2024-10-07 21:11 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.zmh.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.zmh.org)
        
       | nick__m wrote:
       | The title could be generalized to "Private equity firms ruins
       | companies"
        
         | TheAdamist wrote:
         | Tech seems to accelerate the decline though, without the
         | inertia of physical stores or plants to slow things down.
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | I haven't been to the dentist in 4 years and I'm hell-bent on
         | finding one that is not part of PE or any type of corporate
         | ownership. I'm prepared to drive to rural areas or hours away
         | because I will not trust that their incentives are aligned with
         | mine.
        
           | antonyt wrote:
           | Is there an easy way to discover whether or not a given
           | business is owned by PE?
        
       | throwaway9010 wrote:
       | I've seen firsthand how PE ruins startups. I joined a seed co and
       | our founder went with a PE firm rather than a VC for our next
       | round. The VCs were upfront about job cuts but the PE investors
       | did not say anything until they took over.
       | 
       | Needless to say, the founder got a good paycheck but we were left
       | holding the bag.
       | 
       | It was a bloodbath and they completely ruined the culture,
       | product, morale, and any semblance of growth. It was personally
       | the most stressful period of my working life...
       | 
       | From then on, the moment that I see private equity mentioned
       | anywhere, I know its time to run.
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | Isn't venture capital merely a kind of private equity?
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | VC is musical chairs waiting for the greater fool to come
           | along. Still good times. PE is the chop shop, there is no
           | greater fool left except the customers and the employees. End
           | of the road.
        
         | 23david wrote:
         | It sounds unusual for a seed-stage company (I assume that's
         | what you mean) to seek funding from private equity. Did the
         | company already have significant revenue and profitability? Why
         | did the founder go for private equity rather than VC.. was the
         | founder basically looking to sell/exit at that point?
        
           | throwaway9010 wrote:
           | Yeah exactly - it was essentially at the revenue of series B
           | or C at that point. This is in 2021 during the height of
           | ZIRP, so I assume part of it was frothiness but the aftermath
           | was terrible.
        
       | earnesti wrote:
       | This is not really news. The question is, what there is to do? I
       | think that it is logical to sell your company to highest bidder
       | when you want to exit, and often the highest bidder ends up being
       | a PE firm.
        
         | mostlysimilar wrote:
         | Be a founder that wants to build a long-term business that
         | employs people that want to create a good product. Be an
         | employee that will only work for companies founded by those
         | people.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | This. Also, importantly, you need ownership and governance
           | mechanisms as a founder so employees are partners.
        
         | csa wrote:
         | > I think that it is logical to sell your company to highest
         | bidder when you want to exit
         | 
         | Some founders are more than happy to sell at a lower price _if_
         | they think the lower bidder will be a good custodian of the
         | company.
         | 
         | "Good custodian" is relative, but often means things like
         | treating existing employees well, trying to maintain the best
         | parts of the company culture, keeping clients happy, keeping
         | the quality of the product or service of a company at a high
         | level, etc.
         | 
         | Sometimes founders realize that an extra bag of money on top of
         | the multiple bags they are already getting won't buy them self-
         | respect.
         | 
         | Fiduciary responsibility can make this murky sometimes, but
         | that's a cop out more often than not, imho.
        
       | vintagedave wrote:
       | This is an aspect of the Wordpress vs WPEngine I hadn't
       | considered. Does anyone who's more familiar with WPEngine than me
       | know if the VC ownership has affected its behavior?
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | Is there a company out there that has survived a gutting by PE?
        
         | blakesterz wrote:
         | Last I heard Barnes and Noble was doing pretty good:
         | 
         | https://www.theverge.com/23642104/barnes-and-noble-amazon-bo...
        
           | tcmart14 wrote:
           | B&N is also probably the only example I can think of that has
           | gotten somewhat better since. But I also wonder if its an
           | outlier even worth considering. I don't work at B&N, so this
           | is me making a guess. They don't have any kind of patents
           | (software or otherwise), so no real valuable IP, its just a
           | straight forward business. Not a disruptor of tech. No
           | manufacturing, or at least manufacturing it is highly
           | dependent on. There is nothing really in their line of
           | business that makes it worth it for a brain drain to reduce
           | cost and sell it higher than what you bought it for. But I'd
           | also guess there are few to no people who want to enter the
           | book selling business. So if your a PE firm that is gonna
           | acquire it, your only option is to actually run it halfway
           | decently? I guess maybe they could have slimmed it down to
           | virtually nothing and tried to sell it to Amazon, but I
           | wonder if that merger would be allowed to go through?
        
         | twoodfin wrote:
         | Dell seems to be doing OK.
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | It depends entirely on the strategy. Sometimes PE invests to
         | help a business acquire other businesses
        
         | SpicyLemonZest wrote:
         | Yes. The specific equity firm that owns WP Engine has multiple
         | notable successes, including Skype, GoDaddy, and Dell.
         | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Lake_(investment_firm))
        
           | jacknews wrote:
           | Have these companies actually improved since being acquired,
           | or just not collapsed?
        
       | Apreche wrote:
       | Even if that's true, that's even less reason to attack them and
       | make yourself look terrible. Just wait and they'll destroy
       | themselves.
        
         | mathstuf wrote:
         | Sure, but the blast radius still has to be considered. Working
         | to reduce that is certainly a worthwhile endeavor even if the
         | end state is the same.
        
           | bawolff wrote:
           | Working to reduce what? The risk of wpengine over extending
           | and going bankrupt? So we try and bankrupt them earlier? This
           | makes no sense.
        
             | mathstuf wrote:
             | Campaign to stop PE takeovers, stop investing in/consuming
             | from PE-backed firms, refuse to work for them (a highly
             | privileged option, but more likely to be available for
             | tech), etc. Basically a boycott.
        
       | bawolff wrote:
       | It seems like none of the issues with wpengine have anything to
       | do with private equity. The article just said private equity
       | sucks, which sure i will grant, but that doesn't say anything
       | about this particular conflict. Private equity isn't responsible
       | for literally every sin in the world.
       | 
       | I feel like this article is essentially a smear piece - wpengine
       | is associated with private equity therefor is not deserving of
       | sympathy. Or something like that.
        
       | skybrian wrote:
       | It would be good to explain the difference between PE funding and
       | VC funding.
        
         | dzink wrote:
         | VC relies on you growing enough to attract bigger investors in
         | the future at a higher valuation, including going public. PE
         | bets on you having a really reliable cash flow that they could
         | strap a bunch of debt on to extract the cash in a tax-favored
         | government-subsidized fashion.
        
       | usaphp wrote:
       | Hmm, why was this removed from a homepage?
        
       | dzink wrote:
       | This reads like it was written by generative AI. Private equity
       | is often the vulture a company is sold to when the founders can't
       | take it public or find a symbiotic merger first. In a traditional
       | LBO it loads the company with debt, based on a steady stream of
       | cash flows. The cash flows are key. It's akin to having a wild
       | stallion which grew up fast and beautiful and then putting a
       | saddle on its back and an ore behind it. In public companies that
       | looks like going from a growth stock to a dividend stock to a
       | high dividend stock that people only buy for tax purposes because
       | the dividend is less than the devaluation in stock price over
       | time. You can look at the financial statements of companies or
       | the details in any stock app and you can see where they are at in
       | this maturation curve. Then invest your time and money
       | accordingly.
        
       | jonathaneunice wrote:
       | A single example is insufficient, especially when that example is
       | Drupal.
       | 
       | In a former life I evaluated WordPress, Drupal, and some other
       | open source CMSs. Drupal seemed remarkably terrible. Maybe I just
       | wasn't the target user...but UI, UX, and DX all seemed blighted
       | and the ecosystem much less vibrant than WP's. Came away thinking
       | it was a vestige of yesteryear, and not something in which to
       | invest any time, energy, or money.
       | 
       | Maybe that's a harsh take on Drupal, but one already-seemingly-
       | in-decline property from which one PE firm extracted value... if
       | over-extraction and under-investment really is a systemic problem
       | of PE, there must be many more, much better examples.
        
         | itsdrewmiller wrote:
         | If you look at the chart, Drupal starts declining immediately
         | upon being purchased. Hard to imagine Vista was able to destroy
         | the community that quickly; seems more likely they bought high
         | on Acquia, or even Acquia was doing something sneaky to juice
         | its sale price.
        
       | joegibbs wrote:
       | PE are vultures: vultures feed on dead animals, not healthy ones.
       | You don't sell off a successful, thriving business to be gutted
       | and restructured because you're going to make much more money
       | keeping it going the same way.
       | 
       | "Private equity backed companies are 10 times more likely to go
       | bankrupt than public companies." - is this because they're
       | running successful companies into the ground or because the kind
       | of companies that get eaten up by PE are the ones that are
       | failing anyway?
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-07 23:01 UTC)