[HN Gopher] uBlock Origin supports filtering CNAME cloaking site...
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       uBlock Origin supports filtering CNAME cloaking sites on Firefox
       now
        
       Author : gslin
       Score  : 133 points
       Date   : 2024-10-07 20:52 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | RockRobotRock wrote:
       | CNAME cloaking? Does this mean an ad site may use a randomly
       | generated subdomain pointing to a wildcard record?
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | Yes. Ads and analytics providers have started doing this to get
         | around third-party cookie protections.
        
           | 404mm wrote:
           | This is such an intrusion of privacy. I wish I could just
           | disable cookies entirely but the usability of many webpages
           | just goes down. I should not be punished for not wanting 3rd
           | party trackers.
        
             | jrockway wrote:
             | Before I get too alarmed someone would have to tell me how
             | an adsite.com cookie is being sent to adsite.example.com.
             | This workaround seems to let adsite.com profile me as well
             | as example.com already can, but it loses the ability to
             | correlate my activity across example2.com and example.com
             | with a single cookie.
             | 
             | (I guess ad providers have gotten good enough to not need
             | cookies? Like they know my browser window size, installed
             | fonts, GPU vendor and model, IP address, geolocation,
             | header order, etc. so they don't even need cookies anymore
             | to track my activity across the web? I suppose it was only
             | a matter of time.)
        
               | bongodongobob wrote:
               | Browser profiling has been a thing for at least a decade
               | if I'm not mistaken.
        
               | jrockway wrote:
               | Makes sense. "I am session abcdef12345" always seemed
               | significantly guaranteed to me, but in a world with ad
               | blockers and third-party cookie restrictions, using
               | heuristics is the only way forward.
               | 
               | It's somewhat scary how much information our browsers
               | leak to unknown parties.
               | 
               | (I don't really take sides on this. I use an ad blocker
               | and am very anti-ad, but am impressed when ad companies
               | come up with tech to thwart them. The cat-and-mouse game
               | is entertaining to read about.)
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | I always find this development curious. About a decade ago I
           | worked in this space. When someone brought up ad blockers I
           | just said "put the analytics on our main domain. No one is
           | going to block the entire website". The answer I got was "no
           | one would ever do that because of the implications of serving
           | advertising from your main domain". Yet, here we are.
        
             | alerighi wrote:
             | They use a third party domain just because that way they
             | can track the user actions with cookies, for example Google
             | can track your navigation across multiple websites, and
             | thus propose to you more relevant ads. Also using a
             | different domain was simpler and cheaper, since you don't
             | have to host the AD content and metadata, just include the
             | JS from the AD provider somewhere in your HTML.
             | 
             | Now that thanks to EU laws and browser imposing
             | restrictions about third-party cookies it's more difficult,
             | the whole "serve ads from other domain" may not be that
             | relevant anyway.
             | 
             | If you use a random wildcard subdomain... just serve them
             | from the main website, what is the difference? On the other
             | side with a proxy just route the AD requests to another
             | server if it needs to be, of course you have to find a way
             | to distinguish which requests are for AD and which are not,
             | something you can do with some sort of signature in the
             | filename, so that only the server can know which requests
             | shall be handled locally and which one forwarded to the AD
             | provider server.
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | News payers used to all serve their own ads including in
             | house sales and design. Frankly with how key advertising is
             | I don't understand why anyone would out source it.
        
               | 627467 wrote:
               | This. Everyone and their grandma decided it's cool for
               | Google and others to decide what should display on your
               | website next to your content because of "magic online
               | advertising".
               | 
               | How much of the efficiency of online advertising comes
               | from the actual "art" of tracking users and their
               | preferences to display "personalized" ads vs the
               | "efficiencies" from firing/outsourcing your marketing, ad
               | sales and creative workforce.
        
               | Groxx wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
             | hypeatei wrote:
             | What are the implications?
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | It more or less boiled down to "we would be labeled an
               | advertiser and not a destination for information on the
               | internet". Like being an advertiser stopped people from
               | using Google search or something
        
               | debit-freak wrote:
               | Presumably that adblockers (or rather their users) would
               | object to blocking domains that folks might actually want
               | to load content from. I can't imagine "domain" is the
               | only signal one could use to identify ads, though. To
               | truly befuddle them you'd make advertisements truly
               | indistinguishable from content. This is not trivial.
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | Not entirely true. If you lower the quality of your
               | content enough the advertisements are in fact
               | indistinguishable. I often enjoy reading the "chumbox" at
               | the bottom of the news article more than the reporting
               | itself
        
           | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
           | There is a part of me that, at a high level, appreciates the
           | back and forth between the user and the ad industry. On a
           | personal level, I am slowly getting to the point, where I am
           | less.. uhh.. understanding.
           | 
           | That said, the average person's conception of what acceptable
           | needs to change. I did briefly think that they need suffer
           | through more ad-infestation first, but I realized that the
           | answer is more in line with what my wife seemed to have gone
           | through. The low exposure to ads made her less willing to
           | deal with them. This might be the way forward.
           | 
           | It is hard for a person used to existing ecosystem to even
           | imagine, there could be something better.
        
         | nodja wrote:
         | That's part of it.
         | 
         | Normally when you visit contentsite.com which serves ads from
         | adsite.com. Adblocker rules can just block adsite.com and the
         | ads won't be shown. CNAME cloaking would have the main site
         | have a subdomain like adsite.contentsite.com point to
         | adsite.com, now the adblockers have the impossible task of
         | blocking millions of subdomains that seemingly belong to legit
         | sites, this also allows the legit sites to keep changing the
         | subdomain since the adblocker will have no idea which
         | subdomains serve legit content vs ads. As a bonus since the
         | content is being served from the same domain, they can bypass
         | certain cookie browser policies and track users even better.
         | 
         | This update allows you to set rules so that you can filter by
         | resolved ip.
        
           | synergy20 wrote:
           | this reminds me of domainfronting, who was a super smart way
           | to get around of ads and other sites blockers, not sure if
           | it's all 'fixed' now.
        
       | vifon wrote:
       | The title seems to be wrong, uBlock Origin supported it for many
       | years at this point (only on Firefox). This seems to be a
       | refactor of that code, not a whole new feature.
        
         | wild_pointer wrote:
         | Well, it does support it now. It supported it before, too :P
        
       | itohihiyt wrote:
       | uBlock Origin is what makes Firefox even greater and definitely
       | one big reason I use Firefox over Chrome etc. It make the
       | Internet browsable.
        
         | jajko wrote:
         | I moved many years ago to this combo, and never saw a single
         | reason to switch away. Same for android phone, the only usable
         | mobile web experience I've seen. Those few sites over a decade
         | that had some display issues had issues also under chrome.
         | 
         | Plus I personally consider ads a cancer of modern society.
         | White and not so white lies, manipulation... nothing
         | respectable regardless (or because ) of tremendous money
         | circulating in it.
        
           | beeflet wrote:
           | I mean there are appropriate applications for advertising
           | (like classifieds in a newspaper), but there is no reason why
           | advertising should be so pervasive that it requires a massive
           | surveillance apparatus like it does today. Advertisements are
           | the reason why everyone switched from TV to Netflix, and
           | that's back when cable TV was a paid service.
           | 
           | secushare[1] makes the case that this is because the internet
           | lacks a secure micropayments layer, so the funding model for
           | everything has to be advertising-based instead of patronage-
           | based. Paypal and the like are exploited as cash cows because
           | of their centralized nature. Cryptocurrencies were later
           | tried but have technical limitations that broadly prohibit
           | this use case (even with payment channels/LN).
           | 
           | [0] https://secushare.org/broken-internet
        
       | jeanlucas wrote:
       | It did not hit me yet, but I'm already rewriting my extensions to
       | firefox to switch if Chrome really axes uBO
        
         | TheGlav wrote:
         | It's not if. It's when. It has been 'when' since 2020. It is
         | coming. It is not going to not come. It will be here in mere
         | releases. Get ready.
        
           | jeanlucas wrote:
           | Yeah, hence why I started already migrating, slowly.
           | 
           | I have a simple tab organizer extension and some greasemonkey
           | scripts that should work perfectly fine on Firefox without
           | any changes.
        
         | c2h5oh wrote:
         | It's already axed in canary release
        
           | jeanlucas wrote:
           | I'm still at the "This extension may soon no longer be
           | supported" warning
        
         | godzillabrennus wrote:
         | I am switching family over to Brave. They don't even notice the
         | difference and I'm more confident the browser will continue to
         | support user centric content filtering.
        
       | Exuma wrote:
       | Is chrome going to block uBO im never up to date on the latest. I
       | do know theyre allowing 3rd party cookies now... so maybe theres
       | a chance
        
         | o11c wrote:
         | Honestly, it probably is going to depend on whether the US
         | continues to have an administration that's willing to take
         | blatant monopolists to court.
        
         | anderskaseorg wrote:
         | They're doing a slow phase-out over a long time to try to avert
         | a wave of bad publicity that threatens their browser monopoly,
         | but that timeline has already started as of June.
         | 
         | https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/develop/migrate...
         | 
         | https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/google/google-chrome-w...
        
         | TheGlav wrote:
         | They're not blocking uBO, they're removing the features in the
         | browser that allowed uBO to work by releasing new plugin APIs,
         | "Manifest v3". They're eliminating the key APIs needed for uBO
         | to identify things that it shouldn't load, and then not load
         | them. Google claims this was for "performance" or "security"
         | reasons. Of course, the only major 'performance' or 'security'
         | affected is the ability to identify, intercept, and stop
         | harmful or ad related downloads before they start.
        
       | lelandbatey wrote:
       | As an example of what CNAME cloaking is, let's say that a SAAS
       | provider A wants to provide you, company Q, with fancy ad
       | tracking software. In the olden days, they'd tell you to embed a
       | script at e.g. https://A-ads-tracking.example into your website
       | at address https://q-company.example
       | 
       | To block those ads, blocklists that uBlock Origin use have rules
       | then that say "block requests being made to the _domain name_
       | A-ads-tracking.example ", which blocks the ads.
       | 
       | CNAME cloaking is where SAAS provider A sets up their ad-tracking
       | services not on domain A-ads-tracking.example, but instead at a
       | specific IP address of e.g. 29.1.2.3; then (and here's the
       | important part) SAAS A tells you Company Q that _you need to set
       | up a subdomain of q-company.example which has a CNAME record
       | pointing to 23.1.2.3_ , a subdomain with an innocuous name like
       | media.q-company.example; once you've set up that CNAME, you at
       | Company Q add a script tag to your website for
       | `media.q-company.example` and now SAAS A is able to track all the
       | users on your site. This indirection allows for effectively
       | infinite cat-and-mouse on the part of you the owner of the Q
       | Company vs the blocklists that the public assemble.
       | 
       | To get around this CNAME cloaking problem, the software powering
       | extensions like uBlock Origin need to be able to see not only the
       | destination domain of requests by browsers, but the underlying IP
       | addresses of those domains as well. This commit makes that
       | behavior possible, or at least is related to making that code
       | work better.
        
         | biglyburrito wrote:
         | Thank you for the breakdown!
        
         | itohihiyt wrote:
         | And this is a good reason to block all JavaScript in unlock
         | advanced and slowly whitelist the scripts you see until the
         | site works properly. Slow and error prone but once you get used
         | to it it's a breeze. And you're completely immune to this sort
         | of shittery.
        
       | marcell wrote:
       | What is the uBI status on Brave, Edge and Opera?
        
         | homebrewer wrote:
         | I don't care about the two proprietary browsers you've
         | mentioned, but Brave is going to (partially) support manifest
         | v2 and maintain uBO compatibility for as long as they're able
         | to:
         | 
         | https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/
         | 
         | Not that you really need it as Brave has its own very capable
         | built-in ad blocker with -- last time I checked -- higher
         | performance than uBO (since it's compiled into native code) and
         | full support for same ad lists.
        
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       (page generated 2024-10-07 23:00 UTC)