[HN Gopher] Self-experiment with L-theanine: effect on sleep and...
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       Self-experiment with L-theanine: effect on sleep and cognition
        
       Author : sheefrex
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2024-10-07 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (metasophi.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (metasophi.com)
        
       | jvans wrote:
       | fitbits and similar are fine for measuring awake vs asleep but
       | really terrible at breaking up the stages
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | I've been curious about this. They all are reporting it,
         | nowadays. I'm assuming they have reason to think they are
         | getting better at it?
        
           | pintxo wrote:
           | I have reason to believe product management wants not to be
           | left behind by the competitors, independent of the quality of
           | their implementation.
        
           | jvans wrote:
           | metrics sell, even when they're not that accurate, and even
           | when people know that.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | They're not as accurate as polysomnography but there is some
         | correlation which should allow these measurements to serve as a
         | useful proxy over 100-180 days. See this review for example:
         | 
         | "The findings of this systematic literature review indicate
         | that the devices with higher relative agreement and
         | sensitivities to multistate sleep (ie, Fitbit Charge 4 and
         | WHOOP) seem appropriate for deriving suitable estimates of
         | sleep parameters. However, analyses regarding the multistate
         | categorization of sleep indicate that all devices can benefit
         | from further improvement in the assessment of specific sleep
         | stages."
         | 
         | Source: https://mhealth.jmir.org/2024/1/e52192/PDF
        
       | wslh wrote:
       | It is great the author highlights that green tea already includes
       | L-theanine where it is common to read about buying supplements.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | Indeed, but you would really need to drink a lot of green tea
         | to get the same amount of L-theanine you would in a supplement:
         | "2.5 litres of brewed green tea would be needed to get 200mg of
         | L-theanine". Also a question of how much dose you want of
         | course...
        
           | wslh wrote:
           | And matcha tea?
        
             | sheefrex wrote:
             | That has a lot more L-theanine, but even then seems very
             | variable so could be the same or way off.
             | 
             | For example, in one study "the final dose of 1 gram of
             | Matcha green tea was taken on the testing day and contained
             | only 12.4 mg of L- theanine." Source: https://www.ffhdj.com
             | /index.php/DietarySupplementsNutraceuti...
             | 
             | Another study: "According to Kaneko et al., the content of
             | l-theanine in matcha tea infusions amounts to 6.1 mg/L
             | [50], while Unno et al. [9] found as much as 44.65 mg/g of
             | that compound in matcha tea samples." Source:
             | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7796401/
             | 
             | I'm not sure, but I guess one would use around 4 grams of
             | matcha in a cup? So then at the upper bound you would come
             | close to 200mg. But matcha has a lot of caffeine so
             | probably not suitable to improve sleep.
        
       | ssebs wrote:
       | I've taken L-theanine for anxiety before, and it seems to help.
       | I'm not sure if it's a placebo or not, but either way it seems to
       | help
        
         | biomcgary wrote:
         | Same here. I find that I am less likely to wake up in the
         | middle of the night. Based on the post, my guess is that I'm
         | less likely to wake up during REM from anxiety.
        
       | ulnarkressty wrote:
       | > This study was not blinded so there could be a placebo effect.
       | 
       | Saved you a click.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | My view on this is if you don't find any effect or a tiny
         | effect (the case here) that is already useful information. For
         | most supplements, my bet is that you won't even benefit from a
         | placebo effect.
         | 
         | And if you do find an effect, then you should do a more high-
         | effort self-blinded test.
        
           | pinkmuffinere wrote:
           | This seems reasonable to me too -- first test feasibility,
           | and then if it's feasible let's go do a more in depth study.
           | But still, the feasibility result isn't very interesting to
           | external folks like us, and probably shouldn't make the news.
           | I think it should _just_ motivate the new study you mention
        
         | andkenneth wrote:
         | bold of you to assume I'd ever read an article rather than just
         | skimming the comments
        
       | marmight wrote:
       | I would have liked to have seen if there was any difference in
       | the effects over time. I think it is easy to find something that
       | helps with anxiety in the short term, but over enough time
       | habituation, tolerance, and dependence can develop to most
       | substances.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | Yes, you are very right: this is something I will definitely
         | add eventually.
        
       | bagful wrote:
       | For my biology, L-theanine (200 mg) rounds out caffeine by
       | stamping out the anxiety-inducing effect. By itself it just gives
       | me a headache sometimes.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | Indeed, one of the studies cited supports this view.
        
         | hisnameisjimmy wrote:
         | I don't even notice it without caffeine (coffee), but it has
         | transformed coffee for me from something I had to be super
         | careful with to something that is incredibly enjoyable and
         | productivity-inducing without feeling sick and insane.
        
       | mentos wrote:
       | I once was sitting at my desk and had this overwhelming calm come
       | over me. I was trying to figure out what I had eaten that
       | morning/afternoon and then realized the 2-3 'Just Chill' sodas in
       | my trash my mom had gotten me contained L-Theanine. Was a pretty
       | blind test but I wasn't able to reproduce it effectively with
       | L-Theanine supplements I found on amazon.
        
         | sheefrex wrote:
         | Very interesting: maybe it could have been something else in
         | the sodas? Alternatively, the quality of the amazon supplement
         | might not have been great (unless you tried from multiple
         | sources)
        
       | huuhee3 wrote:
       | I tried an L-theanine supplement for anxiety. It had a notable
       | short-term effect, but when I was off it my anxiety significantly
       | worsened. Got better once I stopped taking it, so I guess it was
       | a dependency kind of thing.
       | 
       | So, I would say that it definitely has an impact. Perhaps it
       | would have worked better with a smaller dose.
        
       | oigursh wrote:
       | gwern.net has entered the chat
        
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