[HN Gopher] Jazz - Apps with Distributed State
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Jazz - Apps with Distributed State
Author : gjvc
Score : 183 points
Date : 2024-10-05 10:34 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (jazz.tools)
(TXT) w3m dump (jazz.tools)
| whalesalad wrote:
| https://chat.jazz.tools/#/chat/co_z7jXmhppcrqVpgcx4PxFs5Ljsw...
| yawnxyz wrote:
| very cool! I was there for maybe 2 minutes before HN took the
| system down :D
| theanzelm wrote:
| Investigating why it's breaking, was there a lot of people in
| that room?
| whalesalad wrote:
| when it broke there were 3-4 people in it
| gocken wrote:
| Not very cool if it breaks under hardly any load.
|
| You'd think they'd test their tech demos on more than a
| handful of people before launching. This doesn't give much
| confidence at all in their product.
| jessmartin wrote:
| Over the past few years, I've worked on and used a bunch of
| different frameworks to try to solve for distributed state. Jazz
| feels like it has the right "shape" - the right primitives to
| quickly build an app with magical powers like offline, real-time
| collab, etc.
|
| If you can push the distributed state problem below the framework
| level, it becomes dead simple to build apps, which feels great.
| theanzelm wrote:
| Thanks for the kind words, Jess!
| frenchie4111 wrote:
| Mild nit: your website hijacked the back button, I had to spam
| click back like 30 times to get back to this hacker news comment
| thread
| theanzelm wrote:
| Founder here - do you mean the chat example? Or just the
| homepage itself?
| rozap wrote:
| homepage itself, firefox on ubuntu
| theanzelm wrote:
| Are the history entries all just the same URL? Thanks for
| reporting
| _false wrote:
| Yes (encountered same issue on ff macos after clicking on
| example tabs)
| rbattula wrote:
| same for me safari on macos15
| slipgate55 wrote:
| I couldn't replicate this in Firefox 131 under W11.
| exac wrote:
| On Firefox 131.0 I clicked through the tabs with the demo
| code, then pressed my mouse's "back" button and it didn't
| work. So I manually clicked the back button and it directed
| me back to this page.
|
| Then I opened it again and clicked the back button and it
| didn't work again.
| janderland wrote:
| I'm also experiencing issues with the website. I when to the
| docs page and accidentally pressed back in my browser, after
| which the forward button wouldn't work to undo the back
| operation.
|
| Seems like the website breaks basic browser navigation.
| kspacewalk2 wrote:
| >I had to spam click back like 30 times to get back to this
| hacker news comment thread
|
| Click-and-holding or right-clicking the back button will give
| you a list of last N URLs in your tab history. This page only
| generates one auto-redirect, so the HN URL will show up.
| ddoolin wrote:
| Thank you for this. Many years of browser usage and I never
| knew this.
| NetOpWibby wrote:
| Just tried this in Arc and Firefox...I never knew.
| todd3834 wrote:
| Tip for next time this happens: hold down the back button for a
| menu of your history. It can help get where you want faster.
| Although not sure it helps too much if you literally had to
| click 30 times
| brazzledazzle wrote:
| That or right click.
| gocken wrote:
| I wonder if they tested this at all. What a poor showing.
| aliasxneo wrote:
| After a cursory review of the docs, it conceptually reminds me of
| iroh: https://github.com/n0-computer/iroh.
| authorfly wrote:
| Neat work! Can the author provide any ideas around:
|
| 1) Differences from fire-svelte for core functionality?
|
| 2) For the beyond core aspects, like Group-WebRTC (great
| innovation btw), how will things like TURN/PEER servers work to
| manage the WebRTC connections?
| theanzelm wrote:
| What exactly does fire-svelte do? For me it looked like a
| frontend framework but without synced or persisted state?
| yohannparis wrote:
| Where are the information about the company? I cannot find an
| About Us, where they are based, etc?
| theanzelm wrote:
| Founder here - we're working on that page, so far there's just
| info on me on https://gcmp.io/team
|
| But I was able to hire a couple really good first people
| recently! We're based all over Europe.
|
| Let me know what else you'd like to know!
| candiddevmike wrote:
| This is JavaScript only from what I can tell.
| nielsbot wrote:
| It's TypeScript... but maybe TypeScript only?
| softfalcon wrote:
| I'm more than a little worried about the following all being
| `Coming Soon`:
|
| - Cursors & carets
|
| - Two way sync to your DB
|
| - Video presence & calls - both the Group and
| BinaryCoStreams
|
| All of these are the key reasons I would be evaluating this
| framework to handle my data. All of these are not fully
| implemented yet.
|
| It is these key topics of live reloading/updating data that make
| or break an app. In my opinion, if you haven't concretely solved
| these problems, you haven't really built a viable state framework
| for 2024.
|
| I really like the patterns they've implemented though, looks a
| lot like the same framework I just built on top of MobX,
| websockets, and React for a recent project. They're headed in the
| right direction, but I'm not sure they realize how much more work
| they have to go before this is fully fleshed out.
| theanzelm wrote:
| It is already persisting and syncing data (fully encrypted)
| between the cloud and other users. You can think of Jazz as a
| distributed database itself.
|
| The coming-soon badges are about interop with traditional
| systems and higher level features we will add later.
|
| The fundamentals are solved and you can build full multiplayer,
| local-first apps with it.
|
| Does that make sense?
| aboodman wrote:
| Does it store data persistently anywhere (on servers?). If so
| where?
| jimmywetnips wrote:
| Seems like you have lots of real world mobx experience.
|
| Have you ever read this article, basically saying that every
| front end state (including mobx) basically ends up being a
| worse version of a standard database?
|
| https://sqlsync.dev/posts/stop-building-databases/
|
| I ended up finding that article after running into lots of the
| challenges with mobx State tree. I ended up trying to use
| watermelondb, a sqlite wrapped for react native, but gave up
| entirely on offline due to bugs and project abandonment
| pshc wrote:
| _> Jazz Mesh is currently free -- and it 's set up as the default
| sync & storage peer in Jazz_
|
| How difficult is it to run my own backend?
|
| Edit:
|
| > Completely DIY Mesh.
|
| > Build your own network of sync and storage nodes. Handle
| networking, security and backups yourself.
|
| > Costs:
|
| > N x instance cost for your sync nodes.
|
| > Very high self-hosted egress costs.
|
| > High self-hosted storage costs.
|
| Compared to Mesh Pro at $79 for 30,000 sync-minutes ("Sync-
| minutes are counted on a per-connected-device, per-minute
| basis.") per month... I bet the cost of self-hosted storage and
| egress is very low, actually, of course assuming you have the
| competence and time to DIY it.
| theanzelm wrote:
| npx jazz-run sync
|
| Either locally or on your server.
|
| And then point the app to that!
|
| Edit: re pricing
|
| Super preliminary, curious to hear everyone's thoughts
| theanzelm wrote:
| Founder here - thanks for posting this! It's getting late where I
| am so everyone who has questions please don't be shy to ask, will
| elaborate in detail tomorrow!
| graypegg wrote:
| Edit: This IS being used to build a product, see reply below
|
| One thing I always find weird about these sorts of projects is I
| get the feeling this is a framework built up from scratch. I've
| always had really bad luck doing that. Extracting and refining
| something from a running application always feels like you catch
| the cases that actually matter.
|
| It's neat that it's quick to start, but I think that's mostly
| because the framework has only been evaluated by making tiny toy
| examples. Staying reaaaaally close to the framework code is sort
| of like painting with your nose against the canvas. At the scale
| of features you want to fit in: - live sync
| - authorization - video chat - an open connection
| to your DB, presumably meaning this is your main data fetching
| API
|
| you're basically building 20% of someones else's app that
| currently doesn't exist. Once it does exist, it'll only be a
| simple toy example for a short while.
|
| It's sensibly licensed though (MIT), and honestly, skimming the
| source, seems clean to work with! I hope people using this
| contribute back to it, to get over that starter-project hurdle.
| theanzelm wrote:
| Jazz is built specifically for a work-in-progress, but full app
| (essentially a Notion clone, TBA) and all the design choices
| are driven by that.
|
| Completely agree that this is the only way to create
| frameworks.
|
| Edit: also other people are building full apps with it too
| which I'll showcase soon. https://learn-anything.xyz/ is one
| example, https://invoiceradar.com/ is another.
| graypegg wrote:
| Oh neat! I stand corrected then! That's really cool!
|
| Definitely get that showcase up, I think it just helps to
| confirm this isn't one of those stealth-mode "solves
| everything" dev tools that disappears along with it's VC
| funding.
| squidsoup wrote:
| You missed an opportunity to call the free tier of your mesh
| service "free jazz".
| theanzelm wrote:
| Great idea!
| bcye wrote:
| Awesome project!
|
| fyi on latest Chrome the navigation items blog, releases, roadmap
| are aligned top/start instead of center for me
| cyanydeez wrote:
| Nice, but react.
| timolins wrote:
| I love building with Jazz. It's so refreshing to build apps
| without thinking about backends.
|
| The number one thing I'm looking forward to is React Native
| support. Having local data that syncs is essential for many
| mobile apps, but there are no easy solutions yet. (Besides
| iCloud, which is limited to iOS/macOS)
|
| With Jazz, I can see a future where building syncing, cross-
| platform apps becomes effortless.
| aboodman wrote:
| Very excited to see this. I think this is currently the most
| promising of the fully-decentralized local-first systems I've
| seen.
| bbojan wrote:
| How does this compare to Instant (https://www.instantdb.com/)?
| Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote:
| Nice. Is there a way to add an rss feed? Can't seem to make the
| newsletter subscription work (could totally be my fault)
|
| Also, do you think there will be a way to use python with it?
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(page generated 2024-10-07 23:00 UTC)