[HN Gopher] Sailfish Mobile OS
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Sailfish Mobile OS
Author : getwiththeprog
Score : 45 points
Date : 2024-10-05 12:00 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (sailfishos.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (sailfishos.org)
| getwiththeprog wrote:
| Does anyone use or have feedback on Sailfish?
| fractallyte wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41755272
|
| Part of this thread:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41754074 [We need a real
| GNU/Linux (not Android) smartphone ecosystem]
| Self-Perfection wrote:
| I owned Jolla and Jolla C phones, that were made by the
| developers of Sailfish OS, until I got tired of swimming
| against the tide and switched to Android.
|
| At the time it was very close to desktop GNU/linux OSes:
| software in rpm packages, wayland, pulse audio, easy SSH to
| device. It was easy. I still find myself confused when using
| Android, Sailfish OS was easy.
| 42lux wrote:
| Not great, not terrible. The android support is hit and miss
| and the official store is mostly full of junk. Their SDK is
| rudimentary and there is close to no documentation. After they
| signed a deal with the russian state I gave up on them. I am on
| Plasma now which has an overall better experience.
| vrinsd wrote:
| Do you use Plasma on a phone or tablet? If phone, can you say
| which hardware platform and how "well" it works as an actual
| phone, making calls, texting, etc?
| vrinsd wrote:
| I've used it for several years and the feedback from a user
| point of view is not positive. My sample size includes me and
| several members of my family who used Sony Xperia devices
| running SailfishOS for several years.
|
| The Sailfish guys for some odd reason decide to invent their
| own "user interactions" where you click-slide ("one handed") to
| do certain opertaions. This makes the UI not only awkward, but
| NOT intuitive. You don't know what your options are until you
| perform this strange operation. I get why they did this, it was
| a way to potentially reduce swiping, etc but now that we have
| phones with big screens, you can actually put those options in
| one UI.
|
| Further, basic things like composing a text and attaching a
| photo requires a round-trip to the photo app where you 'tag'
| the images you want ONE BY ONE rather than being able to do
| this inline from the SMS/MMS application. I think this has
| gotten better recently but for a long time it was SUPER
| awkward.
|
| Two other perplexing points was how SLOW the UI felt for what
| should have been compiled Qt code and poor battery life on the
| older Xperia devices. Maybe they're using QML and it's not
| compiled?
|
| The Sailfish guys have what I think is an ugly looking UI as
| well.
|
| They've "dithered" certain parts of the UI so it really looks
| like old-school EGA/CGA graphics, even though the display is
| high-DPI and they have what's effectively a TUI style
| interface.
|
| The only people I know who "LOVE" or claim "it's the best" UI
| are the same ones who LOVE Zune and Windows Phone UIs which are
| basically flat UI, almost monocolor nearly TUI type which is
| what you see pieces of in Win10 as well. Personally I dislike
| this UI and so do many people I know, there's a reason why UIs
| have icons and ideally text labels. TUIs have their place but
| so do GUIs.
|
| If the Sailfish guys abandoned their weird UI ideas and frankly
| made it more like iOS or Android (I know, so boring, we have to
| re-invent the wheel just because...) it would actually be
| compelling.
|
| On the very very plus side of Sailfish, as someone else pointed
| out, it's basically a GNU/Linux device that uses RPMs. I was
| able to install dnsmasq, set up DNS based adblock filtering,
| curate firewall rules and basically harden the device. You
| could SSH into the device via USB without adb stupidity and
| once I set it up, it stayed working until the VOLTE switch-over
| occured.
|
| I think Ubuntu Touch has a better "UI" (I've also run this) but
| the Ubuntu guys have basically been ignoring VOLTE and since
| all major US carriers have switched over to VOLTE, your phone
| basically can't really make calls now on Ubuntu Touch (but
| that's OK, they've improved a bunch of other stuff! /sarcasm
| off).
|
| Ubuntu Touch (not that you asked) is also a LOT slower than it
| should be and because the Ubuntu Touch guys are pursuing an
| 'Over the Air' update model, since the OS can basically be
| overwritten, applications aren't actually unpacked at install
| time but dynamically at run time. On a desktop this is OK but
| on a phone it leads to very slow app loading times.
|
| I have high hopes for the current batch of Linux phone
| projects, Mobian, postmarketOS, etc but sadly I'm on Android
| until these are fully solidified.
| cycomanic wrote:
| Funny, I used the Nokia N9 back in the days and the UI of
| (what was called Meego back the IIRC) was head and shoulders
| above everyone else. I believe the they were the first to
| have general gesture navigation so your comment about
| reinventing the UI is somewhat off the mark. Android
| implemented things after them, it's sort of like the argument
| that unix terminals should adopted ctrl-C for copy because
| it's the "standard".
|
| I actually bought a Sony Xperia 10 and sail fish because I
| wanted the UI back so bad, but unfortunately I have some apps
| which didn't seem to work with android emulation (mainly
| banking...)
| vrinsd wrote:
| I am not saying the gestures in Android and iOS (app
| switching, etc) are actually the value add, but in fact
| things like toggles for options, or a "=" where the options
| are available to turn on/off. Sailfish forces gestures for
| things inside an application as well.
|
| No doubt Meego innovated on ideas, but just because they
| came up with something doesn't make it "good" and just
| because Apple/Google copied it doesn't prove the validity
| of the idea.
|
| To that point I would prefer we used more screen real
| estate (Android, iOS, whatever) and REDUCED the usage of
| gestures, it would end up being faster. It sometimes takes
| me multiple attempts to swipe from the bottom on a
| Android/iOS to get it to do something because I have a
| screen protector and/or case and the way I'm interacting
| the with the device is different than the developers who
| might have worked with a "nude" device.
|
| The screen protector/case issue made UI navigation even
| worse on Sailfish devices because you had to use this
| gesture inside a program, not just to switch between
| applications.
|
| Ubuntu Touch also has a swipe, but from the side where a
| screen protector is slightly less likely to affect it's
| ability to register the gesture.
| mpol wrote:
| I use it since 2014, 10 years and counting. I used the first
| Jolla 1, which was a lovely device, with a very dim screen :)
| It uses Wayland, Pulseaudio and Qt. I also used it on a Sony
| Xperia XA2, and since recently am on a Sony Xperia 10 III.
|
| The Android App support is good, I use Whatsapp and Signal with
| it, also Firefox and DuckDuckGo browser. Just keep in mind that
| the Android App support is to get a few apps running that are
| important to you. Choosing Sailfish also means choosing mostly
| native apps. The system browser is built on the Firefox engine.
| SSH support is lovely though. It feels just like desktop Linux.
|
| Don't expect a super slick experience. Companies like Apple and
| Google are pooring billions into their mobile OS. A small
| comapny like Jolla cannot keep up with that. Also the Android
| drivers are as is, the Jolla developers cannot improve on them.
|
| Edit: by the way, it uses Firejail to have apps locked into
| their own jail.
| nextos wrote:
| IMHO it's good enough for daily usage if your needs are not
| very sophisticated and you are willing to deal with some rough
| edges.
|
| It has some fantastic native & open indie applications, see
| https://openrepos.net.
|
| If it managed to attract some extra users and gain a critical
| mass, it could become a credible (niche) alternative. It's
| nearly there.
| desdenova wrote:
| I wish it was feasible to have alternative mobile systems, but
| it's not really.
|
| You can't simply give up every popular app for a system nobody
| else uses or develops for.
|
| Sailfish has Android emulation, but good luck running banking
| apps without Google SafetyNet. Even pure Android ROMs, like
| LineageOS, can't do that.
|
| Also good luck with proprietary firmware for mobile networking
| and cameras. Another thing that usually holds back AOSP
| distributions, and will likely be even worse in a non-Android
| system.
| beardyw wrote:
| But for an old phone a very open and developer friendly
| environment (Linux like maybe) is attractive. Sadly those
| available are limited to more modern phones, which is I think a
| mistake. Maybe the answer is a side loaded application with a
| ridiculous amount of permissions?
| brunoqc wrote:
| > good luck running banking apps without Google SafetyNet.
|
| Doesn't most banks have a mobile version of their website.
| Maybe not the best but it could be a good compromise.
| zamadatix wrote:
| If you want to go in and do the basics (check balance, do a
| normal transfer, look at activity) this can get you by. A lot
| of the more useful features tend to be app only though. E.g.
| "scan to deposit check" is an app only item for my bank.
| hansvm wrote:
| I can do that sort of thing from the Ally website. Which is
| good, because Google is actively killing off support for
| devices more than a few years old, and I can't run most new
| apps on my phone, banking or otherwise (old apps are hit-
| or-miss, but the practice of forcing updates to the latest
| version poisons most of them).
| izacus wrote:
| Most banks here in Europe require Mobile apps to login into
| their website.
| fuomag9 wrote:
| Here in Europe you cannot login to bank websites without the
| bank app on your phone for 2FA codes
| silisili wrote:
| Today sure, it just needs support from a major player. Not
| -that- long ago, nearly every mfg had their own OS(Blackberry,
| Meego/Symbian, Win Mobile, Palm, etc) and each had enough apps.
|
| If Samsung or Huawei or probably even Motorola decided to ditch
| Android and go all in on Sailfish, we'd see support for apps in
| short order. But as a third party OS you have to install
| yourself, it's basically dead in the water.
|
| What BlackBerry did before giving up was a smart approach, they
| basically just converted Android apps to BlackBerry ones for
| you. And that'd be a fast way to get bootstrapped. They just
| didn't have enough steam left in them, sadly.
| FormerBandmate wrote:
| BlackBerry was a huge player. They declined, as with Nokia,
| entirely because they didn't use a platform
| fractallyte wrote:
| By far the best mobile OS, way better than iOS or Android
| (simpler and more consistent).
|
| The biggest obstacle to greater adoption is the lack of
| availability outside of the EU; of course, this is easy to work
| around...
|
| It has a 'killer feature': Android App Support
| (https://jolla.com/appsupport), which enables a SFOS device to
| run Android apps in a sandbox.
|
| I would also love to see a carefully engineered photo app...
| BSDobelix wrote:
| Na thanks no closed source "near scam" OS/Company for me.
| fractallyte wrote:
| Well, I think you ought to write more than that... Enlighten
| us!
| yazzku wrote:
| I am skeptical too, but the company is Finnish. Anybody know
| more about them?
|
| Edit: looks like a non-free OS indeed. The developer tools
| just seem to include an SDK. It's a pass for me.
| dijit wrote:
| fwiw I was working at Nokia R&D when Elop trojan horsed us,
| Jolla (and sailfishOS) was the result of people making
| MeeGO jumping ship.
|
| I don't know if it's the same now, because 12 years or more
| of fighting the duopoly with no cash to speak of in
| comparison must have meant selling your soul somewhat, but
| I doubt it's the intent to do anything shady.
|
| Android (in popular use) tends to have a lot of closed
| source bits, though I agree that it should be entirely open
| source. I would guess that not having it straight FOSS is
| more a function of financials and headcount to be good
| stewards than it is of ill-intent.
| distances wrote:
| For those curious, it's a continuation from where Nokia
| left with their Linux efforts, that's the roots in a
| nutshell. They did ship a smartphone with their own
| hardware in 2013. I still have it in my drawer.
|
| Definitely ambitious, and an achievement, for a small
| company tackle OS, hardware, dev experience, everything.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla_%28smartphone%29
| written-beyond wrote:
| I had a Nokia N9, their second attempt at Meego/Maemo, to
| this date it's the weirdest consumer device I've ever
| owned. The device shipped with a front camera but it was
| not accessible through any default app. The closest I got
| to it working was a mirror app someone made in a
| Hackathon.
|
| Issues aside it was a beautifully designed device, you
| could see real innovation. Unfortunately Nokia killed it
| before it even shipped.
| hulitu wrote:
| > Sailfish Mobile OS
|
| > Available for supported Sony Xperia(tm) devices.
|
| So not very useful for other devices. /s
| forgotpwd16 wrote:
| There's a 70p document (available at:
| https://docs.sailfishos.org/Develop/HADK/) that details how to
| port Sailfish to any Android device. From a skim, seems
| straightforward and not harder than building an Android ROM.
| Could maybe be outdated in some parts, since even if says last
| updated 2023, mentioned Android versions are from 2021.
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(page generated 2024-10-06 23:00 UTC)