[HN Gopher] Life, death, and retirement
___________________________________________________________________
Life, death, and retirement
Author : david2ndaccount
Score : 288 points
Date : 2024-10-01 21:24 UTC (5 days ago)
(HTM) web link (randomascii.wordpress.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (randomascii.wordpress.com)
| codingdave wrote:
| > I am taking my work/life balance and turning the dial all the
| way to "life".
|
| That is an awesome way to put it.
|
| We don't often hear about everyone's troubles and trauma. And
| seeing it written down is surely nothing compared to living
| through it. But there is a lot of it out there, whether we know
| about it or not, so when people go through it... I heartily
| approve of recognizing that life is more important than work, and
| knowing when to adjust that dial.
| abirch wrote:
| I would gladly work for 1/2 the money to work 1/2 the hours.
| Like 30 actual hours per week.
| badgersnake wrote:
| Why are you working 60 hours a week? You're almost certainly
| not getting paid for that.
|
| Unless you're a founder or something like that you want to
| get that down to 40ish.
| tasuki wrote:
| If you're a founder, you also want to get that down to
| 40ish.
| dingnuts wrote:
| Recognizing when life is more important than work? Did you miss
| the part where his wife died BEFORE "tuning the dial to life"?
| The lesson you should get from his post is not to make that
| mistake.
|
| This forum is absurd. I don't need a cancer diagnosis to tell
| me I'm not living to complete OKRs and quarterly goals.
|
| I'm a good employee and a dedicated worker but my goal since
| day one has been to do the least shitty job I can land, retire
| as fast as possible, and get on with the good parts of life.
| I've had the dial as far to life as possible forever.
|
| But I'm working class, so I can't just retire when I realize
| the value of my life due to a medical emergency. Being able to
| do that is not a virtue that should be praised like this forum
| is doing, it is a gift that should be appreciated for the
| privilege that it is.
|
| I only pray I can earn enough to turn my dial all the way to
| life, sometime before my body gives up on me
| trashface wrote:
| Always enjoyed this blog. The post on thermal throttling stands
| out as a fun one, but there were many others. Hopefully Bruce
| comes back to writing at some point after some recovery time.
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| Hopefully he finds the writing _is_ the recovery.
|
| Or hopefully he finds anything at all that helps. I lost my
| mother just a little over a year ago and it was (is) hard. In
| addition to the pain of loss though losing your spouse has to
| be even more disruptive to moving forward with your life.
| octopusRex wrote:
| Sorry for your loss. Not that saying it makes it better, but I
| am.
|
| Financially, you can retire. one less thing to add to the
| destruction.
| senko wrote:
| Sadly it often takes a devastating life event to make us rethink
| our position and priorities in life.
|
| We work to live, not live to work, and don't you let any
| overachieving founder mode startup bro sell you otherwise.
|
| Sorry for the author's loss.
| jajko wrote:
| Most of the time, those over-achievers from the outside lead a
| very unhappy, constantly unfulfilled life. I've met few of
| those up close (former girlfriends, close friends) and oh boy
| its a sad view once you see full picture. Success is never
| really enjoyed for long, there is always next target to chase.
| Close people around suffer accordingly.
|
| Then when you know what signs to look for, you see it a lot
| more among those 'very successful'.
|
| There is one success for me - living a good life that one is
| happy to have lived when looking back old/dying. Good,
| sometimes hard moral choices instead of less moral shortcuts. A
| lot of people put themselves a lot of such baggage over years
| and from young happy folks they are grumpy envious older ones
| (there are many more reasons for such of course). Whatever such
| success means to you, all the power to you. For most of us,
| work achievement are pretty low in that list, so look for
| success elsewhere in life.
| jebarker wrote:
| From experience, I can say that If you were conditioned from
| a young age to believe that achievement and status were
| important in life it's an incredibly hard instinct to let go
| of. You're totally right that it's damaging for those around
| you and can lead to bitterness as you age. It's something I
| have to grapple with everyday and it's exhausting.
| parpfish wrote:
| I think this is a curse that gets inflicted on far too many
| "gifted" children. While young they get lots of praise for
| their accomplishments and outcomes and it can drown out any
| intrinsic motivation to do things that make them happy.
| jebarker wrote:
| Exactly, and well put. I have a hard time identifying
| those things that really make me happy without any
| external influence and an even harder time comfortably
| sitting with the idea that objective of my life should be
| personal happiness.
| sokoloff wrote:
| > Success is never really enjoyed for long, there is always
| next target to chase.
|
| That's a reason to carefully choose the next target, but
| frankly sounds awesome to me.
|
| I don't want to sit around and luxuriate recalling past
| successes that I'll never repeat. I'd much rather savor that
| for a short time and then set off for whatever is next in my
| short life.
| mlhpdx wrote:
| > Most of the time, those over-achievers from the outside
| lead a very unhappy, constantly unfulfilled life.
|
| Common, yes, but "most" is a great exaggeration in my
| experience.
|
| I am surrounded by people who have or are achieving above a
| standard deviation from the mean (completely qualitative).
| They are just regular people who happen to thrive on their
| projects (work or personal).
|
| I don't know why or how our experiences can be so different.
| rthrth45y wrote:
| We work to survive, I would not call this living for the vast
| majority of us. There is no possibility of re-assessing our
| priorities because not working is death. Anyone that has the
| ability to re-asses their priorities can only do so from a
| place of extreme privilege that most will never have access to.
| Plenty people with a cancer diagnoses just die because they
| cant afford any other option.
| Ctyra wrote:
| Exactly this. I have seen this a lot of the times first hand.
| rectang wrote:
| I quit a gig that was great in a lot of ways -- great product,
| great peers, great potential -- primarily because of of an
| "overachieving founder mode startup" individual. This person
| was exquisitely talented and inspiring but ultimately the only
| way to participate in the company was to overdrive yourself to
| the point of misery.
|
| I stayed longer than perhaps I might have because that person
| was young enough to learn and change. And they definitely
| learned and changed over time, but not the lessons _I_ thought
| they should learn. This doesn 't make the direction they took
| objectively wrong, but eventually I and all the engineering
| peers I valued bailed out.
|
| It was frustrating because I remain convinced it didn't have to
| turn out the way that it did. But leaving was absolutely the
| right thing to do and I'm much happier now.
| copperx wrote:
| > It was frustrating because I remain convinced it didn't
| have to turn out the way that it did.
|
| That's the curse of the optimist. You may be an optimist at
| heart.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| That sucks, what he went through. That happens to a lot of
| people. As we get older, it tends to happen more often.
|
| Sounds like he made exactly the correct choice. I support him in
| continuing to make correct choices. This is but the first of
| many.
|
| I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of the
| tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job.
|
| It absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it
| has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. It
| also coincided with close family members having some health
| issues, so my being available has been beneficial.
|
| In my case, I really enjoy programming and tech; just not when it
| is being ruined by terrible managers and coworkers. I was really
| starting to hate what I did, and having full control of my own
| process, made all the difference.
|
| For one thing, it showed that I was usually right, in my personal
| philosophies, which were regularly disparaged by said managers.
| When given the chance to practice my own personal Process, things
| have been going very well, indeed.
|
| So I get to work for free. It's a blast. I've gotten more
| accomplished, in the seven years, since I was pushed out, than I
| did, in the thirty preceding years.
|
| In my case, I am involved in organizations that constantly
| surround me with people with whom I have very intimate
| relationships. Socializing isn't a problem; but I understand that
| it can be a real issue for retired people. This goes double, for
| ones that have the means to wall themselves off from others.
|
| I do know a number of folks that preceded me, in retirement,
| after long, lucrative careers. Most, were dead within five years
| of retirement.
|
| In my case, I feel that I'm just getting started.
| mxuribe wrote:
| > ...I did it, myself, but not by choice. I was "frozen out" of
| the tech industry, after leaving a very long-term job...It
| absolutely infuriated me, at first, but, in the aggregate, it
| has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me...
|
| I would say i'm about a decade or maybe a decade and half
| before i can freely retire...But, already i see signs of the
| possibility of being frozen out of tech. Its such a fearful
| thing, and even moreso at a latter age! I quite enjoy
| technology both in isolation but also connecting proper tech to
| solve human problems...But so often it feels that at my
| $dayjobs, it always feels like we are solving the wrong
| problems...like chasing whatever some senior leader added into
| their presentation...as in, a goal for them, but not always
| something that is sustainable for the org, substantially
| helpful to people, etc. Its clear to me that while i still have
| the enthusiasm of my 25 year old around tech and genuinely
| helping people wit tech, i am so much more cynical about
| corporate use of tech. Nowadays, i'm at the point where i am
| seriously considering leaving tech, and trying to get some
| other job...and then only having fun with tech on the side,
| such as contributing to open source projects, playing on my own
| home lab, volunteering with orgs on digital divide, etc. I
| figure those sort of "hobbies" or side projects can also help
| me transition whenever the time comes for me to retire, of
| if/when i get pushed out. Now, i just have to ensure my costs
| are down so i can weather any salary hits.
|
| @ChrisMarshallNY Sorry that you got impacted by a freezing
| out...But glad to hear that you're getting started on a new
| phase of life for you, and hoping it keeps being positive for
| you! Cheers!!!
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Now, i just have to ensure my costs are down so i can
| weather any salary hits._
|
| That's the key.
|
| I have always lived extremely humbly, and haven't carried any
| personal debt, beyond a mortgage on a very small house, since
| 1995. I maxed out my savings, and deferred stuff I couldn't
| afford.
|
| I'm still doing that now, and my savings generate more than I
| spend (for now). I'm hoping to have the ability to help my
| family, after I pass. They'll need as much help as possible.
| mxuribe wrote:
| Yep, you're taking the smartest approach! :-)
| 0x1ceb00da wrote:
| What does it mean to be "frozen out"?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I was 55, when I was looking for work.
|
| I won't go into detail, but it was made clear that "my kind"
| was not welcome.
| jmathai wrote:
| That sounds like a terrible year. I feel sorry for the poster.
| Life can come at you fast and sometimes I feel like I'm just
| bracing myself for such a life changing event.
|
| I too was at Google. But for 7 years, not 10. And my employment
| terminated in April, not because of a life event like his.
|
| But the feelings he expressed resonate with me. I stopped
| enjoying work and my performance tanked coinciding with a reorg
| and manager change.
|
| I did not miss my job which just a couple years ago I actually
| enjoyed.
|
| I wasn't seriously thinking of leaving my job. Being pushed out
| forced me to evaluate what I do if that happened - which it did.
| And that evaluation is that I'm a lot happier and can reset what
| I want from life - it doesn't _have_ to be full on retirement.
|
| I have always thought about life in the long go term. What legacy
| do I want to leave, how do I want to spend the last years, what
| do I want the late years to look like with my wife.
|
| Sometimes it takes the outside world to force you into the next
| thing. Life does not discriminate but the best you can do is take
| a big step back and try to find a new lens to look at it through.
| There are many lenses.
| Mistletoe wrote:
| I retired early this year. My advice to anyone seeking to do so
| is think clearly about it. Because once you do it, you can never
| go back to that world. The world of waking up early, having a
| boss tell you what to do, going to meetings that mean absolutely
| nothing, running on that hamster wheel, seems so trite and
| meaningless afterwards. That's a good thing, but you can never go
| back. Then it becomes time to concentrate on what life is really
| about- your health, your relationships, having fun and
| discovering what life is like without that tether on your ankle.
| Everyone isn't cut out for that, some need that hamster wheel.
| The best people are cut out for it. :)
| p1esk wrote:
| Sounds like you had a shitty job. Mine is great, I'd do it for
| free if I didn't need the money.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| Could you share more details about your job, if you don't
| mind?
|
| I posted in a comment in this thread, but I changed 3 jobs in
| 4 years (a mix of FAANG and startups) and each one has been
| more miserable than the previous, so I can definitely relate
| with the previous poster.
|
| So I am wondering what kind of "normal job" people have that
| is so good that they'd do it for free.
| tasuki wrote:
| Not OP. Just optimize for happiness instead of money. I
| earn ten times less now than I used to. I work half the
| time and am twice as happy.
|
| (I work for a small local business in Eastern Europe,
| ten(ish) people, we don't earn much, but get a lot of
| freedom and the atmosphere at work is very nice)
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| What if you literally can't think of a work position that
| would make you happy? Just talking out loud and not
| expecting an answer from you, but that's just what was
| going on in my head while reading your comment.
|
| Perhaps I am too burned out, but I couldn't imagine
| feeling happy working with a team, an manager and hard
| problems.
|
| Probably my "happy" job would consist in full agency with
| no managers, no peers to veto or judge or comment or
| compete on/with my work, extremely low intellectual
| requirements, part-time time commitment at best, and
| wages good enough to still make it objectively worth my
| time compared to my portfolio (shared a lot more context
| in another comment on this thread).
|
| I understand all this might be a tad unrealistic, so just
| venting.
| kadushka wrote:
| I train and optimize large AI models for a small startup
| (50 people). I report to CTO (a cofounder), who's a very
| smart and reasonable guy. I have two group meetings a week,
| and occasional ad-hoc calls with my teammates. My teammates
| are great guys with similar backgrounds to mine (phds from
| top schools, in their late 30s/early 40s). I work remotely
| since 2010, never worked for a big company, changed a few
| startups in the last decade. My salary is 250k, but I used
| to make double that - I downshifted a couple years ago.
| Currently I'm enjoying 4 hour days on average: sometimes I
| wake up and don't feel like working at all, sometimes I
| want to get something done and I work for 8 hours straight,
| but it's rare. No one cares as long as I deliver good
| results, and I usually do (I have lots of experience in my
| field). Over the years I managed to save for a couple of
| real estate properties, and I got a bit of stocks (hand-
| picked). I could probably retire tomorrow, but I'm pretty
| sure I'd miss working. You could say I'm the opposite of
| being burnt out, perhaps I'm too relaxed, and I should be
| more ambitious, but I got three kids, so they keep me busy.
| djaychela wrote:
| Just had a cancer diagnosis (bile duct, I'm 53). Surgery in a
| months time will hopefully see me healthy again after it, but
| I've already decided to make changes even if it has spread and I
| only have a much shorter time to live.
|
| I always thought I'd contemplated life and death before this (I
| am not religious), but having had several weeks of genuinely not
| knowing if I only had a week to live, I think you only really do
| this fully in that kind of situation. Even if I am cured, my life
| and attitude will never be the same again.
| chrisweekly wrote:
| Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. I had a similar
| experience 12 years ago. Pls email (address in bio) if I can be
| of any assistance (e.g. book recs). In any case, good luck w/
| your surgery!
| unshavedyak wrote:
| It's funny, I've always just been kinda waiting for death.
| Probably need meds but never felt like changing "who I am".
| I'm curious to see what happens to me when that cancer day
| comes for someone so apathetic to the whole life experience.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Back in '96, I had a brain tumor, operation, and learning to
| walk and chew gum again.
|
| Kind of a bummer.
|
| At the time, I wasn't ready to retire, but if it had happened
| 20 years later, it probably would have resulted in my
| retirement.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| My mother suddenly passed from cancer last year at 68, that
| harrowing experience violently reshifted a lot of my life
| philosophies.
|
| This was perhaps exacerbated by both my grandparents on mom's
| side also passing just a couple years prior back to back.
|
| Among other things violently reshifted:
|
| * Time is finite, grows more valuable as I age, and I do not
| have as much as I think I do. It is imperative I live now, not
| tomorrow.
|
| * Time is money and money is time. Money in hand can be spent
| for others' time so I don't have to spend mine, and money can
| be replenished while my time cannot be. Money can also be
| borrowed, but I cannot borrow more time. It is imperative I
| live now, not tomorrow.
|
| * Take nothing for granted. Social Security being the prime
| example; my mother waited until 65 to start taking it and so
| she barely enjoyed only 3 years of it. I refuse to repeat that,
| I am taking Social Security at 62 ASAP and screw anyone trying
| to tell me otherwise for any reason. It is imperative I live
| now, not tomorrow.
|
| * People here today might not be here tomorrow, for any or no
| reason. The experience of spending time with them can only be
| had today. It is imperative I live now, not tomorrow.
|
| * Small problems are not worth the time of day, it is fine to
| resolve them in the quickest and easiest way possible. It is
| imperative I live now, not tomorrow.
|
| * Most of the goings-on in the world will come and go time and
| time again. If something comes up, it too shall pass and come
| up again in due time to pass again. It is imperative I live
| now, not tomorrow.
|
| * When I'm finally gone, I'm _gone_. It is not worth the time
| of day today to care about what happens after, I will be _dead_
| and literally can 't care or interject. It is imperative I live
| now, not tomorrow.
| rthrth45y wrote:
| How have these things tangibly changed your life and
| behavior? Do you have things you could share as an example? I
| never know what that looks like. Everything I want to do in
| life to enjoy it requires money I do not have.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Try things that don't require (a lot of) money. Stuff like
| expensive travel to far away places is overrated in my
| opinion. Take walks in the local parks, volunteer locally
| or join local clubs. You may find something you never
| thought about that you like doing and that costs very
| little.
|
| Acquiring expensive stuff is almost never deeply rewarding.
| There are exceptions of course such as good tools you might
| need for a hobby you enjoy but used tools are often a
| bargain or there are makerspaces or community workshops you
| might explore.
| mulhoon wrote:
| Great thoughts, thanks for sharing.
| nickjj wrote:
| If you like that, you may like the book "Die With Zero:
| Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life". Even if
| you don't want to die with $0 there's a lot of sound advice
| around having good experiences now instead of waiting until
| you retire.
| laurencerowe wrote:
| > * Take nothing for granted. Social Security being the prime
| example; my mother waited until 65 to start taking it and so
| she barely enjoyed only 3 years of it. I refuse to repeat
| that, I am taking Social Security at 62 ASAP and screw anyone
| trying to tell me otherwise for any reason. It is imperative
| I live now, not tomorrow.
|
| Not financial advice, but I think it's worth thinking
| separately about when you stop working and when you take
| Social Security.
|
| If your retirement assets are mostly in a 401k or similar
| then you need to work out how to spread those out without
| them running out before you're gone. Annuities are incredibly
| expensive so delaying Social Security actually seems like the
| best way to insure somewhat against running out of money if
| you happen to live longer, which would make me feel more
| comfortable about spending more in retirement.
|
| If I had a traditional pension which pays you the same amount
| each year and wanted to stop working at 62 then taking Social
| Security early would be much more attractive.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| Objectively, my mom was right to wait and in fact it can be
| argued she should have waited to 70. We run a small family
| business, so she had steady income right up until her
| deathbed. She didn't _need_ that Social Security income.
|
| But financial theory blew straight out the fucking window
| when I was going through her affairs.
|
| One of the things I found from deep in her office was a
| notebook, in it were numbers figuring how much Social
| Security she would get if she took at <X> age all the way
| from age 62 to 70. She also extrapolated all the way to at
| least age 80; it was clear she intended on enjoying a long
| (semi-)retirement.
|
| I also remembered at that point how mom approached us once
| when she was 62 (and obviously in good health then) asking
| if she should wait or take Social Security ASAP. All of us
| (myself, my sister, my dad/her husband) all told her to
| take it ASAP; she ended up meeting halfway waiting to 65,
| but in hindsight we were clearly right to tell her to take
| ASAP.
|
| Seeing that notebook and remembering that conversation
| still pains me greatly, because it's a whole lot of "could
| have" that got violently taken away from literally sheer
| dumb bad luck. I absolutely refuse to repeat this if I can
| help it, so I'm taking Social Security ASAP at age 62.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| I've had friends that 'live for the day'. They were fun to
| spend a day with. But their lives were chaotic car crashes as
| they stumbled from one crisis to the next due to a lack of
| any plan or forethought. So I think there has to be a happy
| medium.
| Ctyra wrote:
| > Take nothing for granted. Social Security being the prime
| example; my mother waited until 65 to start taking it and so
| she barely enjoyed only 3 years of it. I refuse to repeat
| that, I am taking Social Security at 62 ASAP and screw
|
| For those inclined to do financial planning: Recently a
| colleague of mine retired. He mentioned that he plans on
| waiting for a while before he will start taking social
| security payments. His logic was that if he were to live
| longer, this decision would turn out to be a very good
| decision. This may not be a great decision in case he dies
| early, but then he won't be there to regret it. I liked the
| way he phrased it. Of course, his financial situation also
| allows him to live now without touching his social security.
| For those not in such good financial state, the decision
| might be lot more complex.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| I replied to another comment that might be of interest to
| you:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41760850
| d2049 wrote:
| This is the person who was in the news a few years ago for
| commuting to Google campus using 19 different methods in 19 days
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWftDrwY2U
| fullshark wrote:
| The premise that your life should be work until 65 and then you
| can finally do what you want is so depressing to me. I have goals
| beyond just doing what I want, but it all just seems like an
| endless rat race i can never win as I chase money/prestige in
| order to accomplish those goals or those things serve as a nice
| but ultimately meaningless byproduct of accomplishing those goals
| while my life slips away.
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| I actually enjoy my job (well, mostly anyway). I would probably
| do it for free tbh (except for some of the BS parts)
| fullshark wrote:
| At this point I think most jobs have good days and bad days
| and there's some enjoyment/pride in being productive and
| valued in a job environment. I'm not full r/antiwork or
| anything but when you take a 10k foot view and realize almost
| no one on their death bed wishes they had spent more time
| working / on their computer it's hard to not feel like it's
| all a big miscalculation on our parts.
| jkarneges wrote:
| > almost no one on their death bed wishes they had spent
| more time working / on their computer
|
| And old age isn't needed to figure this out. Even middle
| age will do. When I reflect on my life, I almost never
| think about past work.
|
| (Yet, I remain mostly working.)
| zemvpferreira wrote:
| On my deathbed I probably won't wish I had spent more time
| at the gym either, but that doesn't mean the gym is not
| good for me to engage with more often now.
|
| I've retired early and gone back to work voluntarily. I
| find the first 10 to 30 hours per week are good for me, and
| I genuinely enjoy employing people and working on projects
| with them. Not every week is exhilarating. Lots of weeks
| are dogshit and make me feel like going back to 100% life
| again. But over time, I feel more fulfilled when I try to
| contribute through work. I will surely reconsider that
| position when I become the Buddha, but likely not sooner if
| I keep my health and stay childless.
|
| (do go part-time as soon as you can, it's great)
| Scubabear68 wrote:
| If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
|
| What you cherish on your death bed is often enabled by
| plain old hard work. You may not love the work, but for
| most of it is the path to those happy death bed memories(
| _).
|
| Skip the work, and for most of us it will be a short,
| miserable life scrabbling for food and shelter.
|
| (_) The big asterisk of course is tech salaries are
| completely out of whack with effort and complexity. There
| are a lot of us out here who get enormous salaries for
| doing comparatively little in the grand scheme of things.
| These lucky folks are skewing the narrative for the rest of
| the world.
|
| For me, I will always cherish memories of vacations, my
| son's first varsity touch down, my daughter's vocal solo
| for a Christmas show, hanging out with friends in the woods
| with little more than tents, firewood and beer. I will also
| be quite honest that it's been enabled by a lot of luck at
| work and the incredibly high salary I earn in software -
| which is less than half of the FAANG salaries I see
| mentioned here.
|
| Life isn't about living in the now. Or in the tomorrow. Or
| ignoring the long term, or short term, or whatever term.
|
| Life for most of us is finding balance that works in our
| situation,
| rqtwteye wrote:
| Scrum, Agile and management in general have beaten the fun
| out of me. I can imagine doing some coding for fun when
| retired. But I don't want to work for a corporation.
| tofuahdude wrote:
| Don't accept that premise!
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| The only people with that premise are those that want a higher
| defined benefit pension via Social Security, perhaps because
| they don't have sufficient wealth otherwise. That age is going
| up to 67 in 2025.
|
| Nobody with sufficient passive income to satisfy their desired
| quality of life works longer than they have to.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| My parents did. They were academics and their work and life
| were largely one and the same. Both worked until 70 and
| neither saw 75.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| Sorry, I meant the type of work where one would rather not.
| Of course people who like their quality of life at work
| will choose to continue it as long as they can.
| doug_durham wrote:
| Really? There are a lot of people who love their work. They
| work because they enjoy it.
| csomar wrote:
| The system wouldn't work otherwise and your overlords won't
| like it. We already had the pandemic and people had a slice of
| that taste. Came back with harsh interest rate hikes and
| tightening of the job market to get everyone back in line.
| HumblyTossed wrote:
| And the continued punishment of RTO (return to office).
| otteromkram wrote:
| You can work and achieve goals. No one said you can't.
|
| In terms of prestige, I would float this thought: Can you name
| the CFO of Home Depot (or, another major company of your
| choice)?
|
| I can't and I loved Home Depot. That CFO has C-suite privileges
| and prestige beyond what most will achieve, but they still
| aren't known even to people who like their product.
|
| Also, stop worrying about prestige because no one else really
| cares. We don't. We don't care if you drive a Mercedes-Benz or
| live in a tawny neighborhood. We have our own stuff to deal
| with, just like you.
|
| In fact, you'll probably get the worst side of people of your
| looking for clout. That's when folks will try to take it away
| by any means necessary. Be nice to yourself face while screwing
| you in the rear.
|
| Worry more about what you love, not what everyone thinks.
| fullshark wrote:
| Prestige/class matters as much as we want to think we are
| above it. It opens a lot of doors for you and your children.
| Money seems to open almost every door though, but only if you
| are willing to drop ungodly amounts of it.
| dyauspitr wrote:
| Yeah likewise. I get no satisfaction from any full time work.
| It might be nice for a few months but then it always turns into
| drudgery. I think most of this stems from the fact that I
| absolutely hate working with people and on teams, which is very
| different from the active social life I lead away from work. I
| don't think it's my coworkers but the very structure of a work
| place that makes it impossible for someone like me to make
| friends and enjoy my time there. On the other hand, I can spend
| hours and hours on my hobbies over decades and still always
| look forward to them.
| robocat wrote:
| The main issue with turning the dial to "life" _early_ is that
| your peer group usually hasn 't. My peers spend most of their
| time on work: sometimes to pay the bills, sometimes for status
| laddering, sometimes for reasons I don't get.
|
| I have found friends that are less focused on work - sometimes
| because they have more control over their hours and sometimes
| because they are past retirement age and sometimes because they
| don't work for other reasons.
|
| I'm looking forward to the next decade+ as maybe more of my peer
| group friends will choose (or be able to choose) to do less work
| hours/days.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| First of all, truly sorry to the author for what happened to
| them, it is devastating, and something that indeed will shake
| your world and priorities.
|
| Any advice for people who are not finding the courage to quit,
| despite probably having the financial means to do so?
|
| I came from very humble origins and moved to Silicon Valley from
| another country and have a gained a fairly solid financial
| situation, by having accumulated $5.5M liquid with expenses of
| around $50k (no kids, no mortgage, just a loving girlfriend).
|
| I am so unhappy with work. I have changed 3 employers over the
| past 4 years and I've been more and more depressed with each
| transition. I spend my life in a state of immense disappointment
| about having to work. I am not even passionate about software
| anymore, so it's not only the corporate madness (meetings,
| offices, coworkers, bosses, pressure to perform, code reviewers,
| etc). My weekends are filled with anxiety about Mondays.
|
| I haven't quit yet because everyone is telling me not to: my
| parents, still living in another country, are telling me to milk
| it until I am 45 (38 now), the few close friends I have are
| telling me not to squander the opportunity to earn until I get to
| $10-$15M due to real estate/healthcare/lifestyle costs going up
| (especially if I revisit the decision not to have kids, which I
| don't think I will), and even financial communities like
| bogleheads/fire subs are telling me it's not time yet and that I
| need to accumulate more given my privileged position.
|
| I've tried a couple therapist but it didn't work for me.
|
| I also do not have anything to retire to: no particular passions,
| or hobbies. I just dream of spending a life of slow breakfasts,
| hiking on Monday mornings to celebrate a new week, reading books,
| slow traveling, and spending more time close to my aging parents.
| zeroonetwothree wrote:
| This sounds like classic burnout. You just need to take a break
| from work, try 3 months or so.
| parpfish wrote:
| Yeah, grandparent post should just take a year long
| sabbatical and come back when they're feeling it.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| What is the reason to suggest that a break from work, as
| opposed to a retirement (more similar to the author's path),
| is more appropriate for my situation? Is it a concern about
| financials/age?
|
| After reading several people describing their experience
| (even in this thread) as "once you taste the freedom of not
| working, you will never be able to go back", I can totally
| identify myself in that, so I like to think that the decision
| of "just take a 3 months break" would become a much more
| serious one.
| hyperbrainer wrote:
| I am pretty young, so take this with a grain of salt, but
| the motivation seems simple to me: If it is burnout, then a
| short break might put things into perspective, and help him
| decide whether to retire, switch jobs, do something on his
| own etc.
| shinecantbeseen wrote:
| I'll give you my perspective having gone through something
| similar. I was in a pretty similar pit, hit rock bottom,
| and only then did every high achiever in my life open up to
| me that taking a sabbatical was the best thing they had
| done for themselves.
|
| Your original comment especially about not enjoying things,
| not knowing what your hobbies are, etc, are indicating that
| you've just lost yourself a little bit. I was in very much
| the same place. It takes some time away from what occupies
| most of your thoughts/attention (work) to re-learn who you
| were and who you are now.
|
| For me, I took 3 months away from work. For the first 2-3
| weeks I basically did "nothing." And it was only after that
| initial period did I start to remember things I enjoyed to
| do and felt motivation to go do them. After that, the
| remainder of my sabbatical was spent finding every minute I
| could spend with friends and family that I could.
|
| I came out of that sabbatical with a, still fuzzy but a bit
| clearer, understanding of what I wanted but I was still the
| same ambitious person I was before. Chances are, you would
| still be too. If you're going to do it, think of it less
| like a 3 month break and instead as giving yourself 3
| months of room to think and experience and re-introduce
| yourself to yourself.
|
| As an aside - if you're feeling and thinking these things,
| your partner likely notices too. I have no idea what your
| relationship is like but can guarantee that all this
| definitely has an affect on y'all and you won't see what it
| truly is without said room to think and contemplate.
| silverquiet wrote:
| > I just dream of spending a life of slow breakfasts, hiking on
| Monday mornings to celebrate a new week, reading books, slow
| traveling, and spending more time close to my aging parents.
|
| That sounds like a lot to retire to if you ask me. And $5.5M
| seems like quite a lot to me. Probably especially if you move
| back to your home country or almost anywhere else in the world
| outside Silicon Valley.
|
| Myself, I do have some hobbies but I'd probably go nuts without
| the structure of having a formal job. If I were you, I'd try
| and find work that I actually enjoy and find meaningful; you
| probably don't need to worry about money so much, but if you
| had a job that covered your expenses, you could let the
| principle you've already accumulated grow.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| > If I were you, I'd try and find work that I actually enjoy
| and find meaningful
|
| Thanks. That's easier said than done.
|
| A big reason why (but not the only one) work is so depressing
| is because, in every single job I had (consulting included),
| I ended up pretty quickly despising and being highly
| resentful of my managers, I just don't like being told what
| to do, "being coached", "given feedback", "pressured", and oh
| God those 1:1, I hated every single 1:1 I ever had throughout
| my career.
|
| Naturally I always put up the right facade to allow me to
| perform, but good luck finding a job without a manager.
|
| I realize this says more about me than my managers, but this
| is still the reality.
|
| FWIW, when I'm not working or depressed about the thought of
| work, I'm actually a pretty happy person.
| Dalewyn wrote:
| I think you should try a hand at running your own business,
| being your own boss. You seem to have enough money and the
| industry experience to take a shot at it.
|
| I am inclined to agree with your parents/friends, you still
| have a lot of human capital (read: your youth) to build
| financial capital with today so you can have an even more
| fulfilling life tomorrow when you no longer have all that
| human capital (read: old age).
|
| This isn't to say you shouldn't life your life now, of
| course. I wrote in another comment here that living today
| and not tomorrow is imperative[1]. But to refuse to make
| money during your prime money making years is also folly,
| because that money today will save your time tomorrow.
|
| [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41757791
| ska wrote:
| It's not folly if you have enough to manage your current
| and future needs. At some point doubling your wealth
| won't even move the needle on fulfillment - for almost
| all people. The point is of course for everyone. And in
| the other direction deferring fulfillment later for money
| now absolutely is folly when done for too long, none of
| us know how long we have.
| mikem170 wrote:
| You've got plenty of money, you're living on 1% of your
| savings, which is great - controlling expenses is significant.
|
| You should be able to invest the money with the goal of beating
| inflation and grow your pile. There's people who retire with a
| lot less. There's tools to help, where you can play with the
| numbers, investment returns, inflation rates, etc.
|
| It's difficult to predict the future. You might wish you had
| more money a couple of decades from now, or you might get hit
| by a bus next year and wish you had lived it up more when you
| had the chance. Eventually the stress of your current job is
| likely to affect your health. It takes a while to get over
| being burnt out.
|
| The safest option might be to look at your money as a wonderful
| cushion, giving you options that others only dream of. You can
| find a different job that you like, even a lower paying job
| preserves a lot of your savings. You can take time off, maybe
| doing something along the way that looks good on your resume.
| You can work on and off. You can change careers. Maybe figure
| out what you'd want to do if money were not the object. You are
| way ahead of the game. The world is your oyster!
|
| It can take a while to figure these things out. Best of luck!
| ITB wrote:
| It sounds to me like you hate work more than it's warranted in
| normal circumstances. Work-life balance aside, there might be
| something else in there.
| deanmoriarty wrote:
| Yeah it's probably true. I explored this during a therapy
| session but nothing particularly insightful came up.
|
| I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs (extremely small scale
| brick-and-mortar solo businesses in my home country, barely
| making ends meet) and I clearly remember my father and uncles
| in my childhood being very proud about "not having to work
| for someone else", probably something subconsciously stuck.
|
| To be clear, those same people are the ones who are now
| telling me to absolutely not quit my corporate march due to
| my demonstrated earning power, and to toughen up and suppress
| my feelings of unhappiness for as long as this money train
| can continue. My mother is a bit more romantic and she's
| telling me to set a deadline in my 40s, which is still way,
| way too far.
| csomar wrote:
| If you don't mind leaving the US, there are lots of places
| around the world that will make that 5.5m go way further. Keep
| a very modest/middle-class lifestyle. Never upgrade and you'll
| have ultimate peace of mind.
| jventura wrote:
| > I just dream of spending a life of slow breakfasts, hiking on
| Monday mornings to celebrate a new week, reading books, slow
| traveling, and spending more time close to my aging parents.
|
| What is really stopping you from leaving the US and go back to
| your country? Is it your girlfriend? Is that it's hard to leave
| Silicon Valley and its tech-scene (i.e., FOMO)?
|
| The money would probably be more than enough in your parents'
| country. And eventually, you could probably get bored and would
| find hobbies or passions to entertain yourself..
| ska wrote:
| Have you done the math on this? At your current expenses, you
| can live indefinitely on the proceeds of pretty safe
| investments of the 5.5mm, and still hit 10+mm by the time you
| are "regular" retirement age...
|
| It's probably too early for you to decide that you are done
| forever, but you could be if you want to.
|
| You could take a break of 1-2 years and see how that goes. Call
| it a sabbatical on your resume if you want to go back to work
| after.
| couchdb_ouchdb wrote:
| I'm still thinking about this comment 2 hours later, so I
| thought I would chime in. If you and your friends/family think
| $5.5M liquid is not enough to retire, I just want you to know,
| that you are in a very very elite and strange SV bubble. I
| don't live in SV, but I too know people with your net worth in
| SV, and they all act like they are poor and what they have is
| never enough.
|
| For this alone, I'd urge you to expand your horizons, maybe
| when you retire move out of SV or just spend time with people
| outside your circle.
| madmask wrote:
| I am an europoor from Italy but 5.5 millions.. I think I could
| retire for a few centuries
| cod1r wrote:
| Reading or seeing things like this on the internet also makes me
| reflect on my life and think about what my priorities should be,
| and I'm not really in a financial position where I can just
| retire and turn the dial all to way to "life" but the best thing
| I can learn from this is to appreciate the little things in life.
| Like living in a first world country, having food to eat, hot
| showers, a bed, good health, etc.
| kubb wrote:
| If there's a bilionare here willing to give me a basic income
| until I pass, let me know. You could even give me a condition
| like doing social or creative work. The corporate world is
| tiring, and time flies by.
| hm-nah wrote:
| Careful what you wish for. There are likely billionaires
| considering this very thing as a method of dealing with "the AI
| impact".
|
| _They_ will define what "...doing social or creative work..."
| entails, likely contractually, and then you're right back where
| you started.
|
| I think, we need to rethink, where this basic income
| originates. - Philanthropic individual
| billionaires? - Mythical creatures.
| - Philanthropic trillionaires (aka: large govts or corps)?
| - Mythical creatures. - Collective individuals
| (aka: you and me)? - Now you're on to something.
|
| Unfortunately, organizing humans is right up there with trench
| digging in terms of easy work.
| oldpersonintx wrote:
| happy he is enjoying retirement. I hope to join his ranks shortly
|
| but for most of the people you work with in tech, retirement will
| just be a fantasy
|
| it is common for my coworkers to be forever-renters now, even
| those in their late forties and fifties...I don't see how you can
| stop working if you have to pay increasing rents over time
|
| its crazy how having kids, owning a home, and retiring all became
| privilege flexes
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| I'm very sorry to hear that. It's always sad to read posts like
| this one, as the time goes by, it hits me how I'll relate to it
| sooner or later. Apologies for rambling below --
|
| I'm much younger (late 20s), don't have too many worries in life
| as my parents, albeit older, still alive, my siblings are fine,
| friends are okay, don't have that many financial troubles either
| at this point.
|
| That being said, a couple of years ago I got a text about a high
| school friend of mine passing away after years of fighting
| cancer. It was one of the weirdest emotions I've ever felt in my
| life, and I couldn't (still can't) understand why. I've seen my
| grandparents passing away in front of me, I've been to funerals,
| yet this one hit like a brick. At that point, it would've been
| about 10 years since I've talked to that friend of mine, maybe
| just exchanging some happy birthday messages from time to time.
| But we were fairly close in middle school, and later in high
| school as well, just the life drifted us apart, living in
| different cities and etc. Yet I remember the moment I read the
| text how he passed away. I remember being on a plane, and my
| entire mind being completely clouded for a week afterwards.
|
| It's like a sudden realization of how life can be very short for
| some of us, and you can lose people out of nowhere. I understand
| I've been lucky enough to never experience it until that point of
| my life, but it really sucked. And it just sucks knowing how
| it'll happen more and more, or might even happen to me.
|
| Anyways, it's been about 2 years now, and I've lost all of my
| ambitions wrt my career. Took about 6 months off as well, which
| made me realize how small and fun the world is. I know for a fact
| I won't be able to enjoy it as much in 30 years. But
| unfortunately I'm not at the point where I can do whatever I want
| yet.
|
| Until then, every work day is just a repeat of things I don't
| care about, followed by 10-20km walks to feel something. I wish
| it wasn't the case, because I consider myself slightly above
| average in terms of skills and getting things done. Every morning
| I wake up thinking if I found just one thing that I could throw
| my life or at least a couple years at, I would do a decent job.
| But it's hard to convince myself that anything matters. Then I
| remember how people that I hold dear to myself might be gone as
| well, and it becomes another day of spiralling.
|
| Anyways, sorry for Sunday morning trauma dumping, but reading the
| OP's story made me reflect on myself for a minute. Thank you.
| darkwater wrote:
| You are young and it's good you are already questioning
| yourself and thinking about these things. It's usually a mid-
| life process :) Take the good bit about it, maybe: try to focus
| on living and not working, even if having a job that you like
| is definitely part of a good life.
| shane_kerns wrote:
| I have a 10 year old daughter with a very rare genetic condition.
| She has no one to care for her if I pass away. She can't yet talk
| and operates at a 2year old level, autism is just one of the side
| effects of this genetic condition. She has learning challenges as
| well, can't read, write or understand very well. I need to leave
| behind substantial assets or money for her for her long term
| care. I would love to retire early too but I don't seem to have
| that luxury because if I do, I don't know what I will leave
| behind for my daughter's care. I've switched several jobs over
| the past decade only to find that there is nothing fulfilling
| from a job perspective. Nothing that adds value to other people's
| lives or even to my own, aside from a paycheck to pay for my own
| funeral and my daughter's future care. When the time comes I
| don't know how my daughter would manage my funeral and which bad
| people will try to take away everything that I leave behind for
| her for her care. I can't afford to give away 30% of my worth to
| law firms that will allegedly guarantee my daughter will be safe
| from some money hungry assisted living centers or other such
| nasty organizations and opening a special needs trust fund is
| equally expensive. I think I'll work my whole life or whatever is
| left of it, I'm 43 and also work in tech and this is a dying
| industry with AI taking up so many jobs like automation did in
| the automotive industry.So I'm not sure how many more good years
| I'll be able to work for, so I'm just going to put my head down
| and work humbly while I can.
| farts_mckensy wrote:
| That's so difficult, man. I'm sorry. It shouldn't be this way.
| nine_zeros wrote:
| I can't begin to imagine the weight of your story, and I know
| there are no perfect words to ease the pain of living this
| life. Please know that my thoughts are with you during this.
|
| I can only imagine the depth of your concern for your
| daughter's future, and I wish there were more I could offer.
| For now, please accept my deepest sympathy and a warm, virtual
| embrace.
| rexpop wrote:
| Don't you have friends? Family? Church community?
|
| Capitalism is alienating. One's career _rarely_ introduces one
| to lasting, trusting, bonds. I would think your top priority
| would be establishing a safe, loving community for her to be a
| part of.
| andai wrote:
| I visited some relatives who are Jehovah's Witnesses. I was
| blown away by how rich their social life was. They hung out
| with people who lived nearby all the time.
|
| I'm sure that kind of lifestyle also exists outside of a
| religious context, but it was quite striking. I've never seen
| anything like it. It made me wonder what life used to be like
| a hundred years ago, and what we've lost, or given up.
|
| I guess church is the prime example of a Third Place, which
| appear to be in short supply.
| acdha wrote:
| In that case, however, you also see the drawbacks. The
| Witnesses discourage socialization outside of the church
| and also use shunning as a method of social control: if you
| disagree with the church on anything, your options are to
| acquiesce or lose your entire social network, even family
| members.
|
| I share the desire for more social lifestyles - I think
| suburbanization is a huge driver of this - but want a
| secular form which doesn't have the drawbacks many
| religions offer.
| tuyiown wrote:
| I truly hope this comment has been seen, a few good trusted
| friends that would honor op's memory by taking care of good
| usage of his daughter resources is the safest way to go, by
| far
| silverantlers wrote:
| My parents set up a trust for my disabled brother and made
| my uncle the guardian. Unfortunately he was dishonest and
| greedy and embezzled it. Fortunately he did this before my
| parents had even passed, so we had time to come up with a
| backup plan. (The backup plan was me, and I never felt like
| I could start my own family as long as I was responsible
| for my brother, so ... that's been limiting.) Anyway...
|
| ... I've often felt like it would have been much safer to
| either make a legal firm administrators of the fund or at
| least have multiple family members on it, so that they
| might keep tabs on each other and make it harder to just
| steal. I've actually spent a lot of time thinking about
| what went wrong and what might have been different. If that
| uncle hadn't died I would probably have spent that time
| fantasizing about ways to kill him, but, as it is ... I
| just don't get to retire.
|
| I love my brother and have made peace with most of the
| consequences of what happened to him, because at a certain
| point you just have to accept the hand you're dealt and
| keep going. But the bitterness of what the world has done
| to us is still in me and I don't think it's ever going to
| leave.
|
| tl;dr - definitely don't leave just one person, even
| family, with access to a disabled person's money
| tuyiown wrote:
| Yes this is why I said a few, and having a legal firm in
| the loop is probably a good way to improve chances of
| things going well.
|
| I'm sorry you had to live through that it's truly
| horrible.
| 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
| If the alternative to capitalism is a system that relies on
| working-class people making charitable donations to other
| working-class people...
| melagonster wrote:
| I hate to say this, but a possible way is have other kids and
| expect them help their sister...
| maxaf wrote:
| Parentification is never a solution. It's merely a cruel way
| to spread misery to another person who doesn't deserve it.
| anonexpat wrote:
| Many people find it fulfilling to help those in need.
| silver_antlers wrote:
| That would be an incredibly cruel thing to do to a child.
| urda wrote:
| This is awful and cruel to do, no.
| makk wrote:
| > I hate to say this...
|
| Then don't say it. Do us all a favor.
| 2-3-7-43-1807 wrote:
| why do you react offended?
| makk wrote:
| ?
| silverantlers wrote:
| Cruelty to children is widely considered to be offensive.
| 2-3-7-43-1807 wrote:
| i think this is a reasonable consideration.
| tasuki wrote:
| > I have a 10 year old daughter with a very rare genetic
| condition. She has no one to care for her if I pass away.
|
| Wow that sucks.
|
| When my daughter was one and half years old, her mom passed
| away after one year of absolutely exhausting illness. I thought
| it was tough to be left a single father, but hey my daughter is
| perfectly healthy, so maybe I have it easy...
| 93po wrote:
| Have you looked at the social welfare programs in other
| countries and considered moving there? It would be a lot of
| work to get citizenship there for you and then your daughter,
| but it sounds entirely feasible within a decade
| vid wrote:
| I'm contemplating retirement. I find myself ostensibly in a
| workplace of high personal relevance, but it's going in the wrong
| direction, largely I think due to layers of disconnected
| professionalization that are supposed to have the answers, but
| the result is just a race to the bottom.
|
| I'd like to have more cash before retiring, but it'd be ok with a
| bit of restraint. It's mostly up to finding a good lifestyle.
|
| Thing is, I still enjoy 'tech;' the activity of programming,
| writing tests, designing things (even building workstations),
| constant learning, and the larger potential it brings to more
| than technical people, tied in with the sometimes distant idea
| that a more participatory world can be fairer and more peaceful.
|
| I wonder if an engaging hobby will appear that combines elements
| of free software, wikipedia, non-dominating personal perspective,
| and problem solving. People like solving puzzles, maybe we can
| help solve other people's puzzles too.
|
| I'm surprised it hasn't happened so far, but contributory culture
| has been abducted so many times, and the intentionally free/open
| world hasn't been very good at course correction. Which isn't
| surprising considering other powerful interests, including
| professionalization and the way "startups" took over with their
| compartmentalize and cash-out energy, the tech giants, and now of
| course AI (which could be part of a helpful system).
| "Sensemaking" was a thing for a while, but it's not really talked
| about anymore.
| anonzzzies wrote:
| I sold my first company at 25 (25 years ago almost to the day
| now) and that was retirement money and then some (I cannot spend
| the yearly interest let's say), but i've never been interested in
| retiring. I like doing what I do and can't see myself ever
| quitting; if I do, I probably will be writing 8 bit shmups for
| 80s systems. Aka; building things.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Probably unpopular opinion here, but I hope OP feels blessed that
| he _can_ retire to take care of himself and dial up his life
| after such a terrible event. Not all of us have that option. For
| most people, if someone in our family god forbid suddenly died,
| we would not be able to just take a month here to grieve, then
| another month there, then 3 more months, then just decide to
| retire. That is a rare privilege. The rest of us have to get
| right back to the grind while doing the terrible job of picking
| up the pieces during the evenings and weekends.
|
| I really envy people who lucked out in tech and can simply
| _decide_ to retire like this. I guess I would say to the author
| (and others here in the comment section who somehow have $5M
| liquid saved up): "Turn your work/life dial over to life and
| move on as you are planning, but please be grateful and thankful
| that you ended up with such outlier financial results that allow
| you to do so." I think it's good for people who have these kinds
| of options to take a step back, reflect, and recognize how lucky
| they are.
|
| Like most, I know I will probably be having to work until
| something disables me and prevents me from working, regardless of
| what tragedies life decides to throw at me.
| markvdb wrote:
| Rare is the western world tech worker without kids or
| debilitating illness who can not easily retire early.
| sokoloff wrote:
| The Shockingly Simple Math Behind Early Retirement:
|
| https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-
| si...
| ryandrake wrote:
| As long as you are just expecting math and not a
| generalizable strategy for retirement. The "simple math"
| behind Mr. Money Mustache is: Have no mortgage, multiple
| properties providing income, a blog providing income
| (including making recommendations of financial services
| that provide him affiliate income), and have nothing go
| wrong with your life financially or health-wise... and then
| you can retire with no[1] income! OK I'll get right on
| that...
|
| Similar formula behind other get-wealthy motivational
| writers: Sell lots of books to people who gobble up get-
| wealthy motivational books, and collect royalties for life.
|
| MMM is Personal Finance Porn: A story of one guy's very
| lucky and privileged life path, not generalizable to
| everyone else's situation even though it's sold as that.
|
| [1] using a very flexible definition of "no"
| sokoloff wrote:
| That's Pete's personal situation, but the simple math
| works for anyone (especially most western tech workers).
|
| You have to be willing to curtail your consumption, which
| gives a double effect (lets you save and invest more and
| you need less from those investments).
|
| Not everyone wants to do that, but that means they won't
| retire early.
| ryandrake wrote:
| ...and don't get seriously sick, and don't have elderly
| parents that need expensive care, and don't have family
| overseas who need financial support, and make sure your
| kids don't get accepted to an expensive university, and
| and and... then you can apply MMM's very generalizable
| advice.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I always like to learn; I'll be happy to read your
| better/alternative advice; just post it here or provide a
| link.
| ryandrake wrote:
| I'd be retired already if I had the magical advice.
| _wire_ wrote:
| If you've never contemplated the value of your life, an encounter
| with death awakens novel feelings and thoughts, and may lead to
| changes in meaning.
|
| But changes can't escape your circumstances, which you must
| suffer nonetheless. Make any change in priorities and you're
| still as beholden to your life's vicissitudes.
|
| It's common with death to find sudden compassion for self and
| others, and a compassionate disposition may lead to remarkable
| changes of feelings about life and attenuate obsessive responses.
| This is not necessarily good.
|
| All thinking about death misapprehends the finality of death for
| thought.
|
| You can learn do what you want, but you can't conserve time. Life
| can't be optimized. Moreover, an efficient world would have
| prevented your existence in the first place.
|
| But there are trails left by others to follow.
|
| The time to make things right for yourself and others is always
| here and now. In any situation, there's a chance things can
| improve because you're here. And if you can't make things right
| here and now, maybe you can elsewhere later.
|
| Going for treatment? Appreciate the work of those treating you.
|
| Not going for treatment? Appreciate being of service to others.
|
| Don't understand the importance of your work? You have something
| to work on.
|
| Others don't understand where you're coming from? Be on lookout
| for others who need attention.
|
| Pass on enjoyment.
|
| ----
|
| Bob Dylan:
|
| _The man in me will do nearly any task And as for compensation,
| there 's a little he would ask_
|
| _It take a woman like you To get through to the man in me_
|
| _Storm clouds are raging all around my door I think to myself I
| might not take it any more_
|
| _Take a woman like your kind To find the man in me_
|
| _But, oh, what a wonderful feeling Just to know that you are
| near It sets my a heart a-reeling From my toes up to my ears_
|
| _The man in me will hide sometimes to keep from bein ' seen But
| that's just because he doesn't wanna turn into some machine_
|
| _It take a woman like you To get through to the man in me_
| vvanders wrote:
| Fuck.
|
| I had Bruce as a teacher in one of our early CS classes at
| college, he showed us all sorts of black-magic performance
| tricks(at least as it appeared to us at the time) and that
| curiosity in wanting to understand the how/why played a large
| part in where I am today.
|
| I don't know if it's any consolation but I know he had an
| outsized impact on a number of us back then.
| imroot wrote:
| About six years ago, my seven year old son passed away: he had
| liver cancer at a really young age, had a full liver transplant
| at six months, and lost all hearing as a side effect of the anti-
| rejection medications. It was a sudden turn -- he was
| participating in his school's holiday program on a Friday
| (spending the rest of the afternoon with me at work on his iPad
| because neither mom or the babysitter could pick him up) and had
| passed on a Wednesday.
|
| My job at the time gave me three days off before calling to ask
| me if I could come back to work, with my boss and HR on the line
| telling me that they also 'gave me the weekend' (since I was on-
| call when it happened). When I said that I needed more time away
| in order to deal with it, they fired me, then begged me to come
| back as a contractor a few months later.
|
| I was so upset over the things that happened that I turned them
| down -- it wasn't what I wanted to do and it wasn't how I wanted
| to be treated: I'm much more selective about where I'm working at
| these days.
| didgeoridoo wrote:
| Good Lord. I hope your manager took an extremely long look in
| the mirror after that phone call.
|
| When my 5 month old daughter got her heart transplant, my
| manager at Salesforce essentially said, "be with your family,
| call us when things settle down." I'd only been there for 3
| months. I took 3 weeks to get her home from the hospital, set
| up our new routine, and mentally reset. Didn't get a single
| work-related Slack, text, or call during that time.
|
| Might have just been a great manager, but I think the overall
| culture was a big factor too. Not sure if that's ever really
| something you can pick up on during the hiring process, though.
| imroot wrote:
| My manager was just following orders to protect his job: he
| has kids and a wife at home and I don't blame him, but, he's
| one of the few bosses that I don't keep in communication
| with.
|
| I hope your daughter is doing better and is adapting to a
| normal life post-transplant.
| mobilene wrote:
| I'm blown away that this was their response.
|
| My oldest child committed suicide on New Year's Eve of 2021,
| aged 36. I reached out to my boss and HR saying I'd need some
| time away. HR responded by telling me not to report to work for
| two weeks. We'd talk at that point about whether I was ready to
| come back or not, with a possible extension if need be.
|
| This is the way you do it.
| imroot wrote:
| If you knew who it was, and understood the culture there,
| it'd be totally on brand for them.
|
| Large, global retailer with their tech center in the Midwest.
| Most of the long term goals were presented from Italy, most
| of my coworkers were there because they had been there for
| 10-20 years and were zombies waiting on their package so that
| the company could move their jobs to Dallas.
|
| Ironically enough, when I relocated to Dallas, one of their
| recruiters reached out. I think it was one of the few times
| that I've ever been unprofessional and was laughing as I hung
| up the phone to a recruiter.
| y-curious wrote:
| Sorry about your son. I hope you have found a semblance of
| peace.
| dottjt wrote:
| I found out a week ago that my partner has stage 4 sarcoma. The
| prognosis is poor. It's been difficult because we have a 1 year
| old toddler, so naturally we can't go out and do something big
| without it affecting them. Furthermore, the cancer has inhibited
| her ability to move.
|
| At first it was complete shock. The next few days were complete
| confusion and sadness. However, I think one thing you learn
| pretty quickly is that acceptance is the only path forward, and
| that if you don't accept early, you will only get worse. I'm
| really grateful that I've had many, many years of therapy prior
| to this, so that I at least can identify the tools to bring me
| back out of the grief.
|
| I would say that I'm somewhat stable now. I don't necessarily
| fear what might happen in the future, although grim. Have my
| feelings changed? Not necessarily, but they don't affect me in
| the same way they used to. I let them be there, however I do not
| attempt to push them away or let them consume me. A few days
| prior I would struggle to wake up in the morning, however after
| going through therapy I can usually wake up early.
|
| If anyone is struggling, I would recommend a book called "The
| Happiness Trap" it's been instrumental in getting my mind back on
| track.
| darkwater wrote:
| We don't know each other, but I send you a hug anyway. Take
| care of you and your family.
| tasuki wrote:
| My partner died of cancer two years ago. Our daughter was one
| and half years old. We're doing fine now.
|
| The year of dealing with my kid's mom's cancer was by far the
| worst time in my life. I quit my career to focus on taking care
| of the two of them, and it was still impossible to meet the
| needs of both of them.
|
| Hang in there!
| w10-1 wrote:
| I'm sorry the OP has to endure this. Grief is long.
|
| The story reminds me that busy people don't seek health care
| enough (not saying it would have changed anything in this case).
|
| We wait until something is so bad that we can't work. But we
| really don't want to wait.
|
| Roughly speaking, health care can prevent many, many things, but
| it's rare that it can solve something once it's so bad that it
| actually interferes with life or work. So the real efficacy of
| health care lies in prevention and early intervention.
|
| It's natural to be prone to choosing the urgent over the
| important. That's why you should counter by encouraging those in
| your circle to take care, since you would never de-prioritize the
| important for your loved ones. So get them to do it, and do it
| for them.
|
| Preventative care is mostly a matter of self-education (based on
| real sources), self-monitoring, and nurturing good active
| providers. It's not strongly limited by resources. It includes
| building trust within your biological family to share genetic
| risks and disease incidence. Knowledge and monitoring should
| increase your confidence and peace of mind (i.e., if you find it
| making you anxious, then it's existential anxiety directed at
| health, which should be otherwise addressed). And there may not
| be a "payback" because you may never know what problems you
| prevented; the only feedback would be relief from catching
| something early enough to do something about it. So it's not part
| of the reward system feedback loop; just do it on principle,
| based on the efficacy profile of health care with prevention and
| early detection.
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