[HN Gopher] Statisticians use a technique that leverages randomn...
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       Statisticians use a technique that leverages randomness to deal
       with the unknown
        
       Author : Duximo
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2024-10-03 07:08 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.quantamagazine.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.quantamagazine.org)
        
       | xiaodai wrote:
       | I don't know. I find quanta articles very high noise. It's always
       | hyping something
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | I don't find the language of the article full of "hype"; they
         | describe the history of different forms of imputation from
         | single to multiple to ML-based.
         | 
         | The table is particularly useful as it describes what the
         | article is all about in a way that can stick to students'
         | minds. I'm very grateful for QuantaMagazine for its popular
         | science reporting.
        
         | vouaobrasil wrote:
         | I agree with that. I skip the Quanta magazine articles, mainly
         | because the titles seem to be a little to hyped for my taste
         | and don't represent the content as well as they should.
        
       | light_hue_1 wrote:
       | I wish they actually engaged with this issue instead of writing a
       | fluff piece. There are plenty of problems with multiple
       | imputation.
       | 
       | Not the least of which is that it's far too easy to do the
       | equivalent of p hacking and get your data to be significant by
       | playing games with how you do the imputation. Garbage in, garbage
       | out.
       | 
       | I think all of these methods should be abolished from the
       | curriculum entirely. When I review papers in the ML/AI I
       | automatically reject any paper or dataset that uses imputation.
       | 
       | This is all a consequence of the terrible statics used in most
       | fields. Bayesian methods don't need to do this.
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | There are plenty of legit. articles that discuss/survey
         | imputation in ML/AI:
         | https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22m...
        
           | light_hue_1 wrote:
           | The prestigious journal "Artificial intelligence in
           | medicine"? No. Just because it's on Google scholar doesn't
           | mean it's worth anything. These are almost all trash. On the
           | first page there's one maybe legit paper in an ok venue as
           | far as ML is concerned (KDD; an adjacent field to ML) that's
           | 30 years old.
           | 
           | No. AI/ML folks don't do imputation on our datasets. I cannot
           | think of a single major dataset in vision, nlp, or robotics
           | that does so. Despite missing data being a huge issue in
           | those fields. It's an antiqued method for an antiqued idea of
           | how statistics should work that is doing far more damage than
           | good.
        
         | DAGdug wrote:
         | Maybe in academia, where sketchy incentives rule. In industry,
         | p-hacking is great till you're eventually caught for doing
         | nonsense that isn't driving real impact (still, the lead time
         | is enough to mint money).
        
           | light_hue_1 wrote:
           | Very doubtful. There are plenty of drugs that get approved
           | and are of questionable value. Plenty of procedures that turn
           | out to be not useful. The incentives in industry are even
           | worse because everything depends on lying with data if you
           | can do it.
        
             | hggigg wrote:
             | Indeed. Even worse some entire academic fields are built on
             | pillars of lies. I was married to a researcher in one of
             | them. Anything that compromises the existence of the field
             | just gets written off. The end game is this fed into life
             | changing healthcare decisions so one should never assume
             | academia is harmless. This was utterly painful watching it
             | from the perspective of a mathematician.
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | Does any living statistician come close to the level of Donald
       | Rubin in terms of research impact? Missing data analysis, causal
       | inference, EM algorithm, any probably more. He just walks around
       | creating new subfields.
        
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