[HN Gopher] Manna - Two Views of Humanity's Future (2003)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Manna - Two Views of Humanity's Future (2003)
        
       Author : thesuperbigfrog
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2024-10-04 17:40 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (marshallbrain.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (marshallbrain.com)
        
       | bigfishrunning wrote:
       | I was told this was a science fiction novel, but it reads more
       | like a bulleted list of socialist talking points.
        
         | sgarland wrote:
         | In the story, the utopia was gained by purchasing land as a
         | group, and then sharing its resources. What a frightening
         | concept!
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | "The capitalists are surely going to treat me well after they
         | can replace my labor with robots"
        
       | jpm_sd wrote:
       | (2003)
       | 
       | This is 20yr old and wasn't that good in the first place. Star
       | Trek and Iain Banks did it better IMHO
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna_(novel)
        
         | thesuperbigfrog wrote:
         | Title updated with year.
         | 
         | I did not realize that it was that old.
        
         | ihumanable wrote:
         | I read this many years ago. I do think for being written in
         | 2003 it's interesting to read again now and see in the last 20
         | years what parts seem more or less plausible.
         | 
         | I think the nice thing about science fiction is that even bad
         | science fiction can contain within interesting ideas. Sorta
         | like pizza, even bad pizza is pretty good.
        
       | mooreds wrote:
       | Love this story. Yes, it is a bit heavy handed, but prescient in
       | some of the ways that society has evolved in response to more and
       | more automation. The alternate future is a bit pollyanna but
       | worth considering.
       | 
       | After all the 40 hour work week isn't a law of nature either.
        
         | fouc wrote:
         | I've always thought the headset with Manna giving directions
         | was just a fancy way of working from a checklist/todolist with
         | a bit of context awareness/smarts/and gamification perhaps.
         | 
         | We can probably implement a "personal-Manna" with today's tech.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Manna - Two Views of Humanity 's Future_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40780701 - June 2024 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna - Two Views of Humanity 's Future (2003)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40446197 - May 2024 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna - Two Views of Humanity 's Future (2003)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39992324 - April 2024 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Marshall Brain 's "Manna" (2003)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39406702 - Feb 2024 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna - Two Views of Humanity's Future_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24866389 - Oct 2020 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna by Marshall Brain_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9547327 - May 2015 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9206184 - March
       | 2015 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _Manna, Chapter One_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2828736 - July 2011 (1
       | comment)
        
         | fouc wrote:
         | I'm rather surprised there hasn't been much discussion on Manna
         | before, such a great novella.
        
       | Archelaos wrote:
       | > In the early twenty-first century, there were millions of
       | businesses that operated in this way.
       | 
       | According to Ibis World there are "only" 548,062 Global fast food
       | restaurants businesses worldwide in 2024.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ibisworld.com/global/number-of-
       | businesses/global...
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | How does that matter? The sentence doesn't actually say
         | "millions of _fast-food_ businesses ", it's emphasizing the
         | popularity of a manager/employee work relationship without
         | being limited to fast-food.
         | 
         | Also, the word "business" is often used in a way that refers to
         | particular stores or sites, rather than always meaning a top-
         | level corporate legal-ownership entity. You can point at a
         | local boarded-over Starbucks and say "that business closed"
         | without meaning a global shutdown.
        
       | seryoiupfurds wrote:
       | I always had a cynical thought -- what if, after he got the brain
       | stem implant and entered the post scarcity voluntary cooperative
       | paradise, his body was really right back in the warehouse doing
       | drudge labour while he experienced a simulation of utopia?
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | You might enjoy the series Severance on Apple TV. It's one of
         | my favorite TV shows of the past 5 years.
        
           | bckr wrote:
           | Ah, I should keep watching that. I don't think I finished the
           | first season yet. Maybe because it's horrifying and bleak
        
       | time0ut wrote:
       | I've read this a few times over the years. Always amusing to
       | experience the shift from totally believable to totally absurd as
       | the second view is presented.
        
       | zem wrote:
       | people who like this might like ernest callenbach's "ecotopia"
       | (from 1975), and cory doctorow's "walkaway", which cover some of
       | the same themes.
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | Another fun read from Marshall Brain: "The Second Intelligent
       | Species: How Humans Will Become as Irrelevant as Cockroaches"
       | available on Amazon.
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | It's a story I cite fairly often.
       | 
       | A few others which examine this sort of thing are:
       | 
       | - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cookie_Monster_(novella)
       | 
       | - https://qntm.org/mmacevedo (originally published as:
       | https://qntm.org/lena )
       | 
       | and I can never miss a chance to recommend "Raindrop" from Hal
       | Clement's _Space Lash_ (originally published as _Small Changes_)
       | 
       | At some point in the future one hopes that a technology will be
       | developed which allows doing more than just pillaging the earth's
       | resources for some additional comfort/convenience/energy,
       | agriculture and improvements on it would be that, except that by
       | making Malthus wrong, they've just increased the number of people
       | for whom problems need to be resolved --- computing had the
       | potential to do this, but the discussion about taxing CPUs to
       | fund a universal basic income or even job re-training for
       | displaced workers never got out the gate --- solar may be the
       | first such, but it really needs more adoption, and an
       | implementation which doesn't depend on batteries which added a
       | fifth item to the resources humans plunder:
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/112974899-material-world
       | 
       | (the newcomer is lithium, the others were sand, salt, copper, and
       | oil)
       | 
       | We keep crossing tipping points which no one talks about much:
       | 
       | https://what-if.xkcd.com/33/
       | 
       | and folks have been writing science fiction stories on this sort
       | of thing since _Make Room, Make Room!_ (and the public is
       | moderately familiar with the movie version _Soylent Green_)
       | 
       | What technologies or social changes offer an escape hatch?
       | 
       | - cold fusion?
       | 
       | - making limestone out of CO2 in warm moist air (needs abundant
       | energy and either an affordable/available reagent or a new
       | process)
       | 
       | - switching folks from eating beef to something else?
       | 
       | - desalination (needs abundant energy, and a compleatness which
       | will prevent issues such as:
       | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1134/S106422931502009X )
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-10-04 23:02 UTC)