[HN Gopher] UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       UK will give sovereignty of Chagos Islands to Mauritius
        
       Author : andystanton
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2024-10-03 10:43 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.co.uk)
        
       | zarzavat wrote:
       | Did they agree who will get the the .io ccTLD? Or is that up to
       | ICANN?
        
         | corobo wrote:
         | I have no answers - just a note there's another discussion
         | regarding .io here if anyone wants more readin'
         | 
         | Ask HN: What happens to ".io" TLD after UK gives back the
         | Chagos Islands? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729526
        
       | rafram wrote:
       | The British Indian Ocean Territory is probably better known in
       | the tech world for its top-level domain: .io.
        
         | exdsq wrote:
         | Which is owned by a hedge fund, and thankfully not part of this
         | deal (so it's not at risk!)
        
           | Scoundreller wrote:
           | What are some new countries we can create so we end up with a
           | cool TLD?
           | 
           | There's gotta be someone willing to fund this.
        
           | ezfe wrote:
           | It being owned by a hedge fund doesn't change the fact that
           | ICAAN policies will retire the ccTLD.
           | 
           | Whether they choose to NOT APPLY those policies is a
           | different matter that, again, isn't changed by who owns it
           | but instead by use.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | It might well be at risk.
           | 
           | Extensive discussion here:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729526
           | 
           | TL;DR: ICANN policy forces deletion if CC disappears from the
           | ISO list of countries, with one famous exception (.su); but
           | Mauritius could cut a Tuvalu-style deal to maintain it.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | TLD "owners" own TLDs in much the same way that we own
           | domains, and it's very possible that ICANN phases out the .io
           | domain when the British Indian Ocean Territory ceases to
           | exist. From what we gathered in the other thread it somewhat
           | depends on what ISO decides to do with its codes.
           | 
           | At a minimum I expect that control over the .io domain will
           | go to Mauritius and they'll be able to reassign it as desired
           | (since they never contracted with the hedge fund). But the
           | typical path for a code when its country goes defunct is to
           | get phased out.
        
             | gnfargbl wrote:
             | The more I think about it, the more I agree that this is
             | the likely outcome.
             | 
             | IO has been in the ISO standard forever, so there's plenty
             | of historical precedent (like UK). Furthermore, it
             | continues to be descriptive of a specific part of the world
             | (like SU). The easy move here is for the ISO committee to
             | mark IO as exceptionally reserved, for ICANN to declare
             | that this of course makes it a special historical case
             | which sets no precedent, and for everything to continue
             | mostly as usual.
             | 
             | This assumes, of course, that ICANN aren't looking to make
             | some kind of example/statement about misuse of ccTLDs. If
             | they are, things may be different.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | What does this means in terms of global politics and US having a
       | base there?
       | 
       | I also assume .io no longer being controlled by UK? ( Which is
       | somewhat worrying )
        
         | quickthrowman wrote:
         | > What does this means in terms of global politics and US
         | having a base there?
         | 
         | Absolutely nothing. The US still has a base on the island of
         | Cuba [0], they aren't giving up Diego Garcia.
         | 
         | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_Naval_Base
        
           | ossobuco wrote:
           | > US still has a base on the island of Cuba
           | 
           | Ah, you mean the illegal torture prison against which the
           | Cuban government has been protesting since 1959.
        
             | ta1243 wrote:
             | Sure. It's still there though, 65 years later.
             | 
             | The US will go where it pleases and do what it wants, just
             | like the great European empires of the 17th through 19th
             | centuries. Sure it's Amazon and Google rather than an East
             | India Company, but it's the same themes.
        
       | pbiggar wrote:
       | > The remaining British overseas territories are: Anguilla,
       | Bermuda, British Antarctic Territory, British Virgin Islands,
       | Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, Montserrat,
       | Pitcairn, Saint Helena, Ascension and Tristan da Cunha, South
       | Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands, Turks and Caicos Islands.
       | There are also two sovereign base areas on Cyprus under British
       | jurisdiction.
       | 
       | Good note at the end
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | And quite a few of those in shady financial dealings. Happily
         | hiding and laundering money for various kleptocrats. It has
         | been noted that, just as the Roman Empire didn't really
         | disappear - it became a church, the British Empire didn't
         | really disappear - it became a bank.
         | 
         | The British government likes to make various noises about
         | cleaning this up, but there are too many businesses in the City
         | of London making money off the system for there to be much
         | chance of that happening.
        
           | rich_sasha wrote:
           | > the Roman Empire didn't really disappear - it became a
           | church, the British Empire didn't really disappear - it
           | became a bank.
           | 
           | Great quip!
        
       | krapp wrote:
       | I recommend the Behind the Bastards series "How the British
       | Empire and U.S. DoD Murdered an Island Paradise" about the Chagos
       | islands for deeper context.
        
       | janice1999 wrote:
       | See also "How the British Empire and U.S. Department of Defense
       | Murdered an Island Paradise" ... "the story of the Chagos
       | Islands, a paradise founded by former slaves that was wiped out
       | by the British empire so they could lease it to the U.S. as an
       | air base" [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-
       | bastards-29236...
        
         | itohihiyt wrote:
         | I'm unaware of the details but wasn't the island chain sold to
         | the British?
        
       | matthewmorgan wrote:
       | Some countries have constitutions that forbid giving up any parts
       | of its territory, but apparently our government can hand over
       | sovereignty without even a vote in parliament
        
         | jplrssn wrote:
         | The UN General Assembly and various UN courts have ruled that
         | the UK had no sovereignty over the Chagos Islands in the first
         | place.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55848126
        
           | matthewmorgan wrote:
           | Irrelevant.
        
             | Maxatar wrote:
             | Maybe to you, but not to the UK government.
        
               | SllX wrote:
               | The UK has a permanent seat on the UNSC including the
               | ultimate single-member veto and on the sliding scale of
               | fiction to non-fiction, international law is a lot closer
               | to the fictional end. The UK choosing to transfer
               | sovereignty to another country is not in-line with a
               | ruling that says they don't have sovereignty. They've
               | chosen to be done with this controversy.
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | The UN General Assembly is little more than an opinion poll,
           | legally speaking.
        
           | 10xalphadev wrote:
           | The UN is relevant how? Anyway, UK did the right thing,
           | though. Now get rid of that US hegemony-supporting base.
        
         | rich_sasha wrote:
         | Without going into the sentiment of this, I suppose Chaos
         | Islands are not part of the _United Kingdom_ but rather an
         | overseas territory, so more like  "property", to put it
         | bluntly. I guess the government can just give away a building
         | it owns, and this is more analogous than giving away
         | "territory". And there is no current indigenous population
         | there either.
         | 
         | But yeah, Jersey is also an overseas territory, can the
         | government just give that away?
        
           | Maxatar wrote:
           | The United Kingdom has parliamentary supremacy with little to
           | no checks or balances, so if the parliament wants to give
           | away something, there is nothing that can really stop them.
        
           | SllX wrote:
           | Jersey is a Crown Dependency, not an Overseas Territory. They
           | share a King and the UK is responsible for their defense, but
           | domestically Crown Dependencies are more independent of
           | Parliament than your average British overseas territory.
        
             | rich_sasha wrote:
             | Ok, fair point. Can the UK hand over Bermuda, or Cayman
             | isles?
             | 
             | I vaguely remember handing over the Falkland Islands to
             | Argentina was actually on the cards before the invasion, so
             | perhaps surprisingly the answer is "yes".
        
               | Maxatar wrote:
               | While I was downvoted my answer is correct. The UK
               | parliament can and has ceded territory and all that is
               | required is an act of parliament.
               | 
               | It seems like people forget that the UK ceded everything
               | from Ireland which was a UK constituent as opposed to a
               | UK subject as well as Canada, Australia, India and
               | numerous other territories.
               | 
               | In the UK, parliament is supreme and has the final
               | authority.
        
               | forinti wrote:
               | Which highlights how stupid the war was. Argentina should
               | have invested in a better relationship with the islands.
               | They would all be speaking Spanish by now.
        
         | threemux wrote:
         | I'm assuming all this is contingent on a treaty vote in
         | Parliament? I'm not familiar with how it works in the UK
        
           | Maxatar wrote:
           | Yes, of course Parliament will need to vote on this, but the
           | Prime Minister of the UK has approved it and unlike in the
           | US., in the UK votes are predominantly along party lines so
           | it will pass.
        
             | threemux wrote:
             | And it can be approved with a bare majority?
        
               | SilverBirch wrote:
               | Bare majority, and with our whipping system and current
               | parliament (massive one party domination) it will go
               | through with ease. It has to go through the House of
               | Lords too, and the current government don't have a real
               | majority there but they're extremely reticent to oppose
               | the democratically elected house so it'll likely sail
               | through there too.
        
             | atvrager wrote:
             | Can I visit the world you're in, where votes in US Congress
             | aren't predominantly along party lines?
        
               | atq2119 wrote:
               | Yeah, the real difference is that in the US, there is a
               | separate election for president. In the UK, as in many
               | other countries, the party that wins parliament gets to
               | form the government (and determine the prime minister or
               | whatever the title of the de facto head of the executive
               | is). In some countries this is complicated by multiparty
               | systems where coalitions are required, but the general
               | idea of aligning the legislative and executive branches
               | in this way is fairly common.
        
             | andyjohnson0 wrote:
             | > Yes, of course Parliament will need to vote on this
             | 
             | Not the case. The executive makes treaties. Parliament can
             | scrutinise them but has no general ratification or veto
             | role. See https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-
             | briefings/cbp-... .
        
               | cherryteastain wrote:
               | The Parliament being sovereign, it can pass an act about
               | anything. It could certainly pass an act forbidding the
               | government from ceding territory to a foreign power.
               | However, since the current government holds a majority in
               | parliament, in practice it won't happen.
        
           | andyjohnson0 wrote:
           | In the UK the executive (ie "the government") makes and
           | ratifies treaties, using delegated authority [1] from the
           | monarch.
           | 
           | There is no general rule that parliament has to ratify, or
           | even scrutinise, a treaty. The main exceptions are if the
           | treaty requires domestic legislation to be passed by
           | parliament, or if the treaty has significant constitutionap
           | implications. Given our un-codified constitution here in the
           | UK, I would imagine the latter constaint comes with some
           | wriggle-room.
           | 
           | This [2] briefing by the House of Commons Library lays it all
           | out.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative_in_the_Un
           | ite...
           | 
           | [2] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-
           | briefings/cbp-...
        
       | bpodgursky wrote:
       | > African nations began to speak with one voice on the issue,
       | pushing the UK hard on the issue of decolonialisation.
       | 
       | I wish the journalists had a little more sophistication on this.
       | African nations began to push the UK on this because China and
       | Russia understand that Diego Garcia is a critical port, and made
       | investment + aid/ bribery + weapons (China / Russia respectively)
       | conditional on forcing the issue.
        
         | exdsq wrote:
         | I believe we will keep the port there with the US?
        
         | mppm wrote:
         | Huh? I had the impression that the entire international
         | community (sans UK, US & Israel) has been pushing for this for
         | years, and quite insistently since the 2021 ITLOS judgement.
         | Also, the US will keep it's base as part of the settlement.
        
           | gottorf wrote:
           | It would be naive to believe that the Chinese will not build
           | a competing naval base there, and encroach upon Mauritius's
           | sovereignty over time.
        
             | mppm wrote:
             | Apart from this being pure speculation, where exactly would
             | they build it? The archipelago has a _tiny_ land area and
             | the only atoll suitable for building a base is kinda
             | already taken... Also, the primary strategic importance of
             | Diego Garcia is to support US operations in the Middle
             | East, where China has never interfered to any significant
             | extent.
        
               | chilmers wrote:
               | Also, wouldn't the US and UK insist on a clause in the
               | treaty that Mauritius can't do this?
        
               | MaxHoppersGhost wrote:
               | You could say the same about the South China Sea before
               | the Chinese started building islands out there.
        
             | fmajid wrote:
             | They already have a base in Djibouti which is far more
             | useful.
        
         | toyg wrote:
         | I'd like to see your sources on this.
         | 
         | I expect it's a bit simpler than that: anti-colonial policies
         | resonate deeply with African voters, and are very
         | uncontroversial.
        
           | bpodgursky wrote:
           | African voters, to the extent that they have any vote at all
           | [1], have vastly more important things to care about than a
           | tiny island in the Indian ocean. I would in fact bet a lot of
           | money that vastly fewer than 1% of African voters, in any
           | country, know about the Chagos Islands at all.
           | 
           | [1] Mostly, not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Af
           | rica#/media/Fil...
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Yeah but when $dictator shows up on tv and talks about
             | figthing $bloodyColonialists at the UN, it's
             | uncontroversial (regardless of the issue being fought) and
             | takes time from talking about his
             | embezzlement/corruption/etc.
             | 
             | Meanwhile, behind the scenes, they can go cap in hand to
             | $bloodyColonialists and ask "do you want me to shut up?
             | Give me $something".
             | 
             | This requires no shadowy influence from this or that
             | supposed Great Power.
        
         | mmooss wrote:
         | Where is some evidence of this version of the story?
        
         | mardifoufs wrote:
         | Ah yes, because the UK has no agency and clearly hasn't shown
         | itself to be very okay at standing up against Russia for
         | example.
        
         | aguaviva wrote:
         | In other words: The African nations have no agency or
         | legitimate motivations of their own, and are just doing what
         | China and Russia bully them to do. Apparently they don't even
         | appreciate the significance of the military base on those
         | islands. It is left for the adults in the room (Russia and
         | China) to think and operate on such a level.
         | 
         | Of course no one here is naive, and we all know already that
         | external operators have their influence, and (though the
         | commenter provides no evidence) it's certainly possible, likely
         | even, that such influence came into play here to some degree.
         | 
         | Nonetheless, the commenter's phrasing and implicit attitude
         | toward these nations seems weirdly patronizing and, well,
         | colonial.
        
       | tmpz22 wrote:
       | Interestingly this includes the military base of Diego Garcia
       | which is strategically important. I imagine the US will pay
       | Mauritius a bucket load of money for continued use.
        
         | zie wrote:
         | I imagine ALL of this was hinging on some long term agreement
         | where the US gets to keep Diego Garcia.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | It seems the US are continuing to pay the UK and the UK is
         | buying off Mauritius.
        
       | avinash wrote:
       | I'm a citizen of the Republic of Mauritius and, when this news
       | was announced today, there was a general sense of relief.
       | 
       | Mauritius has been fighting for its sovereignty over the Chagos
       | Archipelago (with Diego Garcia being the largest island) for 56
       | years.
       | 
       | Today, the Chagos Archipelago is part of Mauritius again and a
       | treaty will (hopefully) soon be signed between the UK and
       | Mauritius.
       | 
       | From there, Mauritius will sign a lease agreement of 99 years
       | with the USA so that the military base there can continue to
       | operate.
       | 
       | Of course, there will surely be a lot of money involved but we
       | don't have the details yet.
        
         | throw0101d wrote:
         | > _From there, Mauritius will sign a lease agreement of 99
         | years with the USA so that the military base there can continue
         | to operate._
         | 
         | Seems to be a lease with the UK (which then 'sub-leases' to the
         | US?):
         | 
         | * https://www.reuters.com/world/britain-agrees-chagos-
         | island-s...
         | 
         | Curious to know if there will be extension provisions: people
         | think 99 years is a long time (which isn't wrong), but Hong
         | Kong went back to China after that period of time.
        
           | avinash wrote:
           | Possibly. The treaty has not been signed yet.
           | 
           | Things will become clearer in the coming weeks.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | Legally that makes the most sense as it leaves everything
           | where it is. The whole place is a weird combination of US/UK
           | culture and standards.
        
           | connicpu wrote:
           | It's easier to move a single military base at the end of a
           | lease than an entire country
        
             | mmooss wrote:
             | AFAIK, the US and UK value Diego Garcia because currently
             | there aren't geographical alternatives for that base. Where
             | else could they put it that would have the same benefits?
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | There are multiple islands and archipelagos in the
               | region.
               | 
               | Close to Africa/ME: Maldives, Seychelles, Comoros,
               | Mayotte
               | 
               | Close to SE Asia: Cocos and Christmas Island
               | 
               | Diego Garcia just happened to be forcibly depopulated by
               | the British, so was a convenient choice.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | Close to Africa/ME: Maldives, Seychelles, Comoros,
               | Mayotte       Close to SE Asia: Cocos and Christmas
               | Island
               | 
               | That's the whole point of Diego Garcia: It's not "close
               | to" anywhere, and it's nearly in the middle of a bunch of
               | places. That's what give it its strategic importance.
        
               | mmooss wrote:
               | I mean, what current option is equivalent to Diego
               | Garcia? Are any of those options realistic right now?
        
               | BurningFrog wrote:
               | The lease expires in 2123. The militarily strategic
               | landscape then is pretty much unknowable.
               | 
               | To a 1925 (99 years _ago_ ) military force, the Diego
               | Garcia airfield would have had zero importance.
        
               | mmooss wrote:
               | I wonder if they would have anticipated its value. I can
               | anticipate a moon base would be valuable in 2123 even
               | though it has little present value.
        
           | scottLobster wrote:
           | Yeah, but Mauritius isn't China. If the UK had reneged on the
           | Hong Kong lease, there were economic and military options for
           | China to potentially enforce it.
           | 
           | A lot can happen in 99 years, but even assuming a serious
           | decline in US economic/military might I don't see a scenario
           | where Mauritius could successfully enforce the lease on its
           | own.
        
             | ta1243 wrote:
             | Mauritius isn't China today. In 99 years time it could be
             | part of a China. Or a future country that is more powerful
             | than China.
        
               | thefounder wrote:
               | Well someone more powerful would not care about the lease
               | agreements anyway so if the U.S can't fight back the
               | lease agreement won't help them anyway. See Russia-
               | Ukcraine and the agreements that were signed. They are
               | not worth their paper
        
             | simonh wrote:
             | If the treaty is UK law, they can take the case to UK
             | courts. It's not guaranteed to work, it depends on the
             | legal technicalities, but the government has no say in the
             | findings of UK courts.
             | 
             | A lot can happen in 99 years, but as Hong Kong shows, the
             | UK has a decent track record on long term legal continuity.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | How does this affect fishing territory and economic zones for
         | Mauritius?
        
         | mmooss wrote:
         | Congratulations! Would you be willing to go into more depth on
         | why you feel relieved? You've spelled out the terms; I'm asking
         | if you might connect the dots between those terms and your
         | feelings about the whole thing.
         | 
         | Also, are you concerned that Diego Garcia might be a target in
         | a war?
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | What exactly is the Mauritian connection to the Chagos
         | Archipelago?
         | 
         | Is it just because a lot of Chagossians went to Mauritius after
         | getting kicked out? Obviously Mauritius and Chagos were ruled
         | by the same people previous (French, then British), but is
         | there a deeper history there?
         | 
         | I ask this because the Chagos archipelago is like 1500 miles
         | away from Mauritius - the Maldives, Seychelles, and even Sri
         | Lanka and India are all closer than that. And to my untrained
         | eye, the Chagos archipelago looks like an extension of whatever
         | process created the Maldives.
        
       | ThinkBeat wrote:
       | Yeah...
       | 
       | As long as the US and the UK is allowed to operate their military
       | bases and operations without any protest or quibble for the next
       | 100 years and probably more. Have some spare change instead of
       | too much sovereignty.
       | 
       | And remember the military bases are US and UK soil and whatever
       | goes on there can keep going on whatever laws may or may not be
       | passed.
       | 
       | Just like how the US maintains a military base, camp (now not
       | very busy at the moment) concentration camp in the communist
       | country of Cuba.
        
         | 10xalphadev wrote:
         | This. The US hegemon is everywhere it shouldn't be. And no one
         | stands up. Well, we'll see what happens after UA.
        
       | kibwen wrote:
       | _> There, the UK will ensure operation of the military base for
       | "an initial period" of 99 years._
       | 
       | Taking bets on how much surface area of this atoll will still be
       | above water in 2123.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing thread:
       | 
       |  _Ask HN: What happens to ".io" TLD after UK gives back the
       | Chagos Islands?_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41729526
       | - Oct 2024 (153 comments)
        
       | rich_sasha wrote:
       | I imagine whoever got the 99 year lease is feeling pretty pleased
       | about it - that's basically forever as far as they can tell.
       | 
       | On the other hand, I bet the UK in 1997 would have hoped for a
       | longer lease on Hong Kong.
        
         | khuey wrote:
         | Sea level rise may mean that a 99 year lease is longer than the
         | island will be habitable.
        
           | tightbookkeeper wrote:
           | I'll take that bet.
        
             | morkalork wrote:
             | You should move to Nantucket island then, lots of prime
             | real-estate there
        
               | itsoktocry wrote:
               | The real estate in Nantucket is extremely expensive, how
               | does this comment make sense?
        
           | thehappypm wrote:
           | Erm, even if the coast is flooded, Mauritius is a big island
           | with plenty of land well above sea level.
        
             | ojbyrne wrote:
             | The discussion is about Diego Garcia.
        
           | ethbr1 wrote:
           | Also decreased oil consumption as a result of renewable
           | energy sources (decreasing the Middle East's importance) and
           | climate change opening up northern shipping routes
           | (decreasing the SE Asia - Suez Canal importance).
           | 
           | In 99 years, being able to exert influence in the region will
           | likely be less important to global trade.
        
           | ta1243 wrote:
           | At what point does sea level rise remove a countries EEZ
           | claim.
           | 
           | Seems that it's a real issue --
           | https://www.reuters.com/investigations/sinking-tuvalu-
           | fights...
        
         | throwawaymaths wrote:
         | Probably not. In 1997 they were happy to court the $$
         | associated with opening up this huge new market of 1b+ "middle
         | class" consumers.
         | 
         | Id argue they still aren't sufficiently butthurt about it. The
         | UK has sufficient grounds to reclaim HK since china has very
         | much failed to uphold its agreement to keep hong kong
         | democratic for at least 50 years. I guess that's why the CPC
         | goes on gaslighting rants about "whole process democracy" like
         | Jesus CPC. You just had to wait 20 years, what the hell is the
         | rush?
        
           | shortrounddev2 wrote:
           | I think China is increasingly driven by the ego of Xi Jinping
           | and not the internal machinations of party politics.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | He is 71 and getting older.
             | 
             | A lot of crazy things look more reasonable when you've had
             | absolute power for a decade and aren't overly concerned
             | about consequences in 20 years.
        
               | dangus wrote:
               | I think it's a mistake to give in to the temptation to
               | jump to the conclusion that China is a tunnel-vision cult
               | of personality everything-the-crazy-dictator-wants-he-
               | gets government.
               | 
               | The Chinese government under Xi has a well-established
               | track record of long-term planning that has done nothing
               | but elevated China's status and leverage in the world.
               | 
               | It really couldn't be further from (e.g.) Putin's style
               | of governance.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | Even if they were legally entitled to reclaim it under law, I
           | don't see the British re-invading China at this point.
        
           | rich_sasha wrote:
           | One of the reasons UK didn't contest it in 1997 was that it
           | couldn't. UK "owned" Hong Kong island, which is a tiny bit of
           | territory. Most of what is called Hong Kong was actually
           | leased from China for a definite term, and the lease was
           | coming to an end, fair and square. Hong Kong island was
           | handed over as part of the package.
           | 
           | Hong Kong island is, I would imagine, in no way sustainable
           | as a standalone territory, if China were to be hostile.
        
           | epanchin wrote:
           | Based on the UKs failure to retake HK despite the broken
           | agreement, how long do you think that base will be there?
           | 
           | They could take it back whenever they wanted and we'd do
           | nothing.
        
           | dangus wrote:
           | In what universe does the UK have grounds to have anything to
           | do with governing a region 6000 miles away from home that it
           | seized during the Opium War?
           | 
           | I would love for China to have democracy, but Great Britain
           | really doesn't have any moral high ground on the issue nor
           | any business having anything to do with the government there.
           | 
           | If you think they aren't sufficiently butthurt about it, I'd
           | counter that by saying "what can they realistically do about
           | it?" The answer is "absolutely nothing." You want them to
           | invade or something?
           | 
           | They can write a nastygram or something but any of the
           | promises involved with the transfer really mean nothing. An
           | analogy would be asking the next owner of your car to not
           | play any Britney Spears on the radio. Good luck enforcing
           | that.
        
           | Barrin92 wrote:
           | >china has very much failed to uphold its agreement to keep
           | hong kong democratic
           | 
           | That would be a curious failure indeed given that Hong Kong
           | wasn't democratic under the British to begin with. It was a
           | crown colony ruled by an appointed governor. The Brits of
           | course never had any legitimate claim to an island they took
           | after a war whose objective was to force opium into China. If
           | they still have dreams of empire I'm sure China would be
           | delighted to see them try though and see how it goes this
           | time.
        
         | p_l wrote:
         | I've seen few mentions that PRC actually expected UK to extend
         | the lease, and was surprised when UK didn't...
        
         | jowea wrote:
         | Even if that lease was permanent I doubt the PRC would just let
         | it be. The time limit just meant they could just wait instead
         | of having to negotiate or invade.
        
         | trompetenaccoun wrote:
         | Hong Kong island was ceded to the British in perpetuity. The 99
         | years lease of the New Territories (not Hong Kong, technically)
         | was an additional unequal treaty that the Qing were forced into
         | on top of it, after they also had to give up Kowloon. The
         | British could have asked for 150 years too, who'd have stopped
         | them?
         | 
         | Now the same happens to Britain in reverse. There is no benefit
         | for any state to give up territory for nothing in return, why
         | would they be "pretty pleased" about it? Also not only is
         | Britain ceding its territory but they're actually paying rent
         | to keep a base on what was previously their own land! It almost
         | feels like China is involved in this because the number doesn't
         | sound like something Mauritius would come up with on their own.
         | See other 99 year leases the CCP is involved in, they're
         | obsessed with this number:
         | 
         | https://ceylontoday.lk/2023/08/31/over-1200-acres-of-sri-lan...
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/australia-says-no...
         | 
         | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/05/25/asia-pacific/ch...
        
       | saaaaaam wrote:
       | Worth reading Kevin Murphy's piece here:
       | 
       | https://domainincite.com/30395-future-of-io-domains-uncertai...
       | 
       | He's a long time commentator on the domain industry and very
       | inciteful. But also quite insightful.
        
       | Cyclone_ wrote:
       | I had never heard of it until now, but it looks similar to parts
       | of the Marshall Islands in that there are very narrow strips of
       | land.
        
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