[HN Gopher] American WWII bomb explodes at Japanese airport, cau...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       American WWII bomb explodes at Japanese airport, causing large
       crater in taxiway
        
       Author : impish9208
       Score  : 231 points
       Date   : 2024-10-02 15:22 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | tonymet wrote:
       | Similar to software, sometimes it's safer to leave the bombs
       | buried to avoid accidental detonation from attempted removal.
        
         | timr wrote:
         | This bomb was buried. Nobody knew it was there...which is sort
         | of crazy, considering that they built a runway over it and it
         | didn't detonate until now.
        
           | kjs3 wrote:
           | Some types of explosives (e.g. detonators) become more
           | unstable with age. See for example:
           | https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.231344
        
         | MichaelNolan wrote:
         | Do they (Japan, Germany) ever purposely leave unexploded
         | ordnance in place? I see a news story about once a year about
         | them finding a bomb, and in every case they have their bomb
         | squad disarm and remove it. I've never heard of them knowingly
         | leaving a bomb in place.
        
           | thyristan wrote:
           | I know of some remote1 forest in Germany that used to be a
           | training area. It is so bullet- and bomb-riddled that they
           | just decided clearing it wasn't worth it, put a fence around
           | it and declared it off-limits.
           | 
           | 1 in Germany, "remote" means something like "2km from the
           | next settlement".
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Same in some parts of France, from WW-I bombs that are
             | still there.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | Not just bombs but also lots of chemical warfare
               | pollution and buried canisters.
        
             | eep_social wrote:
             | Similar in France from WW1:
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_rouge
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | Once there's any sort of record that there's UXO somewhere it
           | pretty much has to be removed because nobody wants the
           | liability that would be incurred by being the party that
           | dropped the ball. Even if that wasn't the case they generally
           | get found because they're in the way of some construction.
           | You have to remove it for the same reason you have to get
           | every other rock out of the hole you're digging.
           | 
           | That said, I'm sure there's a few farmers who have a pretty
           | strong inkling where one is and are actively not looking to
           | disturb that problem.
        
           | HarryHirsch wrote:
           | _in every case they have their bomb squad disarm and remove
           | it_
           | 
           | They would do that, the pencil detonators the Allies used to
           | disrupt rescue and firefighting efforts after a carpet-
           | bombing run become ever more touchy as time wears on. A bomb
           | that is found is disarmed or exploded, else there will be a
           | repeat of this incident down the line.
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | This sunken ship in the Thames estuary is packed full of
           | explosives, and they don't dare mess with it:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery
        
             | ruined wrote:
             | oooo, free explosives!
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | Whoa!                 One of the reasons that the
             | explosives have not been removed was the unfortunate
             | outcome of a similar operation in July 1967, to neutralize
             | the contents of the Polish cargo ship Kielce, that sank in
             | 1946, off Folkestone in the English Channel. During
             | preliminary work, Kielce exploded with a force equivalent
             | to an earthquake measuring 4.5 on the Richter scale,
             | digging a 20-foot-deep (6 m) crater in the seabed and
             | bringing "panic and chaos" to Folkestone, although there
             | were no injuries.[5]: 2000 survey, p21-22  Kielce was at
             | least 3 or 4 miles (4.8 or 6.4 km) from land, had sunk in
             | deeper water than Richard Montgomery, and had "just a
             | fraction" of the load of explosives.[10] According to a BBC
             | News report in 1970,[12] it was determined that if the
             | wreck of Richard Montgomery exploded, it would throw a 300
             | metres (980 feet)-wide column of water and debris nearly
             | 3,000 metres (9,800 feet) into the air and generate a wave
             | 5 metres (16 feet) high. Almost every window in Sheerness
             | (population circa 20,000) would be broken and buildings
             | would be damaged by the blast.
        
               | bityard wrote:
               | That's amazing.
               | 
               | Very surprised I haven't heard of a movie involving this,
               | or a least a Doctor Who episode.
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | It's all over youtube, I've seen a number of recommended
               | videos about it
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Richard+Mont
               | gom...
               | 
               | Might just be my algorithm
        
               | mrguyorama wrote:
               | Tom Scott has covered this exact ship, many years ago
        
           | lostlogin wrote:
           | A load has been left in the Thames. The risk of accidental
           | detonation causing a tsunami is one factor.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Richard_Montgomery
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | And you only hear about the more problematic cases. Hundreds
           | or thousands of WW2 bombs get removed in Germany every year.
        
           | Kuinox wrote:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexploded_ordnance
        
           | aloer wrote:
           | I don't think so. Bombs are usually found during construction
           | so leaving them in place would not work if they block
           | progress on a hole/tunnel etc
           | 
           | For reference the state of NRW (Germany) alone found 2811
           | bombs in 2018 so it's much more common than you'd think.
           | 
           | Laws seem to differ by state but afaik new construction must
           | include some kind of bomb assessment, often done via aerial
           | photos to quickly filter out areas that were not bombed at
           | all
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | I'm not sure. What is to be gained over leaving a bomb buried,
         | if you know about it? Because then, it could go off at any time
         | versus doing a controlled detonation or remotely disarm it.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | It was probably buried during WWII where the concern was get
           | this airport working fast so it can be used and deal with the
           | consequences latter. Of course nobody bothered to write down
           | where hidden bombs are (that would take time they didn't
           | have) and so they couldn't deal with it latter.
        
         | FpUser wrote:
         | Under active runway, 1 meter deep, intentionally? That would be
         | the most moronic "safety measure" I can imagine.
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | Looking at the article, this was a WWII air base converted to
           | a civilian airport. The bomb was not paved over due to
           | laziness; _no one knew the bomb was there._
           | 
           | Hindsight being 20/20, maybe they (the Japanese) could have
           | used metal detectors when they were updating the runway? But,
           | given that they didn't find this, I suspect it wasn't
           | practical back then.
           | 
           | Perhaps now there will be an effort to use modern technology
           | to find these?
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | A bomb like this could be pretty deep though. They're
             | pretty aerodynamic and heavy yet compact. They'd go through
             | mud pretty easily. If it's a few metres deep I doubt it
             | would show up on a metal detector. This is why so many are
             | still found.
        
         | dvngnt_ wrote:
         | we have the machines to sacrifice now
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | Link to the video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9GDn-cl1og
        
         | globalise83 wrote:
         | That was pretty impressive! Thanks for finding it.
        
         | pimlottc wrote:
         | It's funny how often these videos are from a camera pointed at
         | a monitor, instead of a direct digital copy. I assume
         | extracting the actual file is logistically tricky due to both
         | technical and bureaucratic reasons.
        
           | denysvitali wrote:
           | This assumes that it's available in digital form. Knowing
           | Japan, there is a chance this is an analog CCTV
        
             | Wowfunhappy wrote:
             | Surely it would still be cleaner to digitize the tape (?)
             | than to point a camera at the screen, wouldn't it?
        
               | pistoleer wrote:
               | This was faster
        
           | accrual wrote:
           | Yeah, similar for interesting events caught on security
           | cameras. I assume these videos tend to come from the operator
           | who only has access to view but not to export. Plus, they'd
           | need to get the export into a phone-native format for upload
           | onto social media, so the uploader may need admin access,
           | familiarity with formats and/or ffmpeg, and a way to transfer
           | to a phone or personal PC.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | > _I assume these videos tend to come from the operator who
             | only has access to view but not to export._
             | 
             | This is why HDCP enforcement may be the dumbest legal-
             | technical mandate ever.
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-
             | bandwidth_Digital_Conte...
             | 
             | "Someone has a recording device they can point at a screen"
             | is a low bar.
        
               | mrandish wrote:
               | > This is why HDCP enforcement may be the dumbest legal-
               | technical mandate ever.
               | 
               | Indeed. Because of HDCP common use cases like splitting,
               | converting or sending a video signal are unsupported or
               | afterthoughts by most consumer devices, even when dealing
               | with non-protected signals. Of course, the HDCP flag can
               | be removed by some shady devices but these are not
               | commonly available and are often poorly documented.
        
               | tonyarkles wrote:
               | Heh, my wife and I were just talking about this the other
               | day. She does live audio production for work but
               | occasionally has to deal with video. Active HDMI
               | splitters are one of the few cases where cheaper is often
               | better because the cheap Chinese ones will usually do
               | HDCP stripping and something sane with the EDID data,
               | compared to more expensive ones that actually follow the
               | spec.
        
           | ortusdux wrote:
           | Are there any denoising algorithms that remove Moire
           | patterns? It would be a welcome addition to the stock iPhone
           | and Android cameras.
        
             | nihzm wrote:
             | If you don't need it to be perfect it is actually not too
             | difficult. A notch filter could be enough remove most of
             | the pattern provided that you have a good way of
             | guesstimating its frequency
        
               | bmicraft wrote:
               | Being very slightly out of focus would probably be the
               | best solution
        
               | ortusdux wrote:
               | It looks like Adobe Raw added a dedicated moire reduction
               | slider to their denoising features a few years back. I
               | wonder how it operates.
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | If its a DVR then one needs permission to download the video.
           | Many DVR's have access policies that can limit certain
           | users/groups to only view or playback disabling download.
           | Then if they do have download access they likely need access
           | to a USB port and have a USB drive handy as they likely have
           | to download the file from a web UI. Then they have to get
           | that video on to a PC or Phone/tablet and upload it.
           | 
           | Or just point the phone at the screen, record, click the
           | share button and select YouTube or whatever.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | The police have a never-ending issue with this when trying to
           | get video from random Temu-quality CCTV recorders at the
           | scene of a crime. I know one defendant who almost got away[1]
           | with a heinous robbery on a mobile phone store because the
           | technician from HQ remoted in to try and get the video off
           | and somehow deleted it instead.
           | 
           | [1] the store clerk later remembered the defendant had been
           | drinking a pop when he entered the store and they found the
           | bottle had been left behind, which had his DNA on it, and his
           | DNA was on file
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | The more upsetting part to me is that, with even a little bit
           | of effort, recording a screen with a camera produces a
           | perfectly acceptable image, other than some artifacts about
           | framerate not being synced.
           | 
           | This was true back in the CRT and cheap Sony camcorder days,
           | and it is even more true in the wide viewing angle, high
           | quality phone image sensor, and image stabilization days.
           | 
           | But nobody cares to take five extra seconds to get good
           | framing, or reduce glare, or hold their damn phone steady, or
           | _match the damn aspect ratio_!
           | 
           | It's infuriating how little people seem to care in general
        
             | fomine3 wrote:
             | It should be able to solved by auto situation recognition
             | on camera app.
        
       | bluetidepro wrote:
       | Slightly off topic but when I read the headline, I assumed "large
       | crater" would be much more large than you see in the picture. The
       | article reports "7 meters (23 feet) in diameter and 1 meter (3
       | feet) deep." For a bomb that doesn't seem that "large."
       | 
       | Luckily no one was hurt or nearby when it went off.
        
         | bradgessler wrote:
         | Agreed, seems very very small for 5000lb of explosives.
         | Guessing it didn't reach its full yield given that its been
         | buried under ground for decades.
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | If the crater is only 1 meter deep then the bomb was likely
           | more shallow than that (although some of the ejected dirt
           | will fall back into the crater). So much of the bomb's energy
           | went into the atmosphere.
        
           | Oarch wrote:
           | Article says 500lb.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | ~270lbs of explosives in a US 500lb bomb.
        
         | sholladay wrote:
         | It would have done considerably more damage if it had gone off
         | when and where it was intended. The runway is designed to have
         | enormous, heavy planes takeoff and land on it routinely, it
         | undoubtedly absorbed a lot of the bomb's energy. Not to mention
         | the earth underneath it.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | > It would have done...
           | 
           | Real WWII historians could probably determine the date on
           | which the bomb was dropped, its intended target, etc., etc.
           | 
           | But with the condition that most of Japan was in, later in
           | WWII - I'm thinking that "gone off where & when intended"
           | would probably have had little effect. Most of the country
           | was burned-out rubble.
        
         | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
         | Did historical bombs typically make big explosions? Reading
         | some numbers from the war, it seemed like the strategy was more
         | to dump enormous volume of ordinance and hope to get lucky
         | hitting something vital.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | That strategy was not because the bombs weren't very
           | destructive, but because they just could not be placed
           | accurately. So they had to drop a lot of bombs and hope a few
           | of them hit the strategically important targets.
        
           | skriticos2 wrote:
           | Yep. The US did drop around 160,800 tons of conventional
           | bombs on Japan during WWII, thought that's still relatively
           | tame compared to the 623,000 tons they drop on Germany.
           | Though the two nukes more than made up for it, I guess.
           | 
           | Bomb findings during construction is nothing especially rare
           | in these countries.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | So like, is "no unexploded ordinances detected" a
             | checkbox/service for those "call before you dig"
             | organizations in those places?
        
               | ornornor wrote:
               | In some parts of France, you can't dig without getting a
               | specialized surveyor inspection and certificate it's safe
               | to dig this deep in that place first.
        
             | eesmith wrote:
             | 'Between 1965 and 1975, the United States and its allies
             | dropped more than 7.5 million tons of bombs on Vietnam,
             | Laos, and Cambodia--double the amount dropped on Europe and
             | Asia during World War II.' - https://storymaps.arcgis.com/s
             | tories/2eae918ca40a4bd7a55390b...
        
             | pfdietz wrote:
             | The conventional bombing of Japan was scheduled for massive
             | increase. To quote Ian Toll's "Twilight of the Gods":
             | 
             | > If the war had lasted any longer than it did, the scale
             | and ferocity of the conventional bombing campaign would
             | have risen to inconceivable new heights. [...] At the
             | height of the bombing campaign, between May and August
             | 1945, a monthly average of 34,402 tons of high explosive
             | and incendiary bombs were dropped on Japan. According to
             | USAAF chief Hap Arnold, the monthly total would have
             | reached 100,000 tons in September 1945, and then risen
             | steadily month by month. By early 1946, if the Japanese
             | were still fighting, eighty USAAF combat groups would be
             | operating against Japan, a total of about 4,000 bombers. In
             | January 1946, they would drop 170,000 tons of bombs on
             | Japan, surpassing in one month the cumulative tonnage
             | actually dropped on the country during the entire Pacific
             | War. By March 1946, the anticipated date of the CORONET
             | landings on the Tokyo plain, the monthly bombing figure
             | would surpass 200,000 tons.
        
               | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
               | Professionals talk logistics indeed. To imagine what kind
               | is pipeline would be required to enable such a venture.
               | Producing, assembling, and shipping millions of tons of
               | explosives as a continual operation.
        
               | sundarurfriend wrote:
               | > The conventional bombing of Japan was scheduled for
               | massive increase.
               | 
               | Allegedly.
               | 
               | It's possible it's true, but claims like this have the
               | incentive of selling the "atom bombing Hiroshima and
               | Nagasaki was necessary and justified" narrative behind
               | them, so that should be taken into account as a factor.
               | 
               | It doesn't even have to be consciously disingenous - the
               | more one can convince oneself (and thus eventually
               | others) of how destructive and costly conventional
               | warfare would have been, the more digestible the nuclear
               | option becomes, so there's a lot of motivation to fuel
               | some motivated reasoning.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | There's no reason to doubt it. The resources that had
               | been devoted to Europe were freed up and now could be
               | fully focused on Japan.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | The US 500lb bombs had about 270lbs of explosives in them. If
         | this location were a WW-II airfield, it is the sort of bomb
         | that would have been dropped on airplanes on the ground to
         | destroy them.
         | 
         | Most of the damage to Japan's cities was actually done by
         | napalm-filled bomblets combined into cluster-bombs[1], partly
         | because weather made precision bombing difficult.
         | 
         | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M69_incendiary
        
           | rtkwe wrote:
           | Also Japanese construction was conveniently, for the US,
           | extremely flammable so you could do way more damage starting
           | a firestorm than you could with the same number of bombers
           | filled with traditional bombs.
           | 
           | There was also the incredible plan to fill a bomb with bats
           | strapped with tiny incendiary charges on timers so they would
           | be dropped, go roost somewhere, and hopefully start even
           | wider spread fires. They spent about 2 million dollars on it
           | before it was cancelled because the atomic bomb was showing
           | much better progress. They also accidentally proved it's
           | effectiveness and burned down part of the testing facility.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_bomb
        
             | HarryHirsch wrote:
             | It was the great success of the Allied firebombing campaign
             | that inflicted suburbia on the United States. US
             | construction is just as flammable but fire is less likely
             | to spread when the houses are farther apart.
             | 
             | (Let's rephrase the success part. The campaign was
             | destructive and deadly for the civilian population but did
             | nothing to end the war earlier. Bomber Harris and the Lord
             | Lindemann got a career boost, though.)
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | > but did nothing to end the war earlier
               | 
               | Really? To assert this, you need to show not that Axis
               | production didn't decline, but that the damage done
               | didn't prevent production from increasing even more. How
               | does one show that?
        
               | greiskul wrote:
               | Here is a good critique of the concept of strategic
               | airpower: https://acoup.blog/2022/10/21/collections-
               | strategic-airpower...
               | 
               | Axis production continued increasing, according to this,
               | it tripled after the bombing campaign started.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Which, of course, proves nothing. What matters is how
               | much it would have increased without the bombing.
               | 
               | Actually, it's even worse than that, since one must also
               | subtract from this production the resources Germany was
               | putting into air defense. This effort was massive.
        
               | shmeeed wrote:
               | Did you read the ACOUP article? I remember reading it
               | when it was published, and it changed my mind on the
               | topic.
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | You are completely ignoring Japanese mindset during that
               | time. Absolute devotion to emperor, casualties could be
               | in millions and that wouldn't change anything. Their
               | suicidal charges and not giving up alive are pretty
               | famous and this comes from certain place, same as
               | kamikadze. Some rational counting of outputs may be for
               | bureaucrats but those were not holding any real power in
               | Japan empire.
               | 
               | There is a lot of speculation why emperor and generals
               | surrendered, even atomic bombs may not have been the
               | triggering point as much as soviet declaration of war to
               | Japan at 8 August 1945. Most probably it all compounded.
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | There are many contemporary sources on the Japanese side
               | that suggest the firebombings did hasten the (inevitable
               | at this point) surrender. The US certainly had a
               | strategic desire for Japan to surrender to the US rather
               | than the USSR.
        
               | rtkwe wrote:
               | Yeah it turns out the whole idea of morale bombing is
               | pretty flawed, it largely just galvanizes the population
               | it turns out; Japan, England and Germany all reacted
               | similarly, maybe for different cultural reasons but it
               | was ineffective everywhere.
        
               | justin66 wrote:
               | > It was the great success of the Allied firebombing
               | campaign that inflicted suburbia on the United States.
               | 
               | BS
        
             | pnw wrote:
             | Similarly, the Japanese launched over 9000 incendiary
             | balloon bombs against the US & Canada, but they were
             | generally ineffective. Six civilians were killed in Oregon
             | in 1945.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb
        
               | rtkwe wrote:
               | Yeah one of the few instances of damage on the US side of
               | the world from WW2 and it barely did anything. The US was
               | incredibly fortunate to not have to fight basically any
               | of the war on the home front. We rode that wave for a
               | couple decades as Europe and Japan etc rebuilt.
        
         | riffic wrote:
         | a large crater the size of a small crater.
         | 
         | the reference: https://time.com/5772944/large-small-boulder/
        
         | MengerSponge wrote:
         | That's a _lot_ of earth though. Most bombs detonate above the
         | ground because rock is really heavy.
        
         | cynicalpeace wrote:
         | Watch the video- it was a large bomb
        
         | WorkerBee28474 wrote:
         | A crater that size can hold 80,000lb of dirt.
        
         | marshray wrote:
         | Apparently it was sized appropriately to shut down the airport.
         | 
         | A larger probability of a small crater(s) requiring repair
         | would seem better for this purpose than a smaller probability
         | of a large crater.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | that's a little bigger than my old apartment. i think it
         | doesn't look big in the picture because nothing is visible
         | nearby to give it scale
        
       | ImJamal wrote:
       | > Officials said an investigation by the Self-Defense Forces and
       | police confirmed that the explosion was caused by a 500-pound US
       | bomb
       | 
       | The article was a bit lacking. How do they know that it was a 500
       | pound bomb from WW2? Is it the shrapnel or is there a different
       | way to determine it?
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | Likely because no one's dropped bombs on Japan since then
        
           | ImJamal wrote:
           | Somebody could have planted a bomb (if it was actually a WW2
           | bomb that doesn't seem likely) or it could have fallen off a
           | plane before (not sure if there 500 pound bombs before the
           | war?) or after the war.
        
             | kayodelycaon wrote:
             | That absolutely can be a WWII bomb. They are still finding
             | unexploded artillery shells from the first world war in
             | France!
             | 
             | Let me repeat that, hundred-year-old shells are still
             | underground, intact, and the explosives in them are just as
             | powerful as when they were manufactured.
             | 
             | Chemicals in fuse can slowly combine until they detonate.
             | 
             | The odds of someone planting more explosives in a field
             | potentially containing a dozen WWII bombs from multiple
             | attacks are remote.
        
               | ImJamal wrote:
               | You are not addressing anything of my question. I don't
               | care if 99.9999999% of bombs that go off are from WW2.
               | Not every bomb that goes off is from WW2. How did they
               | determine if this bomb was actually from WW2? Is it just
               | an assumption or did they check something? The article
               | did not clarify that point and just stated it as a fact.
        
               | AStonesThrow wrote:
               | Forensics identified a valid digital certificate matching
               | ww2.co.jp. The issuing CA is currently denying
               | responsibility.
        
               | wkat4242 wrote:
               | It's pretty easy to identify from the shrapnel.
        
               | ImJamal wrote:
               | I understand that it is easy, but is this what they did?
               | That was my whole question and nobody is actually
               | answering my question
        
               | scanny wrote:
               | Usually shrapnel, working out the depth at which it
               | exploded, the nature of the explosion (recorded on
               | video), and historical evidence of bombing.
               | 
               | There is a buch of forensic methods around this.
        
               | ImJamal wrote:
               | I understand that is what is usually used, but I was
               | asking for the actual details which was scanty in the
               | article. Is this what they did or are they still looking
               | into the forensics?
        
               | shmeeed wrote:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_test
        
             | wkat4242 wrote:
             | Planting a bomb especially of that size (needing a vehicle
             | and multiple men to move) in the ground under a paved
             | taxiway at a major airport without anyone noticing? Not
             | very likely.
             | 
             | The WWII explanation is much more plausible. It happens at
             | Schiphol too that they find them (luckily not by them
             | exploding randomly but usually during construction efforts)
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Thousands of tons of bombs were dropped on Japan in WW2. Many
         | of them didn't explode. This airport was apparently an active
         | airfield at the time the US was bombing Japan and 500lb bombs
         | were the sort of thing used to destroy parked planes.
         | 
         | Yes, someone could have snuck into an airport and buried a bomb
         | underneath the runway, then cleaned up the digging operation so
         | as to not be noticed, but horses, not zebras.
        
           | ImJamal wrote:
           | If it wasn't from the war, then the more likely scenario is
           | the bomb feel off a plane after the war than somebody snuck
           | into the airfield. Bombs do fall off planes.
           | 
           | My question was more of, how do they determine this sort of
           | thing or is it just an assumption because it is the most
           | likely scenario?
        
             | kayodelycaon wrote:
             | You're assuming the bombs like this were removed after the
             | war. They weren't. No one knew they were there.
             | 
             | We are still finding unexploded artillery shells from the
             | first world war in France. Germans are still finding bombs
             | in cities.
             | 
             | The chemicals in the fuses mix and become unstable over
             | time. The explosives don't degrade as much.
             | 
             | If you wanted further verification, the bomb casing leaves
             | fragments and explosives leave residue.
        
               | ImJamal wrote:
               | I'm not doing anything of the sort. I know bombs are
               | still there from WW2. Just because there are still bombs
               | from WW2 does not mean that every bomb that goes off is
               | from WW2. While it is likely that the bomb is from the
               | war, I haven't seen what evidence they have confirming
               | that. That is all I am asking for.
        
               | kingaillas wrote:
               | The evidence is likely simple deduction, as in asking
               | "when was the last time this area was bombed" combined
               | with the history of the airport (built for the military
               | in 1943, later converted to civilian use) and also noting
               | other unexploded bombs have been unearthed in the area.
               | 
               | For it NOT to be a WW2 bomb would mean somebody sneaking
               | in another bomb and paving it under the runway without
               | being noticed.
        
               | ImJamal wrote:
               | There is a perfectly plausible alternative. A bomb fell
               | off a plane after the war. This happens from time to time
               | and has even happened with a nuclear bomb!
        
               | kayodelycaon wrote:
               | Sorry about that. The article obviously doesn't explain.
               | Here's my thoughts on it.
               | 
               | I don't think they did any exhaustive research. They
               | didn't have to.
               | 
               | You would be able to look at the crater and see sizable
               | pieces of a military air-dropped bomb. Normal bombs don't
               | disintegrate. If they send it to a lab they can tell what
               | explosive was used in it, which will roughly tell you
               | when it was manufactured. (Assuming they don't find a
               | serial number.)
               | 
               | That by itself is hardly conclusive, but that completely
               | changes when you find identical unexploded bombs buried
               | in the same area.
               | 
               | It would be rather odd if somebody came along later and
               | put the same kind of bomb used in WWII in the ground.
               | When the bomb got there isn't that important.
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | They're just asking on what basis the article is confident
           | that it's a specific bomb from a specific era. Is it based on
           | a forensic analysis of the shrapnel, something like that? If
           | it's just an assumption based on the context, you'd want to
           | say "an explosion, believed to have been caused by an
           | unexploded WWII-era bomb...".
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | In how many eras were bombs being dropped on this airport?
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | When I read the headline, I was wondering why in the world a bomb
       | was being taxied on a runway, like on a cargo plane. However, now
       | I'm wondering how a bomb wasn't discovered when the airport was
       | built. From the video posted elsewhere in the comments, it looks
       | like the bomb was buried under the runway. Are there no ground
       | surveys done with radar before building a plane runway?
        
         | opencl wrote:
         | The airport was built in 1943.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Ah, I guess that makes sense. According to a quick search, it
           | seems ground-penetrating radar didn't reach common use until
           | the 70s.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | I haven't fact-checked anything about this, but this bomb (and
         | its friends) were probably dropped here because it was an
         | active military airport during WW2 and the US was desperate to
         | put a dent in Japan's air power. After the war, thorough
         | ordinance disposal was very likely a secondary consideration
         | rebuilding the country. (And its runways.)
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | I'm always a little surprised to realize that the explosives are
       | chemically stable enough to still explode nearly 100 years later.
        
         | jowdones wrote:
         | Lots of unexploded ordnance. Reminds me of the story of the guy
         | who tried to weld an artillery shell (and blew up), he was sure
         | it's safe coze his father used it for 40 years as a gardening
         | tool:
         | 
         | https://stirileprotv.ro/stiri/eveniment/accident-stupid-a-mu...
        
         | smiley1437 wrote:
         | Over time, the explosive chemicals in the both the detonator
         | and the main charge can frequently get MORE sensitive to
         | disturbance, which is kind of perverse.
         | 
         | That's why if you ever come across any old UXO (UneXploded
         | Ordnance) you should call the bomb squad and never touch it
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | This. Though I would not call explosives "chemically stable",
           | nor their degrading with time "perverse".
           | 
           | They are capable of energetically exploding because they are
           | _not_ chemically stable.
           | 
           | And "shelf-stable and safe for many decades" is _never_ a
           | priority feature for high-volume wartime production of
           | explosives.
        
             | genocidicbunny wrote:
             | > And "shelf-stable and safe for many decades" is never a
             | priority feature for high-volume wartime production of
             | explosives.
             | 
             | Maybe not on the order of decades, but 'shelf-stable and
             | safe for handling' is a definite concern in any ordnance
             | production. Last thing you want is your whole ammo
             | stockpile blowing up because a tired soldier set an
             | artillery shell down a little too hard.
             | 
             | Many of the explosives used are actually fairly stable
             | chemically and require either severe degradation to become
             | unstable, or an external force applied to them that is
             | sufficient to trigger their explosive effects. C4, as long
             | as it hasn't been sitting around too long, is pretty safe
             | to light on fire. And yet it's one of the more energetic
             | commonly used explosives out there.
        
             | tetha wrote:
             | Mh, chemical stability is usually meant in a more delicate
             | way.
             | 
             | There are explosives that need other explosives to set them
             | off. If someone gave you a pound of C4 and then evacuated
             | your neighbors, you would probably need to do some research
             | to set it off. With the amount of explosives moved around
             | in the world wars, easy storage and fairly safe logistics
             | even by minimally trained soldiers are very much a
             | priority.
             | 
             | On the flipside, there are explosives which won't let you
             | finish a sneeze in the same room. Or which decompose into
             | the latter. You wouldn't want to move thousands of tons of
             | these around.
        
               | shmeeed wrote:
               | Re: your last paragraph called to my mind the great
               | french thriller "The Wages of Fear" from 1953, in which
               | two trucks loaded with nitroglycerin need to cross rough
               | terrain, and the viewer finds himself holding his breath
               | quite a lot...
        
             | slyall wrote:
             | > And "shelf-stable and safe for many decades" is never a
             | priority feature for high-volume wartime production of
             | explosives.
             | 
             | The problem is that those minitions do get used many years
             | later. Often because after a war ends there is a huge
             | surplus of munitions you want to save till the next war.
             | 
             | Russia is using decade-old shells in Ukraine for instance.
             | 
             | The USS Forrestal fire was partially caused by 14 year old
             | bombs that had been improperly stored.
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire
        
           | retrac wrote:
           | Even if it's inert many explosives decompose into toxic
           | compounds. Other explosives use mercury compounds for
           | detonators, which at the worst can make the soil itself toxic
           | to the touch. There are also gas shells, some of which had
           | arsenic. Areas affected in that way will be poisonous for a
           | very long time.
        
           | ckozlowski wrote:
           | There was a great discussion I read here a year ago from a
           | chemist who went into the details on why this occurs. I'll
           | link the comment. Really great read.
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34755399
        
             | smiley1437 wrote:
             | thanks for the link! A great read as promised
        
         | jdietrich wrote:
         | Hundreds of tonnes of unexploded ordnance from the First World
         | War are collected every year in Belgium and Northern France.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest
        
           | julienchastang wrote:
           | > Since 1946, approximately 630 French ordnance disposal
           | workers have died handling unexploded munitions.
           | 
           | Incredible.
        
             | kibwen wrote:
             | It would be interesting to see a graph over time, because
             | presumably the vast majority of those happened in the
             | immediate years following the war. That Wikipedia link
             | mentions two deaths in 2014, which may be the most recent
             | fatalities.
        
             | svieira wrote:
             | I can recommend a lovely short video in French documenting
             | the work that I recently watched: _Meet the team still
             | cleaning up after World War I | Zone Rouge_
             | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB-Ncob1gDk)
        
             | tetha wrote:
             | I still have some german documentary about a man defusing
             | these things burned into my head. He was asked why he
             | wasn't wearing any safety equipment while working on these
             | large bombs.
             | 
             | Well for smaller amounts of explosive chemicals, they'd
             | wear the blast suit, because it could save them and might
             | keep them a bit presentable otherwise. That'd be nice for
             | the family. If the bomb is several times heavier than you
             | are though, they'd just do the job right and go home after
             | - and no one needs safety equipment on a job done right.
        
               | xenadu02 wrote:
               | More specifically such large bombs will kill you with the
               | pressure wave if nothing else. They are not survivable.
               | Either you diffuse them successfully or you die.
        
               | Xylakant wrote:
               | The way they figured out how to defuse the bombs was
               | pretty rough, too. The person that did the defusal would
               | call out what they were about to do next to a person
               | taking notes at a safe distance. If the bomb exploded,
               | they knew not to do that again.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | Here's one in Oxfordshire 4 days ago, although I'm a little
           | confused how a First World War bomb got all the way there.
           | Dropped from a Zeppelin? (It's also sadly possible that the
           | news reporter got the wrong war.)
           | 
           | https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2024-09-28/bomb-
           | disposal-t...
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | Probably. The village I lived in wasn't as far over as
             | Oxfordshire, but had a zeppelin raid: https://guildford-
             | dragon.com/terror-zeppelin-raid-on-guildfo...
        
         | SapporoChris wrote:
         | "We seem to have a compulsion these days to bury time capsules
         | in order to give those people living in the next century or so
         | some idea of what we are like. I have prepared one of my own. I
         | have placed some rather large samples of dynamite, gunpowder,
         | and nitroglycerin. My time capsule is set to go off in the year
         | 3000. It will show them what we are really like." -- Alfred
         | Hitchcock
        
           | arduanika wrote:
           | That is an excellent quote, thanks for sharing it. But I'm
           | not sure why he told us the exact date of detonation. Wasn't
           | he supposed to be the master of suspense?
        
             | jandrese wrote:
             | He didn't tell you the location, that's the suspense.
        
             | rincebrain wrote:
             | The date of intended detonation is very much not going to
             | be the actual date anything explodes with how stable our
             | bomb chemistry is over long intervals.
        
             | adrianmonk wrote:
             | For the joke to work, the listener needs to picture a
             | highly advanced, evolved civilization far in the future.
             | Saying a big number gives the imagination a concrete
             | starting point. Like a writing prompt.
             | 
             | Plus, while Hitchcock is the master of suspense, he is also
             | known for comedy: https://medium.com/life-and-the-
             | performing-arts/humor-hitchc...
        
             | booleandilemma wrote:
             | Well the year 3000 is 365 days long, so plenty of room for
             | suspense.
        
       | jrnichols wrote:
       | We have a bunch of those here in our area still from a train
       | accident in 1973.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Roseville_Yard_Disaster
       | 
       | It's believed that many of them are still buried and likely under
       | homes & businesses. We just assisted detonating one of the mark
       | 81s last week.
        
         | ccorcos wrote:
         | Whoa, that's really close to where I live. I'm in Roseville
         | right now, actually. Can you tell me more? Where was this mark
         | 81 last week? Do you work at McClellan?
        
         | creeble wrote:
         | Good short video about the Roseville yard explosion by
         | Fascinating Horror:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/fyzw-1yuUB0
        
       | AStonesThrow wrote:
       | Headline says "taxiway" and the crater is located on the edge,
       | but runway 9/27 markings are very close by. Aircraft should not
       | be at speed, departing or landing on a taxiway. "Taxi" is how
       | they go between gate and runway at low speed.
        
       | hilux wrote:
       | It's not the same thing at all, but if you enjoy reading about
       | "abandoned military hardware," you'll love this:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Belgium_MiG-23_crash
        
         | jackdh wrote:
         | Ha, that is definitely not type of abandoned that I was
         | expecting. That poor chap who was killed, what an incredibly
         | unlucky event for him.
        
           | hilux wrote:
           | Can you imagine the odds? Literally ... any of us could go,
           | at any time. That's what gets me whenever I think about this.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Ca plane pour moi
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | I have an irrational fear of dying from an airplane crashing
         | into me. It doesn't help that friends of friends of mine were
         | victims in this from just a few weeks ago:
         | 
         | https://www.opb.org/article/2024/09/03/fairview-plane-crash-...
        
           | karlzt wrote:
           | >> I have an irrational fear of dying from an airplane
           | crashing into me.
           | 
           | I don't, but sometimes I have dreams like that, whether it's
           | an aeroplane or a helicopter or whatever.
        
             | ccozan wrote:
             | I live near am airfield and just recently I asked my
             | assurance company if they would assure agains airplane
             | crash which they indeed do!
             | 
             | But alas, if it crashes while inside, it does not really
             | matter...
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | I think I know the feeling. I had these nightmares as a kid
           | about wolfes or 'cartoon heatseeking missiles' hunting me,
           | like it was the same nightmare/feeling.
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | Didn't that happen in DC recently? Remember that US military
         | plane that went missing and was found many kms away from where
         | the pilot ejected?
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | The first time I ever went to Munich there was a bomb that had
       | been discovered from WW2 under one of the buildings during a
       | renovation and they had to do a controlled detonation. Despite
       | their efforts there was visible damage everywhere, broken glass,
       | etc. I feel terrible for Ukraine, Gaza and others, have
       | unexploded ordinances that (probably more so in Ukraine than
       | Gaza, just given scale/age of munitions) will be there for
       | generations.
       | 
       | https://www.munichre.com/en/insights/infrastructure/munich-b...
        
         | bluGill wrote:
         | Modern bombs tend to be more reliable about exploding when we
         | want them to, and we now have some bombs that if they don't
         | explode will degrade. So not quite as bad as you would guess.
         | However still going to be a big problem for decades.
        
         | ttepasse wrote:
         | That must have been this one:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O0lO_j6Ngc
         | 
         | In a way I think Ukraine has a somewhat better handle on big
         | unexploded munitions from ballistic or cruise missiles and
         | drones: They have an active air defense and the big stuff can
         | be followed on radar - so they know the possible point of
         | impact and EOD teams know where to look.
         | 
         | I worry more about unexploded cluster munitions and small
         | mines. Some of the latter look like something I'd definitely
         | had picked up as a child just for curiosity.
        
       | 1317 wrote:
       | already back open -
       | https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20241002_20/
        
         | sib wrote:
         | Which was also the common story when WWII Pacific theater
         | airfields were cratered by bombing. It took very little time to
         | re-open.
        
       | onemoresoop wrote:
       | Its surprising to me that bombs explode after being buried for
       | such a long time. The chemicals remain contained but I imagined
       | the fuse would rust away.
        
         | indrora wrote:
         | The irony here is that nuclear weapons are actually safer to
         | have lying around than conventional weapons; The amount of work
         | that it takes to actually arm and activate a warhead is higher
         | and you get basically one chance to get it right or it locks
         | you out and self-defeats.
         | 
         | For anyone who is curious, there's a wonderful short video on
         | PALs and how they isolate a nuclear warhead from the outside
         | world: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1LPmAF2eNA
        
           | fluoridation wrote:
           | Everyone knows about PALs. You have to warm them up in the
           | steel mill and then cool them down in the freezer room.
        
           | talldayo wrote:
           | However, that does not stop adversaries with physical access
           | from dismantling the warhead and extracting the enriched
           | fissile material. In a practical sense, easily obtained
           | nuclear weapons are probably more dangerous than TNT UXO, or
           | at least possess the potential to be used for greater harm.
        
           | babypuncher wrote:
           | Nukes are also not very stable long-term Their fissile
           | payload is radioactive after all, and as it decays it becomes
           | harder and harder to achieve prompt criticality.
        
         | colechristensen wrote:
         | It can be caused by the explosives degrading over decades into
         | much more unstable compounds which begin the explosive reaction
         | and detonate the rest. In other words degrading into a new sort
         | of fuse which spontaneously triggers.
        
       | louthy wrote:
       | London fairly regularly has WWII unexploded bombs to deal with.
       | When you look at all the bombs dropped [1] on the city, it's
       | hardly surprising!
       | 
       | [1] http://bombsight.org/#13/51.5008/-0.0536
        
         | Dansvidania wrote:
         | this is mind-boggling. I struggle to imagine how the city must
         | have looked.
        
           | hedgehog wrote:
           | There are a lot of photos, really bad. You'd think people
           | would have learned but in current events Gaza has had 4x the
           | ordnance dropped on it (in about 1/5 the land area).
           | 
           | Edit: The easiest way I found to see photos and video is in
           | Getty's archive: https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?f
           | amily=editorial&...
        
           | pmalynin wrote:
           | You don't have to struggle. There are plenty of videos and
           | photos of that time that you can check out. Also if you visit
           | London you can go around and see a bunch of buildings they
           | haven't rebuilt and just left them in semi destroyed state as
           | monuments
        
             | Dansvidania wrote:
             | I have been in London a few times but never noticed.
        
             | mattlondon wrote:
             | What? Where are these semi-destroyed buildings left as
             | monuments? I am not aware of any in London.
        
               | buildsjets wrote:
               | Mostly churches, it seems.
               | 
               | https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-ruins-of-st-
               | dunstan-...
               | 
               | https://flickeringlamps.com/2015/03/06/the-ruins-of-
               | christ-c...
               | 
               | https://beyondthepoint.co.uk/st-clements-church-blitz-
               | damage...
        
             | louthy wrote:
             | > Also if you visit London you can go around and see a
             | bunch of buildings they haven't rebuilt and just left them
             | in semi destroyed state as monuments
             | 
             | I lived in London for 20 years and never knew or saw
             | anything like that?
             | 
             | The main thing you notice when you walk around London is
             | the old/new mix. If you see a concrete monstrosity, nestled
             | next to a Victorian/Edwardian/Elizabethan building, you're
             | probably guaranteed that the newer building was built on
             | top of a bomb site.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I can't imagine the record keeping to provide the data for
           | this. And of course, they have weasel words at the bottom:
           | "The National Archives give no warranty to the accuracy,
           | completeness or fitness for purpose of the information
           | provided"
        
             | louthy wrote:
             | In other words: "if you get blown up by a bomb that we
             | haven't listed here, it's not our fault!"
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | My mum and dad were teenagers during the war and did fire-
           | watching, notoriously avoided if at all possible (they said)
           | so given to anyone biddable or old. It got a bit hair-raising
           | according to my dad, he stood in a doorway near Imperial
           | College watching a plate glass sheet decide if it was going
           | to fall on him or into the building. Walking through labs
           | with bombs dropping was .. intense.
           | 
           | If you had an "anderson shelter" in your garden you were
           | lucky. Many poor working class families got a "morrison
           | shelter" which was basically a steel table you could use in a
           | dining room or kitchen and then hide under. In some ways more
           | convenient I guess? (Anderson shelters got cold and damp)
           | 
           | He was bombed out of a house in Stepney. They lost
           | everything. I can't decide if he missed more the entire
           | collection of the first 50 penguin books, or a lump of melted
           | glass he scavanged from the fire of crystal palace in the
           | 1930s: these are the two things he remembered in the 60s and
           | 70s talking about it.
           | 
           | He was studying electrical engineering and maths at
           | university by the end of the war and so not called up. He
           | said they trained in how to manage live power cables with
           | wooden "tongs" and were part of rescue crews when buildings
           | collapsed. My mum was tracing maps for D-Day, and packing
           | munitions and my Aunt did technical drawing on the "mulberry
           | harbour" concrete caissons floated over to the beaches for
           | D-Day.
           | 
           | A good read on the blitz would be "the people's war" by Angus
           | Calder, which in large part is made up from "mass
           | observation" recruited/organised diaries kept during the
           | period, and donated to the University of Sussex. My mum kept
           | one of them.
           | 
           | A standing joke in Architecture circles is that the greater
           | london council destroyed more Wren churches in London than
           | the Blitz. UCL used to say the basements where compsci was
           | sited were kindly dug by the Germans.
           | 
           | Postwar housing was a mess. My aunt lived in a 5 story block
           | of flats in Paddington she got on a long lease as bomb
           | damaged property, my Uncle bought into commercial premises
           | around Farringdon in a deal which demanded he do structural
           | repairs immediately. There was a huge housing shortage and
           | for years you could still see the pre-fabricated houses
           | around Lambeth Palace which were a godsend of temporary
           | housing but persisted into the 60s. Stepney where my dad grew
           | up was a wreck, anywhere around the docks basically. It was a
           | patchwork.
           | 
           | The pseudo-documentary film "Fires were started" by Humphrey
           | Jennings has some iconic footage of the dock firestorm (not
           | to be compared with Dresden, but it was severe) You would
           | recognise the shots of the fronts of builings collapsing and
           | firemen holding hoses wearing brodie helmets.
           | 
           | Comparisons are evil. Coventry was really badly affected and
           | the modern day cathedral stands next to the wreck of the
           | original gothic one. It's like the Kaiser Wilheim spire in
           | Kurfurstendamm in Berlin, a very pale shadow of the reality
           | at the time. Berlin, Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne, Rotterdam
           | were all significantly worse affected than London in the end,
           | but to anyone in London I doubt it felt like it. The bombing
           | in Japan was on an altogether different scale.
        
           | virtue3 wrote:
           | Prague is a really good example of a major European city that
           | was relatively untouched in the war. And it shows. Lots and
           | LOTS of historical buildings and a very "old European" feel
           | through a lot of the city.
           | 
           | It's quite beautiful.
        
         | asyx wrote:
         | Same in Germany. Happened fairly regularly when I had to come
         | to the office every day that a road was blocked because they
         | found a WW2 bomb when they dug new underground parking garages.
         | 
         | Guess bombing civilians wasn't a good idea. Sorry about that
        
           | louthy wrote:
           | > Sorry about that
           | 
           | Right back atcha. Let's learn from this and stay friends!
        
           | generic92034 wrote:
           | > Guess bombing civilians wasn't a good idea.
           | 
           | Alas, this has never stopped to be part of warfare. When was
           | the last war where bombing civilians (intentionally or as
           | "collateral damage") was not happening?
        
         | ddejohn wrote:
         | I always like to share this [1] article about a UXO team
         | working in La Zone Rouge. These are UXO from WWI. It's pretty
         | haunting.
         | 
         | [1] https://orionmagazine.org/article/the-forbidden-forest/
        
       | karlzt wrote:
       | In Germany, unexploded bombs are discovered on a weekly basis.
        
         | Clubber wrote:
         | Verdun, France too, though I don't think they build an airstrip
         | on top of one.
        
           | rtkwe wrote:
           | Odds are the airport is on the same land an old Imperial
           | Japanese airfield was on.
        
             | JoeAltmaier wrote:
             | Yes the article supports that.
        
         | sjm wrote:
         | In Cambodia too, where the US dropped 540,000 tons of bombs
         | during the Vietnam war.
        
         | junga wrote:
         | When I was in elementary school in Lower Saxony I ,,often"
         | couldn't go home after school because there was some defusion
         | of WW2 bombs in my area going on. ,,Often" means something like
         | 10 times in 4 years. Was quite used to this and didn't think
         | much about it back then. Now that I have kids myself I would be
         | glad to know that they won't have to deal with the fails of my
         | generation. But the older I get, the less confident I am.
        
       | jajko wrote:
       | Slightly off topic - if you want to see how explosion looks like
       | in vacuum, here is recent (less than 1 day old) Iranian ICBM
       | interception (either by Israeli Arrow 2/3 or Patriot) in cca
       | outer space [1] or direct video link [2]. Expanse wasn't so far
       | off
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1fu1bc1/iran...
       | 
       | [2] https://packaged-
       | media.redd.it/1p1ueyie38sd1/pb/m2-res_848p....
        
         | genezeta wrote:
         | For those without a reddit account:
         | https://old.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1fu1bc1/iran...
        
       | beloch wrote:
       | It would be great to think that littering the countryside with
       | unexploded ordinance was a thing of the past and we no longer do
       | such things, but the conflict in Ukraine is just one example to
       | the contrary.
       | 
       | Has any effort been put into making duds easier to find after the
       | fact? e.g. Has anyone thought of putting something like an
       | upscaled RECCO reflector on bombs? i.e. A passive radar reflector
       | that would allow searchers to just hit a field with radar and get
       | reflections back from unexploded ordinance.
       | 
       | Obviously, this wouldn't work for cruise missiles, etc. that need
       | to have a low radar profile while in flight, but why not for
       | bombs ( _especially_ cluster munitions) that are used in _much_
       | greater numbers?
       | 
       | This is just one idea. I'm sure other methods could be used to
       | make duds easier to find. Is there military value in leaving
       | stealthy duds in your enemy's territory?
        
         | btbuildem wrote:
         | > Is there military value in leaving stealthy duds in your
         | enemy's territory?
         | 
         | In all fairness -- probably, yes. It's the enemy's territory,
         | and now you've made it more deadly, like an accidental
         | minefield.
         | 
         | But I don't think any consideration is given to what happens to
         | duds, what are the civilian consequences or environmental
         | impacts of any part of the weapons lifecycles. It is an
         | industry of death and destruction after all.
        
           | ckozlowski wrote:
           | It'd likely to be more accurate to say that some are left
           | that simply don't explode yet. A good example would be
           | certain cases of cluster munitions that are designed to hit
           | airfields. A most of the explosives will go off and crater
           | the concrete and asphalt, but others will remain unexploded
           | and sensitive to detonation. As runway repair work cannot
           | commence until those unexploded munitions are cleared, the
           | airfield is out of action longer than it would be otherwise.
           | 
           | I understand in these cases and other ones such as scattering
           | mines that a timer can be set so the mine or munition
           | deactivates after a set time (say, a week) by deactivating
           | the fuse.
           | 
           | Not all are designed in this way of course. And apologies,
           | I'm looking for source links, but I can't find them at the
           | moment. Edit: Here's an example
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GATOR_mine_system
        
           | mrguyorama wrote:
           | >But I don't think any consideration is given to what happens
           | to duds
           | 
           | On the contrary. Duds causing UXO is the reason the US and
           | most of NATO chooses not to build cluster munitions anymore,
           | preferring instead pre-formed tungsten balls that are fired
           | like a shotgun when the munition is over it's target.
           | 
           | The dud rate was something like _2%_ , not that much but
           | enough to make the US decide that leaving tens of thousands
           | of UXOs in formerly enemy territory isn't okay.
           | 
           | Russian cluster munitions being used in Ukraine right now
           | have a much much higher dud rate, and that's before any bad
           | storage or handling.
           | 
           | For similar reasons, many NATO countries have given up types
           | of landmines
        
             | ls612 wrote:
             | Modern US munitions have a mechanism that bricks the
             | warhead after a certain amount of time from being fired
             | (years). That way they retain use on the battlefield as a
             | threat to enemy soldiers even if they don't properly
             | detonate but will not pose a long term risk to civilians.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | Radar is sometimes used for detecting incoming artillery
         | rounds, so yeah, no need to make it easy for the enemy by
         | filling it with radar reflectors.
        
           | ianburrell wrote:
           | I wonder if you could put the radar reflector on the end of
           | the shell or bomb. It would only be visible from behind which
           | is only possible when in ground.
           | 
           | The other way would be have fuse that shows reflector after
           | hitting something but not detonating.
        
         | 1659447091 wrote:
         | Duct tape an AirTag on'em.
         | 
         | I'm only half joking. "not even Apple knows the location of
         | your AirTag"
        
         | jopsen wrote:
         | I think it'd be pretty hard to convince North Korea, Iran, or
         | Russia to alter their munitions.
         | 
         | We can't even convince them not to throw bombs at other
         | countries.
         | 
         | War should be a thing of the past.
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Mines and cluster ammunition are horrifying. They are invisible
       | or look like toys even, and it is impractical to clean all of
       | them up. They're just waiting there, in the dirt, ready to kill
       | some innocent child. Horrible.
        
       | wkat4242 wrote:
       | Wow, so lucky there was no plane passing at that time.
        
       | Gazoche wrote:
       | I grew up in a South Pacific country that served as an advanced
       | American base during WW2. A few years ago a massive stockpile
       | (over a hundred) of artillery shells was found at the bottom of
       | the capital's port, right under the dock of a big ferry that
       | shuffles people between islands every day. I can't imagine the
       | carnage if one of those had gone off during the 70 years or so
       | they had been sitting there.
        
       | micromacrofoot wrote:
       | Every bomb, gun, and mine we make has impacts like this... AK47s
       | manufactured by the Soviet Union are still in circulation in
       | Africa and the Middle East, mines in Southeast Asia from the
       | Vietnam War still maim children decades later, cluster munitions
       | in Syria and Ukraine continue to cause civilian casualties long
       | after conflicts have subsided... weapons of war often outlive the
       | wars they were created for, perpetuating violence and suffering
       | for generations... yet we never learn.
        
       | icar wrote:
       | Another reminder of USA "democratisation" history.
        
       | aidog wrote:
       | Never thought my city would show up on hackernews like this, but
       | here we go. It's a nice surfer town without many tourists. My
       | website is on miyazakian.com
        
       | coding123 wrote:
       | Large? Maybe 3 yards of gravel 8 sticks of rebar and some drill
       | in pins to connect and 5 yards of Crete and they're good to go.
        
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